EP. 51 — Michelle Buteau

Jameela: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh, with Jameela Jamil. How are you? I’m fucking fucked. I am exhausted. My brain is exhausted. My body is exhausted. I’m fed up. I cannot handle the news cycle anymore. I cannot handle how long everything is taking to open up. I cannot handle the pressure of the world. And I just so much is happening in my personal life right now. Everything is just sort of like being uprooted and moved around. And this time is just increasingly stressful. Everyone is under so much pressure. It’s OK if you’re just not good vibes. You know, we’ve spoken about it before on this podcast. Dr. Deepak Chopra, this good vibes, only shit. Toxic, toxic nonsense. Nonsense, toxic bullshit. Sorry. I am I’m just having a day, I’m having it, I’m having a week, I’m having a year. And if you are as well, that is fine. That is fucking fine. Sometimes it’s just all too much. And you don’t have to blast positivity everyone around you. Sometimes it’s really liberating just to say, fuck it, just throw it all in the fucking bucket. So that’s where I am today. If you need to send me anything that is my P.O. box, fuck it bucket 90049. Anyway, I thankfully have a really chipper, happy, fun, energizing, excellent guest on today’s podcast. You’re not going to have to put up with this guy too much. I have invited the absolutely exceptional Michel Buteau on to this show. She is a stand up comedian. She is an actress, a podcast host, a TV host. She’s hysterical and super relatable, super open. And talk to me about so many things across the span of her life. She’s made it, quote unquote, you know, become internationally successful at a later time in life. And that’s given her space to live a real life before getting to where she’s at now. So often people who make it young in this industry, they suffer arrested development. I even me starting at 22. I feel like there’s so many things I didn’t get to do and get to experience that that hindered my growth as an adult, as a human. And so she’s lived this wild life and told me so many stories about her journey towards stand up all the different careers she’s had, being fat shamed by a teacher, you know, who told her that she was too fat to ever be in front of the camera. What is in front of the camera now and she’s killing it. You can watch her Netflix special Utopia. She’s in First Wives Club. She’s just a hysterical human being. We also talk a lot in depth about motherhood. And she gives the real mother, she’s not sitting here trying to coerce me into one day becoming a mother by telling me that it’s it’s just the best thing I’ll ever do. And I’m not saying it isn’t, but can we just not good vibes only parenthood as well, because I think it’s dangerous. So she’s very, very frank about that. She talks a lot about her surrogacy journey, which is incredibly interesting and so not spoken about enough. And I really, really, really feel so grateful to her for coming on and telling us so much about that journey about the whole ride of it, how you feel, what you fear, what it feels like. And obviously, these things are always individual experiences, but there’s just something so warm and easily relatable about Michelle. I just fell madly in love with her. I’d never met her before seeing her on this podcast. And she she just blew me away. She’s had an extraordinary ride. And so I hope that this episode makes you feel heard. I hope it makes you feel seen. I hope it makes you laugh because she’s funny as hell. And I hope that it motivates you to create your own path the way that she has done. That’s the thing that kind of runs throughout this entire podcast episode, the fact that she has this really firm sense of self. And it’s very inspiring because, you know, things have not always been easier for her in this industry, being a woman who is not, as you know, a size zero, also being a black woman in this industry in a time before recently where it was acceptable to allow black women into mainstream media, she’s had quite a quite a challenging environment to have to stay so sturdy throughout. And she talks me through that process. And I found it incredibly inspiring and it made me want to take more control of my life. And so I can’t wait to hear what you think about it. Please message me as you always do. I love receiving your messages and hearing what you think and how you feel and how these episodes maybe change your mind on certain things. This is the exceptional Michelle Buteau. [00:04:58][298.3]

Jameela: [00:05:16] Michelle Bloody Buteau, welcome to I Weigh. How are you? [00:05:19][3.2]

Michelle: [00:05:21] I’m good, Boo. How the fuck is you? [00:05:23][2.5]

Jameela: [00:05:24] I am all right. But then again, I don’t have twins in a pandemic. How are you? [00:05:29][4.7]

Michelle: [00:05:30] Look, look, I, I’m what a loaded question. How am I? [00:05:35][5.2]

Jameela: [00:05:37] I’m sorry to go so deep. [00:05:37][0.5]

Michelle: [00:05:40] You know, people always when they do that like elevator chit chat. How are you doing. Just fine. Fine, fine. Oh that line outside. Right. But now I’m just like how much time do you have because. Look, you know, just for me, I didn’t even know that sciatica was a real thing. [00:05:56][15.4]

Jameela: [00:05:57] What is that? What’s sciatica? [00:05:58][1.6]

Michelle: [00:05:59] Sciatica is like this muscle thing in your back that travels down your spine to your legs and it’s like cascading pain. And it’s it all stems from stress, and I just thought I was like a tired mom in her 40s, but then I realized sort of like when you I’m just getting into it now. [00:06:20][20.9]

Jameela: [00:06:20] Do it. [00:06:21][0.2]

Michelle: [00:06:22] You know how you grind your teeth. It’s sort of like that, but for your spine, which is real fun. [00:06:29][7.1]

Jameela: [00:06:29] You’re grinding your spine is what you’re telling me. [00:06:31][1.9]

Michelle: [00:06:32] Yes, yes, I’m grinding all of it. [00:06:35][2.4]

Jameela: [00:06:35] Fuck so are you just in pain all the time, or is this like a nighttime thing? Are you sleeping? [00:06:39][3.2]

Michelle: [00:06:41] Who knows, I’m just in a tunnel of what the fuck, so I don’t know what I’m doing, but I you know, I’m taking a lot of pictures and videos to document that we’re here. And sometimes I look back at them. I’m like, those were the days we had fun that time. So, yeah, I’m sleeping. But it mostly feels like I’m sleepwalking. [00:07:00][19.6]

Jameela: [00:07:02] Yeah. I mean, that’s being a mom. How old are your kids now? [00:07:04][2.4]

Michelle: [00:07:05] They’re two. [00:07:05][0.2]

Jameela: [00:07:06] Two years old fucking hell. You’ve done almost a year and a half of that in a pandemic. [00:07:11][5.4]

Michelle: [00:07:13] Half of their life has been in a pandemic. And, you know, it really just feels like a big city house on the Prairie, you know, we are just you know if you were to talk to me a year and a half ago I’m like organic everything, I’ll make applesauce and now I’m just like, do we go to Costco and do we have any more? Is it plastic? Sorry, Earth. Just trying to do it like I do. [00:07:36][23.2]

Jameela: [00:07:38] Are they too young for weed? [00:07:38][0.0]

Michelle: [00:07:41] The answer is yes. I found out the hard way. I’m just kidding don’t come for me everybody. But I’m not. I’m not. I’ve learned how to control that. So that’s nice. Or at least time it out properly. [00:07:51][10.6]

Jameela: [00:07:52] I’m excited for you. Fucking hell. So OK. So still married post pandemic. [00:07:58][6.2]

Michelle: [00:07:59] Yeah, we we don’t have a choice, there’s nowhere to go. [00:08:01][1.6]

Jameela: [00:08:06] And and and and you you know, you’re still here, you’re still smiling, still feeling good. I want to talk to you about a million things. I think you’re such a fascinating woman. You’ve had such an interesting and varied career. And I think before we get into talking about kids stuff, because there’s so much you have so much interesting and hilarious insight into the world of motherhood, that I as someone who has not had children, who doesn’t know if I want to have children, who becomes increasingly terrified with every year into my 30s of having children. I want to talk to you about all of that. But first, can we talk a bit about your career? So you are an actress. You are a writer. You are a stand up comedian. You you are now one of the more famous stand ups in the world. But you started fairly late in life for a woman, for a woman, perfectly normal for the Kevin Spaceys of this world. [00:09:04][58.1]

Michelle: [00:09:04] Oh, yes. Burned that house full of cars. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know if my story is common or uncommon. I mean, you know, I always wanted to sort of work in entertainment, but I didn’t know how I knew I wanted to be creative and that I had a good work ethic. [00:09:27][23.0]

Jameela: [00:09:28] I also read that you had a professor or a teacher at school who told you that you were too fat to be in front of the camera when you wanted to be like a TV host? [00:09:37][9.3]

Michelle: [00:09:38] Yeah, he he definitely told me that in front of the class. And I didn’t know what embarrassment was, but I remember looking back on it that my body felt hot from head to toe. But I was 18, 19. I didn’t you know, I was taught to respect my elders and not question authority. And I was still too shy to, you know, like I’m not like I wasn’t Amanda Seales back then. I’m still not Amanda Seales. You know what I mean. I’m not like excuse me sir you know. [00:10:04][25.5]

Jameela: [00:10:04] She comes up from this podcast quite a lot. People bring her up as an example of someone with tremendous strength and feist. And I think that’s really good. [00:10:14][9.8]

Michelle: [00:10:15] Look look I’m here for you. Everybody wants in Amanda in her corner, or at least like a dollop of that, you know, like Susanna Sugarbaker of Designing Women. I am aging myself. But, yeah, I was like, I just want to work in TV production. And I told me I want to be a journalist because we were going around saying what we want to do in this industry. He said I was too fat to be on camera, didn’t question him because the way I was raised also to his point, nobody looked like me. And if they did, it was like a thing. It was like Oprah and that was it. And it was like weight was everything, you know. [00:10:48][33.5]

Jameela: [00:10:49] Yeah, that was I like the dialogue around Oprah even at the time, like throughout her career, it was weight gain, weight loss. I used to lose weight. I used this to lose weight. It was just that was a big part of the narrative, obviously. Also so much tremendous, an amazing empowering work for people when it came to mental health or domestic violence. But there was so much weight loss talk, not just from her, but for the media about her. It was an obsession. [00:11:10][20.8]

Michelle: [00:11:12] It was. And I didn’t realize so much later in life that nobody was used to somebody just exposing themselves, especially when it came to trauma like that. And it was really powerful. It was like taking black the night. It was just like, wow, people talk about your family like, oh, you can’t say it, but I can. So what else you to say about me? Because I’m owning everything. I’m like, well, it’s fascinating, but I didn’t even think I was fat, you know, I just thought I was me. I look like all the other women in my family and more than half the women in Miami. And I just thought everybody was a thickums. You know,. [00:11:48][36.6]

Jameela: [00:11:50] It’s a great word. [00:11:50][0.3]

Michelle: [00:11:51] They were like thickums. You know, like meaty, you got the meat you know. You got the good piece of the rotisserie chicken. [00:11:59][7.8]

Jameela: [00:11:59] Yeah. [00:11:59][0.0]

Michelle: [00:12:00] And so I didn’t realize that there was like these definite boxes and categories, especially in Hollywood, where it’s like, are you going to be fat or skinny? Those are your choices. Are you going to be the character or the leading lady? Like that’s it. There’s no healthy medium in between is just like, you know what what part of the People magazine before after picture you’re going to represent? And so I didn’t even understand what he was saying and I didn’t see anyone like me. So I was like, OK, I guess I’ll just work in production, so. I was an editor and field producer for a long time, and I really got tired of just like editing basic people, beautiful people with no personality, spirit or even opinion. I’m like, what do you think? What do you think I should think? You know, it was like that coming to America, seeing where people are like, whatever you like. Yeah. And I’m like, why can’t we just have opinions and feel things and real conversations, even if it’s a four minute segment. Can you not be real in four minutes? [00:13:04][63.5]

Jameela: [00:13:04] I’m still a little bit upset about the teacher. I’m still I’m still a little bit upset because I know that that happens all the time. It’s happened to me. It’s happened to so many of my friends that these figures of authority can just say this one sentence. I can just change someone’s trajectory. You found your way back to the light or to the the limelight or, you know, center stage where you belong. But most people don’t. Most people take that as a oh, OK. Right. Well, I’ve been told that’s not for me, so I don’t want to humiliate myself by now defying this advice and trying to go up for it. I’ve been like my hope has been taken away because the best you have hope and a prayer that you’re going to be successful, whatever it is that you want. And so if someone just removes that, like, fragment of hope in the first place, then what the fuck are you going to do how are you supposed to carry on? Not everyone is as sturdy. [00:14:01][56.7]

Michelle: [00:14:03] Yeah, I know I look, especially in this industry and life in general is full of rejection and it’s full of so much rejection as some people don’t even need a someone in authority, someone who is in a position of power to tell them that they’re not even good enough. They’ll just automatically believe it and they’ll be their narrative before even somebody says it, you know? Like I always say, my most talented friends are just in their corner second guessing themselves and like the basic bitches are just out there super confident. You know, hiring someone like that is sort of like the lead singer that can sing and then, like all their backup dancers are singers are amazing. Like, how did that even happen? And it’s just like, you know, I’m just like a big fan of faking it til you make it because if you can at least pretend to be the version of yourself that you always wanted to be, then at some point you’ll start being that person. But, yeah, I mean, I, I’m glad he said it. And I’m also just like, fuck him because where could I have been in life? Who knows. But I do appreciate a slow summer and having all the tools in my arsenal to back up whatever I need in any situation, you know, all the time because I feel like there’s nothing you can’t put me on. I can go anywhere is what I’m trying to say, because I feel like I’ve seen it all. [00:15:31][88.0]

Jameela: [00:15:31] Yeah. And and you you and I, when we were talking earlier, we were talking about the fact that even though maybe that set you off course for a while and you started editing and I also read that you were editing footage of 9/11, which was so traumatic for you, just so, you know, hours and hours and hours of the worst possible footage on Earth. But, you know, even though it pushed you off course, you you found your way back at an age where you were probably more stable and able to handle this industry because it’s a fuck it’s a lot. It’s a lot. And I’m really glad that when I got to America, I was in my 30s, like when when when things kicked off for me the way that they have. And I’m no no Bieber. I don’t know if you noticed I’m not Justin Bieber, but without even even this is a lot to manage. I don’t know how these kids cope with that kind of level of success, but there’s a part of you feel like, oh, you know what? This is all come around at the right time. And I have actually had a chance to live, had a chance to make a lot of my, you know, sort of big decisions or big mistakes in privacy. And now that I have this big profile, I’m a real grown up. [00:16:44][72.9]

Michelle: [00:16:46] I mean, shit. Do I have a big profile? [00:16:47][1.8]

Jameela: [00:16:48] Yeah. [00:16:48][0.0]

Michelle: [00:16:50] OK. [00:16:50][0.0]

Jameela: [00:16:50] You’re coming up. You’re coming up in this bitch. [00:16:54][4.6]

Michelle: [00:16:57] OK, I’m coming up in this bitch. I’ll take it. [00:17:00][3.0]

Jameela: [00:17:00] What’s your experience been like in your years of the industry? You kind of started stand up not long after 9/11, and that was kind of your first entry into that world. So it’s been a minute now. How’s it been for you? [00:17:14][14.0]

Michelle: [00:17:17] I feel like I feel like I have been entertained and frustrated at the same time, like, there’s always this level of like frustration that happens, you know what I mean, where it’s like, oh, these comedy clubs are putting these people up or these women up or I have to take this bitch spot or you know why? [00:17:39][22.5]

Jameela: [00:17:40] What do you mean? I had to take this bitch? As in like you. You’re going to have to compete with someone. What does that mean? [00:17:46][5.9]

Michelle: [00:17:47] Comedy sort of just like being a black person in a sitcom. There’s only room for one. And again, it just goes back to like the of standards of everybody of them pitting us against each other, you know, so for. And it’s changed a lot now. But when I started, it was the one female on the show. And every time somebody introduced you, it’s like we’re going to change it up. It’s gonna be really different. It’s a woman. It’s like bitch you know I’m a woman just say my name. And so, you know, even auditioning for shows, it’s like when they say open ethnicity, you’re like, OK, so that you’re just assuming everyone’s white and we’re just like, you know, the ethnic Fran OK. And then you roll up and you see, like all different types of nationalities, you’re like, I don’t know what neighborhood this is going to be. But we about to find out. And then there’s like the black girl auditions where that just feels like Oprah’s book club and everyone’s like in a prayer circle exchanging recipes. And that’s really fun too. Just to see people. But there’s always this thing that happens no matter what, especially in black girl auditions, where it’s just like if one of us makes it, all of us makes it because our brown titties are some sort of like proven concepts like, well, that one’s funny. This one’s funny, like, I think. [00:19:05][77.4]

Jameela: [00:19:05] Monolithic brown titties. [00:19:06][0.9]

Michelle: [00:19:07] It is now. But I think the industry is finally realizing, especially after a year of quarantine and white guilt after BLM, that we are different. We are different people. We’re not all from the same family reunion with the t shirts in Tennessee. Thank you very much. [00:19:26][18.3]

Jameela: [00:19:27] I actually wanted to ask you about the black girl auditions, about the roles that black women have often been allowed to play. And then a further layer of if you are a curvaceous black woman, always hyper hypersexual or hyper aggressive, there is a kind of a stereotype that we watched throughout the last twenty years of Hollywood, of of of where where it’s a predominantly white production and with white stars. And that the token I sure as shit feel this way with South Asians, where we play a very firm stereotype of the cab driver, the pharmacist, never the love interest. No one’s ever having sex with us. We’re never getting fucked on camera ever or off camera because of the stereotypes of on camera. [00:20:13][46.0]

Michelle: [00:20:14] And if you are it’s like you’re a fetish. [00:20:15][0.9]

Jameela: [00:20:15] Yeah exactly. So so what has been the trajectory of the roles you’ve read? Do you feel as though when back in the day you were first auditioning? It was very much so one kind of thing they were looking for one note. [00:20:27][11.5]

Michelle: [00:20:28] Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean,. [00:20:29][1.8]

Jameela: [00:20:29] What was that note? [00:20:30][0.5]

Michelle: [00:20:31] Oh, it was the sassy tell it like it is black girl, and they wouldn’t even say black girl after a while or African-American, they just say really sure of herself, tell it like it is. And I would get that note, too sometimes it’s like you could sass it up if you want. It’s like, no, this is where this is where I’m at this where she’s at, you know what I mean? And I always and thank god for comedy because it’s really saved me in so many situations, maybe every situation. I’m just like, this is what’s funny. This is what’s funny to me. This is how I feel like she would say it. This is how I would say it, you know. I don’t know what to tell you, because, again, I don’t fall into the category of let’s put a crop top on her and like fetishize her, I’m the I am the best friend at brunch where you’re going to tell me about the night you’ve had, I’d belike. Uh uh girl, really? So that’s like sort of the stuff I used to go out for and I think now more than ever, you know, because we can control the narrative a bit more, we can create our own shit. There’s just a lot more outlets for us to sort of drop our work on, that you know, it’s like do you. [00:21:50][79.0]

Jameela: [00:21:51] I was wondering, how do you feel like considering how it started with you being told to not even bother because of your size to now being in a business that scrutinizes women so intensely and constantly. How do you feel? [00:22:03][12.0]

Michelle: [00:22:03] Isn’t that fucking wild? I mean, I even I don’t think I’ll ever not be struggling with my weight. That has just been me since the fifth grade. I remember my cousin was telling me, like, you were the only 10 year old I knew, like doing Slim Fast and push ups and sit ups. And I’m like I did didn’t even remember that. And that’s why I wrote the book Survival of the Thickest is because it’s just like what happens if you just love on yourself, whatever she looks like. Like what happens if you just fucking love on yourself and try to ignore everybody and just try to be the most healthiest version of yourself. So for me, having a mom who is teeny, tiny, petite with big titties and a dad who is always in shape, even at 81, he exercises every day and they’re very health conscious. [00:22:52][49.2]

Jameela: [00:22:53] That’s annoying. That’s a little bit annoying. I’m a little bit annoyed with your dad. [00:22:59][5.7]

Michelle: [00:23:04] I know he’s got his little weights and stone sometimes he does squats too much too far it’s like so adorable. But for me it’s inspiring to be like OK, like look I still want these knees to work so I can pick up grandchildren and stuff. So, like, you know, it hasn’t ever been about being a size that the industry approves, it’s about being healthy. And so, like always, by the time I entered stand up, the reason why I got into stand up actually is because, well, people tell me I should do standup cos I’m funny I’m just like what but I like making money and stand ups feel broke. And then I also got into standup, I believe, because it didn’t matter what I look like. You know, we’re sort of like the dark horse of the industry where it’s just like you can you know, be a freak and a geek, and that’s OK. And then when I started auditioning for TV stuff, I was like, oh well this is different. But I had edited and produced so many journalists who were always beating themselves up, who were just like, oh, three bites of mac and cheese, I got to go run this off. And I was like, I don’t ever want to put that on myself. I’ve done it in high school and college. And it’s like, why didn’t I enjoy my fucking birthday cake looking at these pictures? That’s crazy, you know. [00:24:27][83.2]

Jameela: [00:24:27] Yeah. [00:24:27][0.0]

Michelle: [00:24:28] And I feel like I’m a happy person. I want to be happy, like I love complaining about shit, but I’m happy. So I’m like, why am I denying myself that? Especially if I’m funnier than this bitch like just stop. [00:24:41][12.7]

Jameela: [00:24:42] I remember snapping on my I think maybe like my 19th birthday party, I denied myself a birthday cake since I was 12 and I wouldn’t even I wouldn’t touch it. I was so, so scared of food by that age. And I was like, similarly to you, like doing sit ups and drinking Slim Fast and doing all that different shit when I was a child, like, yeah, the cup of soup. Which is basically just like piss with leaves in it. And it was like, on, my 19th birthday. I remember like my mother got me my my favorite cake, which is strawberries and cream cake, gluten free. If anyone out there wants to send me any of this, just letting you know. Anyway, I said she gets me this, this giant cake and she she cuts it into little pieces so I can go and give it over to the people who work at my video store where I used to work out where all my friends were. And so I was like, OK, and so she puts it, each like slice in individual foil wrapping. And she she has put everyone’s name on it and puts it all in a bag and I take it in the bag. And I, I march down towards the video store and she’s watching out the window because the video store is opposite the road from her bedroom and then there’s a tree. There’s a tree that you have to get past to get to the video store, and once I passed that tree, I’m no longer in her sight, I decide maybe I won’t go into the video store today, maybe I won’t share this cake with anybody. Maybe I’ll just keep walking past the tree. Maybe I’ll walk down to the nearest cemetery. Maybe I’ll go sit in that cemetery by myself for my birthday at 19 and ate the entire fucking cake, piece by piece by piece, a giant 24 inch cake. [00:26:31][109.3]

Michelle: [00:26:33] And you just like unwrapped it individually like. [00:26:33][0.1]

Jameela: [00:26:33] One by one by one. [00:26:36][2.4]

Michelle: [00:26:36] A new package of prosciutto. [00:26:37][0.8]

Jameela: [00:26:39] 100% Yep. Folded a lick it, fold it up. Start on the next. Don’t even know why I’m telling you this story and just you brought up birthday cake and it reminded me of something. [00:26:45][5.9]

Michelle: [00:26:45] It’s true. It’s a thing it’s a thing. [00:26:45][0.0]

Jameela: [00:26:58] I even have an issue with not an issue with you saying you can say whatever the fuck you like you’re Michelle fucking Buteau, but the term struggling with your weight, I think is such a problematic sentence for us to have in our heads of like it’s been it’s been normalized as a sentence. That means that we’re in this push and pull, are we in this push and pull with our bodies really? Are we also in this push and pull with what society told us to do with our bodies and then how that fucked up metabolisms and how it also fucked our idea of what it’s health, what is good? It’s just it’s just a thing that I want us all to be aware of when we use the terminology. [00:27:38][39.2]

Michelle: [00:27:39] You brought up a really, you bring up a really good point, because I remember even at Thanksgiving, I had an aunt who would when I would go back for another piece of pie, would just like grab my gut. So many people in my life have grabbed my gut, my back fat and my chin like, are you sure you want to? Even up until a year ago, I was filming a travel show and I guess he was a show runner, I’m not sure who he was, but he grabbed my chin he goes what are we going to do about this? [00:28:07][28.1]

Jameela: [00:28:08] Oh. Are you fucking kidding me? [00:28:10][2.6]

Michelle: [00:28:11] I’m not, I’m not. He got fired because I because it was like a female-led show and he was like one of three guys and I’m the host. And so I’m just like I said, it might cut your dick off and feed it to you because how dare you and then you get to touch this chin. So, like, struggle also is under the umbrella of me always struggle with other people. [00:28:36][25.2]

Jameela: [00:28:37] I can’t believe I put their hands on you. In 2020. One thing is aunts and uncles, like when we’re kids, they’re going to this is just you and I both come from ethnic minority families where people just feel like they have fuckin ownership over it, like we are all just one. Our DNA is the same. Therefore we’re entitled to each other. I don’t agree with that, but that is just the thing. But a fucking in 2020, a producer grabbed your double chin and said, what are we going to do about this? [00:29:02][25.8]

Michelle: [00:29:03] Yes. Yes. And I was like, and it was so. It was like one of those things that happened fast and slow at the same time, like an emotional car wreck. And so I’m I am so used to it, especially big hair, freckles, friendly people feel like they know you after a couple of days. Where I’m just like, absolutely not. So for me, I’m not going to even have the conversation with them. You’re going to get fired and then you’re going to double tap the next job that I do. And that sort of drives me to where I’m just like, oh, you think I need to do this in order to have that? No. Like, I’m going to do this no matter what the way I want to do it, the way I see fit. So. Under the word struggle comes that too where it constantly feels like I’m struggling with people who are just like, what are we going to do about it? It’s just like this. Bitch, you already got the job. What do you mean, what are we going to do about it? Like, you know, move on. And so what again what I really like about comedy, which which saves me is like comedy. There’s this thing with acting and hosting where it’s it’s like but are they fuckable? Do people want to aspire to be them? You know what I mean but with comedy. Most of the time, at least, is are they funny or not, and I know I’m funny, so I trust in that and that’s why, you know, you have to know your power and your worth, which is the only things I will be telling my kids on the first day of daycare. [00:30:40][96.5]

Jameela: [00:30:40] You’ve brought that philosophy into your on screen work of like it is not important. It is not important if I am deemed fuckable or not. You’re also fucking gorgeous, by the way, and I’m not going to sexually harass you on my own I Weigh podcast. But just sayin. But also, I think it’s great that you have been able to bring that like the am I funny? I think that was a big decision for me in America right after spending so many years being told by TV producers like you’re not funny, you know, you’re not going to we don’t need to hear you talk like we need to see the way that you look and like you’re a fashion girl and everyone wants to see you in the short skirts and like girls want to be you girls want to look like you. And I was denied the chance to even try to be funny or to try and do the comedy bits. Anyway, I am I am thrilled to see that you are continuing to find peace and your own place and your own way of doing things. I love that you got that show runner fired. I think that that’s great. That galvanizes me to do the same the same thing when people body shame me. [00:31:40][60.1]

Michelle: [00:31:41] Yeah, yeah. We’re good people and we’re good people. We’re talented. We’re easy to work with. So why would anyone ever try to bring something up? to make us feel bad. Then you’re you’re just toxic. You know, we want to create and we should all be wanting to create positive work environments where everybody wants to be their best and do their best and inspire other people to do the same. And that’s how we all get on board and create amazing content. And, you know, I’ve always been attracted to those types of sets. And, you know, one of my favorite things I worked on was Always Be My Maybe with Ali Wong and Randall Park and Nahnatchka Khan, who directed it because they all felt this need to sort of represent Asian men in a different light, you know, and and when and when Ali is just like every guy that I’m attracted to in this movie will be Asian because you don’t see that. And I’m like, yes, bitch. And so just even. You know, and it seems like a little thing to say or for some people, but it really makes such a difference. Diversity is fucking everything. [00:33:05][83.8]

Jameela: [00:33:06] Yeah, 100 percent. Well, I’d love your contribution. I also love that film and the comeback of Keanu. Thank you. Thank you from all women around the world. And can we talk about being a mom? Because you’re a mum and you have been so hilarious and vocal about it in the past and on stage. And I’m just so, so curious. Would you find that terribly boring or would you would you mind talking to me about it? [00:33:32][26.5]

Michelle: [00:33:32] Oh, my God, no, I would love to. [00:33:34][1.5]

Jameela: [00:33:34] So first of all, you had a less traditional journey to motherhood in that you took the path of surrogacy. And that subject has come up a few times on this podcast the last year. And whenever it does, we kind of just touch on it. And I get this huge influx of of women or people who are writing to me about it, especially LGBTQ couples who want to understand more about surrogacy. And and I think, you know, it’s still a very stigmatized subject that we don’t talk about a lot. And so therefore, there isn’t a lot of information and therefore people feel embarrassed to even ask or don’t know where to look. And so could you tell me a bit about your surrogacy journey? [00:34:13][39.1]

Michelle: [00:34:15] Sure. You know, I didn’t know that much about surrogacy either until I had to. And I said that I had to because my desire was so strong to become a mom. I knew that these souls were floating out there. I just had to meet them. And I’m so glad I finally did. So I did five years of IVF because I have a benign mass of my brain that causes my body to think it’s pregnant. So I was like a science project for a couple of years trying to get levels right. [00:34:50][35.0]

Jameela: [00:34:51] That’s got a name. It’s Prolacta. [00:34:52][1.6]

Michelle: [00:34:54] Yeah, prolactinoma. [00:34:54][0.4]

Jameela: [00:34:54] Prolactinoma, that’s it. And it convinces your body. So you have symptoms of pregnancy. Right. But you’re not pregnant. [00:35:00][5.7]

Michelle: [00:35:01] You do, which is real fun. So it’s just like a lot of headful weight gain. Yeah. Hormonal nonsense and no baby. So that was a mindfuck for sure. Comedy saved me for sure. You know, my husband be like, are you OK? Do you have to go to L.A.? Do you have to go to Ohio? You have to do this. You have to do that. And I’m like, I need a sense of normalcy and this feels good. And that’s actually when I started really booking stuff because I didn’t give a fuck and I started crying at the end of, like, every audition or show that I did. I’m like, you guys are enough, you know? And it was just like this weird place of like just saying, whatever I want, I’m like, I’m going to improv take. And then cry, laugh at the same time. Oh, it was a I remember. [00:35:46][44.6]

Jameela: [00:35:46] Is this because you were pumped full of hormones? Is that why? [00:35:48][2.1]

Michelle: [00:35:48] Yes, I was pumped full of hormones. And plus my body already thought it was pregnant. So we were messy but. [00:35:56][7.3]

Jameela: [00:35:56] And you’re shagging all the time. Right. During the. Are you shagging all the time or are you not shagging all the time. There are cycles of shagging. [00:36:04][7.5]

Michelle: [00:36:05] Yeah. You have to figure out like the right time. But it’s not even about the shagging, really, it’s about it’s about because at some point, like they take his DNA and mix it with mine and then put it back in me,. [00:36:23][18.0]

Jameela: [00:36:23] Got it. [00:36:23][0.3]

Michelle: [00:36:25] So there is that level of IVF where you can try and do it. I think it’s IUI actually actually I think IUI still looks like a turkey baster but the point is you have options. But essentially, it didn’t work out, I think it was four miscarriages in five years and I was just done and my husband was like really tired of picking me up off the floor. And he’s like, I really miss my wife and I miss myself, too. I mean, I was bloated and sad and still had this weird fight in me to keep going, but I just didn’t know what direction to go into, sort of like that horror movie where the girls running through the forest, she’s like, where is that a light? You’re just like, where is that the way? And so when my doctor introduced surrogacy to me, I didn’t know anything about it. I was still sad. Still grieving. The whole chapter of just like I guess this won’t happen for me, and then a flood of emotions comes up with surrogacy as well, which is like, um, who’s this person going to be? It’s still all the same anxiety. But now just you’re just like way more out of control. But then my friend Jordan Carlos always reminds me that sometimes there could be a happy ending and sometimes there is, so I held on to that a lot. So for surrogacy. [00:37:56][91.2]

Jameela: [00:37:57] And it’s also like a shame that comes for some women with surrogacy of, oh, my body couldn’t do this. [00:38:02][4.7]

Michelle: [00:38:04] Yeah, I yeah. I was kind of. Already over that hump of shame, because being Caribbean and then going through IVF, it’s very like what’s wrong with you? So the fact that they even had to go to some sort of alternative, go through some alternative method, it was just like maybe you should lose weight. My favorite. I’m like, are you a doctor? Maybe you shouldn’t work as much like all these people had all these opinions except for the doctor who just had facts. So how about everybody back the fuck up. Thank you so much. You know, like, I’m not talking to my uncles about all their. [00:38:39][35.4]

Jameela: [00:38:41] Dick stuff. [00:38:41][0.3]

Michelle: [00:38:42] Yeah. All their children that they have that they’re not paying for. So anyway, Im not bringing it up at all so why you bringing up my shit. So the surrogacy of it all was like fucking fascinating because as I learned more about it I realize that there are these women who are surrogates and surrogacy agencies who agents who are probably like either a first time surrogate or fifth time surrogate or someone that needed a surrogate a long time ago, and they just decide to work in this field to protect people because obviously people can get greedy and things can happen and stuff can go wrong. But I realize that these surrogates really find being pregnant, euphoric, they can do it quite naturally. They want nothing more than to help someone with their family. People can’t understand it because it is a good thing, and they’re just sort of like these walking angels on Earth, and so once they start to wrap my mind around it, I’m like, OK, maybe this is the thing. But what sucked is that at the time, surrogacy was not legal in New York. It was only legal in I think seven to 10 states and the closest state was Pennsylvania. So I at the time felt like my body failed me. Health insurance failed me because everything was out of pocket, because God forbid, if you’re a woman and need help getting pregnant. [00:40:20][97.9]

Jameela: [00:40:20] You’ve described being female as a preexisting condition before, which I think is fucking hysterical. [00:40:26][5.8]

Michelle: [00:40:27] It’s true. It’s just like if you have opinions, and a hole between your legs, it’s like, how dare you, let’s control you by at any costs. So, yeah, I felt like my state had also failed me, you know, I’m like in New York where, you know, we think we are progressive, but look at this shit. You know, surrogacy is not legal unless you’re related to the person. And my cousins are useless. So we would my husband and I would that’s OK. They don’t even know how to work the Internet. They’ll never listen thia. [00:41:06][39.7]

Jameela: [00:41:11] So look I also know that there’s a lot of misinformation out there about surrogacy and that made people really afraid and a lot of people felt like it was exploitative. I personally know a lot of people who have been surrogates who would just like moms who have two or three kids they don’t want any more, but they love being pregnant and they could do with the money or they want to give the gift of motherhood to someone else because they’re obsessed with motherhood. I know plenty of people who do it and any industry has the power to become exploitative. And I think it’s just on all of us to make sure that we keep those angelic human beings as safe as possible. [00:41:47][36.6]

Michelle: [00:41:49] I agree. I went on Wendy Williams a year ago to promote something. And Andy Cohen saw my interview and he reached out to me and he’s like, look, I’ve been stomping for surrogacy, gestational surrogacy to get passed in New York for over a year now. It’s in the budget, but it keeps coming up as like it’s a gay issue. It’s a rich person’s issue. And I’ve heard all those things, too, because people have fucking opinions. So he asked me if I would go lobby with him in Albany, and I did. And it was. Fascinating. It was. I mean, my heart broke and was mended like maybe 16 times in that one day. The stories of these people that would stop at nothing to just have a family. Was. I mean, there’s really no word for it, I mean, I think one woman had like 10 miscarriages and finally found her person, her surrogate. Another woman shared a story about how her surrogate in Utah gave birth to their son like a couple of months earlier, and he was stillborn. And because they were so far away and they were in New Jersey and. The surrogate was in Utah, like they never got a chance to say to meet their, it was just so there was so and it wasn’t. It was everybody. It wasn’t just rich people, I mean it everything in America feels like it’s supposed to be a luxury when it should be a right. You know, like the way my friends are talking about vaccines, it’s like prohibition is like, no, we should all have access to a vaccine if we want one. But that’s a whole other story for another time. But I remember this woman. She was in her late twenties, maybe early thirties. She was a breast cancer survivor. She had collected some eggs and her mission was to be the first the first woman to have a baby through surrogacy in New York. And I really hope that happens for her. Because they just made it legal, which is amazing, but the stories were just I mean, I don’t think I’ve cried that much, not even watching A Star Is Born by myself on a plane. [00:44:10][140.9]

Jameela: [00:44:15] I actually now have that visual, um, I, I think that I think that’s amazing that you are that you a) were able to be able to do that, but B, that you talk about it so openly and publicly because it’s the only way to destigmatize it both for the people who need surrogates and for the surrogates themselves, who sometimes also get judged and treated as though they don’t know what they’re doing. And a lot of them do. And a lot of them find so much purpose and love in it. I’ve got a best friend who is desperate to be a surrogate because she has very, very severe ADHD, severe severe ADHD, and she can’t take medication for it because the medication is quite speedy. And it it creates like other mental health symptoms for her. So when she’s pregnant, the entire time she’s pregnant and for six months after the pregnancy, for some reason, her brain just takes her ADHD away and she’s able because your brain your body knows you need to focus on this one massive task. So she’s just got a silent mind and she’s able to work and able to, like, leave the house and concentrate and live properly. So she fucking loves it. She’d be pregnant all the time if she could. But she also doesn’t have the money or space in her house or desire. To keep all of those children and raise all of those children. And so there are there are plenty of different reasons. And so how has the journey of surrogacy now been now that you’ve done it? I know that you’re close with your surrogate and you send her pictures and thank her all the time for being an angel. [00:45:42][87.9]

Michelle: [00:45:43] Yeah, yeah. You know, you get to sort of decide how much you want to be involved or not with your surrogate, because for me, I believe in chosen family, extended family. These people are in your lives for a reason. You know, you might be close to them this one year than the next or ten years later, whatever it is. But it’s like it’s it never it’s never going to end. It’s never going to not be a conversation, because even walking out with the twins, people want to know how my pregnancy was on a plane and I’m just like, expensive. Do you have time? You know, so there is always that or I’m a twin. How did it go? Or, you know, I’m going to have to have the conversation, the conversation with them when they’re older about surrogacy. And I remember the agent was like, take a lot of pictures of you and your surrogate together, especially when her belly pops, because daughters for some reason always want to see what their mom look like when they were pregnant. And, you know. I was sad about it. For maybe 10 minutes, and then I was like, I’m so I have to keep reminding myself, I’m so glad they’re going to be here. I’m so glad they’re here. You know what I mean? I’m so glad we’re here together. So, you know, I think it’s really easy to get caught up in the why not me? But it’s so much more beautiful to get caught up in the wow. I’m so overwhelmed because I have all this really cool kid stuff to do. [00:47:17][94.5]

Jameela: [00:47:18] Was bonding difficult? [00:47:19][1.3]

Michelle: [00:47:21] With? [00:47:21][0.0]

Jameela: [00:47:21] With your twins, so it was it was it difficult to bond when you haven’t been growing them inside of you? [00:47:27][6.0]

Michelle: [00:47:29] For me, no. What was difficult for me because they were twins was and I and I want to say a lot of perhaps people with twins or even newborns. You feel like you need. You feel like you want to bond more with them, but it’s just a lot, you’re just. They’re just working like a crazy shift at McDonalds. You know what I mean, they’re like hamburgers is like getting fat, get him change to get them away from the bar. So you feel like you’re just doing a bunch of shit. [00:48:01][31.9]

Jameela: [00:48:01] You’re a PA. [00:48:02][0.4]

Michelle: [00:48:02] Yes. And then when they smile at you, you are like look like you are like do something or whatever, then it’s just like, oh shit. But that was my experience. But the minute I held them, I just folded like not a fitted sheet, the top one, because that’s easier to fold. I was like, yeah, but I mean, that’s what I love easily. Like if I see a baby and someone’s like doing something rough in front of it or like just you’re like dancing or backing out like I’m that bitch. I’m just like back up. Like I would be that bitch in college or in my 20s at a club when obviously some guy was just like too rough with the girls. It’s like I want to dance. And she’s like I said, no, I was like, come on, let’s dance. I’m like, the woman said, no, it’s just like a big titty super man. [00:48:52][50.6]

Jameela: [00:48:54] Big titty Liam Neeson, I think that’s fucking great. But you’ve been very open about motherhood in a way that I find really fucking refreshing and I watch a lot of your stuff on it and I find you very, very funny and charming, obviously. But I also find you a breath of fresh air because you speak about it in such a real way. And I feel as though because I’m in my 30s now, I’m getting so much pressure from friends of mine. Also, I just want to bring up something that you spoke about that was really interesting about during the journey to trying to get pregnant. You had to distance yourself for a while from your friends who are being able to get pregnant. You’ve spoken about that before and that that’s OK. And that if you need to do that just to protect your brain, you’re not a bad person. But it was heartbreaking reading the fact that when you would get pregnant at the same time as a friend and you would miscarry and they wouldn’t, you would always have that thing in your mind when you would see their child of like, oh, mine would have been that age. And so you just had to step back. [00:50:02][67.6]

Michelle: [00:50:03] Yeah. That never I don’t think that will ever go away. You know, everyone is different, but for me, a miscarriage just feels like. You’re always reminded, you know, you’re like, oh, they would have been 18, although it was 16. They would have been doing this just like. There’s still a piece of you that for whatever reason. [00:50:25][22.3]

Jameela: [00:50:25] It wasn’t the right time. [00:50:28][2.6]

Michelle: [00:50:29] Yeah, but I think, again, like I have this platform, I could talk to you to talk to people, all right? I have all these friends. I have all these family members. I still felt really lonely, really great partner who’s down to talk about anything at any time. Still felt really lonely if I feel if I felt lonely, I’m just like, how the fuck are other people feeling that don’t even have this platform or this, like. [00:50:52][23.2]

Jameela: [00:50:53] Access. [00:50:53][0.0]

Michelle: [00:50:53] Lifestyle. We are meant to feel guilty if we are trying to have a kid and it’s not happening. We’re meant to feel guilty if we don’t ever want a kid. I mean, there are so many different reasons as a woman why we can beat ourselves up. But what we need to do is just give ourselves more permission to feel whatever the fuck we want to feel. And for me, I just. I’m a person who likes to be happy for people, and at that moment I was like, I can’t look at you and your pregnant belly and all these like ironic pregnancy photo shoots you’re doing is just really too much for me. Even walking down the aisle at Target. Um, with the baby stuff, I was like. I can’t do this. And it really helps, it really helped and I had friends who are still reaching out, who are mad at me, they’re like, how come I had to find out you had kids over Instagram? And I’m like, well, that’s the type of friend you are now bye. [00:51:51][58.0]

Jameela: [00:51:54] Oof. Fair enough. I’m very I’m very protective of my own mental health, so I have I just rarely ever hear anyone else exhibit similar self-preservation. I don’t want to use the word ruthlessness. I think it’s self-preservation. I think that’s really important. So so, you know, you are a realist and you talk a lot about having kids. And what I was trying to say before I took that tangent was just that a lot of people are pressuring me to have kids and a lot of those people have kids already. And they’re just like, it’s the best thing you’re ever going to do. And I and and fine, maybe it’s the best thing. [00:52:29][35.4]

Michelle: [00:52:30] No they want to be miserable with you. [00:52:31][0.6]

Jameela: [00:52:32] But that’s just it. That’s what my suspicion is. This is what I want to fucking talk to you about. [00:52:36][4.4]

Michelle: [00:52:37] That’s not true, that’s not true. [00:52:37][0.7]

Jameela: [00:52:38] Because I feel like you were one of the first times I heard someone realistically break this shit down of what the real life is like what annoys you and how you used to be judge-y. You’re not judge-y anymore. I really want you to break down the reality of it so at least we can have the fucking choice to know what we’re really stepping into because I am sick of the fucking trailer of it’s the best thing you’ll ever do. And they put on the platform and they put on the performance of how it’s the most amazing thing ever. And I’m sure it is. [00:53:06][28.0]

Michelle: [00:53:06] It’s not. [00:53:06][-0.0]

Jameela: [00:53:06] I’m not dissing parenthood, but also I’d like to know the fucking nitty gritty of what I would be getting myself into, because babies are not just for Christmas,. [00:53:16][9.9]

Michelle: [00:53:18] They’re not they’re just birthdays. Like, look, it is I it took me so long to have these babies. I love them. But now I understand why people don’t want kids, because I’m like, oh, it’s a it’s not even full time it’s beyond full time. [00:53:34][16.2]

Jameela: [00:53:35] It’s over time. [00:53:36][0.1]

Michelle: [00:53:36] And it is beyond over time and plus it changes everything and obviously, you know. I feel whole, but I am also exhausted in a way that I’ve never been exhausted before and also anxious because I’m just like, oh, I thought the worry was going to end when they were here. But now it’s like I worry about how people treat them. How are they going to treat themselves? How are they going to deal with it when I’m not around? How am I going to deal with it with it when I am around? Also, there’s so many different relationships that have just happened. My relationship has changed with my husband. We don’t have a lot of time for each other. So the time that we do have, we have to make it count. But a lot of times we’re tired in those times it’s also quarantine. I have a relationship with these two kids. They have a relationship with me. I have a relationship with them individually, as they do with their with their father. That’s a lot of shit that no one ever tells you. Also, it’s not about you anymore. It doesn’t even matter if it was your body that made them. It doesn’t even matter if there are related to you or not or if you adopted them, ok? They’re your responsibility, whole responsibility, forever and ever in all of time. You have to teach them all the things. And if you’re in your 40s like me and now you realize with sciatica is like, huh,. [00:54:45][69.0]

Jameela: [00:54:45] What are the biggest surprises about motherhood? Like the biggest things that I just I want to warn my community out there. Okay, we need warnings. [00:54:53][8.1]

Michelle: [00:54:54] You think you’re going to be bad at it all the time, like like you’re like when do I start enjoying this? But then you just feel like you’re bad at it all the time and then people make you feel like you’re bad and all the time. [00:55:07][13.4]

Jameela: [00:55:07] Which people like, people like mommy shaming websites or just other moms. [00:55:11][3.9]

Michelle: [00:55:12] Mommy shaming situations. [00:55:13][1.1]

Jameela: [00:55:15] In person or online? [00:55:16][1.2]

Michelle: [00:55:18] I don’t really do in person anymore. [00:55:19][1.2]

Jameela: [00:55:20] That’s fair,. [00:55:21][0.3]

Michelle: [00:55:22] You know, because of the covid of it all. But, you know, I’m going to I just enrolled these kids to daycare. And so that’ll be interesting because now we’re sort of going public with our relationship. So we’ll see how the public takes us. But I don’t know if I’m doing it right. Like, we’ll see, you know, they’re two. And they still share clothes. I don’t know. [00:55:47][25.7]

Jameela: [00:55:48] That will happen for a long time. What are some other surprises? What are some of what’s like your your reporting back for us. Okay, Michelle, for those of us who want to know you’ve gone to the other side, what do you know? What do you fucking know? [00:56:03][14.7]

Michelle: [00:56:05] I know that it’s definitely made me. It it’s made me appreciate not just my parents, but all people, especially especially people who have, like, left their kids. Listen, give me a minute. To stay and take care of this thing that needs you all the time, this beautiful being is like, where’s our trophy? But I also understand why people are like, I can’t do this. And you have to be a strong willed person to just sort of like sit through the tears, the I hate you, the I just spent my last dollar on you so you could eat and still say I love you no matter what, that’s I mean, it’s not for the faint of heart at all. And it feels and if you have that desire that you know, that deep down love to definitely. [00:57:09][63.6]

Jameela: [00:57:10] Devote yourself. [00:57:10][0.4]

Michelle: [00:57:11] Yes. Then yes, if you’re overthinking it and thinking like, I don’t know if I could do that, how am I going to do that? Does that mean you’re, like, more pragmatic? Then you’re probably going to be really good at it, too, because no one even thinks that far ahead. They’re just like, I want to see my face in someone else’s face and or I want to do a gender reveal party that’s burning down California. Can we just stop? [00:57:35][24.2]

Jameela: [00:57:38] Those were so fucking stupid when it happened. [00:57:40][2.2]

Michelle: [00:57:42] Yeah, I just I really was able to see my parents as people and not just like. You know, these. [00:57:49][7.3]

Jameela: [00:57:50] Devotees. [00:57:50][0.0]

Michelle: [00:57:51] Yeah. [00:57:51][0.0]

Jameela: [00:57:52] Because that’s what we all think we’re like, well, you’re supposed to be devoted to me because you’re because they are to an extent, but they’re also human beings that had whole lives and whole personalities and whole traumas of their own. And they had to live. [00:58:04][12.3]

Michelle: [00:58:04] From a whole different generation. [00:58:05][0.4]

Jameela: [00:58:05] You have to kind of if you can even you pause it to kind of raise the kids. And then some people can’t pause that. Most people can’t pause. And then it bleeds out to the kids and the kids grow up and they get fucking mad at you because you bled all over them with your shit and so it’s it’s complicated and it’s hard. [00:58:22][16.2]

Michelle: [00:58:22] And also like the generational situation of it all, like just even to have Caribbean parents and their parents and their peers. And it’s like, you know. From slavery, you come carrying secrets, you can’t let people know, you can’t let people know, you can read or write, you can’t let them know. And that behavior has been passed down for so long, you have to look right. You have to straighten your hair and pass, you have to be polite. You have to be educated to be better than everybody else. You have to you have to don’t share. And so, you know, just even living in this time. You know, historically, what that means for everybody that we’re starting to chip away, hopefully, and have this conversation without, you know. Being canceled or whatever the fuck, and not even like. My Twitter, just like by our family, right? This is so much fun. I feel like this is my big night out. [00:59:20][57.9]

Jameela: [00:59:22] Look, it sounds fucking hard and it sounds like it’s hard on a relationship and it sounds like it’s hard on your body and it’s hard on just because you’re not sleeping, whether or not you carried the children or not. It’s just relentless. But you’re also very happy and very in love. [00:59:39][16.3]

Michelle: [00:59:39] Yeah and I feel like a fucking warrior. I could do anything. You know, I take care of two two year olds fucking bring it. [00:59:49][9.4]

Jameela: [00:59:49] Yeah. I love listening to you describe what you thought motherhood was going to be like. What that you thought you would go to like the Maldives with them and you would write, while they were napping on the beach or some shit. And what is the reality if the reality is. [01:00:06][16.8]

Michelle: [01:00:06] Girl the reality is like can we get from like that room to that room without someone crying, can I ever have a clean floor? [01:00:13][6.8]

Jameela: [01:00:17] Never again. [01:00:17][0.2]

Michelle: [01:00:17] No, not for a good while. It doesn’t matter how much you clean it up. That’s the reality. But it’s still like, I don’t know, I’m realizing that I might thrive in chaos because this is what I this is this is all I wanted. [01:00:31][14.3]

Jameela: [01:00:32] I think a lot of women do. And I think that it definitely helps the fact that you wanted it for so long. It helps you be less resentful of like I fucking did everything to make this happen. So what is the thing that you most want mothers out there to know, you know, being someone who yourself has felt the shame or felt the fear, what is it out there that you want? We know what you want people who aren’t mothers or who aren’t mothers yet to know, which is that it isn’t just a fucking fairy tale and you really need to be prepared and it’s OK to not want it or not be able to do it. And. [01:01:04][31.7]

Michelle: [01:01:05] You know what I’d love to hear especially from whatever friend mom I’m texting about, vegetables or kids Tylenol, is that you’re doing a great job, you’re doing a fucking great job. And my message is always, you are enough like you are always enough. It doesn’t it doesn’t matter. It’s not easy. You think you’re taking the easy way out because you’re giving them pasta or whatever it is or you send them away to school or whatever it is. It’s just like you’re doing a great job. Don’t beat yourself up. You’re doing good. [01:01:39][33.7]

Jameela: [01:01:39] And do you believe that about yourself? [01:01:40][1.1]

Michelle: [01:01:43] Yes. [01:01:43][0.0]

Jameela: [01:01:43] You still have days where you’re just like, I’m fucking this up. [01:01:45][2.1]

Michelle: [01:01:47] Yeah every day, every day, it could be something so simple, as should I have the TV on right now or should I be talking to them? But I’m like, no, we’re tired of each other. Let’s take a break and a whole fucking day. You know, like, oh, should I be doing more alphabet situations with them? I’m like, here’s a book. With the Alphabet’s. [01:02:10][22.6]

Jameela: [01:02:12] Figure it out. [01:02:14][1.6]

Michelle: [01:02:15] Kinda you know what I mean? Hi bubs. [01:02:15][0.2]

Jameela: [01:02:17] Is that one of the babies who’s this? [01:02:18][1.6]

Michelle: [01:02:20] It is this is hazelnut. [01:02:20][0.5]

Jameela: [01:02:21] Well, look, I want to let you get back to your family. Thank you so much for giving me so much of your time. Michelle, will you please tell me, what do you weigh? [01:02:28][7.4]

Michelle: [01:02:31] I weigh my friendships, my chosen family, I weigh children and my kindness and. Because it’s so difficult and I weigh. Oh don’t put that in your mouth thank you my stand up, and my book. [01:02:59][28.3]

Jameela: [01:03:00] She’s talking to her daughter, not me, just to be clear. [01:03:01][1.8]

Michelle: [01:03:05] And I just I don’t know, is there a word for just really hoping that I brought joy to people? Is there a word for that? Because I want to weigh that too. [01:03:15][10.3]

Jameela: [01:03:16] Yeah. [01:03:16][0.0]

Michelle: [01:03:18] I weigh my integrity. I’m a good person. Yeah, I’m a bitch, but I’m also a good person. And you can be those two things at the same time. Thank you, Bubbs. Thank you. Oh, I was talking to my daughter, not you, but also thank you bubs. [01:03:31][13.1]

Jameela: [01:03:32] So nice to meet you. I’m so happy that you weigh so many wonderful things. And I’m so happy that you found a positive but exhausting ending to your surrogacy journey. And I am so glad you didn’t listen to that stupid fucking teacher who you took the headphone out of your daughter’s ear right when I said that? [01:03:53][21.1]

Michelle: [01:03:53] Oh, it deosn’t fucking matter. I’m her fucking mother. Just give me a fucking break. [01:04:01][8.4]

Jameela: [01:04:02] I’m so glad you didn’t listen to that teacher who told you that you were too fat to be in front of the camera because you’re in front of all of the cameras and you are extraordinary in front of all of them. You dazzled me the first time I saw you. And I’m so excited to see what you go on to do next. [01:04:14][12.7]

Michelle: [01:04:17] Thank you. Say thank you. Thank you. That’s so sweet. OK, I’m going to go cry now. No big deal. [01:04:27][10.2]

Jameela: [01:04:28] OK, you go crawl on the floor and just have a little moment. I hope your back feels better. Loads of love. [01:04:33][5.3]

Michelle: [01:04:34] Thank you. You too. [01:04:35][0.8]

Jameela: [01:04:37] Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela Jamil is produced and research by myself, Jameela Jamil, Aaron Finnegan and Kimmie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carson. And the beautiful music that you’re hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate, review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. I really appreciate it and amps me up to bring on better and better guests. Lastly, I say we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast, you can leave us a voicemail at 1-818-660-5543. Or email us what you weigh at IWeighpodcast@Gmail.com. It’s not pounds and kilos. Please don’t send that. It’s all about you just you know, you’ve been on the Instagram anyway, and now we would love to pass the mic to one of our listeners. [01:05:24][47.5]

Listener: [01:05:29] I weigh, despite still torturing myself on the scale, sometimes spreading a message to the younger generation of girls that I teach, I tell them we are amazing and unstoppable and should never be ashamed of the things that we’ve had to go through. And sometimes I tell them to believe that the things that my inner voice won’t even bloody tell me but I’m getting there. [01:05:29][0.0]

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