EP. 128 — Nervous Interrupter (Let’s All F***)

[00:01:02] CHRIS: Hello to all the punk rockers down the alley. It’s Beautiful Anonymous. One hour. One phone call. No names, no holds barred.

[00:01:18] THEME MUSIC: I’d rather go one-on-one. I think it’ll be more fun and I’ll get to know you and you’ll get to know me.

[00:01:28] CHRIS: Hello, everybody, welcome. Beautiful Anonymous Chris Gethard here. Thanking you so much. For listening to me and supporting me in general. You know, if you listen to the show, I’ve been on the road all summer long and just wrapped up Austin, Texas. By the time you heard this. Recording it before I go to Austin. Love that town, hope It goes well. That means that we’ve got our London taping coming up. They opened up some more seats for the London taping. Also a standup show and one of them sold out. One of the stand up shows is not. You’ll get tickets for all those things. See you soon, London. I remember last time I was in London, I’ve talked about on this show how career suicide, I’d been duking it out; I couldn’t wrap my head around it, but I will say so many Beautiful Anonymous fans came out so psyched to bring the show to London and meet all you guys again. And I get those tickets, they are going fast. ChrisGeth.com is where you can get the tickets. You can also find out information on my new book, Lose Well, it’s coming out. You got a few weeks left to preorder it. And man, would it be a huge relief if you did. It would be a weight off your guys shoulders. If you’re planning on getting the book, why not preorder it. It removes some stress from my life. Make the publishing company happy. Actually, this week we got a little preorder incentive. There’s a few of them on there, including one where I will send you an outgoing voice mail message as a thank you for your purchase. People who buy multiple copies of the book, I will actually call you on the phone. I spent this week calling a bunch of people. They all won. I wound up talking to all these people for like, I think it says it’s a two-minute call. I wound up talking to everybody for like ten minutes. Just nice people, the people. That’s the thing I’ve learned going out on the road, doing projects like this, doing these giveaways; that people who listen to this show are just thoughtful people, just kind people. And I thank God for all of you for listening. I really do. So you want to preorder the book? Go do it. And if you want to do the crazy one where you order a bunch of copies; giveaway as presents and then we talk on the phone. We can talk on the phone. ChrisGeth.com again is where all that info is at. Exciting thing about being on the road, want to make sure I don’t forget. I did a show, one of my shows in Salt Lake City at Wise Guys had a really great time meeting all you guys at Wise Guys, the nicest, nicest people came up to me after the show. There was one night where I met two callers, you guys, on the same night I met 39-year-old grandma and major postal bitch. Two recent stand out callers beloved by the community. So nice to meet both of them. Hope they’re doing well. And I wanted to say something that I actually thought was really nice meeting. I feel bad referring to a human as major postal bitch. It is a name that was self-granted. But meeting the caller from that call, what a sweet guy, and went out of his way. He said Chris, I just wanted to, I knew I was going to be seeing you, I didn’t want to post this on the Facebook group or put it online. I wanted to just tell you face to face that, you know, I saw a lot of people’s reactions to the show. And I know that I described some situations that got out of control and he said please let the listeners know I take domestic abuse really seriously. And I volunteer now and I’ve worked hard. And, you know, there were stories there about, you know, drug use and fighting and whatnot. And face to face had a conversation with the subject of the episode, Major Postal Bitch, where he wanted me to reassure all the listeners. You got to deal with, you deal with your choices. Deal with the life you lead and try to do right. And it was so nice to meet him face to face. He just really, it was very, it was very important for me to relay that. And I wanted to make sure we sent that message out there into the world, because I thought that was, I really love that call when I was doing it. I thought the some of the stories were, you know, very in a certain way, sort of extreme. Good listening. Citing the here, but also real life consequences to meet the real life person, he said, no, there have been consequences and I’m working really hard and I take it seriously. And your listeners should know that. I thought that was a good example to set such a cool thing. All right, last week’s episode, we talked with someone who worked at Facebook and owned two gigantic cats that once kept from taking a job. I have to say the Beautiful Anonymous Facebook community, which is such a nice oasis of positivity in the increasingly negative cesspool that is the Internet at large. Facebook, it just broke 30000 members, by the way, on the Facebook group. Come join up, discuss episodes, one of my favorite things. First of all, you’ll be happy to hear in the discussion thread for the episode the caller sent Harry Nelson, good old Harry Nelson, some pictures of the cats in question. Posted some pictures of the cats. They’re now down to, the living cat, one passed away. The cat is sixteen pounds now has lost some weight. Sixteen pounds. So you can see a picture of the 16 pound cat. Also want to make sure I give special thanks to Laura. Laura, who posted a picture of herself holding a 20-pound cat that she owns, and Alison replied and said: “The girthiest angel I have ever seen. What an immense squish.” So if you want to see the girthiest angel and an immense squish of a cat, join the Facebook group. Someone else, let me scroll down to this one, Sareena. posted the picture of her cat that weighs twenty-eight pounds. What the hell are you talking about? Here’s my 28 pounds of cat. He lived with us only a short while as my other kitties were not welcoming him. Yeah, because it’s a monster in their world. But his new owner sends me updates all the time. He’s a Norwegian forest cat and the gentlest and most lovey dovey giant you have ever seen with a picture of a 28 pound cat being held by dude.

Oh, God, cat pictures on the Internet. It’s why the Internet was invented. OK. This week’s episode, an interesting one. I would say an intense one. It’s one that I thought a lot about since we first held the call. A lot of people, I think, are going to be very fascinated by this episode. Not everyone is going to have positive feelings about it. There’s gonna be a range there and that’s OK.  If you discuss it online, I’ll just ask, retain your humanity. Human beings are human beings. This person is opening up, being vulnerable. This is someone who lives a traveling lifestyle. That’s something I can identify with, this is someone who’s on the road, as you’re gonna hear. And part of living the road life, especially if you get into it when, you know, during stretches, when you’re single, you meet people, you go from city to city and maybe you, meet up with people for fleeting instances. This is someone who I think is in the call, it’s fair to say, right, Harry, wrapping their head around the fact that maybe this has gone too far. This is someone who has some addiction issues. And it’s a really interesting call. Really intense call. There’s gonna be some moments that I think people sympathize with. It’s going to be some moments that people draw some lines about. There’s gonna be some moments that people feel like crossed some lines. I think the caller is aware of all that and is trying to sort all that out, trying to rationalize what all that means and what some of the choices they made along the way. Reflect on what impact they’ve had. It’s an interesting one. It’s an interesting one. I also sing a lot. I sing a lot of bad punk rock songs along the way so there’s still some fun there. But I’ll tell you, it’s an issue that, uh, that we don’t talk about so much. And we get to hear it from someone who’s kind of sorting out being in the middle of the issues. So there’s sympathy to be had. There’s some shock to be had, but overall, there’s empathy to be had. So let’s remember that. Let’s enjoy the call.

[00:09:31] PHONE ROBOT: Thank you for calling Beautiful Anonymous. A beeping noise will indicate when you are on the show with the host.

[00:09:38] CHRIS: Hello.

[00:09:41] CALLER: Hello.

[00:09:42] CHRIS: Hi.

[00:09:46] CALLER: Hello?

[00:09:48] CHRIS: Hello

[00:09:49] CALLER: Is this Chris?

[00:09:50] CHRIS: This is Chris.

[00:09:52] CALLER: I feel like they always say, is this, Chris, because I don’t think that you ever think about the you that you’re just waiting. And then Chris comes.

[00:10:00] CHRIS: Yeah, traditionally. Hi. Is this Chris? Is said at the beginning of most calls.

[00:10:07] CALLER: Right, Well. Happy to be here. How are you?

[00:10:13] CHRIS: Happy to have you. How am I? I tell you, I’m in a very, I mean, one of these weird, like foggy mindsets. I got just last night, pretty late in the day, I got asked to do a role on Crashing Pete Holmes show on HBO.

[00:10:29] CALLER: what a fantastic show.

[00:10:29] CHRIS: Yeah. I really love it. And the great Judd Apatow is an executive producer and he’s been a real mentor to me and Pete Holmes

[00:10:36] CALLER: Yeah, I actually watched his A&E show Culture Shock has like a Freaks and Geeks documentary.

[00:10:45] CHRIS: I haven’t seen it yet. How is it?

[00:10:48] CALLER: Oh, my God. I. My heart was about to burst the whole time. It was so beautiful.

[00:10:52] CHRIS: That’s awesome. I mean, the Gary

[00:10:55] CALLER:  They made it all feel so, so cool.

[00:10:58] CHRIS: The Garry Shandling doc he did for HBO, I think is like next level.

[00:11:02] CALLER: Can you hear me?

[00:11:03] CHRIS: Yeah

[00:11:04] CALLER: OK, I thought maybe you were cutting out a little bit there. One second, I’m going to switch to, I have my headphones on, but I’m going to take them off and just switch to normal phone. I’m sorry.

[00:11:16] CHRIS: No worries, Let’s do it.

[Whispers]: Just trying to talk about Garry Shandling a little bit but…

[00:11:23] CALLER: OK, hello?

[00:11:24] CHRIS: Hi, hi

[00:11:26] CALLER: OK, Yeah. The show is, the episode is incredible. And it just, it was very, a lot more emotional than I expected it to be. I didn’t realize that the show was kind of just like. I mean, I realize how important it was to people. Me, my brother used to watch it when we were very young. I mean, it was on TV when I was maybe 12, 13. So It hit me pretty hard, but then, I watched all those people become famous and I knew that it was, it had a lot to do with them being on that show. But still kind of blown away by how; well, maybe it was just the documentary captured it so emotionally. It was really special. You should watch it. Especially if you are a fan.

[00:12:08] CHRIS: I will, I’ll check it out.

[00:12:09] CALLER: It’s wonderful.

00:12:15] CHRIS: I’ve been up since 5am

00:12:16] CALLER: Yeah, I’m having a weird day, can we talk about my day?

00:12:18] CHRIS: Yeah. OK, OK I can wait.

00:12:20] CALLER: Wait, did you finish talking about your day?

[00:12:21] CHRIS: No. That’s OK. It’s not about me. I mean, you asked, you asked

[00:12:27] CALLER: I remember that. You said that three seconds ago. Yeah, on this wonderful show.

[00:12:30] CHRIS: I just wanted to give you warning. I’ve been up since 5:00 a.m.

[00:12:37] CALLER: That’s great, I’m also exhausted. I don’t want to talk about my work because I feel like it would be very revealing. It would make it pretty easy for a lot of people that I know; I know who listens to the show that may be able to determine who I am. But suffice it to say that I travel for work and I’ve been I worked until 3:00 a.m. on Sunday night or Sunday morning, Saturday night, and flew home at 6:00 a.m. and then like slept for a few hours and then just have pretty much worked since. And now it’s Wednesday night. And I leave for the airport at about an hour and a half, two hours, I’m going to be there. So that’s weird. When I hang up with this phone call, I’ll go to the airport and then work for a month.

[00:13:27] CHRIS: A month? You do the frequent flyers?

[00:13:31] CALLER: You know, I got a couple of points, but they don’t seem to do much good.

[00:13:36] CHRIS: If you’re flying as much as you say you are and you’re not doing a frequent flyer, then frankly, my friend, I don’t even know where to begin with you.

[00:13:45] CALLER: I don’t book my own airfare, my employers do. So perhaps I’m just a little dim and I don’t know how to play the system well enough. You know, I don’t always fly the same airline, so I have an okay amount of points with a lot of airlines.

[00:14:01] CHRIS: You got to focus up and strategize, buddy.

[00:14:05] CALLER: I agree with you. I appreciate. I appreciate the check because I agree. I think it’s something that I need to, I need to get my hands on. But honestly, on the list of things, it’s not on the top of the of my to do list.

[00:14:20] CHRIS: OK.

[00:14:21] CALLER: Yeah, like I was saying, like as exhausted as I am from this, from all this travel. It’s also, I’ve been having a hard time recently determining how to do; I feel very unsettled and unsatisfied about my life. And just that I kind of happened into my job and I love it. And it represents, it’s so, it’s so heavily involved in the things that matter the most to me and I’m very lucky to do what I do and make money doing it. And I think a lot of people would love to do what I do and I think a lot of people do it for free because it’s a wonderful thing to do, but I just, it’s kind of lost its charm. I don’t feel attached to it anymore and it feels like a paycheck which is something that I never wanted to be. You know? So I don’t know. It’s been difficult to reconcile that something that used to fill my heart up entirely is now; causes me to feel an incredible amount of emptiness.

[00:15:37] CHRIS: You just sound like

[00:15:38] CALLER: I feel like a giant, nameless hole in my chest and I don’t have any permanence in my life.

[00:15:43] CHRIS: I feel we will be able to connect cause you’re describing every standup comedian I know. You travel all the time. That weird? Although no one buys our airfare for us. That’s how I know you’re not a comedian. Your not schleppin out your own air fare. But yeah, this idea that you travel around doing the thing you love and a lot of people do it for free because t is its dream but it also isolates you

[00:16:01] CALLER: I don’t feel like being vague anymore. I do road crew for bands. I like tour with bands.

[00:16:08] CHRIS: I had a feeling; I was gonna say, are you in music management

[00:16:12] CALLER: No, I’m actually a merch guy,

[00:16:14] CHRIS: Merch guy, big bands so that stuff flies that’s not an easy gig.

[00:16:20] CALLER: No, it’s not. All of the bands I work for so, you know, twice a year, like twice the amount of a year’s worth of rent for me a night, usually the case. So it’s a lot of work and it’s a lot of stress, but it’s also being around things that are very important to me and it’s something that I did because I was; I got into it basically just by like I was very, very involved in music my whole life. I just loved it, music was all that mattered. And then when it came time to go to college, I didn’t go and instead went and toured with some really close friends of mine. And just did the thing where you just sleep on floors and you put a tip jar out that says, we’ll mow your lawn and do your dishes if you’ll let us sleep on your floor. Then we didn’t get murdered and stayed on people’s floors all over the country and then just did it and did it and did it. We were just kind of like fucked up in the head and just wanted to go to different places and get drunk with each other.

[00:17:19] CHRIS: Mm hmm. D.I.Y. baby. D.I.Y. baby black flag sleeping in the church, baby.

[00:17:28] CALLER: Yeah, well, it wasn’t quite that dangerous.

[00:17:30] CHRIS: Get in the van; David Henry Rollins.

[00:17:33] CALLER: Get in the van. I think we came in at the end where it was like a little less. I feel like we were one of the last eras of the DIY lifestyle that’s when I started getting into music; very heavily involving myself in it. It was still, it was right before the Internet so I feel like me and my friends and a lot of the people I know that are doing cool stuff now came in right at the end of that. Right at the end of it.

[00:18:07] CHRIS: Sounds like we might be of similar age. I’m 38.

[00:18:10] CALLER: I’m 31.

[00:18:12] CHRIS: Your 31? Oh, you see, you’re younger than I. Yeah, like the Internet, like I remember the days when, say, you’d find new music by reading zines, you’d read fans zines.

[00:18:23] CALLER: Yeah, well here’s the thing, I grew up in a shitty small town and we had not, we didn’t have anything and I didn’t have much money growing up.  We didn’t have like, you know, even when people started getting Internet, I probably didn’t have it, but I started going to shows really young like 12.

[00:18:37] CHRIS: You have a cool older brother?

[00:18:40] CALLER: No, he’s only about, less than a year and half older than me. We’re both very young. We were just with my single mom and no dad.

[00:18:51] CHRIS: So no supervision?

[00:18:54] CALLER: Right. I can’t even believe some of the things that we used to do. You know, like we would just lie and then just go two towns over to a horrible place. That was the first time I heard the name of almost every single drug was in the alleyway, of that front door, of the punk venue and I was like 13 going in there. But I mean, you know, I heard about bands from just reading liner notes, you know, the voting and buying their records.

[00:19:24] CHRIS: Yeah, and you look up stuff that’s on the same label and you start to realize people cross over.

[00:19:31] CALLER: I miss that. You know, like being able to trust a label completely. Like when I was a kid, man. Look Out Records, I can’t imagine. I remember this one band that was on Lookout Records that I always remember and they were like the only band that I just found in liner notes or in like this catalog that came in the C.D., you know,

[00:19:50] CHRIS: Whose that? Because I was a pretty big Lookout fan.

[00:19:54] CALLER: Right on man. Do you remember that band Rife?

[00:19:59] CHRIS: Rife?

[00:20:00] CALLER: They rarely gets a reaction from people and I think the only thing that I remember is they were the only one that wasn’t good. Yeah, I think it was Lookout. I mean, it could have been, you know, I don’t know it’s been awhile.

[00:20:12] CHRIS: I’m going to go ahead. I’m going to go ahead and list some of my favorite Lookout records releases for anyone who might be listening. Tell me if you agree or disagree. Number one, one of my greatest albums of all time. I remember the day I bought it, I got in trouble because I skipped out on practice for the school musical my freshman year of high school. The Mr. T experience Love is Dead. Great album, Blue Vinyl.

[00:20:32] CALLER: You, sir, that would have been my first. That would. That would be top three for sure. Respect. Continue.

[00:20:38] CHRIS: Track one, Sackcloth and Ashes. Track two, Ba Ba Ba Ba Ba. Great tunes.

[00:20:44] CALLER: And where do you go from Ba Ba Ba Ba Ba?  You wouldn’t imagine where? Where could you go from there?

[00:20:47] CHRIS: That is such a high point. What is after Ba Ba Ba Ba Ba? What is it? Is it Thank You For Not Being One of Them? A song close to my heart.

[00:20:56] CALLER: Is that, I thought it was

[00:20:59] CHRIS: I’m probably wrong on the order. I don’t remember.

[00:21:00] CALLER: I Wrote a Book about Rock and Roll? I might be wrong. I was trying to give you a big a big entrance into that but we both blew it. And I always was a big fan

[00:21:05] CHRIS [sings]: Cause when they did, Did it again, I want to thank you for not being one of them. Thank you for not being one of them. Wo-Woah

[00:21:14] CALLER: What a fantastic band. And the thing about the Mr. T experience;

it’s really special because they were; they have been around for a really long time, like they started in like

[00:21:28] CHRIS: Oh, yeah, the 80s

[00:21:30] CALLER: Mid 80s, like I want to say 86 and they were just the popiest thing and there wasn’t any of that going on then. I mean, The Descendants of course, but it wasn’t really a lot of like people making like, playing clean guitars and playing like you know, like that poppy of like

[00:21:48] CHRIS: And The Descendants were still angry. The MTX was more sad.

[00:21:54] CALLER: Correct. And The Descendants was also goofy The Descendants mean a whole lot to me man. Can I tell you how much the Descendants mean to me and then you could tell me your second favorite Lookout record?

[00:22:03] CHRIS: You got a Milo tattoo? What are we talking?

[00:22:06] CALLER: Of course. I got one on my 18th birthday.

[00:22:09] CHRIS: Hahahaha. Insular punk rock talk that should do great with our community. OK, how much do they mean to you? Is that what you’re gonna say?

[00:22:18] CALLER: Hahaha. So yeah, when I started going to that shitty punk venue, I was a small person and I was so scrawny that you know, it was tracks for weirdos and that’s great and it was for people who didn’t fit in. And all my punk friends came from broken homes and it all felt OK being around people that were also fucked up. And then I would go to punk shows and then you know, I would still get picked on like they would just kind of push me around still and goof off with me because kids are kids. People are people and they just like to pick on people that are small. And that’s just normal for some people, it just happens. So just being like a scrawny kid, I still get picked on there for like fuck punk rock shits dumb it’s another fuckin cool kids club. Like I don’t want it. You know, I listen to like cool kids Screeching Weasel and shit. Think about that.

[00:23:12] CHRIS [sings]: There’s a real cool club on the other side of town. De-ne-ne-ne-near. Yeah it’s a real cool club and you’re not part of it…Right?

[00:23:21] CALLER: That’s right. And then I would go to these shows and still get picked off as this group punk. And then I heard The Descendents for the first time. I think because like Sublime, cover them on that record. You know, they covered Hope on 40 Ounces to Freedom. This is the first time I’ve said 40 ounces to Freedom in a long time. That’s a ridiculous album title. Haha

[00:23:45] CHRIS: I think people might be liking my samples of the songs I’ve now sang a little Mr. T Experience, MTX, sang a little Screeching Weasel maybe

[00:23:52] CALLER: I mean, I have the feeling we could talk a lot about punk rock. So if you want to maybe like we can

[00:23:57] CHRIS: LET ME TALK then, LET ME TALK, my man.

[00:24:00] CALLER: I’m sorry.

[00:24:01] CHRIS: You’re nervous, YOU”RE NERVOUS, I know, you’re the nervous interrupter. That’s the name of your punk band, The Nervous Interrupters. I’m going to give a little sample of The Descendants so people know what we’re talking about. The Descendants sound a little something like this: [sings]: Even though you’ll never come clean. You know, it’s true. These sheets are dirty. And so are you. Ok, continue. The nervous interrupter. I’m going to make fun of you every time you nervous interrupts from now on.

[00:24:32] CALLER: That’s great.

[00:24:33] CHRIS: Push you around, like a kid at a show

[00:24:36] CALLER: It’s very 80s.

[00:24:37] CHRIS: It is

[00:24:38] CALLER: I don’t know what you said because I talked.

[00:24:39] CHRIS: Yeah, that’s OK. It is very 80s, but a great song. Maybe a little misogynistic.

[00:24:44] CALLER: So anyway, it sucked there and I didn’t like it. It made me uncomfortable and then I heard The Descendants because Sublime covered them and Sublime was a very successful band at that point. So I heard The Descendants and then I bought the record cause I liked it. That was like one of my first bands that wasn’t like a main punk band or a local punk band. It was like, there was local bands playing shows around town. Then there was like the main ones, like Blink-182 and Green Day there on the radio that I knew about and, you know, like MTX and things that were just like high up enough that you just know of them. But The Descendants was my first, like, real punk band, I guess I thought and then I got the record and I saw a photo of them and I couldn’t believe how ugly and goofy they were. Then they had tracks where it was just like whole tracks of them farting into a record, you know?

[00:25:31] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:25:31] CALLER: Like in a recorder.

[00:25:33] CHRIS: Yeah. We’re going to put out a special episode of Beautiful Anonymous like that beautiful farts from anonymous people or anyone who can call in

[00:25:40] CALLER: Is that right? I missed that one, must me in the back catalog.

[00:25:40] CHRIS: It’s gonna be on Stitcher Premium…hahaha, behind the pay wall…hahaha

[00:25:52] CALLER: Hahahah, It’s not one of those you can get free on I-tunes. But anyway, so the Descendants, seeing them and looking at them and then hearing them; they sounded tough to a degree because it’s kind of fast and it has guts to it. But it’s also very emotional. It’s about girls, it’s about being sad, it’s about being fucked up and not fitting in, and blah, blah, blah.

[00:26:08] CHRIS: And they look like me.

[00:26:09] CALLER: I never felt, yeah, me too, man. And I never felt like that ever before. And I know and I’ve been like, that was the moment where I was like, you know, I don’t know if I knew it then, but that was definitely the moment where I was just forever…Seeing the Descendants and seeing what they looked like at the time, was the moment where I realized that I was never going to live like in a straight path, kind of, you know, normal kind of life.

[00:26:32] CHRIS: Good ol punk rock, I had a similar experience for punk rock, OK, now I’m going to go ahead and say this. We can return to punk rock later and I’ll keep listing some of my favorite cuts from the Lookout records. I also guarantee you that we’ve been going for I mean, we’ve been going for 18 minutes and it’s all we talk about. We have to talk about something besides punk rock because I can guarantee that many people are going, this is, this was interesting and now not so much. You’re saying, that being in this music world, being on the edge of the music scene, traveling bands that are getting progressively bigger, it’s burning you out. Leaving you feeling empty inside, leaving you feeling hollow inside. So how is this, uh, how is this affecting things, affecting your life? I would imagine hard to find a way to make the positive change in your life when you live a life that’s intentionally foundationless.

[00:27:23] CALLER: That’s intentionally fast? Did you say?

[00:27:25] CHRIS: Foundationless.

[00:27:30] CALLER: Oh, foundationless you cut out there for a second. Yes, it’s very difficult.

[00:27:34] CHRIS: [music transition] Intentionally foundationless. That could be the album title for any number of emo bands I grew up listening to, I bet our caller would agree. Shame I didn’t get that joke out on the call. I can only get it out as I tell you about advertisements, the most punk rock thing of all, advertisements. Listen guys, we got these ads coming up. They got promo codes, use them if you’re so inclined. Those promo codes help the show when you do. We’ll be right back with more phone call after this.

[00:28:02] AD BREAK

[00:30:42] CHRIS: [music transition] Thanks again to all of our sponsors. Now let’s get back to the phone call. Hard to find a way the positive change in your life when you’ve live a life that’s intentionally foundationless.

[00:30:55] CALLER: Oh, foundationless you cut out there for a second. Yes, it’s very difficult.

[00:31:05] CHRIS: What’s going on?

[00:31:07] CALLER: I don’t know, man. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about whether or not it’s like a chicken or the egg thing. Like, do I do what I do for a living because it means so much to me or is it because I need to run away from things like every month.

[00:31:23] CHRIS: Running away

[00:31:24] CALLER: I mean, I’ve never like, I’ve kept relationships going for a while. But just the freedom that I’ve had has kept me from truly experiencing them. And, you know, the last relationship that I have had is for three and a half years and I was home for maybe half of that. So was I in a relationship for a year and three quarters or how does that work, you know?  Ask her, you can. But yeah, it is really fucking hard. The transitioning is super difficult because I never truly feel, like, I’m in one place and I used to love the idea of being able to just cut and run. And now I’m in a place in my life where I’m particularly very alone. Like literally very alone. I moved to the other side of the country to be with my ex. We lived in an apartment together for three and a half years. Then we split up. I left her and I stayed in that sad, weird little apartment. It’s been about seven months now. And, you know, I don’t know anybody out here because I never tried to have a social life because I’ve always been working or with her so all my time is home alone and that is, this is a pretty powerful experience. Like I learned a lot, but it’s really difficult at times. Did I answer your question? I don’t even know.

[00:32:55] CHRIS: I don’t know, man. My thing is, I ask you one question and then you just go. That’s what I’ve noticed; you just go

[00:33:00] CALLER: Anyone who knows me know that I talk a lot.

[00:33:06] CHRIS: Yeah, you just go. But yeah, you spout out a lot of stuff buddy. It gives me a lot to talk about. So the relationship, you gave it the honest shot. You moved to be with somebody. Broke up now. You’re 31 years old. You’re at an age where maybe the novelty of the road life is not as appealing as it used to be in that particular sense.

[00:33:28] CALLER: I guess I just feel like something’s got to give. You know, like I’m in a place where my job is not extremely exciting anymore and it feels like a paycheck, like I said before, which is heart breaking. And then I’m also at a place where like, I could, you know, live anywhere. Like, I have no ties to this place and my job lets me, I can live anywhere I want because of my job. So I just kind of I feel like something’s got to give. Like, should I just cut and run and move to fuckin Germany or some shit and live there.

[00:34:00] CHRIS: I heard Germany’s cool. I heard Berlin’s real cool

[00:34:04] CALLER: I would live in Cologne. I think that’s a really special city.

[00:34:07] CHRIS: Cologne? All right. Now, let me ask you, I got some questions to ask, I got a big one. Who knows, it’s a stab in the dark. Might be nothing to this. Might bring some stuff up. You say it’s very. it’s been very hard for you to keep a relationship. Even said that you’re three-and-a-half-year relationship, does that even count as three years when you’re gone so much? You’re on the road. You’re the merch guy, you’re the tip of the spear as far as overzealous fans who want to party. Is this a part of your life? Is this a part of it? This relationship conundrum? You know what I’m saying.

[00:34:48] CALLER: You asking of me being on the road is the part like being out there and having like unlimited opportunity.

[00:34:56] CHRIS: I’m saying, I’m saying that, look, you’re a merch guy who loves to talk and it sounds like you’re working bands of a level that there are some fanatics. There’s girls who are talking to ya, girls come in. I’m starting to connect all the dots is what I’m saying of why it’s so hard to have a relationship. Also, I’m on the road all the time. Your buddy Gethard starts to wonder what’s at the root of this.

[00:35:21] CALLER: I…You know, I’ve done some things. See, this you know, I’ve never had an easy time with fidelit and being, you know, with one person forever has never been easy. But, you know, I mean, it’s just, it’s something that I’ve fought and worked on and it’s just kind of; I mean. I have ADHD and there’s a lot of impulsiveness there and I think as a younger person, the impulse, that giving in to the impulse was impossible and with age, it’s become easier. And, you know, with my ex, I did you know, I was single for years before that and I was working on that, specifically.

[00:36:23] CHRIS: On fidelity?

[00:36:24] CALLER: Before I had met her and worked out specifically on my ability to, you know, like I wondered if I was just incapable of being with one person. And I wasn’t really open minded enough to understand like the merits of polyamorous relationships or just alternative relationships in general. But I met her and I was just, it had this like very old-school idea of just; she’s the one that’s going to give me the power within myself to actually put in to play all these things that I’ve been spending these years alone working on. And to some degree, I was correct and then I was faithful to her for a good long time and then at the end of it, kind of why I left was because I knew that I was selling myself short and that I wasn’t really able to do it. So that’s pretty much why I left her.

[00:37:17] CHRIS: Because that’s the temptations were too great? And you couldn’t withstand?

[00:37:21] CALLER: Not so much as about like having sex with people that I meet on tour. It’s more about like…different kinds of sex. You know, I’d never been with a man. I had never been with a trans person. And for all things that excited me a great deal and I just like was, I’ve always been, you know, punk rock being around as long as I have, like, you know, and you get it. It’s a very supportive community, or at least it can be. I grew up around a lot of people who had a really good idea of all that. But I also grew up at the end of the you know, like I said before, when Blink 182 was on the radio and calling your friends gay was still something I did up until I was like 15, 16 you know, probably later. It’s just I grew up in a time and place where people weren’t checking each other as much. I think like someone who’s in the punk scene, like five, maybe 10 years younger than me, it’s a lot better of a situation than when I was coming out. You’ve probably been around comedians and stuff and they did the worse shit they can think of just to make each other laugh and you’re in a van for ten hours and what else are you going to say?

[00:38:28] CHRIS: And growing up punk too. That’s another thing, I’m so overwhelmed and so overjoyed. You know, being the old guy who still sometimes goes to punk shows in some of these DIY spaces, even though most in Brooklyn have been shutting down. This whole idea that punk rock shows are safe spaces is a thing. A lot of people who hear that phrase and for anyone listening that’s the thing that’s very popular in punk rock right now is this idea of like, if you’re at a punk show, you’re safe there. That’s a safe space no matter who you are. That’s overwhelming and that’s new. That’s a new part of the culture. When I…

[00:39:00] CALLER: Very new not even,

[00:39:02] CHRIS: LET ME FINISH Interrupter!! Interrupter. I’m going to start destroying you on that. You’re the interrupter, let me finish.

[00:39:09] CALLER: Haha, that was aggressive, that works.

[00:39:12] CHRIS: Haha, I was going to say when I was a kid and it sounds like you too where ever you grew up, you would go to punk shows sometimes and you didn’t know if you were going to get the shit beat out of you by skinheads. You didn’t know that. You were going to go to a punk show and you might hear some of the most closed minded stuff. You might get beat up by a bunch of like militant vegans back in the day. Like there was a lot of that stuff or like militant Krishna bands that would beat you up. Like a lot of those different hardcore bands had these like very specific sets of ideals and they’d fight…

[00:39:42] CALLER: I have to interrupt. There was militant Christian bands?

[00:39:45] CHRIS: Oh yeah, there’s Krishna hardcore. I don’t know how militant the Krishna guys were though, I think I mix them all up in my…

[00:39:51] CALLER: Are you saying Christian or like Hari Krishna?

[00:39:57] CHRIS:  Krishna, hold on, wasn’t Seven Seconds; I don’t think they were militant. Yeah Krishna core there’s a whole wing of a hardcore called Krishna Core. You got to get in on the Krishna core My point being,

[00:40:11] CALLER: That’s wild, I had no idea.

[00:40:12] CHRIS: Punk rock gets very tribal and territorial and weird and at times close minded. And the idea that it’s this bastion of open-minded thought is a beautiful, beautiful thing. But the idea that that’s universal is relatively new. Used to be terrifying to me. Sometimes you’d go to punk rock shows that were transcendent and beautiful. Sometimes you’d go and you’d feel more scared than you ever felt your life.

[00:40:34] CALLER: I can attest to that personally. I mean, I did. The only reason I don’t like hardcore is because of how violent it can be. Like I grew up in a place where the hardcore kids who were pretty gnarly, like tough, like straight edge. It was all straight edge. Still was that same shitty punk club. What’s that?

[00:40:54] CHRIS: Those straight edge kids will come at you.

[00:40:56] CALLER: What did you say?

[00:41:00] CHRIS: Nothing. It’s okay. Move on. It’s OK.

[00:41:03] CALLER: That same shitty punk club that I used to go to as a kid. We’d go to Scott shows or emo shows or whatever punk shows, pop, punk and it was all…cool. We would just skateboard and smoke weed and drink. We could find it and things like that and that’s what we would do outside the show and that’s just what happened. And then you’d go to all those shows, it was fun, nobody gave you shit and you go to the hardcore shows and they were just like, beat you up and kick you around for not being you know, like that. Also, we had to go to a place that was terrifying, you know, like we had to go to a place that was just, you could just get stabbed by someone else. You know, there’s not the gangs or skinhead gangs, shit, I don’t think you see that anymore. It used to be more dangerous I agree.

[00:41:49] CHRIS: Yeah, you’d be 16 years old, you’d have to go to some like terrible corner of three towns over and be amongst people who were in real bad shape. Anyway, OK, so let’s focus up. Let’s focus up. So, you said you used to be more close minded even as a young punk, but you’re getting more open minded now. I was very intrigued. So you need, there’s a need for sexual exploration or experimentation, however you’d like to phrase it, that you feel like maybe that’s part of your inability to settle down thus far in life.

[00:42:27] CALLER: Perhaps. I mean, I guess maybe, you know, I’ve never admitted to myself that I could even be attracted to a man until very recently, which again, seems so fucking crazy to say out loud because I spent my life in a community that even back then, when it was more dangerous, it was still there, an emphasis on open mindedness. I mean, at least in this broad non consumerist, nonconformist way that was juvenile, but it was still there. You know, I mean, I had propaganda’s records when I was 14 years old that just said anti-racist, anti-homophobia, all that shit all over it and I loved it. That was a beautiful thing but even growing up, growing up around that shit, I still felt like here I am, fuckin 18 years later and I’m like embarrassed to admit that it’s only recently that I can admit to myself that I have like sexual feelings for any, for people that aren’t exclusively women and then the idea of having romantic feelings for them is still so new. So then I think I’m 31 years old and all the sudden I’m having these feelings and I’m admitting them to myself and that’s the first step towards acting on them. And then I’m acting on them and then thinking, well, you know, I’m embracing these ideas but it’s like I spent fuckin 30, am I cursing too much? I spent 30 years telling myself I’m a straight man, you know, and I don’t know how to, like, it’s not like I’m bummed. I mean I’m proud of myself for doing these things but it’s a little bit of confusion and there’s a little bit of anxiety because it just opens the door to so many things that you think, well, where am I? And that had a lot to do with leaving my ex. But it’s like, well, if that’s the case, then you know, where do I go from here and if there’s that many options, if everybody I meet is somebody that I could love. I don’t mean, I don’t know. Maybe I’m a little confused and maybe I’m a little anxious to understand myself, and I think that I have something inside me that makes me want to really pin it down when I don’t think it needs to be. That makes sense?

[00:44:31] CHRIS: Well, it’s an interesting world, right? Like we’re shifting from a world that has some very firm solid lines in regards to how we classify this exact type of thing into a world that’s much more willing to have dotted lines or no lines at all and that’s really beautiful.

[00:44:49] CALLER: Yeah, and I feel like I was in, I was like amidst the transition. Like when I was young, it was hardly there and now it’s so there that I feel like I’m almost, it’s harder for me to embrace it because I was raised in; I was raised in a time when it was not something you’d really embraced or talked about now you know, the formative years of my life are gone and now I’m in a place where; where I feel more comfortable being who I am. And is that just something that comes with age? Is the world changing? Probably both. I mean, I was raised by immigrants to a degree. My grandparents are immigrants and lot of like heavy patriarchal shit going on there. As much as I want to, It’s in me forever. I can work with it, but it’s there.

[00:45:36] CHRIS: Yeah, religious shit, man. You don’t have to tell me twice I’m an Irish Catholic it will never leave. Never leave. So it sounds like you’ve just, so I can be clear about where you’re at, it sounds like you have entered a phase where you are…how do I put it? You are sort of testing your new open mindedness. You’re taking action on it, but maybe still not totally. You’re still overwhelmed by that. So it sounds like you’ve had some hookups, you’ve started to explore, but it’s still kind of a mindfuck for you that it’s going down.

[00:46:09] CALLER: Yeah, but then and then that’s where it gets into some hairy shit though because the thing about it is, that because I do what I do for a living. It’s like there are times and places where it’s not, you now, like when I first broke off my girlfriend, for example, I was in this place where you just start fucking go. You just jump in every bar and throw your hands up and say lets all fuck you know, you’re just in that mood where…

[00:46:35] CHRIS: And that works? Does that work? Does that work when you run into a bar, throw your hands in the air and yell, let’s all fuck. Does that work out?

[00:46:43] CALLER: BAHAHAHA! Only metaphorically!

[00:46:46] CHRIS: I’ve had a couple of stretches where I was single and really out on the town. I even in my most hound dog days, I don’t remember ever running into a bar and shouting Let’s. All. Fuck. And having that work.

[00:46:58] CALLER: Yeah, going to the wrong bars pal.

[00:47:01] CHRIS: Maybe the right ones, my friend. Hahahaha.

[00:47:07] CALLER: Hahahaha. I think that, what I meant was that, I was at a place where I wanted to explore so I was exploring and I as you noticed, I’m someone who talks a good deal and I’m very friendly and very approachable. And again, I’m a small person. I’m very non-threatening. Very goofy. So I come up to you in a random public place chances are you’re going to be entertained but I have to say I don’t have a very imposing nature. I just talk to people and it’s never been difficult for me to…have a sexual experience with someone or just like approach people. Talk to them. Make friends. And, you know, all throughout my life, it’s been very easy for me to have sex and things like that. And when I was first single, I embraced it and I went for it. But then I stopped giving a shit because I got past that phase and I really want to be…sex became less important maybe because I was out of that phase of a breakup where you just are free and you try things. Within that time period I was traveling a lot and I was doing things that I know is difficult that are difficult to admit. Just because I mentioned earlier about being attracted to trans people. I had no idea how to…where to…you know,..how to meet trans people. Except for like, you know, the like illegal way.

[00:48:30] CHRIS: Oh, wow.

[00:48:32] CALLER: Oh, I don’t know if that’s obvious, if you know what I mean.

[00:48:36] CHRIS: Meaning a…money exchanged for sex type situation.

[00:48:42] CALLER: That’s correct.

[00:48:44] CHRIS: Oh, wow.

[00:48:46] CALLER: You know, it’s just one of those things where, like, I knew it was there. It wasn’t, I don’t know. Those are, those are the examples of things where I struggle with and sometimes it feels like this beautiful sense of exploration and sometimes it feels like; I mentioned before about fidelity and like cheating on all the girlfriends I had in the past. Never being able to you know, I just like got off on the idea of doing something that was wrong like making out with girls in stairwells in high school. Like sneaking around with my friends girlfriends and things like, I got off on that shit because it was fucked up and I don’t know. And so that’s where, then you take that and you work on that throughout your twenties because that’s what you do. You go fuck yourself over and then you build it back up and then you; and then I tried again, with her and this was different, it was. But then when all was said and done, it wasn’t cause when you when you put that shit on top of the other thing I just said, it’s like that’s where it starts to wonder if sex addiction is a more appropriate term than over excitable or something. I don’t know.

[00:50:03] CHRIS: Yeah, I was going to ask. I was gonna ask if addiction is a part of this cause, I mean it’s certain that you said you have ADHD and I know those things can tie together. It certainly sounds like you maybe have some, there’s some impulsivity issues in there and maybe you’re chasing some adrenalin rushes, huh?

[00:50:22] CALLER: For sure and that’s what makes me feel like it’s more of an addiction based thing than it is just a, I don’t know, issue. Where does it end? You know, because it’s something that I’ve explored with my therapist to a degree, but it’s also something that I, it’s not, it doesn’t rule my life all the time. It’s changed so much since I was younger that I don’t feel concerned about it anymore. And, you know, I don’t know. I mean, what’s so horrible about hiring a sex worker? But I still feel shame. And I’m nervous right now thinking about people identifying me and knowing that I’ve done that you know, that makes me anxious.

[00:51:03] CHRIS: Well I’ll say this. Let me let me say this because here’s what I’m wrapping my head around is I don’t judge sex workers. And you know I’ve talked to some on this show, one on one. They’re human beings. One thing I will say is my understanding, and I’m no expert, my understanding is that. How would I put it, in the trans community, there..may be…there’s a reputation for same sex work that maybe is rooted in the fact that it is such an extremely marginalized community where there’s fewer options. If that makes sense

[00:51:41] CALLER: I’m sorry, that is what?

[00:51:03] CHRIS: That the trans community faces such marginalization that sometimes people might become sex workers because there’s not many other options might be the fear. That maybe, maybe it’s a type of sex work and I don’t want to judge and I want to paint with a broad brush but the fear would be that in that community, which has faced a lot of struggle and a lot of, like I said, marginalization that you worry that people are backed into a corner, but whom am I to say? I don’t know. I didn’t meet the person you were with.

[00:52:17] CALLER: I agree. I will say this, one of the hardest things about it. When I, I didn’t want to fetishize someone

[00:52:26] CHRIS: Yes!

[00:52:27] CALLER: That brave and that able to keep…I was 30 years old and just being able to admit to myself that I was attracted to it and that was so hard. Then I think about people who have been incapable of feeling comfortable for their entire lives because of this, of the socialization of gender and something I’ve never had to deal with and it’s something I’ve never seen firsthand and I just was very cautious. I didn’t want to fetishize someone that was just living their goddamn life. I was scared to indulge in anyway and I think that was one thing that made the idea of a, of a sex worker so attractive because, you know, it was someone that I didn’t have to, I was afraid to offend them and I was afraid to do the wrong thing or maybe be disrespectful. But, you know, it’s funny because I’m sure I was the only person that she saw that night that before and afterwards had a conversation with her about life and who she really was. It wasn’t that kind of situation where I assume that happened very often.

[00:53:51] CHRIS: Wow. Wow. This one took some turns. I also want to put out there that underrated look out catalog entries Servotron.

[00:54:07] CALLER: Oh, I don’t know that one

[00:54:11] CHRIS: You don’t know Servotron? So a bunch of the guys from Man or Astro Man pretending they were robots; writing songs about robots taking over the world. It’s really great.

[00:54:21] CALLER: Oh cool. I like that thing that happened every once in a while they had that band where they just wore masks. What was that band called? They had that song Money Money 2020

[00:54:32] CHRIS: Haha, there are a lot of weirdo bands. Anyway, let’s focus back up. I was just trying to break the tension by bringing up Servotron. Look them up. “I Sing, the body, cybernetic;” a big hit, as they say. So this is, there’s some aspect I’m listening to you and you know what; sexual freedom is an important thing. I think there’s a lot of people whose heads get messed up because they are trained to stuff their impulses and their desires deep down out of shame in that I think that messes people’s heads up and it’s dumb. But it also sounds like you’re maybe putting yourself in some truly impulsive situations that even some of the things you said since you were a kid, it sounds like there’s a pattern of behavior here that’s not necessarily the healthiest. And you know that.

[00:55:28] CHRIS: [music transition] You know what, I’m going to go ahead and say, let’s take a break there because things got very tense. Very unexpected a the gate, the flood gates have broken. As you can imagine in the rest of this call, we got a lot to deal with now. Also, I brought up Servotron one of the underrated weirdo bands of the 90s.

Check them out. Also, check out our advertisers who are coming up, you guys. They’ve got products, they’ve got services, they’ve got promo codes. Use the promo codes, if you’re so inclined. Helps Beautiful Anonymous when you do. We’ll be back right after this with more phone call.

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[00:57:21] CHRIS: [music transition] Thanks again to all of our sponsors for helping us bring this show to the world. Now let’s finish off the phone call.

[00:57:28] CHRIS: Even some of the things you said since you are a kid, it sounds like there’s a pattern of behavior here that’s not necessarily the healthiest. And you know that.

[00:57:36] CALLER: Yeah. I mean, for sure, that’s kind of where it all comes. That’s where the idea comes from is that, you know, I’m like because I couldn’t admit to myself or because I didn’t know how to do it and I didn’t have the guts to just do it or whatever it was I did things that was, I mean, you see me doing that and with her, with that situation specifically, is something we’re like; you are putting yourself at risk. I mean, it’s illegal, you know, if I did that and it happened to me, I couldn’t do my job. Probably at least not in the same way. So it could have damaging effects and you know, that’s not my fault, but it shouldn’t be that way. It shouldn’t be something that is so illegal. It should be something that I mean, I don’t have any extreme or really fleshed out opinions on the politics but it seems a little strange that it would be illegal for someone to sell their own body if they want to but it’s not that simple. A lot of people are coming from very hard situations and like have no choice and that’s fucked up; but I don’t know. I don’t understand it and I don’t begin to but I did it in the most respectful way I knew how. But it’s still putting myself in a situation that’s dangerous to feed an impulse that…I barely understand about myself and that’s pretty addiction, that seems like something that people do when they’re addicted to things.

[00:59:19] CHRIS: Well, even you just say. I mean, you saying that when you were a kid, you liked to sneak off into a hallway and make out because you might get caught or that you’ve made out with people who you knew the boyfriends, right? I think you used some phrase like I would get off on stuff that felt bad or was bad to do it. And I get it. I get it but it certainly sounds like you’re hitting your 30s now and that you might be doubling down on that.

[00:59:52] CALLER: Maybe, but there’s a lot about it that I understand now that I didn’t know then.

[00:59:57] CHRIS: Of course and I hope that is true. But there’s something you said; you’ve put people in a situation in the past where I would imagine you’ve messed up some of your own relationships and you hurt some ex-girlfriends, I would imagine.

[01:00:12] CALLER: Absolutely.

[01:00:13] CHRIS: All of that just throws your whole life into chaos over and over again and that’s what I think is so concerning to me. No judgment of the feelings you’re feeling or the desires you’re acting on. But I will just express to you my friend, the nervous interrupter, a real concern that this side of your psyche when you act on it, you act on it in a way that’s like a wrecking ball and that’s dangerous.

[01:00:44] CALLER: I agree with you and I think that that is something that I’ve already begun to figure out because like I said, there was that phase after the relationship where I was very excited about trying new things and then that led me to do other things. So then the other aspect of it is since then, being able to say those things to myself. To say to myself that I’m attracted to that kind of people and that there is no one thing and then being able say that aloud to people that I respected and then to be able to just say it in conversation like it didn’t matter cause it doesn’t. That, I think may have contributed to a lot of the ways that I was in the past. So then it kind of gave me a bit of clarity to just be able to say it and just be able to admit it and then understand it as something. Oh, like what’s so bad about it or horrible? I think just being able to do that made me realize that a lot of the ways that it scared me; that I was that way have become far more manageable since I admitted to myself that I had just a nonconventional idea of love and sex.

[01:02:10] CHRIS: Well, I think that’s very eye opening. So you’re saying the fact that you had some feelings that were unspoken and unacted upon meant that the way you did act on the feelings even close to them had to be kept a little underground. And a little secret.

[01:02:27] CALLER: That’s why I was doing the things that I was doing and sneaking around because I was afraid of the sexual urges and what they meant. Being able to admit that there was a different way of it and add on you know, years of learning from mistakes. It just it made it easier to understand that and then you know, one of the most defining revelations of my life. I mean, I’ve changed so much just from being able to admit that and I would never would have done that if I hadn’t left my ex. And that’s a wonderful thing and you know, I wish to high heaven that she didn’t hate me, but people come and go, I guess.

[01:03:11] CHRIS: Yeah, yeah.

[01:03:17] CALLER: I feel like I’ve changed a lot just from having understood it and I still think it’s probably something that I should talk to my therapist more about. And at least I’m aware enough now to know when it’s; I know the worst that it could be. Yeah, I know the worst that I could do to myself with any of it and how self-destructive it can be and I don’t know. I do worry about someday being able to make a decision that silly in a future relationship. But I think that so much has changed since then that just admitting it has made me able to see a future where I can be with someone. Absolutely. And not be hiding things from them. Yeah. In fact, that would have to come out almost immediately. You know, at this point, all of the things I’ve done, like my current ex girlfriend doesn’t even know that she was the only girlfriend that I didn’t cheat on because I could never admit to her.

[01:04:20] CHRIS: Wow. Wow!

[01:04:22] CALLER: Because I was afraid that she would see me for the, you know, this like fuckin monster that sometimes I look at myself as; like this piece of shit that just cheats on everybody and doesn’t give a fuck about anybody except himself and then runs away on tour and sucks off and nobody, you know, can’t find me. Bye..

[01:04:42] CHRIS: I’m glad to here you’re sorting it out because again, the last thing I want to be is an armchair shrink..at all.

[01:04:54] CALLER: I get that.

[01:04:55] CHRIS: But it doesn’t sound far off from how other people talk about other types of addictions. I wouldn’t be surprised if you check a lot of boxes for the whole sex addiction thing. But I think so much of it makes sense that we are talking about how we basically live in a very, very puritanical society and culture. And we try to keep things in these boxes and the boxes, simply put, do not work. They probably never have and they’re working progressively less than they ever have. And so much of why these things have to come in a form of sort of acting out in a dangerous way is because you grow up feeling completely uncomfortable with these feelings that you don’t choose. That you don’t dictate to yourself that comes down to your biology, chemistry or your inclinations that you choose along with. Either way, if you don’t spend so much time feeling like these things are shameful then you don’t have to hide them. And that means you don’t have to hide them from other people. That means you don’t have to cheat. That does it. That means you don’t have to do things in secrecy because of what does this say about me overall? No one else can know. I think it’s so funny, we spent so much time talking about punk-rock because isn’t that what punk-rock is about? Like fuck; fuck society and fuck what’s normal. Go figure out who you are. Do it loud and proud.

[01:06:21] CALLER: Can I tell you something that fucked me up. I think about it and it fucks me up a lot?  This idea that I said before. I come from this, when I was coming up, things were a lot different and so much of who I am. You know, immigrants, patriarchal shit that I mentioned earlier than the punk-rock shit that was still very different back then. So much of who I am was because I didn’t have a father. So I look to all the fuckin singers, these lead singers, to give me advice like all their best lines that people have tattooed across their collar bones. Like those were my fucking fathers. It’s like, you know that Jim Carrey movie, what’s that one with Tim and Matthew Broderick who gets raised by the television

[01:07:03] CHRIS: The Cable Guy?

[01:07:05] CALLER: The Cable Guy. I don’t know why I couldn’t think of it.

[01:07:07] CHRIS: Another Judd Apatow production. My whole life goes back to Judd Apatow over and over.

[01:07:14] CALLER: Haha. I feel there’s like a lot of people who can say that. And that’s what Freaks and Greeks, it seems like a wonderful teacher. I’m grateful for him. Anyway, I feel like I was in a lot of ways raised by the fucking music I was into and that’s a part of who I am and it’s in my soul so fucking deeply. And then I feel slighted by it. Now I’m 30 years old and I’m only now able to admit to myself and I don’t mean to put it on. It’s my responsibility and that’s that but, you know, I just feel like I am afraid of the fact that I am the age that I am and that I’m only now being able to become comfortable and all the waste I’ve laid in all of it. It’s like I don’t know. I feel like if I was ever, I guess I was going to say, I feel like if I was born 10 years later, than I would have had an easier time understanding who I was. Who the fuck understands who they are? First of all, and second of all, how many times have I ever said to myself if I was born 10 years earlier, I would have felt better or something, I don’t know. You know, I think I’m just confused and I think I’m just working something out.

[01:08:19] CHRIS: Yeah. You’re working a lot out. That’s okay. We all are. I tell you what…

01:08:24] CALLER: I’m also very alone though. I don’t have a lot of friends. Well, I do, but then none of them are here.  None are where I live. I spend most of my time alone. I think it’s difficult. You know, like I said, man, you caught me, I have to imagine we only have a little while left.

[01:08:42] CHRIS: We have 6 minutes left

[01:08:48] CALLER: Fly too far away and going to do a thing. But yeah, you know, You’re the only person that I’ve spoken to out loud except for my neighbor in case. I called my mom yesterday. That’s it.

[01:09:12] CHRIS: Dude, you’re depressed.

[01:09:15] CALLER: Yeah, for sure Chris.

[01:09:16] CHRIS: Your freaked out. You freaked out about where your head’s at, you’re depressed.

[01:09:20] CALLER: Can I tell you another thing, though, that I want to say just so that it’s not just how much a pile of shit I’ve been through since my relationship ended. Since my relationship ended I also quit smoking cigarettes. I smoked a pack a day for over 10 years and I never tried to quit once. Quit cold turkey a few months ago. I’m up four months now.

[01:09:38] CHRIS: Nice. Congrats.

[01:09:20] CALLER: Thank you. And then I also started like going to the gym and watching my body just sheerly out of boredom. But I think like today and the past few days, I’ve been having a very hard time inside my head. I mentioned earlier about like having the massive revelation of just being able to admit some things to myself. The time since I’ve been alone here; a lot of good things have happened.

[01:10:11] CHRIS: That’s good.

[01:10:12] CALLER: But, you know, the past few days have been oddly difficult enough. Maybe that’s just that’s just how depression works sometimes. Sometimes your just fucked.

[01:10:24] CHRIS: Yeah. In my experience it is. I’ll tell you what, too. Here’s another thing I want to say. You brought up something before about man, I’m 31 and I’m just figuring this stuff up now and I’m kind of like beating myself about that. I will say that there’s you know, there’s obviously some truth to that and you can’t get time back. But in the same way that we’re saying, like it’s kind of, you know, this idea that you have to be option A or option B is exposing itself as more and more bullshit as time goes on. I would also just put out there for you not to beat yourself up about being 31. Because, you know, a lot of people never figured it out or a lot of people you know, a lot of people have like struggles that they should be figuring out that they opt not to figure out and then it just kind of tears their whole life down. So 31 aint that old, especially these days.

[01:11:17] CALLER: I agree. I think that I give myself a lot of shit like my best days are behind me and I think that that’s one of the biggest things that stands in my way. I think I’m in my own way a lot. I think that, you know, as I say, give people advice. Like I’m someone who I think that people turn to for advice all the time. Like I’m somebody, I love helping my friends and them constantly calling me whenever they need to and I listen to them and I tell them so many things. They tell people all the time. You know how we say nine, nine times out of ten the only thing standing between you and what you want is you and not what you want. That’s something that I like said once and I remembered and was like, that’s good advice. I taught myself all the time and I tell people all the time because it’s a wonderful thing to say and think and that’s like something that you know. Here I am, like, I’m just in my own fucking way. But it’s not always this way and it’s strange that we would have this conversation today because today is probably the worst I’ve felt in a very long time and I’ve had such good experiences. So many good experiences recently in the past, like seven, you know, seven months since I’ve been single, I’ve had mostly good times. A lot of really positive experiences and then for some reason the past few days. I’ve been in a state of mind that’s interesting for a beautiful Beautiful Anonymous podcast.

[01:12:51] CHRIS: I’m really sorry to hear it. Sorry to hear that you’re hurting.

[01:12:55] CALLER: Thank you, man. I think that’s all that. The only thing that really helps, you know, actually, one of my really good friends is in a band that people love. And I was talking to her last night about depression and I was about to text her when I got the notification of your tweet saying about the call in to be on the show. And I was about to text her and tell her that last night when she gave me empathy and shared her problems with me, it made me realize like, one of the only things that helps with depression is when someone that you trust tells you that they’re also fucked up because, you know, seeing other people be OK makes you wonder that, like you’re not like you can’t be or something like there’s always going to be something wrong with you and you’ll always be fucked up and you may as well just feel fucked up. I know it does to me and her telling me that she was OK or that she was fucked up and not OK made everything. It meant it was the only thing that made me feel better. And then I watched that Gary Shandling documentary and cried. But I was about to text her and then you interupted me so Thanks, Chris.

[01:14:02] CHRIS: Well, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry that I got in the way. We have one minute left. I want to know if you want to respond to what you just said and say, you know what I found out in my travels and not not just through this show and not just because I’ve spoken publicly about my own problems, but I feel like you could you could talk. You could ask anybody at any given time. Are you doing okay? And it’s just a total crapshoot of where the answer is, yes or no. And it shifts all the time for all of us. And when this shit is at its worst, you feel so alone. And that’s one of the first little tricks it plays on you is convincing you you’re alone. You’re far from alone. We’re all fucked up. Everybody’s united. We’re not. None of us are fucked up in the same way. But a whole lot of us at any given time are real fucked up. And we gotta remember that because at the very least, just like punk rock strength in numbers. All the freaks in the alley.

[01:15:01] CALLER: I agree wholeheartedly. It makes a world of difference. It’s so easy to get, so easy to believe that you’re not alone. And I know that. But it’s the art of being reminded of. It is the only thing that helps sometimes.

[01:15:14] CHRIS: Hey, we’re about to run out of time. I hope you feel better.

[01:15:17] CALLER: Oh, thank you for doing what you do, man.

[01:15:18] CHRIS: Thank you. And I hope you know. You know, I hope you figure it all out in a way that that’s not destructive to you and to others.

[01:15:23] PHONE RING

     THEME MUSIC

[01:15:24] CHRIS: And I hope you can embrace yourself and be true to yourself and unashamed and that that lack of shame gives a much better foundation to stand on Also, how much does this suck that Ben Wiesel went nuts and we can’t like Screeching Weasel anymore because the song is still catchy. God damn it. Caller, I really meant it. Thank you for calling and I so genuinely hope that you sort this out. You know, you had said a few times throughout the call that you want to talk more with the shrink about this and I always give that a thumbs up. Everybody knows. Keep opening up about it. I hope you keep figuring yourself out. I hope you keep seeing where your impulses are coming from, finding a healthy way to act on them, the healthy way. Most important thing, right? Cause when it’s out there and once we shake off all the shame and the guilt and stuff like that, so much love to you. Thank you. Jared O’Connell and Harry Nelson in the booth. Thank you to Justin ? for helping me organize my life. Thank you, Shell Shag for the music. I go out on the road, I do stand up comedy all the time. Maybe I’m coming to your town.  Rate, review, subscribe on Apple podcast. It really helps so much when you do. See you next time. Beautiful Anonymous.

[MUSIC TRANSITION]

[NEXT EPISODE PREVIEW]

[01:16:50] CHRIS: Next time on Beautiful Anonymous, perhaps the busiest person I have ever talked to.

[01:16:58] CHRIS: You have a four year old son, you’re going to school full time, and you’re working a job that makes you cry, full time

[01:17:05] CALLER: Yes.

01:17:07] CHRIS: Wow, do you like a lot of online courses? How do you how do you juggle all that?

[01:17:10] CALLER: So I go to school three times a week for three classes and then I do two online classes. My son’s Dad has him like three times a week. So I go to school those days that he’s with his Dad.

[01:17:26] CHRIS: You must be exhausted.

[01:17:10] CALLER: Yeah, lots of coffee and espresso shots.

[01:17:36] CHRIS: That’s next time on Beautiful Anonymous.