EP. 54 — Chris Gethard

Jameela: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil. I hope that this finds you well. I am fine. I’ve had to start exercising just to cope with the world. I have been doing it more and more regularly. Last year, I started slowly, slowly walking whilst listening to like Harry Styles and and various other people who make happy music just sort of lift my mood. And this year I’m now really getting into it. All kinds of stupid exercises. The stupider, the better. The less it feels like exercise, the better. The baggier my clothes are, the better the further away I am from a mirror. None of this leggings and cropped top shit in front of a mirror where I have to sit there analyzing myself with my eating disorder body dysmorphic brain. I just think that’s just torturous and so infuriating. And I hate the way that exercise has been so deeply entrenched in vanity and taken away from the people and turned into this sort of special club for the super elite, super thin, super toned, already athletic people, rather than just anyone who wants to deal with their mental health. So I’m trying to get involved in a way that makes me feel comfortable and doesn’t trigger any of my eating disorder issues of the past. I hope that you’re giving that a shot, too, because it really does help. Everything is so chaotic right now. I just can’t I I actually just can’t. I’m not and I’m not going to I’m not going to talk about it right now, right here. Because if you’ve probably come to this podcast for a bit of a break and that that’s fine. So as you know, if you’ve been following me for a while listening to this podcast for a while, I’m obsessed. I’m fucking obsessed with mental health because it’s been the greatest journey of my life. And I say journey because I really wanted to say struggle. But then I panicked and I didn’t. I struggle because I was worried that then a negative connotation to mental health and I didn’t want to stigmatize it. But also, it’s a fucking struggle sometimes, isn’t it? It’s just shit, it’s just a big old bowl of piss that’s really difficult to swim through, quite an image, but I don’t think it does stigmatize mental health to say that it’s really hard. I think it just shows how brave and strong we all are for carrying on through the day and getting out of bed and brushing our teeth, which sometimes I don’t do, as I’ve admitted on this podcast before, because I get too depressed and self sort of hating to even do the basic things to look after myself. Anyway. So if you are a person who is obsessed with mental health and wants to talk about it with as many people as possible, then this podcast is a perfect the perfect vessel for you. I am that person. I am someone who just wants to talk about mental health all the time from all the different angles, all the different backgrounds, with all of the different people who will speak to me about it. And today’s guest is a master at speaking openly and un-judgmentally about mental health. His name is Chris Gethard. He is a stand up comedian. He is a TV host. You might know him from the Chris Gathered live show. He’s also got some wonderful, wonderful specials, like a special on HBO called Career Suicide, where he talks in extreme detail about suicidal ideation and depression. I will also offer you a big trigger warning that that is something that we do touch on in this podcast. And we talk at length about some of the darker moments in life, but also some of the lighter, happier moments. There’s so many places that we went during this episode that surprised me. And I can’t express to you how passionate I am about having men, even the straight white CIS men coming onto this podcast and talking to me about their mental health, talking to me about their feelings. It’s very, very important to me that we have everyone on this earth feel safe to speak about the way that they feel and how they are struggling and how their sickness or their sadness or their pain manifests. And I think the only way out of the division of this world is to make sure that we do try to understand each other and make space for each other and be sympathetic and empathetic and and listen to different perspectives. And so I’m always very grateful when a man will come onto this podcast and talk to me in depth about his feelings, because that’s really hard to come by. Even now, men are so. God, they’re so harmed by toxic masculinity, so harmed by our society, that makes them feel like they can’t come on and be vulnerable. And so to have a man come on and just be so open and honest with me and talk to me about being bullied as a kid or talk to me about having an incredibly difficult childhood. Talk to me about the shame of mental illness and all of his lowest moments with no fear or reticence around being sensitive. It’s just such a joy, and Chris is also a new dad. We talk about being a dad in the pandemic. We talk about being a dad when you have mental health issues. And we just kind of track through his entire life’s journey with depression, with suicidal ideation and and all of his coping methods to pull himself out. And we also touch on something that I think is really important. If you heard my episode of Scarlett Curtis, it’s also a subject we touched on briefly there, which is that a lot of us had big old dips last year. Or maybe you’re still having one right now. And we feel disappointed in ourselves, maybe because we’ve done loads of work or made loads of effort towards pulling ourselves up and out of the deepest dark depths of mental health. And we feel really disappointed in ourselves sometimes when we slip again and we make bad decisions or we can’t get out of bed, that we can’t function properly. We give ourselves such a hard time and we we feel as though all that hard work was for nothing and we’ve undone it all. And we’ve taken one step forward, 10 steps back. And that is fake news, because actually, if you think about it, I bet you are, or at least you will be able to. I bet. I bet we pull ourselves out of it so much faster. I know I do every single time I fall. I I get back to my coping mechanisms quicker because I have them and I learned them from every other time I’ve fallen or failed before, and so I’ve stopped giving myself such a fucking hard time when those dips come and I look at it as, OK, you know what, this is shit. But I have the tools to now get out of this. I know who to turn to. I know what to do. So please, please, please don’t give yourself a hard time. Chris has done extensive work on himself over the course of his life and struggled really badly during the pandemic, even within the last seven months. And he talks to me about that and the feelings around it. And it was just so soothing and un-judgemental. It was such a safe space. It’s such a lovely conversation. And I felt very seen and heard by him. And as I said, what a breath of fucking fresh air to hear this conversation with a man. And so I hope you enjoy it and maybe you’ll send it on to a man, you know, who’s struggling, who can’t talk to anyone about his feelings, or maybe he’s struggling and he’s repressed. He can’t even talk to you about it. I hope this helps. I hope this leaves you with insight. Chris is a really, really special, thoughtful, cool man. And I’m really glad that I got to have this conversation with him because I’m a big fan. So let me know what you think afterwards. Send me DMs. Write comments. I’d love to know what you think. This is the excellent Chris Gethard. [00:08:22][502.3]

Jameela: [00:08:40] Chris Gethard, welcome to I Weigh. How are you? [00:08:43][3.0]

Chris: [00:08:44] I’m doing pretty good. It’s a very nice day here in New Jersey and I was able to take a walk earlier. So that goes a long way. [00:08:50][6.1]

Jameela: [00:08:50] Yeah, it’s amazing how that’s become still such a luxury to us. I hope that we hang on to that feeling of gratitude and appreciation once the world goes back to normal. [00:09:01][11.1]

Chris: [00:09:02] Like I am with you. I feel like there’s so many days where I just like, take a deep breath. And I’ve been reading the news all day and I just go, oh, my son’s playing with trucks. Let me just focus on that for a minute. Just playing with trucks. And that’s cool and adorable. And oh, look, the grass is greener. The sky is blue. Those things are still true as well. [00:09:23][21.1]

Jameela: [00:09:24] And you have a two year old. How’s it been having a two year old in a lockdown of a pandemic? [00:09:29][5.7]

Chris: [00:09:30] It’s pretty wild. Like he’s a bundle of energy. And especially because I live in the Northeast, I never I never took the plunge and moved to Los Angeles. So once it starts snowing, it’s like you’re just inside with a two year old every day. No babysitters, no playdates, no no respite. So is pretty intense. But we got through it. [00:09:53][22.3]

Jameela: [00:09:54] You got through it. And and how has as someone who’s spoken so vocally and beautifully and hilariously at times about struggling with mental health pretty much all of your life, or at least since you were, you know, a small kid, how has it been on your mental health being in lockdown? [00:10:13][19.6]

Chris: [00:10:14] Well, first of all, thank you for saying that the kind words about how I’ve talked about it, that’s very appreciated, it’s been OK. I feel like I’ve actually been very proud of myself because I feel like I’ve been on top of my stuff quite well the past few years and. Obviously, there’s been some stresses and I kind of have enough going on, like I don’t have financial stress, we were able to buy a new house at the beginning of the year. So that’s been very fun to kind of get that going. And my son is a joy. So I have all these great things going for me and that helps a lot. And that being said, I still around I think September, October was about to commit myself to a hospital one day. So like, I hit a wall one day where I was like, oh boy, I might need to might need to head in that direction. But a [00:11:08][53.8]

Jameela: [00:11:08] psychiatric hospital, just to be clear. [00:11:10][1.5]

Chris: [00:11:10] Oh, yes, yes. Yeah. It wasn’t like I broke my femur or something like that. My, my it was my mind that was breaking. I was like looking up, oh, what’s the nearest mental hospital to me? And luckily my my my shrink was able to get on the phone, like, right in that moment and kind of spend a few hours talking me through it. So very lucky. I have someone who is willing to do the last minute, hey, can you get on the phone right now or should I go to a hospital? And she got me out of it. That’s scary to say because I’m like God, generally. I’ve been doing great and that’s true. And I still hit that point this year. So I can imagine how people who who don’t feel like they’re on top of it have been feeling. [00:11:51][41.4]

Jameela: [00:11:52] Yeah, and it’s a it’s a weird feeling, isn’t it, when you have been in a long journey of recovery. I mean, you have in your special, which is called Career Suicide, where you talk a lot about your mental health history and also your relationship with suicide, um, and how you feel about it or some of the lowest points you’ve had. You’ve been on such a long trajectory of medication therapy, improving your life, distancing yourself from things that are bad for you, like walking towards things that are good for you and make you feel good. It’s it’s it’s odd, isn’t it, when you unexpectedly slip and fall again, once you think, no, I’m good now, I’m solid now I have things under control. It’s it’s, uh, it’s quite a unique feeling of like, fuck. It’s almost worse than the first time you break the times you break after that kind of like shit. I thought I was beyond this, which just speaks to the kind of secret stigmas that we still carry around our own mental health. You know, I mean, you think that there’s no such thing. [00:12:56][63.9]

Chris: [00:12:57] It’s definitely. I felt so disappointed in myself because I’ve never there’s been a few times where I’ve been right on the edge of being hospitalized and I’ve never actually been in a psychiatric patient in a psychiatric hospital. And I felt myself going, oh, no, I never did this. And I always and I realized, like, oh, that was always a point of pride. And then I’m sitting here feeling all this disappointment and I’m going, oh, I guess even someone who’s shouted to the hills about how I’m not going to apologize for this and hate the stigma surrounding it, even I am stigmatizing this idea of never, never going to a hospital and being such a good thing. And I’m going on. And that makes me feel so awful to realize I’m still hanging on to some of the stigmas are setting these kind of invisible standards for myself in lines I don’t want to cross. And that’s kind of been the whole point of so much of the stuff I’ve talked about is how unhealthy that is messed with my head. How are you doing anyway? I don’t think I’ve asked you how you’re doing. [00:13:58][60.6]

Jameela: [00:13:58] I’m all right now, but I had a tricky time last year. Last February, I was really struggling with my mental health and I had to go on medication and I remember how much I resisted the medication, but I was going to literally die if I didn’t take it. And it was then that I realized, oh, I go out and I preach all this shit about mental health and I go on and I tell everyone about the importance of it and how dangerous stigma is and how you should do whatever you have to do to protect yourself. And there I was resisting this very common and very good, positive thing that is medication that was helping me survive. And, you know, I used to be super judgmental. No, no, no, no. I must treat the cause, not the symptom. And a medication will just mask the symptoms. And I won’t ever get to the cause. That was bullshit. I was ignorant. I was fucking idiot. Actually, sometimes the symptoms are so overwhelming. You need the drugs to be able to to to even find the cause in the first place. You need to just calm down. Same thing with hospital. Like, you know, sometimes you just need all hands on deck, like all the support you can get because you can’t function. So you’re not going to be able to investigate the cause in that moment because you can’t cope like everything is on fire. [00:15:05][66.8]

Chris: [00:15:06] I’m with you and I’ve been on the drugs for many years, decade plus. And I was always so shocked because I was on the same page as you like. Oh, here’s a million reasons why I think they could actually be counterproductive. And then when I got on them I go, oh, at least in my case, it’s different for everybody else. I’m sitting there going, oh, all the all they’re doing is buying me breathing room like they’re giving me. They’re giving me the ability when I when I sense the storm clouds are rolling in, instead of just having that blindside me, I’m sitting here going, oh, I can sense a day or so out that things are getting bad. Let me really start buckling down, dealing with it, thinking about it, making sure things are in place so that I can get through it and tell my wife, tell the people I love. You know, back when I was working hosting a TV show, it’s OK. Here’s an inner circle of people who I work with. Let them know that things might hit the fan, that I need some distance of time and go, OK, the medications just buy me time. That’s all they’re doing. What a what a beautiful luxury to have. [00:16:12][65.3]

Jameela: [00:16:12] 100%. And I just want to make sure that I cap this part of the conversation by saying that while there is shame that can sometimes come with slipping and falling again, after you thought that you were up permanently, after you’ve gone through all the work you’ve done, the therapy, you’ve taken, the meds, maybe you’re still on the meds and then you still crumble. What I want you to hold onto is that you haven’t failed and focus on the fact that it might be easier this time to get back up because you have the tools from the last time you broke. And that’s how I’ve now decided to choose. I have now finally accepted after how severe last year was for me that I may never be bulletproof, you know, from this and maybe none of us ever will. And you can’t predict what’s going to happen or how you’re going to feel or how you’re going to handle it. But what you can do is take note of the speed at which it’s not just about speed, but at the way in which you were able to handle it better than the first time it happened. Every time it happened, you grow, you develop more tools, you know, faster. And furthermore, who to contact, what to do. You you can pick yourself back up quicker. And I think that that’s really, really valuable and important for you to remember about yourself so that you don’t feel like a failure. [00:17:25][72.3]

Chris: [00:17:26] I think a lot about how I think a lot of us in our heads, we have this internal monologue where we go, oh, I’m going to conquer something for you and I. This is a major factor. But with other people, it’s career that’s been an element of for me as well and a million different things where we go. I’m going to go out there and set out on this journey and I’m going to conquer it and I’m going to win and defeat it. And then you assume there’s going to be this moment where it’s like and then the credits roll and the triumphant music is blaring and the hero won in the end. Right. And then you get older, you go, oh, no, like the credits don’t roll. You just you just keep going and then you screw up again and you get knocked down a couple pegs and then you dust yourself off and you climb back up those pegs. And there’s no moment where, like there’s no moment of victory. Like movies are awfully convenient because the story stops. But all those characters went and became gods of their forties and got depressed again at some point too. [00:18:25][58.3]

Jameela: [00:18:26] A hundred percent. I’ve always wanted to make a movie of after ever after. That shows what, you know, seven years into the marriage is like or what getting that big job is like and the pressures that come with it and how you get, you know, how much you fuck everything up and then you get blamed for everything because you’re the boss. There’s so many things that we just never see the other side of. And so we spend our lives on this kind of rat race towards something that isn’t going to fill the void. What were things that you thought would fill the void that didn’t? [00:18:52][26.3]

Chris: [00:18:53] For me a lot of it was career accomplishment. I spent a lot of time going back to when I was in high school, I was that kid who I never got the best grades I got, I got good grades, never the best grades. But I was the kid where it was like I was in the school play. I was in the marching band. I was in the debate club. I was in the Panasonic science competition. I was in this. I was in that. It’s pretty much like go, go, go relentlessly. Try to prove yourself, try to do things. And then that really extended into my career too, with comedy is always that can I be doing another show? Can I what’s the highest level show I can get on? What’s the gigs? Who needs a writing pack. Can I do this. Can I do that? And I was getting you know, as as one does, the more time I put it in, the more I dedicated myself, the more I, I proved that I could work at a certain level. I’d be I’d be getting gigs, I’d be getting opportunities behind the scenes, acting, whatever it was going on the road and. Always, always assumed, like, oh, if I can prove to the world through professional accomplishment that I’m worth something then they will all have to admit that that they were wrong for all the doubts and this, that, and then you take a step back and you go, oh, there’s a very important word in which I just said, which is they and then I had this moment where I’m accomplishing all this stuff and it’s not solving my loneliness. It’s not making me happy. I go, oh, wait, there was no they doubting me. It was me. It was me doubting me. And sure, when I was a kid and there were bullies and there were teachers who rolled their eyes at me and grew up in a town that was, you know, the area I was in was pretty working class. And it wasn’t really like a thing. When you say I want to go be an artist, that wasn’t the most important thing. So maybe that was all true when I was 15 years old. But some of those teachers are dead. A lot of those kids who rolled their eyes at me, they’re just like raising their kids in the suburbs and selling insurance or whatever they do. And they haven’t thought about me in 10 years, 12 years, 15 years. [00:21:12][139.3]

Jameela: [00:21:12] Oh, my God, that’s so true. That’s so funny. [00:21:15][2.4]

Chris: [00:21:16] I’m on this quest to prove everybody wrong [00:21:18][2.2]

Jameela: [00:21:19] and they’re not thinking about you yeah. [00:21:20][1.2]

Chris: [00:21:21] They’re not thinking about me. And the only person sitting here doubting me and beating myself up and hanging on to that stuff is me. How that’s that was a lot of layers to unwrap as that became clear. Like all my self hate, all my self-doubt, it’s not going away by anybody else’s external reaction to what I do. It’s still just going to be sitting in my guts, causing trouble in my brain like it was yesterday. It doesn’t matter what job I get, I’m still going to be miserable. The bully I had in eighth grade is not going to be impressed that I just did a guest spot on Parks and Recreation. He doesn’t care. [00:22:00][39.3]

Jameela: [00:22:00] But he might be really impressed that you were on the I Weigh podcast. So because I know that your buddy is a big fan of this podcast [00:22:08][7.8]

Chris: [00:22:10] There were many. There were many. So I actually heard I had a friend who was in a bar one night in New Jersey. This is when I still lived in New York and I came on the TV in this bar. And the guy he said the guy started like pounding his mug on the bar, going like, that’s my boy, that’s our guy from the neighborhood. And I’m like, this was a person who I had said prior in life. And I was joking, obviously. But obviously all jokes come from some real emotion. I said if I ever was driving and this guy was crossing the street in front of me, I might hit the gas instead of the brake like that’s how much how much awfulness I associated with this person. And I’m sitting here going not only I’m on this quest to thwart him, he’s one of the main people in my mind. Where am I going to prove that motherfucker wrong. He’s proud of me. He’s actually proud of me. He’s actually expressing pride that we grew up in the same neighborhood. This is the person who I’m in this internal battle against when I’m in my 30s. Get over it, man. It’s about you. It’s not about them. [00:23:15][64.9]

Jameela: [00:23:16] Mine doesn’t come from because I was also super bullied at school and grew up with no money and was just terrorized by other teenagers. And mine doesn’t come in the form of I’m going to prove them wrong. I still in many ways try to keep myself small or feel very self-conscious because I still feel like they’re watching me and judging me and they’re not most of them are just carrying on with their lives. Can I tell a quick story of how stupid this is? [00:23:45][29.3]

Chris: [00:23:46] Absolutely. [00:23:46][0.0]

Jameela: [00:23:46] Ok so I when I was maybe it was like 2016, the beginning of 2016, I’ve moved here. I didn’t ever want to be on television again. I’d gotten all these agents and I really just wanted to be a writer and a deejay. And they were all pushing me towards television. And I was like, I don’t want to be on fucking television again. I did that in the UK. It led me to a nervous breakdown. I really just like I’m I’m not built for the public eye. I just want to be I just want to be a deejay and a fucking writer. And I want you to support me in this decision and stop trying to get me to do stuff on television. And there were, you know, sort of 20 agents all around. They knew that I was coming in to have that conversation. So I feel as though they’d ramped up, you know, they just pull in other agents that you’ve never even met for these big meetings. It was one of those like big Hollywood fishbowl rooms. And and we went downstairs and I and this fishbowl like a big glass window. And so you can see into the reception area of UTA. So as I’m talking and I’m explaining it to everyone and everyone’s pushing back against me saying, you know, you should at least try something on camera in America, don’t give up. You know, you might find something you really enjoy doing. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no. This woman walks in. She’s very beautiful and tall and striking. And she she walks in and she’s walking and slowly into the reception area. And I sort of freeze in the middle of my sentence and I’m like, fucking hell. She looks just like the girl that bullied me really badly at school. I bullied me to the point where I still can’t really look in the mirror and used to write mean things about me on my locker and used to belittle me. I used to turn up at my house with other girls on a Saturday night just to check that I’m in and and tell me that they’re all going out on a night out and then not invite me. They would come over just to show me that they were all going out together. And I was at home watching television with my parents just just fucking just the worst. And used to just belittle me all the time used to say, like ugh when they would walk past me in the lunchroom when I was eating on my own because they the sight of me eating was so disgusting. They just a person who instigated so much vile ostracization of me, I, I was like she looks just like her. That couldn’t be her because. Why? Because she’s in England. Why would she be in Los Angeles in the same building at me as me at the same time it couldn’t possibly be her. And then she stopped walking. When she sees me she fucking puts a hand up and waves at me, at which point I realize it’s fucking her. Oh my God. It’s that fucking bitch from school who terrorized me. So I jumped under the table. I’m thirty years old and I jump under the table in front of all of my managers and all of my agents and I panic. I have like a panic attack on the floor. So my managers are kind of like, look, sounds like what’s going on? What are you doing? And I realized, shit, she can see me. I don’t want her to realize I’m still afraid of her. So I’m so I pick up this like pen and I, I come back up pretending like, oh, I found this pen and I start doing this very kind of like mime act to everyone around. Like, I found the thing I dropped, that’s why I went under the table. I’m starting to panic and they’re just like, what’s going on with you right now? You were in the middle of a sentence. So I explained to them what’s happened and who this woman is and what like she was a part of doing to me at school and how traumatized I still clearly am from it 20 years later. And they’re all immediately horrified. Something that I think is true of, like a lot of agents managers is that they were probably bullied at school. So everyone really identified with me in that moment. They were like, what do you want us to do? Let’s find her name. Let’s fuckin let’s see if we can find out some shit about her. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, I don’t need you to do that. So, like, how do we help you in this moment? How do we support you in this moment? So I was like, it’s really embarrassing, but could you give me a round of applause? [00:27:38][232.2]

Chris: [00:27:40] Oh, ha ha ha ha ha ha. [00:27:41][1.2]

Jameela: [00:27:42] Cos I wanted her to see everyone clapping for me. And they gave me, like, a standing ovation, which was like the nicest thing ever. And I was, like, pretending to wave them down, as if to be like, stop, stop. It’s all very pantomime, very big, very broad that I’m like and I’m just like, sit down. And they’re all like, woo, woo, woo, woo. You know, like fist in the air. Even though nothing’s happened other than me trying to quit now, like walk out the door and they’re just like, I can’t remember if someone said this, but something just like congratulations as I was walking out and I just walked straight past her and out of the building and didn’t. [00:28:27][45.7]

Chris: [00:28:28] Nice did you ever find out why she was there. [00:28:29][1.9]

Jameela: [00:28:30] She’s a fucking director now. [00:28:31][1.0]

Chris: [00:28:32] Uh, boy. [00:28:33][0.7]

Jameela: [00:28:33] Yeah, yeah. That’s not that’s not that’s my point. Just being that that sorry. Just to close that up as that, because I was so moved by how much support they gave me in the moment and how they were willing to like satisfy my ego and do something so pathetic for me without judgment is why I ended up going to The Good Place audition just to placate them, because I felt grateful. [00:28:53][19.7]

Chris: [00:28:54] I was going to ask. I was going to ask you turn around and you’re like, fine, I will give you five auditions. [00:28:57][3.8]

Jameela: [00:28:58] I would say I said one audition, I, I will go to that fucking audition. I was like, I’m not going to fucking get it anyway, but I will go because you did a really nice thing for me and then I fucking got it. And now I’m an actress. All because of that school bully. But I know I. [00:29:10][12.5]

Chris: [00:29:11] And you’re like on a beloved show. [00:29:12][1.2]

Jameela: [00:29:12] Yeah. Sorry to diverge but I’m just showing that like at thirty you are still not bulletproof from your fucking school bullies. [00:29:19][6.9]

Chris: [00:29:20] I got a good one about a bully encounter that this happened a few just like two or three years ago. I was promoting my old TV show, and they told me they wanted me to do a spot on Live with Kelly Ripa. [00:29:38][18.3]

Jameela: [00:29:39] Yeah, and Michael, what was it Michael Strahan at the time or was it? [00:29:43][3.8]

Chris: [00:29:43] No, it was post Strahan. I think Jerry O’Connell was sitting in it. I think now it’s Ryan Seacrest. But it was it was in the interim and which is silly is my TV show is like completely cracked out and insane, but I’m happy to promote it anywhere. And growing up, Live With Regis and Kelly was my mom’s favorite show. She loved that show. I’m like, oh, my mom’s going to love this bla bla bla. So older women do love that show. I grew up with that show and I get a message on Facebook and the name pops up. And as soon as I saw it, I just went like ice cold because it was my history teacher from high school. And. This teacher I had, an older brother, he and I both got bullied, he had it really bad. I’m not going to claim, I think, a lot of why my guard was up so high and a lot of why I think I had so much anger in me [00:30:40][56.9]

Jameela: [00:30:42] And anxiety [00:30:42][0.5]

Chris: [00:30:42] and anxiety was because a lot of my childhood was watching him deal with what he dealt with and then saying, I’m not going to let that happen to me. And overreacting like people are sometimes shocked, like I was the smallest kid in my grade, but I got in fights like I’ve run into. Just this past year, I moved back to Jersey, ran into a high school friend. He goes, I was in the parking lot when you beat the hell out of that guy, John, he’s like, I still remember it. I still tell people that story when your name comes up and I go, What do you remember about that day? And he goes, I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone lose their mind in the moment as much as you lost your mind fighting that kid like. And I was tiny like that. And that was my childhood, you know so. [00:31:24][41.7]

Jameela: [00:31:24] You were on the offense rather than just you on the defense, on the offense. [00:31:28][4.0]

Chris: [00:31:29] I was just like the second I’m sensing that somebody is coming at me. Let’s get it over with. And I might not win, but we are going to expedite this process and you’re going to know how it’s going to go with me. [00:31:39][9.6]

Jameela: [00:31:39] This is like jail, that’s the jail approach. [00:31:40][1.1]

Chris: [00:31:40] Well, I mean the town I grew up in had a lot of flaws in the time I grew up there. I can say that. So my history teacher. You can imagine how much my brother’s name would come up and my my my guard would go up, I get very defensive of myself, protective of him. [00:32:00][20.0]

Jameela: [00:32:01] Was he bullied by teachers as well as kids? [00:32:02][1.4]

Chris: [00:32:04] I mean, he he reacted to a lot of what happened in by just being a complete wise ass and a lunatic. So a lot of the teachers, he was a headache. He was a headache. And a lot of times when I walked into a room and had to prove, hey, I’m not going to be a headache like he was, you know, not in every case, but certain cases. This teacher was someone I had been pretty close with. And long story short, I had committed to going on some trip for a club she was the adviser of. I said, actually, I don’t want to go blah, blah, blah. This should not have been a big deal by anyone’s definition, I promise you that. And when I told her, hey, I think I’m going to actually bail on that, that field trip, it was like you went away for a weekend. I was like, I think I’m actually going to bail. She flipped out on me and started yelling at me, why not? I was like, that’s just not my thing. I don’t I just don’t think I’m going to enjoy it, blah, blah, blah. And in a hallway full of my peers yells This is what I should expect from a Gethard like brings up my family name and shouts and everybody’s like a high school hallway stopped and was like, whoa. And you can imagine this brings up like so so many issues I have feeling judged, feeling pinned to the wall, feeling like, you know, coming from the trashier part of town, feeling like people like having my family name thrown out like that, felt like it was so bad and I was so worked up and she almost got in a lot of trouble, except another teacher, like a friend of mine saw me and I was like about to break down. He’s like, what’s wrong? I got blah, blah, blah is being such a cunt to me. I don’t know why. And another teacher heard that. And in the States, that’s about the worst words you can say. I know in England, you guys throw that around like it’s nothing. [00:33:43][99.8]

Jameela: [00:33:44] It’s a term of endearment. Yeah. If we could name my firstborn that word, we would. [00:33:47][3.5]

Chris: [00:33:48] Exactly. So but the impact here, blah, blah, blah. So I get this Facebook message from this teacher and she goes, hey, I think I just saw that you’re going to be on Live with Kelly. And I wrote back and I go, Yeah, that’s true. And she goes, Do you know what you’re going to talk about? And I go, no I don’t. I’m being very terse. And she goes, I bet you get a lot of material out of her high school years huh? and I go, sometimes that’s true. And she goes, What would you joke about with me if you had to joke about it? And I go probably the time that in a crowded hallway full of other high school students, you made everyone stop and stare at me by yelling this is what I would expect as a guy from a Gethard implying that my family is low class or trashy. That’s probably what I would bring up about you if anyone asked me about you. Yeah, and she just wrote back and she’s like, did that really happen? I go, Yeah, I’m surprised you don’t remember it, because I think about it a lot still. This was about twenty five years ago, I still think about it. She goes, well I know it’s too little too late, but I owe you an apology for that one. And I said, yeah, you do. And the funniest part, though, is. I call my mom because I felt real ashamed, I call my mom like mom, I just did something stupid. I should let this go. I tell my mom what happened. She’s like good [00:35:08][80.8]

Jameela: [00:35:10] Yeah I’m with your mom. Like, I don’t think it was stupid. I’m so fucking I I’ve said this before on this podcast, but I fucking hate the rise above. Be the bigger man. Fuckin high horse. Turn the other cheek. Shit. I think it’s dangerous. I think it causes illness. I think it causes like mental and physical illness. I think we should get it off our chest whenever we can, you know, whenever it’s safe to do so, [00:35:34][23.2]

Chris: [00:35:34] as long as it’s healthy, as long as it’s not like as long as it’s not driven by vindictiveness or negative, like it’s like [00:35:40][5.7]

Jameela: [00:35:40] do you feel like it was easier to let go of it after you said it to the person [00:35:43][2.4]

Chris: [00:35:43] that one felt like a victory because I felt like I was totally in the right. I’ve had other times where I’ve lashed out at people in the spirit of I’m going to stand up for myself. I go, actually, I look back, I was attacking you. [00:35:52][8.9]

Jameela: [00:35:52] No totally I’m just saying that standing up for ourselves or saying someone that’s holding someone to account is never the wrong thing to do. However, later is if it’s still on your mind, it still needs to get off your chest. And it should not be your burden to carry their bad behavior for the rest of your life because you’re being what, quote unquote, dignified. [00:36:12][19.3]

Chris: [00:36:13] And the thing I’m actually proud of with that one is I’m sitting there while she’s typing all this shit and I’m getting mad. Oh, we’re going to be buddies because I’m on TV now when you shit on my family. Inside I’m going I’m at that age. Well, that’s probably thirty eight then. I’m going. I’m thirty eight years old. You’re not my teacher. You’re not this adult that I’ve been told I have to respect. Yes. Respect you. You’ve done you did nothing to earn my respect and in fact did a lot to lose it and I wasn’t able to express that because you were you and I was me. Any adult who judges a kid or lets a kid down or fails a kid, I think those people should be pinned to the wall and shamed. And I was like two decades later, I got to tell you, I’m a fucking grown up now. You shouldn’t have spoken to me like that back then. I went and fucking had a panic attack over it one of my early panic attacks over you because you had a bug up your ass that day and you decided to shit on me and my family. It was it did feel good, that one. It did feel good. [00:37:14][60.8]

Jameela: [00:37:14] It feels great. [00:37:15][0.8]

Jameela: [00:37:22] I would like to go back a little bit, because I think that there might be some people who are listening to this who aren’t familiar with you or what you went through with your mental health. And I was wondering if we could just talk a little bit about that just to kind of contextualize what you’ve gone through, what you think about it, what your journey has been. How old were you when you first started experiencing depression and anxiety? [00:37:46][24.8]

Chris: [00:37:47] Well, it’s hard to say. The thing I always point to is actually the first time someone else noticed it, because that was sort of the first time. I realized it was a real thing. [00:38:02][14.2]

Jameela: [00:38:02] Mm hmm. [00:38:02][0.1]

Chris: [00:38:03] And I was in eighth grade then, so what about 12 years old? And my older brother had some friends over. They were all high school kids. And I was sitting in a chair in my backyard, just kind of like looking off into the distance. And one of my brother’s friends waited until everybody else was occupied. And he walked over and he goes, Hey, man, I just want to check in you, OK? And I so distinctly remember realizing, oh, he can see on the outside how I’m feeling on the inside. I got to do a better job hiding this. And I remember that moment really crystal clear. And I was in middle school, like I said. And then, you know, high school is bad, college was worse. And I was about two years after college that I finally saw a doctor. So there’s about an eight or nine year stretch in there where things were untreated. And I was I was hiding it and where the pressure was building and. [00:38:59][55.5]

Jameela: [00:38:59] You didn’t even know what it was. You didn’t even identify it. Like I heard you in your special say that, you know, you thought it was normal for an 11 year old to have an internal monologue like the guy from Taxi Driver. [00:39:10][11.2]

Chris: [00:39:11] Yeah, just constant thoughts in my head. Revenge, violent thoughts, angry thoughts like this running dialogue. And I think, like I said, I mean, it ties into what I was saying before. Like, I did grow up in a place where there were there were there was violence. There were other kids who had come at you, that teacher. I mentioned the entire infrastructure of my schooling system at the time. The adults failed us. And a lot of the people I grew up with say that and still agree with on that. And I was clearly going to be prone to mental illness no matter what. And in an environment like that, it got bad, got bad. [00:39:48][36.6]

Jameela: [00:39:48] And it’s interesting, you’ve only really realized that recently because when watching your I was watching a special again last night in preparation for this podcast. And, you know, early on in the in it, you just sort of talk about the fact that you have no idea why things have been so rough for you. And this is this is four or five years ago that you recorded this podcast sorry not this podcast. Sorry, it was four or five years ago you recorded the special and you speak about it with more kind of like confusion or whimsy or like, you know, just say is what it is like. This is just I don’t know why I’m like this. I just am like this. You know, I had you talk you vaguely reference having a tricky childhood, but mostly you sound quite grateful for it and a lot of the onus and responsibility you put on yourself or on the chemical condition you may have. And yet you were talking to me when we spoke privately about the fact that recently you’ve had the revelation that actually why it may while it may not be the cause of everything, it was definitely the fuel on the fire, just how violent and troubling the area you grew up in. And you didn’t really know that because it’s so hyper normalized to you until recently when you reconnected with old friends, right? [00:40:54][66.2]

Chris: [00:40:55] Yeah. There’s two things reconnecting with old friends. The stories start coming as they do for anybody to reconnect with your old high school pals, right. And all our stories were about really messed up incidents and everybody has a dark sense of humor. But I’m sitting here going, I kind of figured with time I was remembering this is bigger than it was. I’m a comedian, so my whole instinct is to exaggerate everything. And then I got people telling me they saw me get in a fistfight where I, quote, went more insane than they’ve ever seen anyone go. You hear people talking about things from the neighborhood, people they knew, incidents that happened. I’m going, oh, it was really unmoored. The other thing that’s really made me reexamine it is having a two year old son. You know, all of a sudden I think about the childhood I have to provide for him and what I wanted to be. And the only real way to do that, I think, is you start thinking about what did you like about your own childhood? What are the things you’d like to correct about your childhood? Being in an environment where you are asked to be tough all the time, where you are told that you should kind of just go deal with it all the time where you feel like you have to watch your own back, where you have to put your guard up. I think, though, I think that’s a recipe for disaster with anybody who does have some depression, some mania because. I grew up in a way where you don’t let your guard down and go tell somebody you’re struggling, [00:42:16][81.5]

Jameela: [00:42:18] Is that is that just is that not only the time where, you know, obviously we were before the Internet less versed on mental illness, but is that also toxic masculinity? [00:42:25][7.4]

Chris: [00:42:27] Well, let me tell you a story that’s really dark, really dark. And it’s about my brother. I mentioned in the special that he once got in a bully, once broke his shoulder in a fight. And I bring it up because it’s dark and explanatory, but I make a joke about it and kind of move on, but. When my mother here’s one thing, I don’t mention the show when my mother went to the school after that. What people, I think would be shocked to hear is a kid broke his bone in a fight at school and when my mom went down there to talk to the administration, they said, well, nothing’s going to happen to the kid, no suspension, nothing like that, and my mom goes, what are you talking about? And she goes, the principal goes, Well, that kid comes from a family. His dad’s a really severe alcoholic. And we know that he gets beaten at home. So if we suspend him, he’s going to get physically beaten up by us, by his father. [00:43:29][62.6]

Jameela: [00:43:30] Jesus. [00:43:30][0.0]

Chris: [00:43:31] And my mother’s going. So that just means my son has to see this kid in the hallway and know he got away with this like and that tells you a lot about the neighborhood I was in. Right. Like, that’s how low the standards got of like. [00:43:43][12.7]

Jameela: [00:43:46] I understand why they’re making that decision, but like, why is there no one to interrupt his living situation? Why are they just leaving a kid with a like predator? [00:43:53][7.1]

Chris: [00:43:56] Exactly. So when I say I grew up in a neighborhood where it felt like you had to watch your own back and where the adults were failing in the system is failing you. And it felt like there was this constant feeling that you had to be tough all the time or you were going to be preyed upon. It’s very real. And I think that story explains it you know. Now every other bully in school feels like they have license because a kid just did something. I feel like you don’t. Not too many times [00:44:21][25.0]

Jameela: [00:44:21] you get expelled for that. Most schools. [00:44:22][1.2]

Chris: [00:44:22] Exactly like a bone gets broken. There’s consequences. Oh, no, there’s no consequences here. Well, that tells every bully they have free license and that tells every kid who is bullied put your fists up, because even if you’re not the type of person who wants to fight, you have to. That’s going to that’s going to cause some damage, let alone for me, who already clearly prone to being an ultra sensitive kid with emotions that I couldn’t control. [00:44:47][25.0]

Jameela: [00:44:50] Yeah. I went to a show at Edinburgh Fringe Festival and, you know, they’re kind of it’s a mixture of theater and comedy. It depends on whatever you stumble into when you go and watch it. And I remember a comedian talking about the fact that when you’re a kid is when your neurological wiring is set. And so if you grow up in a very anxious environment, let’s say you have a troubled parent or you go to a very dangerous school or you live in a dangerous area, your wiring for the rest of your life is most definitively set in the sort of first six or seven years. Now, this man is not neurologist, but everything I’ve read since seems to kind of back this up. And so you develop a setting. I know that I did. You develop a setting for the rest of your life and I had no idea that this was happening. So I, I it was the first time I’d ever cried in front of my friends. But I broke down sobbing in this theater because it was the first time I’d ever understood myself that, oh, I’m actually not as in control of all these reactions I have to everything, you know, like I’m a massive I believe the terminology is a pussy ass ho over in America. [00:45:57][67.0]

Chris: [00:45:58] Yeah, I’ve heard that yeah. [00:45:59][1.3]

Jameela: [00:45:59] Massive pussy ass ho from what I understand and I you know, I’m afraid of everything, and I, I, I can’t be in a house on my own or in a big apartment on my own. Like, I have to always be in a studio apartment or like a little hotel room only with one bedroom. And I have to be very, very small. I have to have to check all the cupboards. I just I’m neurotic. And I realized in that moment I’m also terrified of women or I’m terrified of people. I have just all these exhausting terrors and thoughts that I’m constantly working through in therapy. But I realized in that moment, oh, my God, it’s not my fault. I’m not choosing this isn’t a weakness. This isn’t something I’m actively participating in, at least willingly. I’m coded this way. I’ve been my pathway’s my neurological pathways have been fucking set in a pattern of fear, guilt, etc. When you get far enough away from your childhood that you can actually look back at it and zoom out, you just think, why me? Why not? But a lot of the people we’ve had on this podcast like something something ridiculous happened to them as an absurd, absurdly difficult and traumatic. And I think the thing that everyone’s had to wrestle with is why me? Why did no one else have to go through this? And what we realized via things like this podcast is that a lot more of us, maybe not everyone, but a lot more of us went through these things than we realize. And it makes us feel more of a sense of togetherness. And I think, you know, you’ve been a big part of that community and the work that you’ve done and using comedy to talk about mental illness very explicitly. And it makes people feel less alone. [00:47:40][100.7]

Chris: [00:47:41] Well thanks. I did my part. I’d like to think I did my part. And a lot of people have told me that the special really helped them. And it means a lot. I get a little freaked out now. It’s funny, like. I doing your show right now, as I’ve been very, very wary of talking about it further because. A. I don’t you know, first of all, I don’t want to just be the suicide guy, I do a lot of stuff. And also, you know. And I’m sure you’ve encountered this as well, when you when you when you make a project that talks about it so publicly, it also means people feel a lot of freedom to approach you and just let you know how and it’s all in the flattering context of your helping me. And here’s what I dealt with. And then sometimes I go. I am I did my part, and I’d like to think that now I can maybe move into a life that’s not defined by pain, mine and other peoples, and it’s always so incredibly meaningful to me to hear that stuff. And then I also go again, I think probably rooted in the fact that I’ve been trained to have my guard up at all times. I go, oh, maybe I need to also keep the guard up a little bit by talking about it here. Feels quite good. So thank you. Thank you for that. [00:48:54][72.6]

Jameela: [00:48:55] I’m very happy to hear that. No, I’m very happy to hear that. [00:48:56][1.3]

Chris: [00:48:57] Feels quite safe. [00:48:57][0.0]

Jameela: [00:48:57] Yeah, yeah. Well, it is a very safe space and you couldn’t have more solidarity from me because there’s no one who’s, you know, made more mistakes or interesting decisions with myself or, you know, I’ve you know, I’ve seen I’ve seen the bottom of the well many times I’ve lived there for a matter of years. At one point it was my P.O. Box and so. [00:49:20][23.3]

Chris: [00:49:20] They would just shut the nail down and it would bounce off your head. [00:49:23][2.3]

Jameela: [00:49:23] Yeah. That’s another one for you, Jameel. And so I really get it. And I really appreciate it. And, you know, it’s just very refreshing for me to have a man come on here and talk about his mental health, because we just don’t have very men feel safe in this world to talk about their mental health. And, you know, when we were talking privately, I was saying that and I think I’ve said this on this podcast before, that I’m concerned with the avenue of feminism that takes a path in misandry, which is a kind of you know, it’s a hatred and disregard for men. And I while I understand rage and bitterness and fucking being infuriated with the inequality that women have faced in this world, I also don’t know that the road towards healing, the road towards bringing the genders together or even dispelling the gender myths of, you know, what is a man, what is a woman? A man must be stoic, can never show his emotions. A woman is always hysterical, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We’re never going to get anywhere if we just start from a place of hate and disregard. I think it’s really important for us to acknowledge that there is a mental health crisis among men and that it gets worse by them not feeling safe to be able to talk about it. It gets worse with them thinking that violence is the answer to their feelings and they’re taught that. And and I think it’s incredibly healing for us to have the conversations about the fact that men go through all the same vulnerabilities that we do. They just process it differently or they aren’t allowed to process it at all. And that’s what resulted in a lot of their own internal pain, suicide figures like rising in younger and younger men, more and more men needing medication, more and more men taking their pain out, maybe on other people, if we don’t fuckin talk about it and destigmatize it and make men feel safe to come out and speak about this, then as a society, we’re just going to keep fucking everything up. So as someone who has, you know, who’s kind of who’s been through a lot to get to where you are now, right, you have so much life experience, you have so many lessons, you’ve learned so many things. You know what you want don’t want to do. What do you want for your kid? You’re raising a little boy in this world, having all these lessons under your belt? What do you want for him? [00:51:40][137.4]

Chris: [00:51:43] Such a scary question in some ways, simple questions here. I know when. When my wife was pregnant, we took a birthing class and a lot of it is about kind of like, you know, a lot of it was the actual mechanics of what can happen in the birthing room, but then also about like the emotional impact and like how people’s lives are turned upside down. And at one point we had to say our biggest fears for our children. And I said, I hope he’s not like me like that was. And I started crying and I meant it because I feel like my main job as a dad that probably my dad felt, too that is kind of impossible to put into words. But but I will try as to say like. How do I. Spare him. From all the damaging parts. While trying to amplify. All the positive things I took away. My dad grew up across the street from where I grew up, grew up in the same neighborhood. So he totally understood that. Yeah. You got to be tough to grow up there. You know, he knew that I sit here and go man I want my son to be able to maintain his own dignity. I wonder if that can happen through other means besides fighting, which was how I felt like it needed to come down to some points. I sit here and I got honestly, I sit here and I go, I think my son should know how to fight because he might have to, but I don’t want him to ever have to. And then I sit here and I go, I don’t ever want him to get in a fight. But if I but if he walks into a bathroom at school one day and sees some kid getting thrown into a corner and wailed on by two or three other kids, I want him to run into that fight and help that kid. So I want him to know how to fight for that situation. I pray he never has to. [00:53:41][117.1]

Jameela: [00:53:41] Use it. [00:53:42][0.3]

Chris: [00:53:43] Yeah, or feel almost backed into a corner where he’s obligated to use it, you know. [00:53:49][6.0]

Jameela: [00:53:49] Or like it defines him if he does. [00:53:50][1.1]

Chris: [00:53:50] Exactly, exactly where I sit here and I go, man. Even when I think about who I am and things I’ve accomplished, I go the fact that I was trained to stand up for myself and to kind of take hits and dust myself off and throw punches when I had to. If you look at my career, so much of it happened underground and just sticking to my guns, making it happen, forcing it through until my show finally got to cable, until someone finally published the book, I shopped around for six years. I wouldn’t have it in me to fight for six years to get that book published. I wouldn’t have stayed on public access television for four years if I wasn’t a fighter deep down. So much of that is the positive of how I grew up. How do I give him that? And how do I even give him more positive versions of the negatives and not screw them up? It’s a tightrope. It’s a tightrope. [00:54:45][55.0]

Jameela: [00:54:47] And it’s it’s interesting, isn’t it, how much having children kind of highlights all your biggest sort of like fears about yourself or it can expose parts of you that you’re like, oh, fuck, I still need to deal with. I haven’t dealt with that. I don’t want him his little sponge and absorb a little sponge. It looks up to you who wants to be just like you. The irony of you saying, you know, like, oh, I don’t want him to be like me, but the only thing he’s thinking right now is I want to be like you. Kids either want to be or marry their parents, even when they’re little. So you’re having to be so on guard, I imagine, about how you how you because because I imagine you want to make sure that you have an open dialogue about mental health or about sensitivity or about what you love or hate. I imagine you want that for him. But at the same time, you don’t want to show him too much of your vulnerability in a way that he would absorb it negatively. Right. It’s like a tightrope. [00:55:37][50.3]

Chris: [00:55:39] It’s a real tightrope. It’s a real tightrope. And it’s there’s two things I’ll say. One is you’ll be happy to hear like. So I made some money. I was in TV. I bought a house in a place that’s nicer than the neighborhood I grew up in. I spent all that money just to get the house. I’m now the poorest person in this neighborhood I guarantee it. But I’ve already seen some of the kids around here, like the six, seven, eight year olds pushing each other around. And my wife will catch me saying, I’m not letting any of these rich my kids going to know not to let any of these rich kids beat him up. And she’s going, you got to listen to yourself right now because that’s going to [00:56:14][35.3]

Jameela: [00:56:15] show a little inner Tony Soprano innit? [00:56:16][1.1]

Chris: [00:56:16] It is the jersey in me. But she’s going maybe it can be he’s not going to let other kids beat him up or he’s going to learn to walk away or he’s going to learn [00:56:24][7.9]

Jameela: [00:56:25] to diffuse the situation, [00:56:26][0.7]

Chris: [00:56:27] diffuse the situation or decide, here’s who I’m friends with, here’s who I’m not. And I don’t need to clamor for the approval of those kids. There’s a lot of other ways to handle it. Besides, don’t let the rich kids pick on you like that. You’re going to mess him up. Now, another thing that you just brought up is realizing how much he’s perceiving me. It’s such a good point, and becoming a dad has made me realize. How off the mark I often was in perceiving my father as a kid. Because, it’s wild, because I did my dad is the best and he was a great dad, he was also a workaholic, he’d be the first to admit and there were times where I could feel like distance and there were times where I could feel. Like I keep mentioning this priority and toughness, which was necessary, but unfortunate. And now I had my kid, I was thirty eight, just on the cusp of 39, my father, I was my father’s second child. He was 27 when he had me. It means he was 24 when he had my brother and then he had a mortgage and they had no money. My I found out after my son was born, my aunt and uncle told me that when they said when my parents said they wanted to have a second, their family actually sat them down and said, What are you doing? You’re going to you’re going to put yourselves in the poorhouse. Like my parents. I found out once my son was born, I found out when when my parents got married between the two of them they had a net worth of 400 dollars, they had four hundred dollars between them when they got married, they were living check to check. So I look back at my dad, I go, man, he seems really tough at times. He seemed really distant. He was at work all the time. He missed some stuff that I wish he didn’t. It made me feel these feelings towards him. I go, Oh, my dad wasn’t tough. My dad was scared, but he couldn’t let me know how scared he was. Or else I would have been scared if my dad fell down and broke his leg. His family would have we would have been like living in [00:58:39][132.6]

Jameela: [00:58:41] on the street, maybe [00:58:41][0.5]

Chris: [00:58:42] we would have been living in it like my like two of us would probably go live with my mom’s parents. The two of us would go live with my dads because nobody had enough room like that was their reality for a while. And I remember asking my mom, I go, mom, because I knew we didn’t have like we were always very, very stable. And there were kids around me in my neighborhood. I could see all those kids are poor. Those kids have it rough. I got mom were we. Were we poor growing up, and she goes, well, let’s put it this way, I never made a joke about how poor we were until we weren’t that poor anymore. And I went, that’s good parenting. There was a lot of stresses I had and especially a lot of stuff about my dad, where I go. Oh. That was they had to hide that reality from me or I would have lived in terror and he successfully hid that reality, but there are certainly some costs to that right to my perceptions of him. So it’s another thing to sort out with my kid. How are you perceiving me and what do I allow you to perceive of me? And what are the things that are going to stress you out more than they help you to know? And how much damage is that going to do? I see. Now, that was it was a very layered, complex line my dad had to walk to protect me and he sacrificed some stuff to do that. My dad I just hurt my dad’s feelings recently when he was telling me about how when I was born, he felt like he felt like he has this closeness with my brother that he’s always had because all of a sudden my mom needed to focus on me as the newborn, and then my brother was two and a half, three years old and my dad had to deal with him more. He was a little more self-sufficient and I was being breastfed and this and that. And he goes, I had this stretch of time where you and I and I said to my dad, meaning no harm by it, I go, Yeah, I don’t feel like you. And I got close until after I graduated college. And he looked so I saw a moment where he looked so hurt and I felt so bad and I go. Yeah, man, like I feel like once I was I felt like he and I got close once I was old enough to help him move and be able to carry couches together in those big window air conditioners. And he realized that because for some reason, I’ve always enjoyed that. I’m like, oh, that’s a good workout. And I just feel cool loading up a big truck. And he and I have done that. But I go, I always felt like you and I started having heart to hearts when we were moving together, when you guys moved and when you’d help me move in college and we were lifting heavy things, that’s when I felt like we’d actually start talking real to each other. And I could tell it hurt him so bad to hear that I was like 20 before I felt like he and I really connected. [01:01:15][153.5]

Jameela: [01:01:16] But it sounds like [01:01:17][0.7]

Chris: [01:01:17] I don’t think he knew it. I don’t think he knew that until that moment I felt bad. [01:01:20][2.5]

Jameela: [01:01:20] Sounds like he was. I mean, I don’t know. And I’m sure as shit, no psychologist, but it sounds like maybe he’s he felt like you could handle him at that age. Like it sounds like when you’re super, super vulnerable, he’s afraid of doing any damage or afraid of just breaking you in some way. And so when you’re there and you’re exhibiting that you’re a man now and you’re strong and you’re grown up and you can lift stuff and do stuff like he sees more of a level playing field and being able to be, [01:01:48][27.2]

Chris: [01:01:49] Maybe I see it more that way. Maybe I’ve earned it. I’ve earned I’m showing you that I got this in me and it makes me feel a little bit more. OK, talking about the other stuff. [01:01:57][8.2]

Jameela: [01:01:58] Yeah, true. But I want to ask you before I before I let you go, did you ever think that you would get to a point where you’ve lived a successful life, you are happily married to someone that you love and admire, and you have a little kid, happy little kid who’s growing up so differently to you and you have a nice house in a nice area and you feel OK, like you’re stable. You understand all of your own feelings. During your lowest moments did you ever think this was going to be possible for you to arrive at all of this at such a young age? [01:02:31][33.5]

Chris: [01:02:32] No, absolutely not. I, I can say sincerely without any hyperbole or shock value that. I. When I was studying college, I assumed I would be dead before I graduated, I assume that either through suicide or a car accident because I would drive like a psychopath, looking back at it, to put myself in harm’s way or drinking myself to death. All of those things were a factor. And I. I did not think I was going to make it. Twenty five would have felt elderly to me back then in my perspective. So to see how much was on the other side of everything else, let alone now, as as I move on to this phase of raising a kid, it’s just like. I really do thank God on a regular basis that I did not kill myself because there were so much beautiful stuff on the other side of it, which might be a cliche or trite thing to say, but. [01:03:34][62.0]

Jameela: [01:03:35] No it’s important. [01:03:35][0.8]

Chris: [01:03:36] Yeah, it’s it’s it’s just so true. It’s just so true. [01:03:39][2.9]

Jameela: [01:03:40] I feel the same way. [01:03:41][0.8]

Chris: [01:03:41] I did not think I was going to make it into my 30s. No way. Not even close. [01:03:43][2.5]

Jameela: [01:03:44] Oh yeah. I mean if you look at the way that I used to spend money, it’s, I definitely didn’t think I was going to be here at 30. I was just like, I’m throwing it all away. [01:03:51][6.2]

Chris: [01:03:52] Yeah. [01:03:52][0.0]

Jameela: [01:03:52] Yeah. I was I was just like a walking fire island with tits. I was the human equivalent of Fire Island. I, I think it’s a really beautiful thing to say. And I think it’s a really reassuring and important message in this moment where people are struggling with their mental health more collectively and more emphatically than ever before. They need to hear stories of hope. They need to hear that there’s more there’s there’s more left to the story and that, you know, it may not be perfect and I may still be deps, but generally you can find some overwhelming beauty on the other side if your lowest fucking points and it’s worth it just to hang on. And you never know when someone needs to hear, you just need to hang on. [01:04:34][41.2]

Chris: [01:04:34] Yeah. And, you know, when you said the overwhelming beauty thing, I’ve said this before, but I just so sincerely have found it to be true over and over again is. People who feel that depression and that loneliness that goes along with it, I really think more and more lately about how like depression is bad, but people can see it and understand it. People don’t understand the loneliness that comes along with it. That feeling and anyone who’s dealt with it knows what I mean is profound loneliness. But to feel things that are that negative as profoundly as we do. One of the small rewards is I often find that I have had moments where I appreciate the small beauties amplified in a way other people don’t get as well like. I can feel a sadness and a pain that I wouldn’t wish on anybody, but then sometimes I think it makes me able to take in and appreciate small things in a way that people who don’t have this don’t get to experience and they are missing out on that. So I get to have that as a consolation prize. [01:05:42][67.5]

Jameela: [01:05:42] The euphoria of being canceled on and then getting a hot water bottle and getting into bed and putting on Netflix with some strawberry cream cake. Oh, I mean, and feeling no pain and no frustration and no sadness. No depression like the euphoria of that of that peace for me is something that I don’t think I would just take for granted had I not just known the lowest moments of chaos, pain, self-harm, thinking I needed to be around other people in order just to be safe. There’s a whole other world. [01:06:14][32.0]

Chris: [01:06:16] I find for me, very often it’s while I’m driving by myself, I’ll come around a corner and see a view and I’ll just go, oh, my God, oh, my God. And then I realize. Man. Most of these people are just driving 85 miles an hour right past this, but I don’t take it for granted because I didn’t think I was going to live this long and I felt that pain go, oh, my God, look at that. Look at what I’m seeing right now and not every moment of every day. But there’s some moments where I go, I bet the other people in the other cars aren’t feeling this, and maybe it’s because they don’t have to. God bless them, but I get to I get to feel this and that’s a nice thing too. [01:06:59][42.9]

Jameela: [01:06:59] That’s beautiful. And I think after the last year, I think more and more of us are going to be that way because we can’t we’ve realized we can’t take so much for granted. I’m really happy to see where you’re at now compared to where you started in every way. And and it’s really amazing to hear you be able to talk about it with such eloquence and peace and a lack of judgment of yourself or of the situation. I think it’s really inspiring and really nice for people to hear. And I as I said before, I love talking to men about their mental health. I hope that any man listening to this right now or anyone who knows a man will will think about these things and and want to encourage these conversations. I appreciate the way that you use your platform, the way you use your art, your comedy. And I still find you very significant. [01:07:50][50.5]

Chris: [01:07:51] Thanks. Thanks so much. Yeah. Yeah, I’ll take it. It means something to me. So. Yeah. [01:07:59][8.0]

Jameela: [01:07:59] Um, so Chris, before you leave, will you tell me what do you weigh? [01:08:05][5.3]

Chris: [01:08:07] I I weigh myself in one sense, not by my own artistic work, because I think my artistic work’s been OK and at times good at times hit and miss. But I’ve I’ve managed in my life to get opportunities to a lot of other comedians, giving them their first writing jobs, their first acting jobs and. I think someday I’ll be retired or dead and somebody will look at this guy’s family tree. Look how many people he helped along the way. And I do weigh myself by that, that I try to have a sense of community that would help other people have an easier path in my field. I weigh myself as someone who never forgot where I came from, good and bad. And I think ultimately more good than bad and I think that’s going to help me in probably the third way, I would say I weigh myself, which is as a dad. Which I know, I know how obvious, but. Every way I think of myself ultimately now serves to be filtered down to its best parts and handed to my son, so I, I can’t not say that. [01:09:26][78.1]

Jameela: [01:09:27] That’s lovely. Well, thank you so much for coming on to talk to me today, and I am pleased to know that I’m sending you off to quite a lovely life. [01:09:37][9.9]

Chris: [01:09:38] Yes, indeed. This changed everything for the positive forever. Thank you. [01:09:42][3.4]

Jameela: [01:09:45] Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela Jamil is produced and researched by myself, Jameela Jamil, Aaron Finnegan and Kimmie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carson. And the beautiful music that you’re hearing now is made by my boyfriend, James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate, review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. I really appreciate it. And it amps me up to bring on better and better guests. Lastly, at I Weigh we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast, you can leave us a voicemail at 1-818-660-5543. Or email us what you weigh at Iweighpodcast@Gmail.com. It’s not pounds and kilos so please don’t send that. It’s all about you just you know, you’ve been on the Instagram anyway, and now we would love to pass the mic to one of our listeners. [01:10:33][47.5]

Listener: [01:10:37] Hi Jameela, my name is Ruth Fellowman, and I am from the great white north of Canada. And what do I weigh? I weigh the amount of care and love I have for other people. I weigh the passion I have to help people who are struggling with their mental health or body image. I weigh that my desire to make a difference in the world. So thank you so much for doing this and hopefully we can talk again soon. Goodbye. [01:10:37][0.0]

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