Ibram X Kendi
I Weigh with Jameela Jamil #27 October 8, 2020
Author, professor, and historian Ibram X Kendi joins Jameela this week to discuss what it currently feels like to be a black man in America, his journey of discovering his own racism, why it is so important to vote, his continual growth in better supporting black women and black trans people, and why he still has hope. Be Antiracist, a workbook for readers as they continue their ongoing work to be antiracist is available now.
Be Antiracist – https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/667140/be-antiracist-by-ibram-x-kendi/
Hear the Episode
IWEIGH-027-20201008-ACv01-DYN.mp3
JAMEELA JAMIL [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of "I Weigh" with the Jameela Jamil. Are you okay? Are you all right? I don't know if I am because this is getting nuts and there's so much going on in the news cycle and so many terrifying things are being snuck in. We're seeing more stuff about pro-life. I think Donald Trump this week tweeted like "Pro-life, vote"! If you are pro-life, then you will vote for the people that want to help the lives of those already living. And so I feel very strongly about the fact that we accept that pro-life doesn't just apply to fetuses, it applies to immigrants. It applies to those who need health care. It applies to trans people. It applies to black people, people of color. That is what pro life actually means. I feel like a lot of what we hear is pro-birth. And, you know, we covered this a lot last week on Gloria Steinem's episode, which was so remarkable. And thank you so much for the ways in which you've reached out. I really love the fact that you guys enjoyed it. And you also enjoyed hearing two very outspoken and firm feminists disagree with each other very kindly and respectfully, but still, you know, never necessarily backing down. I think we need more of that discourse and more of proof that women are capable of disagreement without it being like a bitchy catfight or anyone crying or ending up in a 15 year grudge. Big love to Gloria Steinem for everything that she told us last week. But I just, having just gone through with that episode and then seeing what's happening in the news cycle this week is just bananas to me. Anyway. So that's fucked. Be very careful about not listening to people who were saying that you shouldn't vote, you should vote. I understand that the previous system is so far from perfect, but at least it's a system. If we don't vote now, there will be potentially no system as of November 3rd. I'm not supposed to be political, but I think we have to be political. We cannot stay out of these things. And even though I cannot vote in America, I, I beg of you to vote for me. Please just go out and vote. Even if we don't share the same political beliefs, just please go out and vote and make sure that you are voting for the lives of the living people who are here. And remember that the first things that will be attacked is trans rights, or the rights of those who have disabilities or people who are vulnerable when it comes to their health. Women, reproductive rights and, and all people of color. So just really think about it. And don't listen to the online chit chat that's become much trendier lately of the people who quote Karl Marx and they say, you know, there's no point, like we shouldn't have to pick between the lesser of two evils. We do have to pick. This time, we really have to pick between the lesser of two evils. So I'm just urging you to participate and make the most of what potentially could be our last right to vote and make a decision. I, myself, had a, had a bit of a wild week. I got to speak at Congress. That was really, honestly, one of the more exceptional moments of my entire life. And I was campaigning against weight stigma in schools. So for kids to not have to grow up and end up with all of the toxic messaging that we have ended up with and a bit more kind of social media literacy in schools, that was, was a really big deal for me, and I can't stress enough that I wouldn't be able to do something like that without all of you. So a massive thank you to those of you who support me and who support "I Weigh", because without all of the noise that you make behind or with or alongside me or over me, I wouldn't be able to push the buttons that I'm able to push and be involved in the change that I'm able to be involved in. And so, again, I just want to remind you of your tremendous power. The power of your involvement, your engagement, your voting, the power of you really throwing your whole weight behind something that you care about. You're so effective and magical. And look how far "I Weigh" has been able to come in the last two years. It's, it's bananas how, how lucky we have been to be able to have such an extraordinary community of such, of such fierce followers and listeners and fellow fighters. So big love to you. We also got nominated for a People's Choice Award, which is really sweet for this podcast. So if you like it, you can vote for us. But obviously, that's not the most important thing I want you to vote for this month. So if you got time after you vote for the other thing, you could maybe vote for the People's Choice Award. Anyway, I know that that's a somber start to the day. But there's a lot of shit going on and I don't want to gloss over it as if it doesn't matter because nothing has ever mattered more than some of these things this week. And I just can't help but want to consistently thank you and remind you of how powerful you are. And even if sometimes you feel like one small individual, you're not. You're part of a massive army of tremendous change. And so few things that are good would happen without all of you. So with all of this going on in my mind and going on in the world, I wanted someone smarter and better than me to come on and talk to me about this and, and plenty of other things that I just simply don't know enough about yet. I asked Professor Ibram Kendi, who is a wonderful speaker and writer and, and organizer, to come onto the show to talk to me about voter suppression, about the importance of voting, about why young people have been disenfranchised or they've been demotivated from, from actually participating in a system that that could potentially protect their, their democracy. And we talk about what it's like to be a black man in America. And also, one of the things that I find the most interesting about his work is his approach, which is unlike one I've seen that has reached the mainstream the way it has, because this man is just a ultimate New York Times bestseller. His book, "How to Be an Antiracist", just keeps rising up and down, up and down, all the way up to the top and has become a very, like, massive part of our, our nationwide discussion. But he talks about racism as a transient thing. He talks about it as something that you are diagnosed with, that you have to cure. He believes you can cure racism. He believes that because he considers himself to be a reformed racist. He, he talks about his own past as an anti-black, young, black man. And because he himself has gone through the journey of reform and registered actually that you can educate yourself, you can change and you can fight on the right side. He now believes that anyone is capable of that shift and of that change. And the reason I think that is so important is because we have become more afraid of being called racist than of racism itself. Because our ego is hurt or because we are terrified that it is a tattoo, it's an identity forever, like we're this terrible monster forever. We, we shut down any kind of conversation around it. And we also interrupt our own ability to be self reflective. And that is so dangerous. We, all, all human beings are capable of some sort of bias. All human beings are just a product of their environment, and ignorance and evil are not always the same thing. We all are capable of progress and change. And I think his way of looking at bias as something that is transient, something that is a disease to be cured, that then you can be free from and in remission from forever is actually hopeful. It's actually progressive. It says that there is value in doing the work and that you can genuinely change on the inside and become a good person. So I hope you enjoy what he has to say. I really think you should read his work. I am also excited to share that he's publishing a journal called "Be Antiracist”, which is on sale this week that'll help serve as a workbook for readers as they continue the ongoing everyday work of striving to be Antiracist. I really like this man. I really support the way in which he speaks. I see the way that he has to take on so much criticism, and he does it with such grace and thoughtfulness and understanding. We also talk about that a little bit in this episode, but I'm dying to hear what you think. And if ever there was a time where we have to lean into this conversation, it's now. So please enjoy the excellent, Professor Ibram Kendi. Dr. Ibram Kendi, thank you so much for taking the time out of maybe one of the busiest years of your entire life to speak to me today. How are you?
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:08:54] Oh, well, thank you for having me. It has been intense, to say the least.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:09:37] That's precisely what it is. It's certainly mixed. I mean, you do of course, you, I write books for people to read them and take them seriously and they'll also hopefully transform themselves. But at the same time, knowing that, that some people and not many people have been ushered towards my books and other books, you know, because of the sort of murders of people this year, you know, certainly that, that makes it sort of bitter.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:10:52] I think to be black, to be a black man in America. And just like a black woman and conscious of anti-, of racism, is to know that you can be murdered at any point. Is to be, is to know that you can be blamed for your, for someone else murdering you. You know, is to know that you won't be, or in many cases you won't be protected by the state. You know, that even policymakers and powerful people will stomp on your grave and use you to, to advance their political careers. You know, it's to know that really, you live in a country that, that, and you live among many people who, who can care less about you.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:12:15] And that's the hope. I mean, because, you know, I know that from many racist Americans when they see me, they see danger. And, and, you know, and so, you know, how does it feel to be in danger embodied when you certainly are not dangerous? It is certainly difficult. And so I think some black men go out of their way to make sure that people don't feel scared sort of around them. You know, I don't. I just try to go about my day and be who I'm going to be. And if I'm walking down the street or even running down the street and then someone gets scared, then that's their problem, not mine.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:13:13] To be Antiracist is to believe there's nothing wrong with any of the racial groups. There's nothing wrong with black people. There's nothing wrong with, with LatinX people. There's nothing wrong with Native or Asian. There's really nothing wrong with these groups of people, just like there's nothing right about white people. And, and to be Antiracist is to then look out at our society of all these racial disparities. You know, black people are more likely to be in prison or they are more likely to be impoverished or LatinX people are more likely to be infected with with COVID-19 than white people. And since the cause of it is not because there is something wrong with these people. You know, that the cause is, is, is racist policy. There's something about our conditions, our society, you know, our governing structure that is leading to these injustices, and to be Antiracist to be aware of that and to fight that, to create, you know, equality and justice for all.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:16:00] Yeah, I came of age in the 1980s and especially the 1990s. And if there was ever a decade in American history where black youth were considered "the problem", the American problem, it was the 1990s. That's when black youths were called a menace to society. That's why we had a, you know, there was a famous movie called "Menace to Society". That's when black youth were considered super predators. That's when black youth were, were told, particularly black girls, that they were having too many babies because they wanted to get more welfare. That's when, you know, black youth were told, we were told our hip hop was making us hypersexual and violent. That's when black youth were told we didn't value education. And, and essentially all of these ideas were essentially creating this extremely toxic environment for any black young person to grow up in. And, and, and not only toxic, you know, as far as, you know, a sort of specificity of refusing to recognize all of the policy that we're ensnaring black youth, instead people were blaming the sort of victims of those policies. But even the toxicity in which, you know, in many ways, some of us, namely me, ended up believing some of those ideas, that there was something wrong with black youth. In other words, you waded us in a toxic environment, we're going to get sick too.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:17:41] Well yeah, I mean, my, you know, I think my parents, like other people who moved from working class or even poverty into the black middle class in the 1980s. Some of those black middle income people imagine that they had moved into the black middle class because they worked so hard and they were so brilliant and those other, you know, still writhing black people in poverty, it's because they hadn't worked as hard. And so that they would, again, something wrong with black poor people. And so, you know, and so, you know, I needed to sort of, so, you know, by the time I graduated high school, I had consumed all the idea of anti-blackness. And I, you know, expressed many of them in a senior, in a speech I gave as a senior in high school at a MLK competition. That really, and that's where the book really began, "How to Be An Antiracist", with that speech. And it really begins there and ends up really tracking my journey to really heal myself, you know, of these, this form of anti-blackness. But again, I wasn't born that way. I was raised in a toxic environment, an environment of anti-blackness. And, and I ended up sort of becoming diseased, and I had to spend the rest of my life really seeking to, to heal myself from that. You know, at the same time that the nation and the environment stayed toxic. And I think that's what made it hard. That's why it's hard to be Antiracist. That's why it's easy to be racist in this racist society.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:19:40] What's striking is really it started 20 years ago, almost to the day. 20 years ago, almost to the day, I was a, I was a freshman in college and I was in Tallahassee, Florida. And for those who may, may re-, may not remember, that, of course, that was during a presidential election. And many people knew that the election between George W. Bush and Al Gore was going to come down to who won Florida. And, you know, after, and I should say on Election Day and certainly days after, again, I was thinking there was something wrong with, with, with black people. But, but I was struck by all these stories that I heard from other students at Florida A&M, and certainly what was happening to their parents back home, because many of those students were from Florida, from Florida, you know, communities, about how their votes were being spoiled, about how their votes were being suppressed. And, and so for me, it became undeniable, voter suppression and how widespread it was in the 2000 election. And it became undeniable that racism was a problem. And so I think for me, you know, experiencing the 2000 election and the, you know, incredible number of black people whose votes were suppressed and of course, ultimately George W. Bush winning the state by a few hundred votes. And ultimately, the presidency was really the beginning of my journey.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:21:31] I think my first step was seeing, at least for me, it was seeing that, that racism, but I think ultimately, it, that my sort of steps were really coming to grips with what racism truly is.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:21:49] And I think. When I, what I mean by that is how we're defining it. Right? And so I ended up, you know, I didn't really know that I was defining it then, but, but ultimately, the way we can define racism is, is a powerful collection of racist policies that lead to racial inequities and are substantiated by, by racist ideas. And I think in order for us to become aware of racism, we have to know what racism is. Right? In order for us to become aware of anything, we have to know what it is first. Right? And so really, for many of us, that's why the book was anchored in so many definitions. Clear definition so people can understand, you know, what different aspects of racism truly is.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:22:56] Yeah. And I think that's another reason, I think, why people have gravitated to, to, to my book, you know, and others like it is, is that it's one thing for us, for people to try to get them themselves to believe that, I need to stop believing that there is something wrong with black people.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:23:21] It, you know, it's another thing for us to teach people the affirmative of what they should be believed. So, you know, as opposed to being like, you know, stop believing in racial hierarchy. We should be encouraging people to start believing that the racial groups are equals. And, because what that, that is going to literally, it's a completely different perspective that not only do you drive in the, drive out the previous idea, but you bring in a new perspective that then can guard against the toxicity that we talked about.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:25:08] Well, I mean, when you talk about sort of the far right and particularly far right white Americans who are, and even, you, you have their approach to anti-racism, historically, has been to discredit and destroy those who are articulating, you know, an Antiracist perspective and to figure out ways to, to do so typically by completely misrepresenting what the person is saying and then sort of parroting that out and then challenging that. So, you know, that's to be expected. You certainly have many black conservatives who have really tried, let me say, black conservatives who for decades have been saying these are all the things that are inferior about black people. These are all the things that are wrong with black people.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:27:00] Well, I mean, I think for, for folks on the right. I mean, you know, they're going to use statistics to substantiate their idea that there's something wrong with black people as opposed to the policies that they're supporting. Right? And, you know, and so continuing, I mean, you know, like I said, when you have, you know, black conservatives who for years have been trafficking an anti-blackness. When I stand up and say, well, actually, you're being racist too. When other people are saying they can't be racist because they're black. They're not going to like me. They actually prefer the perspective that they can't be racist because they know white supremacists, in particular, view them as having more credibility within that type of intellectual environment where apparently black people can't be racist and all black people are experts on racism.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:27:59] But when you discredit that, it undermines their positionality. And so they're very upset at me. Then you also have many people who haven't read my book, but they've heard, you know, someone else say something about it. And so they, you know, if you don't really read the book, I can see how people can think all types of things, you know, about it. And I've actually, so for some, I'm not going to respond to somebody who's critical, you know, of my book that they haven't read. I'm just not going to, you know, I'm just not going to do that. And so I think those have been the three biggest sort of groups that have been the most sort of angry. And, and obviously, I think among those who have actually taken the time to really, you know, read the book or open, been open, you know, I suspect they may not think that my work is perfect. No one, no one's is, but they know, or they can see how it can be certainly helpful.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:31:24] I really do. The other day I saw that, you know, Ava DuVernay tweeted, after Trump was diagnosed with COVID that she, she, she, she, she said, you know, she, she wished him to get well. But then she also spoke about all of the atrocities that he's brought to sort of the world. And, and so someone sort of attacked her by saying, are you insane? How could you wish the person well, who was, you know, behind, you know, what happened to the, to the Central Park Five? And, and, you know, and, you know, of course, Ava with responded with grace and said that, you know, she's not going to wish death on anyone, you know, that's how she's been taught. And I mentioned that, you know, because, you know, for somebody to, I could see right, there, there have been people who, you know, simply would just wish the president well. Right? And then that's it. But for somebody who, to wish them well, human being to human being, and then to critique him and say, but these are all the horrible things that you've done.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:32:52] And I want to make mention to that. And for, for a person to decide to attack her as opposed to the people just wishing him well.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:32:59] I think is a perfect sort of example of where people are sort of standing and, and I think also that, you know, to your point. In academia, there's this sort of term called "the armchair intellectual".
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:33:20] Which is, which is essentially like, you know, someone who critiques everybody, critiques movement, critiques organizers, critiques everyone from their chairs, doesn't ever go out into the street and organize or challenge power in any sort of direct way. And they are able to imagine themselves as deeply progressive and radical. Why? Because they're actually not doing anything that can be critiqued in their mind. Right? And I mention this because, you know, fundamental, it's just like, you know, it's one thing, a critic who's written a book, to critic someone else's book. It's another thing for somebody to just sit back, refuse to produce anything, and then critique all the folks who are producing. And so that's why for me, I, I want people, and I want to encourage people to be on the side of organizing. To be on the side of producing, to be on the side of creating, to be on the side of directly challenging power and not really just sitting in their homes on their Twitter feed and critiquing those folks who are actually organizing and producing and creating, and who are challenging power. We need you with us.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:34:50] Precisely.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:35:59] So-.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:36:07] Yeah. So I think part of the, I think one of the things I think we need to recognize, you know, people would say something like, well, I just, you know, that system is broken, and so therefore, you know, I'm not going to participate in that broken system. And, you know, how dare you encourage me to participate in that broken system? The problem is that, that is, the premise of that is fundamentally flawed. Everyone needs to realize that you are actually participating in the system, so there's no leaving the system. There's no stepping outside of the system, meaning-.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:37:07] Well, I mean, I was going to say that, whether you vote or don't vote, that's going to have an impact. And so it's not as if, for instance, if you say, you know what? You know, those two teams are playing this game. And, you know, I'm not going to contribute or participate, you know, in the game. And so I'm going to go home. That's actually not the way it actually works. What happens is you're still going to be in the game. Even if you choose not to dribble the ball, you're still on the court. Meaning whether you vote or don't vote, it's going to have an impact on the outcome. And that's one of the things I think it's important for people to realize, so I could see is a person was like, you know what? I recognize that by not voting if I was, you now, let's say if I was to vote, I would vote for a particular candidate. And I recognized by not voting that the other candidate is more likely to win and, and there, and so I am choosing and I'm OK with that. And then you give your reasons sort of why, you know, that, that's a demonstration of you have a consciousness that, that what you're actually doing is going to actually have an impact. But when you create this scenario in which no, I'm just not participating in this broken system, that's actually, you're actually participating by not participating.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:38:40] Right? And so it's, I just want people to have a clear understanding of that. And have a clear understanding of how power sort of operates, you know, in this country. And I think oftentimes, you know, people do not.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:39:32] And let me just say, I think for many people who imagine themselves as radical and I say that, who imagine themselves as radical. I think what Ava spoke to is, in fact, they're deeply conservative. In other words, what they actually do or don't do conserve fascism. And so I think, you know, we need to really, you know, I think one of the things that I've been trying to encourage people to think about, particularly in the realm of being racist or Antiracist, is, is for them to think about what they're saying and what they're doing and what the impact of that is. That's not, not how I identify. Not what I sort of, you know, who I feel I'm connected to. Fundamentally, what is the impact of this decision? Is it going to lead to inequity or equity? Is it going to me to justice or injustice? And I think that if people would have that perspective and this isn't really, you know, necessarily about voting, this is, you know, in general, because to me, you also have folks who vote but don't do anything else. Right? They, you know, they, they only vote. But then they despise those young people who don't vote, but who demonstrate. Like when demonstrations are part of the political process. And so they imagine that they're superior to that young person who doesn't vote who, but who does, you know, engage in political activism. When that's a, you know, it's a different form of political engagement. I wish that people would be both. Right?
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:41:11] And not sort of look down or disregard others because there are many different forms of political engagement that we need to be focused on. And certainly just voting and just leaving, and then leaving your power in the voting booth is certainly not something that we should be advocating for.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:42:06] Yeah, but, but one thing I would say is, that is absolutely sort of critical. I wrote an essay earlier this year on the ways in which young people, in particular, are facing all sorts of voter suppression policies.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:42:29] Oh, so you know, for instance, so young people, in particular, are facing all sorts of voter suppression policies. To give an example, because the United States does not have a uniform voter registration system that's nationwide. If you are a person who, you know, let's say every two years you move, then you have to get reregistered in a new state, who has a different registration process. And, and young people are more likely to move than older people. So therefore, they're more likely to have to, you know, register in new states. If, if you are a young person who does most of your business online and you can't vote online, then yet again, because the United States refused to allow people to, to vote online. To me, that's another way in which the youth vote is being suppressed. So for me, I'm not, I think it's important to encourage, you know, people to be politically active in many different ways. But I think it's even more important to ensure that it's easy for people to vote. And I think that we can spend much more effective time making it easier for, for, for every single American, particularly young people and particularly young people of color who are really the primary victims of voter suppression, you know, to be able to vote.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:45:14] Oh, no. I mean, I, in many ways, I had to learn that. I, I, I remember entering into graduate school in African-American studies and in many ways, my graduate student community. Two of those sort of more influential sort of voices were these, these two students, Yaba Blay and Kaila Story, who went on to become incredible intellectuals and they were simply not going to allow black women to be demonized or to be removed from the center. And certainly the same thing about, you know, queer, queer black people and certainly transgender folks. And so, you know, for me and if anyone, you know, came to an event or during a, you know, you know, a lecture or during our conference. You know, whenever a sort of, a form of patriarchy or homophobia showed up, they showed up to challenge.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:46:27] And in many ways it was really, you know, their challenge to my sexism and homophobia, was, was just critical in me beginning that sort of process and certainly I voraciously read many of the black feminist and queer writers that they cited when they would, you know, and, and I've been sort of continuing to sort of read and try to over, try to, trying to sort of overcome this ingrained patriarchy and transphobia and, and certainly homophobia. And I think it's going to be a process and it remains a process for me.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:47:31] Oh, yeah. I mean, there's, I, and I, I, you know, I've certainly gotten pushback from, from black men who think I spend too much time speaking out against racism that's affecting, you know, black women or black transgender-.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:47:51] Women and, and so, you know, I'm, I'm really getting it from all sides.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:48:03] Yeah. But, I mean, it is what it is. I mean, you know, there certainly, there is, there are men who, who imagined to be, to be human is to be man. And so when they think of human rights, they're thinking about rights for men, just like there, there are women who, when they think of women's rights, they really think of white women's rights. And so they're really not fighting for the rights of, of women of color, just like there, there, there are black men who think black men are black people. Who think black cis gender, heterosexual men are, are black people. And so we should be fighting for those specific black people and that their lives matter. That black transgender women lives, you know, don't matter. And so they're certainly going to resist me or anyone like me who has, you know, indeed saying that all, all black sort of lives matter. Just as, you know, those white women who are saying, no, we should be fighting just for white women are going to push back against those black feminists who are saying no, like there are, there are other women that are not just white and we shouldn't be standardizing white women. And so, you know, this is certainly part of, part of the job.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:49:46] I think we have to support and join organizations, centers and other entity and institutions and institute, that literally are organized to challenge racism. Because they're going to carry it forward. We can't do it on our own. And so at least in this moment, we can make those organizations and those, those spaces and those institutions stronger so that they can carry on this fight when the attention of the nation shifts to something else.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:51:38] Well, and that's the question. You have individuals who are building themselves. You have individuals who are building institutions and organizations.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:51:52] And I think that oftentimes the individuals who are building themselves are going after those who are building organizations and institutions and, but those who are building institutions and organizations and centers to carry on, to literally bring, you know, create organized power that can challenge the organized power racism. We need, that's where we need to focus. You know, we can't, you know, we can't focus on destructive criticism.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:52:57] Well, I mean, our center, our BU Center for Antiracist Research, is, it's literally, we're really building ourselves to track very closely racial disparities, to access the policies leading to those disparities, to propose corrective Antiracist policies, to sort of narrate those solutions and the research they're based on to the world and work very closely with advocacy groups to get those policies instituted. So really we're building these pillars of research, policy, narrative and advocacy. And you can certainly, you know, donate and support, donate to our Center for Antiracist Research. Google it. You can find us. And, and certainly you can apply to work with us now. And, you know, you should sort of do that, support us, support other racial justice organizations in your own community, because we need your support.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:54:11] Exactly. I mean, you know, it, it is those who can claim that somehow our Antiracist fight for equity and justice is somehow racist. They clearly define racist as anyone who is challenging racism.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:54:39] I do, and I believe in order to bring about change, we have to believe it's possible.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:54:51] Yeah. I have to go put her down.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:54:57] So I weigh what I'm doing for everyday people who are struggling, you know, under the knee, you know, of racism. You know, what am I doing for them and how am I working to change policy to, to, to, to give them a better and freer and more just and more equitable life. That's what really this is all about.
- IBRAM X KENDI [00:55:30] Definitely. Thank you so much for having me.
Guests
Episode Photos
Earwolf
Newsletter Signup