EP. S2E57 — The Making of ‘Jury Duty’ w/ Jake Szymanski

Jake Szymanski [00:00:03] It was a long process because you’re looking for someone that has never done jury duty, doesn’t watch a lot of TV hopefully– 

Ashley Ray [00:00:12] That was the tough part for me because the second I walked in there, I would have been like, “Oh my God, you were on Parks and Recreation. I would have been like, “Oh, Mekki, we’ve done shows together. How are you doing? I love your stand-up.” Welcome to TV, I Say with Ashley Ray–your go-to podcast for discovering what to watch on TV and getting behind the scenes insight from the people who make the shows you love. You just heard a little tease of my chat with actor, writer, director, and producer Jake Szymanski, who most recently directed the Emmy nominated Jury Duty. I am obsessed with this show. It is one of the most complicated shows to describe. It is half prank show, half written reality show, and also actually a show about just a guy who’s really nice and really cool. Oh, and also James Marsden is there. And it’s on Freevee, something you maybe haven’t heard of. But magically the show blew up. It became an Emmy nominee. And now I’m going to talk to Jake about all the things that make the show so funny and so special. Jake Szymanski, welcome to TV Club. Before we dive in, do you want to tell us a little about yourself and Jury Duty, which we’re here to talk about, but don’t limit yourself to that. Feel free to be more expansive.  

Jake Szymanski [00:01:34] Oh my gosh. What an open-ended question. Yeah. Hi. Thanks for having me. I directed this crazy show, Jury Duty, that’s out right now, which I’m so excited that people seem to be watching. I came up in the comedy scene. My background is kind of comedy and documentary. I worked for, like, a lot of documentary filmmakers back in the early days as well. So that’s why A show like Jury Duty was so fun for me. But, you know, yeah, I got my start out here in LA working for Funny or Die, the comedy website. That started.  

Ashley Ray [00:02:08] We all remember. 

Jake Szymanski [00:02:10] And then I spent some time on SNL. And I’ve done some movies and some TV shows, including some mockumentaries for HBO that I really enjoy. And that’s kind of part of what led me to Jury Duty, which is, like, this scripted TV show but with a real person who doesn’t know they’re in the show. So, it’s also kind of done documentary style. That led me to that. And that’s kind of the short version of how I ended up working on this.  

Ashley Ray [00:02:35] Yeah, I fell in love with Jury Duty immediately. I had no idea what to expect. I just saw it on Freevee–a thing that is also confusing in its own right.  

Jake Szymanski [00:02:46] And was kind of brand new.  

Ashley Ray [00:02:47] Totally brand new. I had only watched maybe two other Freevee shows, like Primo and Sprung, which was really funny. But I kind of thought of it like, “Oh, it’s, like, a sitcom thing. That’s their way to do that.” So, I start watching Jury Duty, and I’m just like, “What is this weird show? What is happening here?” If you’re not familiar with Jury Duty, which… Where have you been? What, you haven’t been listening to the podcast? Because I talked about it every episode, basically. But if you’re not familiar, it’s essentially about a guy who gets Jury Duty. He thinks it’s a legit case and a legit court, but everyone is an actor, comedian–a lot of comics that I personally love. David Brown, who’s amazing.  

Jake Szymanski [00:03:26] Incredible.  

Ashley Ray [00:03:27] From Chicago, a comic that I used to do shows with. And so, I was pulled in immediately when I saw him. 

Jake Szymanski [00:03:32] I didn’t know you did shows with David.  Also, from just outside of Chicago. Evanston.   

Ashley Ray [00:03:36] Joseph went to Northwestern with Sarah Sherman. And I used to do shows with the Shrimp Boys.  

Jake Szymanski [00:03:42] Oh, I didn’t know that. That’s amazing.  

Ashley Ray [00:03:43] Yeah. Yeah. And I just thought, “He’s so, so funny.” And when I saw him in the show, I was just like, “What is he going to do in this weird thing? David’s not somebody who’d prank people. He’s a nice boy.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:03:56] I think with a lot of people–friends of mine or, you know, the actors who would share these stories to me when they were kind of telling people–I think a lot of people referred to it as a prank show or they would hear the description. And, you know, we never thought of it as a prank show. We were never trying to make a prank show because I do think… And don’t get me wrong, I’ve watched some prank shows. I’ve enjoyed some prank shows, but I don’t think… No one involved in making Jury Duty was interested in making a prank show.  

Ashley Ray [00:04:23] And that is what makes it so special because Ronald–the guy at the center of it–is just so earnest. And it’s so clear everyone is guiding him to either be a good person or there’s these opportunities where he could be a jerk and he doesn’t take them. And then slowly you realize he really cares about all these people. Like, that was the first thing I said to David was just, like, “I feel like he truly, truly cares about you as a person.” Like, he wakes up wondering if you’re okay.  

Jake Szymanski [00:04:53] Well, David–his character, Todd, is the perfect example of what a gem we found in Ronald because we were looking for a nice person. We were looking for someone like Ronald. And then he kept surprising us by going the extra step, right? So, David’s character, Todd, who wears the chair pants, who’s this goofy guy– And we actually cut it from the show. I think we revealed it later. But, you know, he was also a known felon in the courtroom. And so, the plan was always that we would put Ronald in situations where he would end up taking Todd under his wing and kind of advocating for him. But we planned on that happening later in the show. And Ronald just started doing it in, like, Episode One. We’re like, “Oh my gosh, he’s already on board.”  

Ashley Ray [00:05:37] Right away, he’s just like, “Buddy, I’m here for you.” And I was like, “I love this guy. I’m all in on this show.” And once it’s established, like, “This isn’t a prank show, it’s something completely different,” I fell in love with it. And then I was so excited to see everyone else fall in love with it. I mean, the response I feel like was not anything I’ve seen for anything else on Freevee. And then all of a sudden, to me, you were the, like, underdogs at the Emmy noms. I did not expect people to recognize the brilliance of the show, so I was so happy to see you get that Best Comedy nom. How did that feel?  

Jake Szymanski [00:06:09] I mean, it felt amazing. We were all kind of floored. I mean, when we were making the show, even like you said, it’s hard to even describe completely what the show is. People ultimately just kind of have to watch it to see what it is. It’s not a simple logline because it’s so many things. Yes, it’s a reality show, but no, it’s a scripted comedy. And it’s definitely not a prank show, but we are revealing something to a real person. It’s all these things mixing together.  

Ashley Ray [00:06:36] And there are some prankish moments. James Marsden and the toilet.  

Jake Szymanski [00:06:42] Which I thought would ruin the show. I thought that’s right when he would know something was going on.  

Ashley Ray [00:06:47] Okay, the whole time I’m just like, “Dude, come on.” But he just plays it off for Marsden.  

Jake Szymanski [00:06:54] Big props to our showrunner, Cody Heller, who insisted that we keep that beat in the show and find a way to make it work. For those who don’t know, the idea is James Marsden–playing a heightened version of James Marden in the show–clogs Ronald’s toilet with a large number two. And it’s still in the toilet as a reason it’s clogged and a reason they have to leave the room. And I was always so nervous as a moment that this could ruin the show because, you know, props made that. It was made out of clay and had to be realistic. We had, like, bad smelling poop spray and stuff that we sprayed in there. But I was like, “James, you have to, like, block him if he tries to go in that bathroom because if anyone takes kind of a close look at it that’s a very quick tell that, like, ‘Why is there a big hunk of clay in my toilet? Something’s off here.’” And it worked out great. And of course–Ronald–he’s a stand-up guy. He immediately took the blame. He didn’t want to embarrass James, so he’s like, “Let’s get out of here.” 

Ashley Ray [00:07:54] And he’s also polite about it. He’s not trying to look. He’s not trying to see it, which, you know, I would think his reaction was probably, “Oh, this is a celebrity. He’s probably worried about some sort of paparazzi photo.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:08:05] Yes! Yes! I was so nervous that that moment could sink us. And we were getting close to the end by that point. So, every moment that could sink us became, you know, we were extra nervous about it because the closer we got to the end, the more stressed we were about actually finishing because part of us didn’t think we’d make it past day one, you know? 

Ashley Ray [00:08:23] And so I’ve heard… There are rumors on many a Jury Duty for which–by the way–you have a very avid active fanbase.  

Jake Szymanski [00:08:32] I gotta get into these forums. 

Ashley Ray [00:08:35] There’s people asking a lot of questions about the show–digging into it. But people have said that you originally started with someone else, they found out really quickly what was going on, and you had to start over. Is that true?  

Jake Szymanski [00:08:47] That is not true. So, I will say right here that is not true. We did do a lot of rehearsing and practicing without Ronald in there. But no, that’s not true. Of course, there are… You know, I can easily say that’s not true, so no scandal. But there are certain, you know, production secrets that we keep as far as, like, how we do things that I won’t spill all the beans. But no, nothing that scandalous.  

Ashley Ray [00:09:13] Yeah. And I’m sure you had multiple people submit. Like, we do get to see some of Ronald’s submission tape for this, which is… 

Jake Szymanski [00:09:19] Yeah, we looked at a lot of people because as you can imagine, trying to find a Ronald is tough.  

Ashley Ray [00:09:24] And also someone who’s going to reply to that kind of ad or just want to do that is probably not going to be a great person all the time.  

Jake Szymanski [00:09:30] Well, one of our amazing producers–Alexis Sampietro–she was in charge of that and finding, you know, our potential jurors basically. And she did an incredible job. And she looked at a lot of submissions and kind of narrowed it down to who we thought would be the best and kind of then sent us the top, you know, 35, 40 to look at. And she had done long interviews with them, trying to get their vibe. And it was a long process because you’re looking for someone that, you know, has never done jury duty, doesn’t watch a lot of TV, hopefully– 

Ashley Ray [00:10:03] That was the tough part for me because the second I walked in there, I would have been like, “Oh my God, you were on Parks and Recreation. I would have been like, “Oh, Mekki, we’ve done shows together. How are you doing? I love your stand-up. Saw your Comedy Central show.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:10:16] Yes. We had to find someone who, like, wasn’t in the LA comedy scene, obviously. And then also the most important part was someone who could kind of be our moral compass. You know, the whole idea is that we’ve created these crazy characters to put on this kind of play of these moral situations around this guy. And he has to be kind of our true north of the guy who will say, “Hey, this is kind of crazy,” or “Why are you doing that?” And, you know, be our moral compass and be the hero of the show. And that ultimately was the exciting idea. I don’t know if any of us actually thought we could get there. But then, you know, every day we found ourselves getting closer and closer. And it kept working out. And we were working really hard on making it work. And it was really exciting by the end. You can see it in the reveal. There’s so much emotion in all of it. 

Ashley Ray [00:11:03] It feels so genuine when it finally comes out. 

Jake Szymanski [00:11:07] For all of us–the producers, the writers, in a control room–we were more nervous for that final reveal where our judge tells him that, “Hey, this has actually been a show, and these are actors.” We were more nervous for that than any big joke moment that we tried throughout the show. It was very emotionally intense.  

Ashley Ray [00:11:24] So when you were screening Ronald, did you screen him as a James Marsden fan, or did that just happen because the way he was so excited about James Marsden in Sex Drive…? Coming in with the movie? I was like, “Did they purposely go, ‘Okay, we got James. We gotta find someone who’s a fan.’” Like, how did that synergy happen?  

Jake Szymanski [00:11:45] No, we were not looking for, like, a James Marsden superfan by any means. But we actually screened less for the James stuff because, you know, James was always going to play himself. So, it didn’t matter if someone knew… You wanted someone to kind of know who he was a little bit–maybe not get his whole IMDb. But for example, you know, like, Mekki who’s in Sex Lives of College Girls–we’re looking for someone who hadn’t started watching that show yet. You know what I mean? Otherwise, that would have been a problem. But when we were filming, that show had just come out.  

Ashley Ray [00:12:15] Yeah. And I do know that, like, for the TikTok, Gen Z kids who do watch that show, they all were very confused. And they were just like, “Why is this Sex Lives of College Girls guy in this weird comedy show? What is the deal with it?” 

Jake Szymanski [00:12:28] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and Mekki was one of our writers, too.  

Ashley Ray [00:12:31] Yeah, I was going to ask about that. He’s one of the writers. His episode, I think, also got nominated.  

Jake Szymanski [00:12:37] Nominated for an Emmy! 

Ashley Ray [00:12:38] Yeah, And he’s an incredible writer–incredible stand-up.  

Jake Szymanski [00:12:40] So good.  

Ashley Ray [00:12:41] He’s so, so funny. And he posted some clips or photos of his scripts. And then with the episodes, you could really see how scripted it is for the actors. But then they also allow this room for Ronald to kind of play with. And I think the moment he talked about that I loved was him being like, “We wanted Ronald to say, ‘What if someone pretends to be a racist to get out of jury duty?’ And then he just brings it up.” And Mekki, I think, was like, “Oh, this is too obvious. There’s no way. If my character brings it up, it’s way too obvious–too comical.” But then Ronald does it. I mean, how did that feel to orchestrate it with the script, to see it just play out so beautifully?  

Jake Szymanski [00:13:27] Well, that was day one of filming with Ronald, so we were kind of most on our toes and nervous. And that’s right, we were all like, “Hey…” You know, we talked in the writers’ room about this beat of how do we get Ronald to suggest, like, “If you want to get out of jury duty, maybe pretend to be racist?” And we had come up with a list of things that someone could say to kind of prompt him or lead him there. And we were like, “This is going to be too much too soon.” Day one–to boil the frog, you have to go in slow, slow temperature increases, right? So, we agreed we’re pulling this. We’re not going to do it on day one. And then Mekki, to his credit–he was with us in the entire writers’ room–so he had a really good sense of the story and all the beats that we had been thinking of, whether they made it or not. They entered into a conversation where it kind of naturally led to people trying to get out of jury duty, and we weren’t trying to go there. But then when it kind of got there and Mekki saw the opportunity, he said, “I think I got to try to throw this back in and just kind of offer to him, like, “Well, what is a way I could get out of jury duty?” And then first try–right out the bat–Ronald suggests it. 

Ashley Ray [00:14:31] Ronald’s like, “Have you seen the Family Guy episode?” And the second he also said that that’s when I was like, “Oh, this is why he doesn’t recognize any of these people.” The fact that, like, a Family Guy was his first reference, I was just like, “He is the most purehearted boy.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:14:46] Yes. Well, I think it also tells you a lot about Ronald. Another thing we could not have planned for that was so great for the comedy of the show was also in that first episode–when he meets James Marsden playing James Marsden and Marsden’s being a little full of himself and going, “Oh, I thought that guy sucks because I’m in that movie. I’m in that Sonic movie.” Ronald is such a sweet guy, but he goes, “Oh, you’re in that movie? I heard it was really bad, man.” And, like, of course, you don’t say that to the star of a movie. But Ronald had no idea he was the star of that movie. He just was like, “Oh, do you have, like, a bit part in that movie?  

Ashley Ray [00:15:24] He doesn’t even realize.  

Jake Szymanski [00:15:25] Had no idea.  

Ashley Ray [00:15:27] You could tell he was not this Hollywood guy. And it’s so amazing and what makes it work?  

Jake Szymanski [00:15:32] Very refreshing.  

Ashley Ray [00:15:32] And for James, how did he get involved? Was it just you always wanted him? Did you consider other sort of, like…? 

Jake Szymanski [00:15:39] Well, there was always the idea of a celebrity on the jury because it’s a Los Angeles jury, right? And a celebrity getting to play kind of a heightened, like, slightly, you know, more full of themselves version of themselves… So, the idea of finding a celebrity was always in there. And when we started pitching around names, I mean, James was one of the first people we brought up. And part of that is our producer, Dave Bernad, is good friends with him and has worked with him before. And I had worked with him a little bit before on a project with Dave because Dave produced Tour de Pharmacy, which was a mockumentary we did for HBO. And James was in that. He played one of the British announcers doing interviews at the tour. And so, we knew him from that. And because this was also kind of a mockumentary style thing, very quickly we said, “Well, what about James?” And Dave was like, “I’m going to talk to him about it. I think he would do it.” And so, he was one of the first people we thought of. And then right away we were able to have a conversation with him. And the important thing was not only was he down to make fun of himself. I knew James could do the comedy. I had seen him on… Well, I’d seen Sex Drive. He’s so funny in that. 

Ashley Ray [00:16:49] And 30 Rock is where I fell in love with him as a comedic actor.  

Jake Szymanski [00:16:51] 30 Rock–incredible. And he was in Anchorman 2. I was around when they were shooting that. I would see him on that. And you’re like, “Oh, this guy–he doesn’t get to do a lot of pure comedies, but he’s got it.” 

Ashley Ray [00:17:01] Yeah, he’s so funny.  

Jake Szymanski [00:17:02] It’s almost unfair because he’s so dang handsome and so dang good at all the other stuff. And to also be funny? You’re like, “Come on, James. Leave some for the rest of us.” But that was the important part. It’s like, “Well, we need someone who can be funny. And he checks that box.” But the most important box he checked is kind of, like, gut check “What is this project to you?” The first thing he said to us was, “I don’t want to do anything where we’re making fun of someone the whole time.” And that was our rule as well. That’s how each of us individually got involved. When I first got the pitch, I said, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don’t want to do something where we’re torturing someone for weeks. Like, that’s not going to be fun.” And it was like, “No, no, no, no. We’re trying to, like, give someone a great– Make them a hero. Give them a hero’s journey. They get off at the end of a really fun roller coaster and go, ‘Whoa, that was for me? What a fun party.’” You know what I mean?  

Ashley Ray [00:17:48] And they get money.  

Jake Szymanski [00:17:49] And they get money. But the fact that James–that’s the first question he asked–that was also really important to know, like, “Okay, we’re on the same page about that.” 

Ashley Ray [00:17:56] And then, I mean, on top of that, though, I feel like if anyone is made fun of, it’s James. He ends up being kind of the villain in a lot of situations and moments. I think the episode where he destroys the cake and thinks everyone is there for him and Ronald just, like, saves the situation and saves the day was so incredible. For James, what was it like being like, “Okay, I understand I’m going to make fun of myself here, but also I’m going to really look like a jerk to this guy”?  

Jake Szymanski [00:18:26] I mean, right from the get-go, he told us, “I am down to make an ass of myself. Like, that’s hilarious to me–sending up Hollywood and the entitlement that actors can get. I’m always down to make fun of myself.” So that was number one. Very cool of him, right? He’s down for that comedy.  

Ashley Ray [00:18:43] Oh my God, he’s so cool.  

Jake Szymanski [00:18:44] And number two, it was like, “But I want to really make sure Ronald’s never the butt of the joke and we’re taking it out on him.” And so, he was a perfect fit for it. He was just down immediately. And things like that cake toss were actually moments where we all–the producers, the writers, James–got really worried, “Oh no, did we go too far?” because the truth of the matter is, no one really could have predicted how much the cast and Ronald were going to care for each other by the end of this.  

Ashley Ray [00:19:15] They truly become best friends.  

Jake Szymanski [00:19:16] They truly become friends. And so, this cake flip–this big, like, James being an ass at a party thing–was really funny to us as a scene idea. And I totally understand why we wrote it the way we did it and why we tried to pull it off. But Ronald got really hurt by, like, “God, why would this guy do this to these people?” You know what I mean? It wasn’t just like when you’re watching TV, you see the scene, and you’re like, “All right, but I know they’re going to make up the next scene. It’s okay.” Like, there’s the human element of it. So, we immediately had to pivot and have James come back with another cake and pull Ronald aside and just fully mea culpa apologize, like, “Hey, what I did was out of line–I’m really sorry I did that,” and, like, just let Ronald know that even though he’s playing a version of himself, even that version of himself has some humanity.  

Ashley Ray [00:19:59] And he’s like, “I messed up.” And that, I think, is the moment where you really see them become friends, even with James Marsden. And when I finished it, I felt like Ronald wasn’t upset that everyone had, like, done this to him and kind of lied to him. It felt like he just felt like he had missed out on something all of his friends did. He was just like, “Oh, you guys were doing this without me? It was so fun.” That was the feeling I got.  

Jake Szymanski [00:20:24] I think that’s accurate. And he looks back as, like, “Man, this is one of the coolest things. I lived one of the best times in my life.” The only thing that he was worried about was, “Wait a minute. I thought I really got to know some people here.” And that would have been a huge bummer, I think, if he found out those connections weren’t real. But so much of what we filmed–we were filming for three weeks straight with him–so much of what we filmed isn’t in the show. And so much of what our actors were doing was being 90% themselves.  

Ashley Ray [00:20:50] Yeah, that’s what I was going to say.  

Jake Szymanski [00:20:51] And then throwing a little character heightening on top of it.  

Ashley Ray [00:20:53] Yeah, like, I know David. He is that nice and sweet, and he’s a great guy.  

Jake Szymanski [00:20:58] Yes. But that made it great because the connections were real. You know what I mean? Like, the names were different, but the connection… It was a little bit like, you know, the end of a ’90s teen movie where, like, the guy takes the girl to the prom. He’s like, “Yeah, it started as a bet, but the feelings are real. I fell in love with you.” Like, there’s a little bit of that where it’s like, “We really hope we don’t offend you, but everyone does sincerely love you and want to keep hanging out.”  

Ashley Ray [00:21:21] And I think seeing the audience kind of afterwards look at pictures of the cast, like, hanging out together and being like, “Okay, James is still friends with him. Like, okay, it’s all good. Like, as long as…” Because that to me was the thing that I was just like, “He loves James–clearly thinks they’re best friends. And what is going to happen when he realizes it was just Marsden in the role of a lifetime?” 

Jake Szymanski [00:21:41] The biggest thing for Ronald was realizing, “Oh, thank God he’s not actually that big of a jerk.” So, he was relieved. He’s like, “Oh, I actually can be friends with him because–I don’t know–I was getting kind of sick of this guy.” 

Ashley Ray [00:21:52] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that was my only concern. And when I saw James do an interview, that was like, “I still hang out with him–we still talk,” I was like, “Okay, he’s a good guy.” He has to be friends with Ronald for life. Like, when Ronald gets married, he has to be the best man at his wedding. It’s kind of required at this point.  

Jake Szymanski [00:22:08] We got to film that moment. We gotta get that guy hitched and get James in there. James is a great guy. And the whole cast… Look, it was tricky enough to find a cast that was talented enough and funny enough and committed enough to be able to pull this off–all while still being relatively unknown to certain people like Ronald. That was a really fine needle to thread. That was tough. But the other element is they all kind of had to be good people, who were on the same page about what we were doing and how we were going to do it. And that’s the reason why they’re all really real friends. You know what I mean? We had to make sure–I mean, for lack of a better term–the group had a good vibe.  

Ashley Ray [00:22:54] Exactly.  

Jake Szymanski [00:22:54] And that was part of the casting.  

Ashley Ray [00:22:55] If one person threw the vibe off–if one person was too mean–it could give the whole thing away. It just is also wonderfully orchestrated and, I think, just shows the power of writers and of actors. And then obviously the show comes out during this dual strike moment that we’re having. But it’s also tonally so weird that I think so many people watching it didn’t think there were writers. They didn’t think these people were actors. Some people were like, “They’re just improvising everything. What do we need writers for?”  

Jake Szymanski [00:23:26] Yeah, definitely not the point we’re making. We definitely had a WGA writer’s room with a lot of hard WGA writers working on it. The writing of the show was so incredibly important to it. And you can kind of tell, like, in the earlier episodes, things are even more scripted. Like, everything in court is basically pretty scripted because we can control that and know who’s talking when, right? That’s more of a show for Ronald, right? And a lot of the character interactions were scripted, or we’d script specific lines or jokes back and forth and say, like, “Just get to this and then say this.” Find your way. You can improvise how to get here. And then you hear your lines, right? So, the scripts were the spine for everything. It was just once Ronald came in and we added this real personal element, things started changing. Things we thought we would do on day three, we had to push and do on day seven and vice versa. And then certain things we had to invent and follow, and we’d be writing up new beats and lines to give to the actors every night. So, the actors were incredible because obviously there was a ton of improvisation. But there was, you know, rough goalposts on how we’re going to get there.  

Ashley Ray [00:24:34] And now you’re kind of forced to navigate For Your Consideration season by yourself as a director.  

Jake Szymanski [00:24:40] I know. It’s really wild. It is so important that we’re striking right now–that the WGA and SAG is striking. And it’s also so sad–specifically, our show was such a tiny, little experiment that took so much hard work and dedication. I’m so proud of the cast and the writers and producers, and I wish they could be talking more about the show. It’s important that they’re on strike and following those rules right now, but I just hope they get all their dues, and everyone is appreciating all their work. And that’s the reason why I am excited to talk about it. I wish they could all be talking about it. And I just hope people realize how incredible it is–what they pulled off.  

Ashley Ray [00:25:25] Truly, so much work goes into it. That’s why I wanted to have you on because I was like, “I got to talk to someone about the show. I can’t talk to the actors.” Sorry. I asked David first, no offense. But he couldn’t do it. And I feel like the show blew up because of word of mouth. It was truly just people going, “Have you seen this thing that’s happening every week on Prime?”  

Jake Szymanski [00:25:44] It’s my favorite thing to ask people how they heard about it. I got my start back at Funny or Die, and we got very good at, like, making stuff that would, quote unquote, “go viral.” And you refresh the view count and see how many people are watching. And then all of a sudden it can become a news story, and that makes more people watching. And the news is about how many people are watching it. The show came out, and it was like déjà vu. I was like, “What is this feeling? Oh yeah, it’s that old feeling of, like, feeling something go viral.” I could feel it by the texts and emails that were coming in and the posts I would see retweeted, like, “Man, this is really spreading, and people are hearing about it just from other people.” You could kind of tell our first weekend out, it blew up really big on TikTok. And you could kind of tell, like, “Oh, the younger kids are really pushing this right now. And oh, now the college students have it by halfway through the week.” And by a week and a half, all of a sudden, my mom was hearing about it from friends of hers.  

Ashley Ray [00:26:39] This made me feel really old because I don’t think I jumped in until week three. So…  

Jake Szymanski [00:26:43] Well, you know, I was getting texts from an old high school friend, and she’s like, “I heard about this from my mom group. And then I realized I’d seen you post about it, and you were involved.” And I was like, “We hit the Illinois mom groups? Like, this is big.” 

Ashley Ray [00:26:57] That’s how you know.  

Jake Szymanski [00:26:58] And then you could even tell in this town, it’s like the assistants found out about it. And then they told their bosses. And they got up the next week and finally watched it. You know what I mean? And it’s been really fun. It was really fun to feel that. Every week we thought it would peak, and then every week it kept going. And it’s just been a fun little ride to be on because it’s very easy for this show to become kind of a culty, cool thing. 

Ashley Ray [00:27:23] That’s how I thought it was going to happen. I was like, “I’m watching the next, like, cult hit. No one is going to know about this show.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:27:29] We did not think anyone would see this show, you know what I mean? And Freevee is a new streaming app. People didn’t even really have an awareness of that. 

Ashley Ray [00:27:37] It’s hard to understand that it’s part of Prime Video.  

Jake Szymanski [00:27:40] How are people going to find this? So, we thought we kind of had everything going against us. We’re like, “Well, it’s not a reality show, but it is different than a regular sitcom. It’s on a thing called Freevee, which you might not have heard about yet. And James Marsden is in it, but he plays himself.” There’s so many caveats to explain it. 

Ashley Ray [00:27:56] Yeah. And then also, you know, I feel like the weekly model helped it blow up. You know, I thought when I came in there were, I think, four or five episodes. So as soon as I fell in love with it, I was just like, “Okay, here we go. I get to really binge this.” And then I caught up, and it was like, “Oh my gosh, what do you mean I have to wait now?” How did you feel about that release model? Were you curious if it would have a difference if it had been released in the binge model?  

Jake Szymanski [00:28:19] You know, I don’t know because… Well, I was happy they spread out the release, but I think they released the first two at once or the first three at once. So, I do think because the show is kind of different–we present it in a different way than you’re used to–I am glad that people were able to watch more than one episode at once. I think seeing the first two when you’re first watching it kind of helped you understand what we’re doing. So that was important. I mean, in hindsight, a lot of people found it, so I can’t really say I wish it went another way.  

Ashley Ray [00:28:49] Yeah, see, I’m a big fan of the weekly release. I’m trying to get us to go back to it. I think it’s what makes TV shows work.  

Jake Szymanski [00:28:57] Crazy anticipation. We’re talking about it in between.  

Ashley Ray [00:28:58] Yeah, you get to have the conversation–share the clips–before people are like, “Already watched that. I finished that weeks ago, and I forgot about it already. I don’t remember those moments.” And that’s why we all love And Just Like That every week. That’s why we all sit down to talk about it.  

Jake Szymanski [00:29:12] Obviously, we all know we’re watching And Just Like That.  

Ashley Ray [00:29:15] Clearly. Clearly. The finale just aired this weekend.  

Jake Szymanski [00:29:19] You didn’t even need to say that because we all clearly know. 

Ashley Ray [00:29:23] So the show is written. There’s a script. I was curious, are there any real court shows? Did you watch a lot of Court TV, which is now Investigation Discovery and not Court TV, which I know because I’m so young and cool? Were you watching, like, Night Court?  

Jake Szymanski [00:29:39] No, not really Night Court? No. I mean, I’m trying to think of…  

Ashley Ray [00:29:44] That’s sad because the Night Court reboot and Jury Duty–that was a nice little treat. I loved watching them together.  

Jake Szymanski [00:29:48] Well, you know, before we came on, the biggest show on Freevee was Judy Justice.  

Ashley Ray [00:29:54] Yeah, which plays automatically when you finish Jury Duty. Yes.  

Jake Szymanski [00:29:59] So it’s very court-based TV on the network already. 

Ashley Ray [00:30:01] There was a moment when the episode of Jury Duty– I didn’t notice that it had ended. And then I just saw Judy Justice. And it went into that show, and I was just like, “Wait, wait, wait. Is she involved in this now? And is this part of it”? And then slowly I was like, “Oh, no, it’s just the auto play.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:30:21] An hour after the show came out, you have these phone calls. You check in with the network–with Freevee–about how the show is doing because, you know, streamers don’t tell you how many people are watching and stuff, so you can never know. And I didn’t even want to know. All I cared about–I said, “Look, all I want to know is has Judge Judy watched the show? Do you guys know–has Judge Judy watched?” And they said, “We heard she has, and she liked it. One of her grandkids told her about it apparently.” 

Ashley Ray [00:30:47] Oh my goodness.  

Jake Szymanski [00:30:48] So I don’t know if that’s true. I hope it is.  

Ashley Ray [00:30:50] I hope that’s true.  

Jake Szymanski [00:30:51] Big Judge Judy fan.  

Ashley Ray [00:30:53] Hey, all the groups out there–all the Jury Duty fans listening–it’s true. Judge Judy loves Jury Duty.  

Jake Szymanski [00:30:59] I hope so. I mean, come on.  

Ashley Ray [00:31:01] I mean, yeah.  

Jake Szymanski [00:31:02] I did hear that we were popular in the legal community, which makes me very happy. I met a judge here in Los Angeles who said that everyone had been talking about it. And then I did, like, a Zoom meeting–I don’t know, maybe two or three weeks after we came out–and the person I had a meeting with was like, “I’m so sorry to do this. My wife is on the call. She is actually a defender. She works down at the courthouse. And she heard I was doing a meeting with you. And she just had to Zoom in and say hi. They love the show down there.” 

Ashley Ray [00:31:33] Yeah, I know two defense attorneys who love the show.  

Jake Szymanski [00:31:37] I love that we made something that seemed either authentic enough or to make fun of the right things enough that it’s popular in that community. You know what I mean? There was a woman that was walking me through a live courthouse and taking me to the bailiffs, and she was like, “Oh, me and this bailiff watch it. We talk about it all the time.” And I was like, “I can’t believe it. Like, court is in session right now.” But I’m very proud that lawyers and judges and bailiffs are watching the show.  

Ashley Ray [00:32:02] I mean, to me, it seemed like it was pretty legit. Like, you guys did your research on how a court should run. 

Jake Szymanski [00:32:07] Well, a huge part of that is our cast, who helped with a lot of that legal mumbo jumbo. So, Trisha LaFache who plays our prosecution attorney, Evan Williams, who plays our defense attorney, Shaun Sanders, and then, you know, Alan Barinholtz, who plays our judge, who is Ike Barinholtz’s father–they all have real legal backgrounds. So, they’re all trained lawyers, and we needed that because a lot of what you don’t see in the show is the hours of legal jargon that they’re performing in front of this jury. And so, we needed people who really had that training and experience who could help us. You know, we could say, like, “Well, we want to say this. The TV version would be he says this. Is that right?” And they could say, “Well, let me lead in like this and get you there,” so that we could still kind of ride that line where not everything we did was pure courtroom accurate. But it was enough that it would seem believable to somebody.  

Ashley Ray [00:33:02] Yeah, I mean, you had to get the jokes in. And just the horrible attorney that the defendant has. That, for me, was one of the moments where I was like, “This guy can’t tell this is not a real lawyer.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:33:15] Evan Williams–also one of our writers who’s incredible and was a practicing attorney in Georgia, I believe. And he just nailed it. I mean, so perfect. And he was like, “I’m telling you, dude, I’ve seen people like this. I’ve seen lawyers in court who are talking to other judges because they got too much on their plate.” And you kind of can’t believe it’s real. But, you know, the court system–when you’re actually there–it’s more messy and office-like than you’d care to believe it is.  

Ashley Ray [00:33:46] Yeah. And it’s not high jinks like Night Court.  

Jake Szymanski [00:33:49] Not always fun high jinks. 

Ashley Ray [00:33:53] How did you decide on the type of case that you used? Did you know you wanted to do, like, a civil case? To me, I also thought the case was so silly. I thought, “Come on. How can he not…? This guy just was passed out, and all this stuff is so crazy.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:34:11] Well, keep in mind, again, we’re showing you the silliest parts, right? And we had a lot of non-silly stuff in between. I think legally, for some reason there was something about it had to be a civil trial and not a, like murder trial. There was some worry about, you know… The lawyers told us, “Hey, it’s got to be civil trial.” 

Ashley Ray [00:34:35] Fair enough. 

Jake Szymanski [00:34:39] So we gave them that one, and we did a civil trial. But yeah, I mean, you know, those animations are some of the most fun to me putting together that they show early on. But high-end lawyers really do do that. They’ll make 3D model animations to try to explain what they’re going to say happened and what their case is. So, we said, “Let’s run with that.” And I had worked with an animation house back for the mockumentary I did with Andy Samberg called Seven Days in Hell.  

Ashley Ray [00:35:05] Oh. Amazing doc.  

Jake Szymanski [00:35:05] And we have a Swedish prison break sequence presented as an animation sequence from a new show. And we had those guys, and I said, “Let’s go back to these guys. They do great work. And let’s make some courtroom animations.” And it was a lot of fun.  

Ashley Ray [00:35:20] It’s one of the best scenes. It’s just one of those moments where even the jury just seems like they feel so bad for the guy. And Ronald–does he want to yell? I would just want to be like, “Are we serious right now?” 

Jake Szymanski [00:35:35] And that was, you know, pretty early on because that’s early days of the case. So, he was definitely still trying to be the best juror he could be. I think if we had actually pulled the videos out later–like towards the end of the trial–he would be like, “What is going on?” because we had stretched that trial so long. 

Ashley Ray [00:35:50] So long, especially the visit to the factory and them finding these barrels. Especially finding the barrels, I was like, “Okay, Ronald. Okay.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:36:01] He jumped on it, though.  

Ashley Ray [00:36:02] He did. He did. And he was like, “We need to tell people about this.” But that’s when I was like, “Come on, man.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:36:11] And we had the cast ready to really push the barrels. Like Ishmel, who played Lonnie–one of his main roles as the character was to really push ideas towards Ronald.  

Ashley Ray [00:36:23] And he does that really well. He’s the one who’s like, “Oh man, I don’t believe them. I think they are lying.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:36:29] Ronald was kind of already there. Like, he would reinforce it, but that’s why they actually became such good buddies, you know, in the world they were living in because Ronald did not need a big push to get there.  

Ashley Ray [00:36:40] Yeah. Like, he was already doubting this rich lady.  

Jake Szymanski [00:36:45] Because I was worried. I was like, “Is this too black and white? Is she too clearly evil? Is he too sympathetic?” But somehow it all worked out.  

Ashley Ray [00:36:54] It all worked out. It’s such a great show. And if you haven’t watched it, you need to. But if you listen to this podcast, you watched Jury Duty because I have literally told you to a million times. So, we also want to know what else you’re watching outside of Jury duty when you’re not thinking about this show that you worked on. And hey, if we’re getting a second season, if you want to tell us… 

Jake Szymanski [00:37:15] Fingers crossed. I mean, we’re in strike right now, so we gotta get this strike resolved so we can actually get some writers together and meet and think about it and talk about it. 

Ashley Ray [00:37:24] But you’re thinking about it. I think a lot of people say a premise like this is so big. And when the show blows up and is getting Emmy nominations, how can you do it again?  

Jake Szymanski [00:37:33] Yeah, I mean, certainly, I don’t know fully. I can’t say that I know. I don’t know if we’d go into the courtroom again. I don’t know if it would be a jury again.  

Ashley Ray [00:37:46] A DMV.  

Jake Szymanski [00:37:46] Yeah. Something boring. Public works like that. Yeah.  

Ashley Ray [00:37:50] There you go. City hall. Yeah. You can use these ideas for your pitches.  

Jake Szymanski [00:37:55] Yeah, we’re going to talk about this.  

Ashley Ray [00:37:57] But what shows have you been watching?  

Jake Szymanski [00:37:59] Well, you know, I’m in that… What have I been watching recently? So, because of the Emmy nomination, later tonight, I’m doing a panel where we’re talking about Jury Duty. And the panel is also about Vanderpump Rules. And Lisa Vanderpump is going to be on this panel and I… 

Ashley Ray [00:38:17] Why this panel together? You and that show?  

Jake Szymanski [00:38:21] I think the idea is they’re a reality show and we are not a reality show. We’re more of a scripted comedy show, but we have reality elements. And how do we both…? The idea of making storylines in unusual production ways, right? Like, still tracking characters and doing that. So, I don’t know exactly how it’s going to go. But I realized, “I hear everyone talking about the show. I haven’t watched it.” 

Ashley Ray [00:38:46] Oh yeah. It’s a big deal.  

Jake Szymanski [00:38:48] The last week of my life, I binged the entire latest season. Just the latest season.  

Ashley Ray [00:38:53] I was like, “There’s ten seasons.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:38:54] So I went, “Oh, what am I going to do? I should really check in on this beyond just the internet memes that I’ve seen.” And I decided I’ll just watch the latest season. And oh boy, what a roller coaster. Talk about diving into the deep end.  

Ashley Ray [00:39:08] It’s the season to watch.  

Jake Szymanski [00:39:09] And watching two episodes, three episodes a night and just trying to crank through this. I’m in Vanderpump Land right now in my brain.  

Ashley Ray [00:39:15] I mean, did you hear today? Raquel and Rachel–they’re not coming back to film next season.  

Jake Szymanski [00:39:19] I did not hear that. Wait, Raquel and Rachel? They’re the same person. No, different.  

Ashley Ray [00:39:22] They’re different.  

Jake Szymanski [00:39:24] Wait, which one’s Raquel? Raquel’s name is Rachel. Really, though, right? Isn’t it? I don’t know.  

Ashley Ray [00:39:30] Maybe? I think… Okay. Tom cheated with Rachel, right? 

Jake Szymanski [00:39:37] Raquel.  

Ashley Ray [00:39:38] Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.  

Jake Szymanski [00:39:40] I got to say, I don’t… 

Ashley Ray [00:39:43] But neither one’s coming back. Yeah, they were like, “I can’t believe the show put me through this. The fans are horrible. I’m going to live my private life.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:39:50] Well, I am very curious how much of this are they putting them in these positions or setting this up? How much of it is real? We’ve all heard stories about how, you know, reality TV is made and who knows? But also, I was like, “Well, I’m coming in at Season 10. People must know these characters for longer.” But I don’t know. Watching it as if they weren’t real people–as characters in a TV show–you’re like, “This is insane. And these people are making crazy choices.” 

Ashley Ray [00:40:16] Crazy, crazy choices. 

Jake Szymanski [00:40:19] But then you go like, “Wait, but is this real? Or is this set up by the producers?” And I’m sure if I had known them for the last nine seasons, I’d know more about what’s led them here. But jumping in on Season 10, I don’t understand anyone’s choices almost. It’s bananas. 

Ashley Ray [00:40:34] Same. I also started with Season 10 because everyone was like, “Sandoval. It’s what you got to get into. You gotta know about it.” So, I jumped in, and I just was very confused. I didn’t understand why we were following these people. I don’t know why some of them pretend to work at a restaurant still, when they’re clearly all, like, rich and don’t need this.  

Jake Szymanski [00:40:53] Right, right, right.  

Ashley Ray [00:40:54] And I do a lot of Below Deck. I’m a big Deckhead.  

Jake Szymanski [00:40:57] I don’t watch Below Deck.  

Ashley Ray [00:40:59] That one I like because it’s about the job. It’s about hard workers. It’s about the people who are making the yacht run. They’re cleaning things.  

Jake Szymanski [00:41:07] Dispensable, roll up your sleeves, elbow grease… 

Ashley Ray [00:41:09] They’re deckhands; that’s what they’re there to do. And sometimes people on the show get, like, a little too famous. But then they’re just like, “Now you’re a deckhand. Okay, you got a bunch of Instagram followers, but you’re still going to work on a yacht.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:41:21] “We’re also still in the middle of the ocean.” 

Ashley Ray [00:41:22] Yeah. It’s like, “What are you going to do? You’re not going to run off to Hollywood. Sorry.” But Vanderpump Rules–they’re so famous.  

Jake Szymanski [00:41:30] Yeah, it seems like that. And yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Like, “Wait, are they just pretending to not be famous?” I don’t understand anyone’s status. You know what I mean? Except for Lisa, obviously.  

Ashley Ray [00:41:42] Of course.  

Jake Szymanski [00:41:43] Queen bee. I enjoy reality TV, and I used to watch a lot more of it. But, you know, I’m married. We got three little kids, so I watch a lot of kids TV. I could talk about kids TV as much as you want. And then when I’m working–when you’re in production–as I’m sure you know, your hours are crazy. You don’t always get to watch stuff. So, me and my wife have that dance where, like, we have to decide and pick what shows we’re saving for each other to watch together. And then if I’m off working when she’s not, she’ll watch another show without me. But if she watches a show without me, I won’t see that show for years because our together time has to be a new show that we’re watching together.  

Ashley Ray [00:42:39] Oh, I’ve run into this problem so often. Yes.  

Jake Szymanski [00:42:41] And she is not as into reality TV as I once was. So, when we choose our together shows… That’s why I’m so behind the curve on reality TV. I have not kept up on a lot of the latest.  

Ashley Ray [00:42:52] Yeah, you’re not missing out on much. My Strange Addiction came back. There’s, like, ten different versions of 90 Day Fiancé now.  

Jake Szymanski [00:42:59] My family–my sister, my mom, and my brother–is very into 90 Day Fiancé. I’ve watched some episodes and clips with them because they’re like, “How are you not watching?”  

Ashley Ray [00:43:06] It’s incredible.  

Jake Szymanski [00:43:06] It’s a great example of a show. I would be watching that show. But I think my wife is like, “We have to spend our TV time better than this.” 

Ashley Ray [00:43:13] Yeah, yeah.  

Jake Szymanski [00:43:15] We’re back on Only Murders in the Building. It’s back out.  

Ashley Ray [00:43:18] Yeah, I was gonna ask–do you try to watch all the other nominees? Is that, like, you’re going to keep it highbrow?  

Jake Szymanski [00:43:23] I have always just watched that show since it came out, so we’re just excited that that show is back on. That’s a show that surprised me.  

Ashley Ray [00:43:30] Same.  

Jake Szymanski [00:43:33] I love Steve Martin and Martin Short.  

Ashley Ray [00:43:37] Oh, absolutely.  

Jake Szymanski [00:43:37] Icons, obviously. 

Ashley Ray [00:43:39] This just feels like Martin Short at his best, especially this new season.  

Jake Szymanski [00:43:43] Getting to do exactly what he wants to do. 

Ashley Ray [00:43:45] And now working with Meryl Streep. Every scene they have together–incredible.  

Jake Szymanski [00:43:50] It’s really fun to see people who are kind of the best at those moves, like, pulling out those moves. And you go, “Gosh, that was a good choice. Oh, that’s a hard line to deliver–and, man, he got a laugh out of it.” The performances are really impressive. You know, I kind of thought, “Look, I’m going to enjoy Steve Martin and Martin Short. I’ll love the show.” And then you’re watching and saying, like, “I’m kind of into the whole show. I like everyone in it.” 

Ashley Ray [00:44:12] “I love everyone in it.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:44:13] “The mystery’s kind of getting to me. I like these guys enough, but I’m not watching it just for them anymore.” I did not expect that. 

Ashley Ray [00:44:20] Yeah, they built out this wonderful world of secondary characters that are so weird. In this new season, there’s, like, a mom and her gay son who have just a weird, inappropriate relationship that is so funny every episode. It’s incredible.  

Jake Szymanski [00:44:34] But I love that they go for big jokes like that–just pure jokes–which is like, you know…  

Ashley Ray [00:44:38] So rare these days.  

Jake Szymanski [00:44:39] We’ve been in this moment in TV where, like, some excellent shows are being made. And by the way, I enjoy these shows, but some shows called “comedies” are like, “Well, these are more dramas with comedy. Maybe two light moments.” And it’s a great show, don’t get me wrong.  

Ashley Ray [00:44:53] True. But let’s be honest, in the nomination category this year, people were kind of like, “Jury Duty is the only true comedy.” 

Jake Szymanski [00:45:00] I think there’s some other true comedies, but I do appreciate that.  

Ashley Ray [00:45:03] I would put Only Murders in the Building in the category. Abbott Elementary.  

Jake Szymanski [00:45:08] Abbott Elementary for sure. They deal with some serious stuff.  

Ashley Ray [00:45:12] But it’s mostly funny.  

Jake Szymanski [00:45:13] Mostly funny. But yeah, we get hard jokes in there. 

Ashley Ray [00:45:16] We can all just say it… The Bear? 

Jake Szymanski [00:45:17] But it’s so good.  

Ashley Ray [00:45:18] It’s so good. Absolutely amazing. You don’t need to lie to me and tell me it’s funny though. Stop lying to me.  

Jake Szymanski [00:45:26] Look, I don’t even know, like, the Emmy rules or whatever, but someone was literally like, “One of their episodes this season was an hour-long. Like, it’s an hour-long show! It’s a drama show! And I was like, “Oh, is that how they divvy it up?” I don’t know. I enjoy it so much that, like, I can’t be mad at it. You know what I mean?  

Ashley Ray [00:45:44] It’s a weird strict rule that no 30 minute can be in the Drama category. But then they used to be like, “Well, Comedy should be all 30 minutes.” But then things like The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel started getting in, which is an hour. Only Murders in the Building is an hour. All these shows that should technically be in the drama category–but it just doesn’t make any sense.  

Jake Szymanski [00:46:04] Yeah, I don’t– I’ve never– I don’t know. Now that I’m looking at it, I go, like, “How do they divvy this up?” But honestly, for a weird little experimental show like us, I’m just happy that people watched it. And it is one of those things where, like, you hear that thing, like, “It’s an honor just to be nominated.” And I’m like, “It’s flabbergasting to be nominated for the show. I am very happy with getting it. It’s a big win for us to be nominated.”  

Ashley Ray [00:46:27] Yeah, I mean, we did a whole episode on the nominations, and we were like, “This is shocking!” 

Jake Szymanski [00:46:32] I love it. And I am proud of the fact… Because it was a struggle for us, like, “How much do we keep the reality going for him? How much do we try to push big laughs?” Because we were worried that we were pulling back too much on the comedy. I come from comedy. I am proud that we get some hard comedy laughs in the show.  

Ashley Ray [00:46:50] Oh, there’s just so many. And to me, I was shocked by the number of laughs per minute, given the situation of the show. I was laughing so much. 

Jake Szymanski [00:46:59] I’m so happy to hear that. 

Ashley Ray [00:47:00] And it’s like, “How did they find all these ways to keep the jokes going without giving it up?” Especially when they’re in the jury deliberation room, and there’s all these little hijinks of, like, the one guy who falls and has to leave.  

Jake Szymanski [00:47:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah.  

Ashley Ray [00:47:16] And when the one guy is playing the game with Ronald and owes him all this money. It’s just joke after joke after joke. And I mean, I’m sure there was so much boring stuff you had to film in between those jokes.  

Jake Szymanski [00:47:27] Well, you know, what was really nice is… It was a long edit process for the show because you have your plan, then you have the reality of what happens. The editing of the show is much more like editing a doc movie than editing a typical TV show. But, you know, if you can get the audience to buy into Ronald… “Here’s what we’re doing, this guy is real, he is this nice, and he doesn’t know. The rest of everyone is actors.” What was really great is we were able to mine a lot of comedy out of the small moments because as soon as you’re invested in that, even just little ways that James Marsden will sigh and go like, “I would’ve gotten a dollar if you bought that.” It’s a little moment. But as soon as you’re invested in it, it can become a big laugh. You know what I mean?  

Ashley Ray [00:48:09] Yeah. Oh my God. I love that moment with him. Just an incredible show. I want to thank you so much for coming on to talk about it.  

Jake Szymanski [00:48:16] It’s so fun. Thank you for having me.  

Ashley Ray [00:48:17] Thanks for joining us. Is there anything else that you want to plug–anything you want to tell the people to watch?  

Jake Szymanski [00:48:23] Oh my gosh. Wait. I wasn’t ready. Everything–all my friends make such good stuff 

Ashley Ray [00:48:27] Yeah, it’s all on you right now as a director. You’re the only one who can promote everything. Right now.  

Jake Szymanski [00:48:32] You know, just go watch some comedy. Everyone’s seen everything. I feel like it’s like, “Oh, I love Dave.” Everyone’s seen Dave.  

Ashley Ray [00:48:39] Dave’s incredible. Wonderful writers on that show.  

Jake Szymanski [00:48:42] Oh, you know what? I will say this. This is what I’ve been recommending. Watch The Traitors UK. The UK version.  

Ashley Ray [00:48:50] The UK version is–  

Jake Szymanski [00:48:51] It’s incredible.  

Ashley Ray [00:48:52] Traitors UK is so good.  

Jake Szymanski [00:48:54] It’s a reality show. Basically, the party game mafia–they’re playing, like, in a reality show version. And honestly, I found myself fast forwarding through the activities they had to do.  

Ashley Ray [00:49:05] Yeah, that stuff is kinda dumb. Yeah. 

Jake Szymanski [00:49:07] But the characters and the relationship stuff in that show. Oh, it’s so good.  

Ashley Ray [00:49:12] It’s incredible.  

Jake Szymanski [00:49:12] You get so invested. 

Ashley Ray [00:49:14] I need a new season already. The American one is a little bit of a disappointment.  

Jake Szymanski [00:49:18] I haven’t watched the American one. 

Ashley Ray [00:49:20] It’s more about the celebrities and the reality stars on it. But the UK… And the Australian version! 

Jake Szymanski [00:49:26] I haven’t watched the Australian. 

Ashley Ray [00:49:26] The Australian is good.  

Jake Szymanski [00:49:27] Is it good? Okay.  

Ashley Ray [00:49:28] It’s really good. Yeah. I’m a big Traitorhead over here. 

Jake Szymanski [00:49:31] Oh yeah. Yeah. You’ve probably told everyone, but I will continue that. Watch the Traitors. Watch the UK version for sure. Oh, it’s good.  

Ashley Ray [00:49:40] That’s a good one because–oh my gosh–I feel like I didn’t even talk about it enough when it first came out because I think they did all the episodes at once, so it was just kind of a binge watch.  

Jake Szymanski [00:49:49] And I’d heard about it after. Like, I think it won some BAFTAs. And Jury Duty producers started talking about it. And then I was like, “Oh, I’ve got to check this out.” 

Ashley Ray [00:49:57] It’s incredible. I want to thank my guest, Jake Szymanski, for joining me today. And also, if you want to support the actors and the writers who make the shows that you love, like Jury Duty, if you’re in LA or New York, you can join at a picket line or drop off food and water. It is very hot in LA, so–hey–please drop water off at the picket line. And you can also donate money to the Entertainment Community Fund, which helps non-actor Hollywood crew members who suffer hardships due to the strike. You can donate at entertainmentcommunity.org and make sure to direct your gift to the Film and Television category when asked. Thanks so much for joining me today.  

Jake Szymanski [00:50:31] Thank you for having me. True pleasure.  

Ashley Ray [00:50:43] TV, I Say with Ashley Ray is an Earwolf production made by me, Ashley Ray-Harris. It’s engineered by Abby Aguilar, produced by Anita Flores, executive produced by Amelia Chappelow. And our original theme song is by RaFia. It means so much to me if you go rate, review, subscribe. Follow TV, I Say. Let us know what you think and tell your friends. Share with your Golden Girls. Tell your Boys. If you love my TV recommendations, let everyone you know know. For special TV Club members, join my Patreon.