EP. 210 — How To Date A Sketch Comedian

[00:00:06] CHRIS: Hello to everybody who’s dancing on the waterfront. It’s Beautiful Anonymous. One hour. One phone call. No names, no holds barred.

[00:00:19] THEME MUSIC: I’d rather go one-on-one. I think it’ll be more fun and I’ll get to know you and you’ll get to know me.

[00:00:30] CHRIS: Hi, everybody. It’s Chris Gethard. I hope you’re doing well. I hope you’re healthy. I hope you’re safe. Hope you’re happy. OK? I mean all those things more than I’ve ever meant them before. Every other time – 200 plus episodes, if I’ve ever expressed those sentiments, it’s been real but not as real as I mean it right now. Let’s just get into it, right? This call, it’s the first one I recorded on my own I believe. I was trying to figure out how to do it and connected with this person. You know what’s really good – silver linings, you got to look for silver linings. There’s nothing good. There’s nothing good about all of us being stuck while this disease unravels and we just wait to see how it affects the world and when we can emerge again. But here’s one thing is a lot of people are bored. A lot of people are bored. And it leads to conversations that just kind of go where they want, just laid back human conversations, humans talking to one another about whatever. And that’s what we ran into with this call. This person is a student. This person’s a student who’s aiming to enter the world of photography. You can see that we wind up talking about some of our favorite photographers during the end, because one thing I’ve realized doing this show is I’m someone who knows not a lot about anything, but a little bit about a lot of things. I think that’s one of my superpowers in life. I know surface level information about a lot of topics and talk about that. I was also really shocked to hear about the intricacies and the moral quandaries of the art world. That’s a world I’ve never been a part of and I’ve never known much about. To hear about all the internal dramas and politics, I found it quite interesting. I hope you do too. Enjoy the call.

[00:02:19] PHONE ROBOT: Thank you for calling Beautiful Anonymous. A beeping noise will indicate when you are on the show with the host. [Beep]

[00:02:27] CHRIS: Hello? 

[00:02:28] CALLER: Hello? Hello. 

[00:02:30] CHRIS: How’s it going? 

[00:02:33] CALLER: It’s good, how are you?

[00:02:35] CHRIS: I’m good. You’re the first ever call I’m doing from my my home setup.

[00:02:41] CALLER: Oh my gosh. Wow. Are you also working from home, then?

[00:02:45] CHRIS: Yeah. I mean, like everybody right? We’re recording this on Tuesday, March 17th and we’re just being told to stick to our houses so recording from home. 

[00:02:55] CALLER: That’s really cool actually. 

[00:02:58] CHRIS: Yeah. But most of – 

[00:02:59] CALLER: Does that like change the vibe? 

[00:03:01] CHRIS: I think so. It’s weird being in my house instead of a studio. I have to resist the urge to get distracted. Jared’s not here to hold my hand through the whole thing. He’s taught me a number of programs. Yeah. But I don’t – I’m dumb. I don’t know how – I’m looking here at a focus right interface box. I don’t know how that works. Anyway, how are you?

[00:03:22] CALLER: I wouldn’t either, I don’t even know what those words mean together. I’m good. I mean, this happened so fast and I usually like I have the number memorized. So whenever I see the Twitter notification I just try it, but this time it was just like, oh, by the way, it’ll start beeping and you’ll be on the air. I was like oh, OK. Like I told my mom, because she’s sitting in the other room and we like listen to the podcast together.

[00:03:43] CHRIS: Oh, that’s so nice. Can I just ask, did you hear my iMessage ding? Could you hear that? 

[00:03:49] CALLER: No. 

[00:03:50] CHRIS: Good. OK. That’s not recording. It’s gonna annoy me, but it won’t record you. That’s so nice. Tell your mom I said thanks for listening.

[00:03:57] CALLER: I will. Yeah. I feel like things like this are like so important right now. Just things that are consistent, like the podcast that we listen to and like the TV shows we watch. So like, thank you for continuing to make things.

[00:04:10] CHRIS: I feel very lucky to do it. And I was just saying to Hallie the other day that you know, I feel like really proud of the show, that it’s a lot – the idea that I get to talk to people and that people get to feel like they’re here overhearing real conversations. People aren’t getting that right now so I’m happy to provide.

[00:04:28] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it’s good. I mean, I just feel like because I like live on one side of the country and then I’m home for spring break. But now it seems as though I’m living with my parents for the indefinite future just because of the way that things are. So it’s very weird, ’cause you’re in New York, right? 

[00:04:48] CHRIS: Yeah. 

[00:04:49] CALLER: Yeah. That’s where I usually am. I don’t know if that’s like breaking any rule. I feel like leaving there was fleeing. [laughing] Yeah. The rules are meant to be broken I guess. But yeah, I feel like I was like fleeing the apocalypse or something.

[00:05:03] CHRIS: Yeah. So you flew home, coincidentally, and now you’re not coming back. God bless you because New York is scary right now.

[00:05:10] CALLER: Yeah, I have a roommate who’s there and then everybody else is like – one of my roommates was on study abroad. She just got shipped home. So she’s back today. But she didn’t end up going back to New York, she went home home. And then my other roommate isn’t going back to New York. And my other two roommates are on vacation, but they’re like, they’re from Washington so they also can’t go home because it’s like not necessarily a good situation there either. So I feel like it’s gonna be a while until we’re all under the same roof again, which is kind of, it feels very like end of the world-esque.

[00:05:42] CHRIS: Now, you can be honest and I know she’s in the other room so you can speak quietly if you have to. You’re here, you’re stuck with your folks. Can’t go anywhere. Is that a nightmare?

[00:05:55] CALLER: I mean, I don’t think so. It’s kind of nice. 

[00:05:58] CHRIS: Really? 

[00:05:58] CALLER: It’s like, yeah, I mean, my parents both work a lot, so I’m kind of home alone just doing whatever I want to. And like one thing that’s nice about where I am is like I have a car. So like, I drove just like for the past few days. [car noise] There’s my little brother driving his really loud car away because I’m sitting outside my window. But I have just been driving a lot because it’s not like I’m necessarily stuck inside, but I’m just trying to think of like social distancing for the public thing but I’m going a little bit crazy. So I’ve just been driving places, which is kind of nice.

[00:06:34] CHRIS: That is nice. 

[00:06:35] CALLER: I don’t know – yeah, I don’t know what I’d be doing if I was in New York, because it’s like I mean, even like a normal day for me, I feel like I come into contact with at least 5,000 people getting to and from work, all that stuff.

[00:06:48] CHRIS: Yeah, I’ve been home and my wife is home and we got our baby and we you know, he’s eleven months old and we’re in a one bedroom apartment, so you start to go insane rather quickly.

[00:07:01] CALLER: Oh my God. Yeah.

[00:07:03] CHRIS: Yeah. So today my wife put him in the stroller and we all walked around the neighborhood for a while, but then I’m a maniac. So anyone who got within six feet of me, all these like weird dad instincts were kicking in where I’m like, should I kick this person in the chest so they’re more than six feet away from my beautiful child? So I’m a very paranoid wreck out there in old New York City. I want to flee. I think I’m going to flee New York City. My next door neighbors fled.

[00:07:28] CALLER: Oh, really? Where did they go?

[00:07:30] CHRIS: They own a little land upstate and they’re hanging out there. And the frustrating thing is we’re buying a house. I own a home in the woods in New Jersey, but it’s a construction pit right now. I can’t go there. It’s a nightmare.

[00:07:46] CALLER: Yeah, that – ooohh.

[00:07:48] CHRIS: So what do I need to know about you? What are we talking about tonight?

[00:07:51] CALLER: Oh, gosh, I don’t know. I feel like every time I thought about like talking to you, I’ve been like ‘this is the agenda.” But right now, it feels like nothing applies just because it is kind of a weird time. A week ago, everything was very normal. And now like, my entire life has just like flipped on its head. Like, it’s kind of crazy. I don’t know. Like last Wednesday, I like got out of my class and then I went and got a tattoo because I found this artist on Instagram. They were gonna be in New York. They’re like, ‘I’m doing appointments like, come get a tattoo just in my friend’s apartment.” I was like, sure. In the midst of a pandemic like, why not? I’ll get a tattoo. So then I like went to my tattoo. We talked about politics and coronavirus and like all of these very scary things. And then I got out and I got an email from my college. It was just like, “so we’re canceling the week after spring break. Like, we don’t know what we’re doing, but we’ll probably gonna do online classes. But like, everything will be open, like the studio spaces will be open.” And then I went home and my roommates and I were talking about how we’re probably gonna have to vote for the candidate we didn’t want to vote for. And then within a matter of hours, it was like, oh, they can’t go to London because there’s like a travel ban. My one roommate who’s on study abroad she’s getting shipped home, like it was just like the world fell apart. And then like my job, I lost one job and then I lost another job. But yeah, I mean, it’s kind of nice, just like being home, pretending like that hasn’t happened.

[00:09:12] CHRIS: Yeah. It’s a bummer you don’t get to vote for Tulsi Gabbard, though, the person you were planning on voting for.

[00:09:18] CALLER: Yeah. [laughing] 

[00:09:21] CHRIS: Assuming that’s who you’re speaking of. What’s your tattoo?

[00:09:25] CALLER: It’s like this – it’s kind of like the pattern on like a China dish. A flower sort of thing. It’s on the back of my arm. It was like a stick and poke tattoo. And I had a couple of those, like from being in high school and they –

[00:09:40] CHRIS: Uh-oh. Hello? [pause] Oh, there you are. Where’d you go?

[00:09:48] CALLER: I don’t know where I went. That was weird. I’m actually gonna climb back inside because there’s a dog barking.

[00:09:54] CHRIS: Yeah. Your audio cut out for a second there too. I don’t know what that was about.

[00:09:58] CALLER: I don’t know either. Yeah, but it was good. I was happy that I did it. I spent a little bit more money than I was planning on. But.

[00:10:06] CHRIS: So you hear there’s a pandemic. You hear OK, there’s this global disease spreading. I’m going to go meet a stranger in a random apartment and let them make me bleed as we’re in close contact for hours.

[00:10:19] CALLER: [laughing] Yeah, I – this was before it got too serious. So I was thinking like, oh, you know, like I’m young, like, I’m not going to be affected. But now my perspective has changed a lot.

[00:10:31] CHRIS: Yeah. For me it was when the NBA closed down their season. That’s when I was like, oh, that’s billions of dollars, that’s actually billions of dollars that people are choosing not to make. This is getting serious.

[00:10:44] CALLER: Yeah. I mean, it’s kind of funny because I’m in art school. So I’ve been working on this project for the past year about like the feeling that the world isn’t real. Like, I don’t know if you ever feel that. Just that like, it’s too simple in a way like I feel that way sometimes. And so my professor e-mailed me and she was like, “I’m so excited to see what your work ends up doing because, like, I get it now.” And now I’m kind of like, this feels too real. This is too complicated to not be real. Does that kind of make sense?

[00:11:16] CHRIS: Once you had a college professor show you actual respect as a human, you felt like the world was coming to an end?

[00:11:23] CALLER: [laughing] Yeah, to an extent. Well, it’s funny because I really love her and she’s great. And like, she’s been kind of in the trenches with me, like throughout this whole entire project. I’m a photo major. So I like, have been putting pictures on the walls for eight months, just being like, do you get it now? And everyone’s like, no. But then I kind of had this like weird, like, breakthrough moment. But then like the world kind of fell apart because we won’t see each other again. So I’m doing the whole all online classes thing now. And so I guess we’ll just see. It’s kind of hard to like think about making anything right now, so.

[00:12:02] CHRIS: You said that you’re a photo major, like photography?

[00:12:04] CALLER: Mmm-hmm. 

[00:12:06] CHRIS: Now, is it hard being a photography major in an era where every asshole has an iPhone with a really good camera on it?

[00:12:12] CALLER: Yeah, I mean, it’s kind of funny because I like that to a certain extent because it means everybody understands what an image is, if that makes sense? Like, I think that more than ever people can look at something and be like, “oh, this is good, or this is bad.” I like being able to show people things and they’re like, “oh, you are good at this.” But then there’s also like the very awkward conversations when I’m at my retail job and people are like, “what do you do?” And I’m like, “oh, I am a photography major.” They’re like, “oh, let me show you my portfolio.” And they like take pictures of like their hunting and stuff. I’m like, “oh, that’s great. That’s not necessarily what I’m doing, but that’s great.” I respect everybody because it’s something that I like enjoy a lot. But it’s hard to kind of like explain to people what it means to be a photographer in the art sense, I guess.

[00:13:05] CHRIS: Yeah, that’s a daunting one. And what type of – what are you thinking? Are you thinking fashion photography? Are you thinking nature photography down the line? What’s the goal with this? Photojournalism?

[00:13:19] CALLER: I don’t know. I mean, when I was like applying to school, fashion photography was what I really wanted. And then as I’ve gotten further into my education, I kind of realized that what I like about photography is talking about photography and like kind of understanding people through it. And so I think what I want to end up doing is teaching at the college level. But I’m not really sure, like there’s kind of this expectation that if you teach at the college level, you’re like making gallery work and you’re doing all these things and you have this drive to be in MoMA or whatever that looks like. And I don’t really know if like that’s what I want either because that side of the art world gets a little bit messy when it comes to ethics, just a little bit. I’m sure people listening are like “that doesn’t seem right.” But there’s a lot of weird things that happen.

[00:14:11] CHRIS: I wanna know what you mean. What are the ethics? What are the MoMA ethics?

[00:14:17] CALLER: Well, there’s a lot of like really kind of complicated things with like where the money for the art world comes from, especially with those big institutions. I know the Guggenheim is really closely tied with the Sackler family and they’re the ones that basically, like invented the opioid crisis in America in terms of prescription opioids.

[00:14:38] CHRIS: Whoaaaa really? I’m writing that down. Guggenheim is the opioid museum?

[00:14:45] CALLER: [laughing] Yes, sure. In simple terms. There’s this artist…why am I forgetting her name right now? But she did Ballad of Sexual Dependency. She’s a photographer. And they basically did this entire thing where people who experienced opioid – like any type of addiction basically, from prescription opioids, they went into the Guggenheim. And like, you know how it’s kind of that big, like circular, kind of like rotunda? 

[00:15:12] CHRIS: Yeah. Like a parking lot. 

[00:15:15] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah. They went on every single floor and they threw prescriptions down into the lobby back in like October, maybe like 2019? 2018? I can’t remember but that was like a whole parallel demonstration kind of against the system. Then there was a whole thing this year with like the Whitney Biennial and like a guy who’s – I’m not really sure on the exact details of this, but a guy who was on their board was basically part of like funding money to get weapons into the Middle East. And then like this video group made this video about it. It was kind of like convoluted from outside. Like, I wasn’t really sure what was happening. I just knew it was bad because money was getting into the hands of artists, but it was kind of coming from these like “dirty forces”.

[00:16:03] CHRIS: I had no idea. I had no idea that so much art was funded by gun runners and opioid kingpins. Who knew?

[00:16:11] CALLER: Yeah, I mean, I definitely – it’s kind of one of those things where it’s like, “oh, these good things are coming out of these bad things, can we still call them good?” And I think part of me wants to be like, yes! Fund art, however you can, then another part of me is like, oh, this is really messy. Like, I don’t know if I want to participate in that.

[00:16:32] CHRIS: Yeah, speaking as an artist myself like I feel very lucky that I’ve hit a point in my life where I make money. That’s a nice thing that I can pay my rent doing art. But if I found out the money was coming from like the same people who lock up kids on the border, I wouldn’t be thrilled about that.

[00:16:49] CALLER: Yeah. And so it’s kind of – I feel like it kind of depends situationally like what you’re doing with the money. I don’t know. It’s really complicated. And it’s also just kind of hard because it’s like, there’s a lot of like schmoozing that goes on. Like, I have an internship right now and a lot of my job is like go through all these pictures from like this big party we had and make sure that they’re good pictures and people are gonna email them because they donated $60,000 to us.

[00:17:19] CHRIS: Whoa.

[00:17:19] CALLER: And it’s just like, I’m sitting here and I’m like debating if I should, like, jump the turnstile. And I’m like, no I don’t have enough money to buy myself lunch today. And then I’m like, Oh, my God, $60,000, like that’s so crazy.

[00:17:34] CHRIS: Now, you say the word ‘like’ a lot. And I’m going to call something out because –

[00:17:37] CALLER: I do?

[00:17:38] CHRIS: You do. You say like constantly. It’s a ceaseless stream of it. I don’t care. But there’s going to be people online going, “I can’t listen, this person says ‘like’ too much.” And I just want to point out: you’re talking about something really fascinating about all this sort of like dark underside of the art world. And there’s going to be people who go, “I can’t listen because the caller said ‘like’ too many times.” And I’ll just say, I don’t think that’s cool. But I also get the sense that you might be a little nervous and therefore, the likes are coming.

[00:18:06] CALLER: [laughing] It’s a really bad nervous habit. And before the world fell apart, I was in this public speaking class and the professor, she was beating it into me. And I got really good at it for a while where I wouldn’t say it. But now that I’m back home and this is back into my vernacular, it’s hard to get it out of your head, especially when you’re nervous.

[00:18:28] CHRIS: Oh, yeah. Well, I don’t – I just want to point out that I don’t care. But it does sometimes make me giggle when I see comments from people who are like “this person said this one thing too much and I couldn’t listen.” And meanwhile they’re talking about a fascinating thing. So the Whitney gunrunners, Guggenheim opioids. What else? Who’s running the Natural History Museum?

[00:18:49] CALLER: I don’t know. I like to think that that’s maybe the most pure of the institutions. Maybe that’s my personal bias.

[00:18:55] CHRIS: Mm hmm. The Blue Whale.

[00:18:57] CALLER: Yeah. I like that one. I really like…which one? Oh, my gosh – oh,  MoMA’s PS1 is great. That’s probably my favorite institute.

[00:19:08] CHRIS: Out in Queens. Interesting. 

[00:19:12] CALLER: Yeah. Did you go to the book fair?

[00:19:13] CHRIS: Well, I haven’t been to the book fair, but I tell you what I have done a couple of times. For anybody who’s listening, PS1 is this really great space in Long Island City, Queens and they do a lot of great things. But one thing they do is these outdoor summer dance parties. And I’ve been to a couple of those. Because you might be surprised to hear that I’m a very good dancer. This is a little known fact about me amongst Beautiful Anonymous fans but I can really get down. It’s how I wooed my wife, actually.

[00:19:41] CHRIS: [music transition] I feel like a lot of people right now are shocked. I bet there’s a lot of people going, “you’re a good dancer?” Yeah, I am actually. A great dancer. Don’t know any dance moves, but I know how to summon a sense of physical shamelessness when I’m on a dance floor. It’s a surprising thing about me. Oh, there’s all sorts of surprises to come when we get back. Don’t go anywhere.

[AD BREAK]

[00:20:04] CHRIS: [music transition] All right, I hope you enjoyed that nice break from the proceedings. Now let’s get back to the phone call.

[00:20:11] CHRIS: This is a little known fact about me amongst Beautiful Anonymous fans, but I can really get down. It’s how I wooed my wife, actually. And they have these outdoor summer dance parties. I’ve been to two of them. One was great, so fun. Like a truly joyous fun New York memory. And the other one, it was just too crowded. That was the other one. So that’s my fun story. As I speak to you, I realize I sound very old. Meaning like, I go and cut a rug at a dance party. That’s what I sound like. I do the jitterbug.

[00:20:41] CALLER: [laughing] I don’t think so. There’s something that you said that kind of struck me with the New York balance, where it has to be enough people where you’re like, “oh yeah, I am in New York City.” But it can’t be too many people to where you feel like you’re in Midtown. 

[00:20:56] CHRIS: Mm. Mm hmm. 

[00:20:58] CALLER: It has to be in that perfect kind of area.

[00:21:02] CHRIS: Yeah, you’re right. A lot of fun situations in New York. You’re kind of like, if there’s not enough people here it’s not fun, it doesn’t have that New York energy. But the second I feel another human being’s sweat on me, I’m out. Let’s get out of here.

[00:21:19] CALLER: Yeah. But then there’s also kind of those memories where you’re in these really iconic places, but it’s just you and a few other people. Like I remember this night a few months ago, or actually it was a while ago because it was the beginning of summer of last year. My friends and I just randomly were like, we should go see the world. So we went to the Manhattan Bridge Dumbo area and we went under like, there’s all those stores right there on the waterfront. And there was nobody there. And it was kind of insane because it was just us. And we just danced around and were kind of stupid. And it was great. And that was a good New York memory, too, just ’cause nobody was in the way.

[00:21:59] CHRIS: New York City still has those moments, man. It really does. I’m leaving. I’ve lived here over 15 years and I’m cooked. I got the kid. I want to raise the kid someplace a little more peaceful and quiet. It’s you know, New York City. They’ve said it for a while. It’s a city for the young. It’s not even a city for the rich. It’s the city for the young. Every once in a while you find yourself dancing on a waterfront and there’s nobody else. And that’s such a good feeling. Such a good feeling. That’s not my life anymore, but I got 100 versions of that story. I love it still. Sometimes I’ll do stand up and if I do really well, every once in a while you walk home, maybe it’s raining or it’s really cold and you’re just out there and there’s no one else out there. And I’m like, I just lived my dream in New York City and now I get to walk to the subway and feel like I own this town because I did 15 minutes that people liked. New York still has that. It’s the best, it’s a great feeling.

[00:22:55] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah, I like that about it. I also enjoy the fact that you can leave a space like that but be kind of anonymous, too. 

[00:23:05] CHRIS: Oh, that’s the best.

[00:23:06] CALLER: Yeah. I work in this job where I’m talking to people all day, selling stuff. And people come back to me and like, remember my name. And I feel like I rock it every single day. And it’s really, really great. But then I also get to sit on the subway and nobody talks to me and I get a moment of silence before I head home to my three roommates who I love a lot. But it’s the moment of silence that I really enjoy. It’s not like anybody notices you. It’s really great.

[00:23:35] CHRIS: I love it. It’s you know, when my TV show was on, I really learned it was a double edged sword because I was so proud of the show but then people started recognizing me on the streets and I learned I didn’t like it. I like New York because it’s anonymous. Like when you go to a Knicks game, you’re in Madison Square Garden with 30,000 other people, I think something around there. And then the second the game’s over you leave, and you’re just another jerk walking up Eighth Avenue and it’s like you can have a gathering of 30,000 people in the center of this city and it has no effect on just the flow and the pace. It’s just another thing happening that night. It’s really amazing. I once, you’ll like this story – [Caller starts speaking] Oh no go for it, you go for it.

[00:24:20] CALLER: Well, I just am scared that because of what’s happening now, it’s gonna take a while for that to kind of regrow, I guess, or become normal again. But I’m also not there, so I can’t necessarily speak to what it’s like right now.

[00:24:35] CHRIS: Well I can. And I’ll tell you, just even walking around my neighborhood. There’s tons of restaurants, my neighborhood’s kind of known as a food destination, and restaurants aren’t allowed to be open right now so you’re seeing a lot of handwritten signs, deliveries still open, takeout still open. One of my favorite restaurants saw a big sign that said, please, we’re not totally closed, please call in, we want to provide the neighborhood with food like, a lot of businesses shutting down. And it’s scary, you know. And I’m very blessed. I’m very, very lucky. I’ve had a good life. And I’ve always been smart about saving money when I make it. That being said, I found out today I had a call that most of my touring dates on the year are going to be canceled. I have a TV hosting gig that the whole show might get canceled. I’m like, this is like a year’s salary that might go away in a day and I’m lucky I can weather that hit. I’m not someone who’s a bartender depending on those tips. I’m not someone who’s, you know, in the trenches of the service industry. I can only imagine the fear right now because I’m feeling it.

[00:25:48] CALLER: Yeah well also just the idea of like how much planning goes into stuff like that. And then one thing to kind of just take it over and cancel everything is crazy.

[00:26:00] CHRIS: It’s wild, it’s wild.

[00:26:02] CALLER: Yeah. I don’t know, it’s kind of hard. I just hope that people take from this what they can and like realize how fragile things are I guess? 

[00:26:13] CHRIS: I think we’re all gonna realize that. 

[00:26:16] CALLER: Yeah. Very, very fragile. Our economy is fragile. Even our immune systems can be fragile. It’s very, very crazy.

[00:26:27] CHRIS: Now, what’s the dirt on the New Museum? You know, the New Museum down on the Bowery?

[00:26:31] CALLER: [laughing] I do! Yeah, I actually have never been. And I feel kind of like a fake art student because I’ve never been.

[00:26:37] CHRIS: Because that’s kind of like the hipster – that’s like the hip tastemaker museum, right?

[00:26:43] CALLER: [laughing] Yeah. I’ve walked by it 100,000 times. I just haven’t had the chance to go in. I’ve heard good things though.

[00:26:49] CHRIS: Do you want to know how I know that that’s the hip tastemaker museum? 

[00:26:54] CALLER: Of course. 

[00:26:55] CHRIS: Many years ago, when I was a young single man living in my era of life where I still danced on the empty Brooklyn waterfronts so to speak, I did stand up one night in Williamsburg, Brooklyn and a very, very attractive young lady came up to me after my set and said “good set” and then kind of hung out, was smiling at me. And then I said, “all right, thank you so much, good night” because I’m an idiot. And then when I was driving home, I was like, I think she was flirting. And then she sent me a message on Facebook and said, “hey, I talked to you after the show.” And I said, “I think I might have really messed that up.” And she said, “I think, yeah, you did.” And we wound up going on some dates. She explained to me, yes, you really had a chance there. I was really actively trying to flirt and you very clearly did not get it because you’re dense. But we wound up dating for like a month or so. And after I think after our second or third date, she had mentioned to me that she worked at the New Museum, and then I finally Googled her name and she was like very, very high up in the food chain of the New York art world. She was someone who could, like, snap a finger and make a career. And I’ll tell you – 

[00:28:12] CALLER: That’s crazy. 

[00:28:12] CHRIS: I know. And really, the relationship ended poorly because I could not figure out for the life of me what someone of this stature saw in me, a comedian who at that point was still sleeping in a room in Woodside with no closet in a bed that was just a disassembled IKEA loft frame on the ground. I couldn’t, for the life of me, figure out what was going on there.

[00:28:37] CALLER: I feel like that’s what New York dating is though, it’s like the great equalizer.

[00:28:42] CHRIS: Talk to me about this. Explain what you mean to the people who are not New Yorkers.

[00:28:47] CALLER: Yes. I mean, I feel like even in big cities, this might be true. I have yet to survey anybody on this, but I feel like I always see very attractive people with people who dress like librarians, like I don’t really get it. But after I talk to the librarian as a person, I understand it more. I’m working for this woman who is an angel, A. And B, beautiful. It’s kind of ridiculous. And we had this big event and she was dressed in this like Dior sequined ball gown. And he came in wearing like the plaid tweed professor jacket and these big square black glasses. And he has kind of this big, unkempt beard, and they were so in love. And it was great. And I was just kind of questioning like, how did you guys meet? But then it’s New York City so I’m like of course, he probably – they met in that same situation, you know, where one of them had no idea who the other was. And now you’re at a gala in your librarian outfit.

[00:29:47] CHRIS: Now, let’s be clear: in the story you just described the guy where you were like, I can’t believe my beautiful dynamic boss wound up with him. You basically just described me, but with a beard. You do know that?

[00:30:00] CALLER: Well I want to be clear that I’m the librarian as well.

[00:30:03] CHRIS: Got it. OK. So we’re on the same team. We’re on the same team. I mean, I feel like everywhere I go with my wife, people must be thinking, what? How did this happen? Because she’s the best. She’s the coolest person in the world. And I’m sitting here like bumping into walls and being like, oh, we better get home. The F train is running delayed tonight. It’s the worst, I make everything less fun.

[00:30:27] CALLER: Are you a MTA alert person? Do you get the alerts on your phone?

[00:30:32] CHRIS: No, if I had the MTA alerts on my phone, I’d just – I’d be balled up in the fetal position in the corner everyday. I can’t with the MTA.

[00:30:41] CALLER: Yeah.

[00:30:42] CHRIS: Yeah. Maybe they’ll use the shutdown to fix these trains. Maybe now that people aren’t allowed to leave their houses they can actually fix these trains! I’m an old crank.

[00:30:51] CALLER: Yeah. I keep getting like coronavirus text alerts from New York City. And they keep saying, “please stop telling people that transit is shut down. That is not true.” And I just can’t even imagine what’s going on over there because of the alerts that I’m getting.

[00:31:08] CHRIS: Yeah, it really is wild.

[00:31:10] CALLER: I do kind of have a question.

[00:31:11] CHRIS: Yeah.

[00:31:12] CALLER: I have a question for you. How did you meet your wife? I don’t know if I’ve ever heard that story.

[00:31:17] CHRIS: I don’t know if I’ve ever told it on the show and it’s a damn good story.

[00:31:22] CALLER: OK, I’m ready.

[00:31:23] CHRIS: So, a lot of Beautiful Anonymous listeners are aware that I have done a lot of strange comedy over the years, not just comedy, but very strange performance hardy stuff, and it’s become a real source of joy to me that I now have separate fan bases that are not interested in the same things. Like I have these weirdo comedy fans that like experimental comedy. Then I have people who enjoy thoughtful conversations and they’re not always the same people. So when the Chris Gethard show began, it was a show at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater. This was before we were on public access TV. And it became a very hot show, it was impossible to get a ticket and I’m very proud of that you know, we had a good thing going. And the boys in the band, the house band back then, they had a friend who used to ask them say, can you get me tickets, sneak me in. And it was Hallie. And I was aware of Hallie because she was the lead singer of a band called The Unloveables, who are one of my favorite bands. I bought their CD at the record store Union Square, them and the Ergs on the same day, like I remember it, and I was a legitimate fan. So all of a sudden I’m like, “Hallie from The Unloveables is at my show, what’s going on?” So she used to come quite often. And there was one edition of our show at UCB where it was a charity show where if you donated enough money you could make people on stage do degrading things. So we had 5 – 

[00:32:52] CALLER: Ooooh, I like that. 

[00:32:53] CHRIS: Yeah, it was wild. We raised $9,000 with a bunch of dimes, but one of the things was at $500 I would host the show naked and I expected that to never happen because it was a bunch of New York comedy fans. But it happened very quickly. So the bulk of the show, I was hosting it naked and I was covering my naughty bits. And at one point – so it was really packed out and the band had snuck Hallie in and she was sitting pretty much directly behind our drummer and I hadn’t realized it. And I turned around, made eye contact with her in the middle of the show. And I was naked just covering my junk. And I just went, “oh, you’re here?” And she just looked at me in confusion. And that is technically the first time we ever spoke.

[00:33:39] CALLER: That’s so romantic. Oh, my God. 

[00:33:41] CHRIS: Yeah. 

[00:33:43] CALLER: That’s actually like a really good story.

[00:33:44] CHRIS: That’s a New York dating story right there. I was doing performance comedy naked onstage and noticed the lead singer of one of my favorite punk rock bands sitting there in concern. Yeah.

[00:33:57] CALLER: That’s crazy. I guess…so I have I guess maybe a request for advice then, because I’ve been going to this free comedy show with one of my friends for like months and I have a crush on one of the people in the group. It’s like a sketch comedy group and it’s a very New York free comedy show, it’s in the basement of a weird bar. And so we’ve been talking about it for months and I’m just like, “I don’t know, like, how do I talk to him? Do I just keep staring?” So what is your professional advice from the other side? 

[00:34:31] CHRIS: On how to date a sketch comedian?

[00:34:34] CALLER: Yes. 

[00:34:35] CHRIS: OK. Well, first of all, I’m sure you’ve done enough Internet stalking, is this person single? 

[00:34:41] CALLER: Yes, allegedly.

[00:34:42] CHRIS: OK. A verified single string. Well, look. OK. All right. Chris Gethard’s advice on dating a comedian. First of all, don’t, it’s a bad idea. They’re tragically insecure people. [Caller laughing] They’re emotionally damaged, especially someone in sketch. This is someone who’s a, you know, part of a larger group. Why are they not putting their own words out there to be a stand up? Who knows? Anyway, I kid about that. But look, this is going to be an emotionally stunted person. And do you know how old he is?

[00:35:13] CALLER: Probably like around my age, like early 20s.

[00:35:17] CHRIS: Early 20s. So let’s say he’s 24. He’ll have the emotional capacity of a 15 year old boy. If he’s a 24 year old male sketch comedian. He’ll be unable to function socially. 

[00:35:25] CALLER: Is there like a conversion chart? 

[00:35:26] CHRIS: There is. You divide it, you divide it by half – you divide it by 2 and then you add 3 back. So if he’s 24, you get the emotional abilities of a 15 year old boy. I would say be pretty direct. He’s still going to drop the ball because he’s a 20 something sketch comedian and just, you know, be real. Be pretty direct and brace yourself for what will invariably be an uncomfortable experience full of dating someone with messed up self-esteem issues, coupled with a complete need for attention all the time. This is someone who wants to be laughed, you know, get laughs all the time and yet is invariably insecure. So good luck.

[00:36:18] CALLER: Yes, I mean, in my apartment, we had a list of rules for a while. There was no dating actors, musicians, comedians or salesmen. It was a double red flag if they were two of those. And then I broke the rule and it went bad.

[00:36:35] CHRIS: You did? Salesman? Actor, salesman, musician or comedian? Which one did you date?

[00:36:40] CALLER: Yes. Actor, musician.

[00:36:42] CHRIS: Actor and musician? Same one or two different people?

[00:36:46] CALLER: Same one. 

[00:36:48] CHRIS: Oooohh. And you dated an actor/musician. You dated a slash! An actor/musician. You can’t date a slash.

[00:36:54] CALLER: Yeah. It’s even worse because he was a childhood actor. 

[00:36:58] CHRIS: Ooooohhh!

[00:37:01] CALLER: [laughing] Yeah, it was a wild ride though. And I mean it’s kind of funny cause like we met through Tinder, which is very I think typical of stories right now. Especially like college city scene. And so we met on Tinder and then we went on a date and I was like, “ooohh I didn’t like that.” So I stopped talking to him and ghosted him, and I’ve never ghosted anyone before so I felt really bad. But then Halloween rolls around about two months later. I drank tequila seriously for the first time. I don’t like salt, but then somehow I ended up consuming a lot of tequila.

I got lost inside my own apartment at my own party. And then I was trying to call somebody else and I accidentally called him. And then somehow that led to us dating for a period of time. Yeah, I don’t know. It’s kind of crazy because like, while we were dating I found out one of my other friends had dated him. And that’s another very specific thing about New York – just general city dating is everyone has dated the person that you’re dating. And you kind of have to accept it. Especially when you’re dating a slash. That’s what I realized.

[00:38:12] CHRIS: Oh they get around, these slashes. Actors, musicians. Man about town. Anybody who has a headshot, you got to be careful dating anybody who has a headshot, let alone two.

[00:38:23] CALLER: I like the simplicity of that. Yeah. 

[00:38:26] CHRIS: Yeah. Just be careful.

[00:38:27] CALLER: As a general first date question, “can I see your headshot?” “Oh, I don’t have one.” “OK, then we’re good.”

[00:38:32] CHRIS: Yeah. Phew. You passed the first test. You passed the first test. And now when you’re dating an actor/musician, is it an emotional roller coaster driven by a narcissist or am I painting this guy with a bad brush?

[00:38:47] CALLER: That’s actually surprisingly accurate. I don’t know. It was kind of, it’s kinda like a really good story because the movie he was in is actually like pretty well known by people. There’s a very recognizable soundtrack to it. And every once in a while I’ll be at work and one of the songs will come on and everyone’s like, “[bleep] go to the back and change it.” And I’m like, “OK” –

[00:39:11] CHRIS: Wait, was that your name? Did you just say your name? 

[00:39:14] CALLER: Oh, yeah. Oooh I did. 

[00:39:15] CHRIS: We’ll, bleep it. We’ll bleep it. 

[00:39:17] CALLER: Okay. Yeah. Insert generic name here. Yeah. And so I run to the back and I always change it and everyone knows that song and it’s kind of weird too ’cause he would always put that on playlists.

[00:39:27] CHRIS: So they tell you to go back. So he’s always putting songs on a mixtape that’s in the soundtrack of a movie he’s in?

[00:39:33] CALLER: Yeah. Isn’t that kind of weird? At the time I think I was just so like, blind and naive. But then after I took a step back, after things went downhill, I was like that is kind of a little strange. Like, yeah.

[00:39:47] CHRIS: Did you ever watch the movie he was in with him?

[00:39:50] CALLER: No, it was kind of weird. I went on like my second first date with him after the tequila incident. Sorry, this is becoming like a very weird ex-boyfriend episode, but – 

[00:39:59] CHRIS: I’m into it.

[00:40:00] CALLER: I like to think it’s an interesting story. Yeah, I came home from our second first date and I know that he doesn’t listen to the podcast so everything is safe. 

[00:40:09] CHRIS: How are you certain of that? You specifically asked him if he listens to Beautiful Anonymous and he says, “I would never”.

[00:40:14] CALLER: [laughing] Well, it was part of a conversation we had. I was like, “you should listen to this” and he was like, “I’m not really a podcast person.” And that was the beginning of the end. [laughing] Yeah, we like went on our second first date and it went really well. And I was like, “what are you working on?” And he was like, “oh, I’m like recording a TV show. It’s like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” So I came home and my roommate was like, “how was it” and I was like “he kind of made this weird like comment about working on a TV show?” She’s like, “I wonder if he has an IMDB”. So I gave her his name, she was like [bleep] oh my God! I’m so sorry.

[00:40:43] CHRIS: You gotta stop saying your name.

[00:40:45] CALLER: I only refer to myself in the third person narrative I guess. I don’t know why. 

[00:40:49] CHRIS: And you have an extraordinary – we’re gonna bleep it so I can also say you have an extraordinarily specific name.

[00:40:54] CALLER: It is a very specific name. It’s a blessing and a curse. But yeah, she told me that he was in this movie and I told her I’d never seen that movie before. So we ended up watching it, which was just an out-of-body experience, having just started dating that person. And then I secretly started watching the show that he was on at the time, too, which was super weird and I had to stop because it made me so uncomfortable.

[00:41:21] CHRIS: So some people will let social media do the background. You’re actually watching this person on the big screen and small screen.

[00:41:31] CALLER: Yeah. The silver screen, all of them. 

[00:41:34] CHRIS: All the screens.

[00:41:35] CALLER: It was all the screens, yeah. It was very weird. But I feel like it’s an experience that left me with a lot of good stories. So I’m happy to say that I went through it. I have – the friend who also dated him – we have a lot of shared funny stories about him, which we talk about a lot so that’s fun.

[00:41:55] CHRIS: Yeah, that’s nice after a breakup to have somebody else already in your life who can share the breakup stories about that person, that’s gotta be good.

[00:42:03] CHRIS: [music transition] Sharing those breakup stories. I bet we all just took a deep breath and said, I know the person in my life I share the breakup stories with. Ponder that, ponder many more things. We’ll be taking a break. Think about your life and the relationships of the people you know and that you love. We’ll be right back.

[AD BREAK]

[00:42:21] CHRIS: [music transition] OK. That was our final break. So that means it’s time to finish off the conversation.

[00:42:28] CHRIS: Yeah, that’s nice after a breakup to have somebody else already in your life who can share the breakup stories about that person, that’s gotta be good.

[00:42:35] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think that there’s something to be said about, you know, sitting in a restaurant or just being like, “oh, yeah, like he was kind of weird about that one specific genre of music”, or like “yeah, why didn’t we ever go get Indian food?” Like that’s suspicious. [laughing] Just weird things like that.

[00:42:54] CHRIS: All right. All right. Now, is your mom still in the other room?

[00:42:59] CALLER: I actually don’t know. She was on the phone with somebody and now it seems like it’s darker upstairs. I don’t know where she went. I’m going to have to tell her not to listen to this episode though.

[00:43:10] CHRIS: No, she’s got to listen to it. Because I was thinking, I was going to ask if she could get on the phone so I could be like, “hey, you raised a real good kid. A real sweet, nice person.”

[00:43:20] CALLER: Should I go try to find her? 

[00:43:21] CHRIS: I would love to talk to your mom.

[00:43:23] CALLER: I don’t know where she is. Let’s see. I’ll go on a little…she might be downstairs.

[00:43:29] CHRIS: Also, why does your brother got such a loud car?

[00:43:32] CALLER: He works at like a car shop. And so that’s what they do to stay out of trouble. They just like cut pipes off. I don’t really know.

[00:43:40] CHRIS: So he’s one of those like Fast and Furious guys. He does street racing stuff.

[00:43:44] CALLER: Yeah. [Caller to the side] Chris wants to talk to you. She’s going to hang up the phone with the person that she’s on.

[00:43:53] CHRIS: I hope she’s on a different phone based podcast and choosing mine over that.

[00:44:00] CALLER MOM: Hey, Chris!

[00:44:01] CHRIS: Hey. Were you on the phone with another podcast? Like, are you hanging up on Reply All right now? Speak to me instead?

[00:44:07] CALLER MOM: No, I was talking to an old friend that came in town for the – a friend was diagnosed in the hospital with some pretty bad stuff and so I was talking to him on his way home.

[00:44:19] CHRIS: Oh no. I’m here making jokes and it instantly gets serious.

[00:44:24] CALLER MOM: [laughing] No, no, no, no. It’s a common occurrence in our house, actually. It’s kind of sad. [Caller on side] Don’t make it sad! 

[00:44:34] CHRIS: Yeah. Instantly sad, instantly. I just wanted to say I’ve been talking to your daughter for 43 minutes and she’s a real sweet kid. And you did a good job as a parent.

[00:44:43] CALLER MOM: You know what? One of my proudest parenting moments was like, “hey, there’s this podcast called Beautiful Anonymous. You should listen to it.” And she started listening to it. 

[00:44:51] CHRIS: You convinced her? 

[00:44:54] CALLER MOM: I did. I did. I’m 50 years old, and I told my 20 year old beautiful daughter who now lives in New York…oh!

[00:45:01] CHRIS: She already told – also, just so you know, she’s out here dancing on the Brooklyn waterfronts with nobody around. She’s telling me about this.

[00:45:10] CALLER MOM: You know, she is her own person. Let me tell you. She’s a good one.

[00:45:16] CHRIS: Yes, she seems like a real good egg.

[00:45:20] CALLER MOM: She is fabulous. She’s one of the best things I ever did.

[00:45:25] CHRIS: Now, as someone who’s only 11 months in. You’re 20 years in. What are the secrets? What do I got to do to raise a good kid?

[00:45:33] CALLER MOM: Well, I have two. I have a son as well who will be 18 in a week or so.

[00:45:37] CHRIS: I heard this kid’s car, by the way. His car’s a little loud for my life.

[00:45:43] CALLER MOM: Yes, that freakin’ car. 

[00:45:44] CHRIS: I heard it pull into the driveway and it was noise pollution level.

[00:45:49] CALLER MOM: In our house, we text, you know, “get home” and then he’ll come home and I’ll be like, “shut that car up, the neighbors hate us.” You know? Because it’s so loud. And he has to come home early, because if he pulls up, he wakes us up. That’s a stupid car. But, you know, back to parenting, we’re really open. And we talked to them about everything. And we have a great sense of humor and tease a lot.

[00:46:19] CHRIS: A lot of teasing?

[00:46:21] CALLER MOM: Yeah, a lot of yeah, we are awful. 

[00:46:25] CHRIS: Awful? What kind of teasing? How do you tease each other?

[00:46:28] CALLER MOM: Well, like I was asleep the other night. My husband came home, came in the dark room and then just put his phone on bright and just put it in my eyes while I was asleep so that he could wake me up. [laughing]

[00:46:42] CHRIS: I would literally destroy someone if they did that to me. I would fly out of bed so furious. I can’t even explain how angry that would make me.

[00:46:53] CALLER MOM: So I said something like…it was pretty rude. I said something like, “fuck off. Leave me alone!” Sorry Sally. And then he turned around and he said, “you sound like Sylvester the talking cat.” So I don’t know if you guys watch those videos, but Sylvester the talking cat is hysterical and he has a foul mouth. And apparently now I talk like a cat.

[00:47:22] CALLER: And with that, I’m taking my phone away. [laughing] Yeah, that’s what I mean. It’s not too bad being home.

[00:47:33] CHRIS: That was an eye-opening look into another side of your life.

[00:47:36] CALLER: Yes. [laughing] And now she’s following me.

[00:47:40] CHRIS: Do you torment your parents the way they torment each other?

[00:47:43] CALLER and CALLER MOM: Yes. Yes.

[00:47:45] CHRIS: How so? What kind of stuff are you doing to them?

[00:47:49] CALLER: I mean, I’m like really into TikTok right now.

[00:47:52] CHRIS: I don’t understand that at all. I do not understand at all what TikTok is.

[00:47:58] CALLER: I didn’t either until I downloaded it. And it’s like such a smart algorithm that you’ll get it in like seconds.

[00:48:06] CHRIS: Yeah. But if I go on there, people are just gonna be like, “you’re old. You’re like Gen X. What are you doing here?”

[00:48:12] CALLER: It’s kind of crazy, like I follow a lot of like 80 year old people on the app because I love them.

[00:48:19] CHRIS: There’s 80 year olds on TikTok?

[00:48:21] CALLER: Yeah, there’s this one guy who I can’t remember what his username is, but he just like shows us how to cook things. [CALLER MOM in background] Cooking with Steve!

[00:48:33] CHRIS: Do you have me on speaker? Is this you and your mom on speaker?

[00:48:36] CALLER: Yeah, I’m trying to get her to leave nicely. And there’s also –

[00:48:45] CHRIS: Oh no, there’s also what? I was gonna say – you were explaining to me ways in which you’ve tormented your mom.

[00:48:50] CALLER: Oh, yeah. 

[00:48:51] CALLER MOM: And stealing my clothes. 

[00:48:52] CALLER: Yeah, I steal my mom’s clothes when I’m home, and her makeup. Yeah, I mean, just friendly things. We play bingo. 

[00:49:02] CALLER MOM: Putting water down so I slide and hit the door. 

[00:49:05] CALLER: We play bingo when I’m home and we all just like make fun of each other while we play bingo. I don’t know. It’s the little things I guess.

[00:49:13] CHRIS: That’s a dream. That sounds like a dream. That sounds fun. I’m going to pull all sorts of practical jokes on my son. All sorts of pranks and gotcha’s. 

[00:49:21] CALLER: Yeah, you should.

[00:49:22] CHRIS: You think so? 

[00:49:23] CALLER: Yeah. I feel like I grew like a very tough skin because my parents are always joking.

[00:49:30] CHRIS: See, I feel like my family, we used to mess with each other and it would end with someone like me throwing a punch at my brother. Or him smashing a glass in the wall above my head. Me and my brother just fist fighting our way through our entire childhoods.

[00:49:44] CALLER: Yeah. I don’t know. I just have one younger brother and I think the like older sister/younger brother dynamic is very different than the two brothers dynamic. Same with the two sisters dynamic. It’s, yeah. Do you think you’re going to have more kids?

[00:49:59] CHRIS: I think I’m one and done. I’m pretty old. I’m already having trouble. Yeah, I’m already having trouble picking up this one little guy, so. I also kind of think that like, I know my capacity as a human and if I can get it right once that I’ll be very happy about that. And I don’t believe in myself enough to think I can get it right twice. [laughing] I’m envious of those who can.

[00:50:26] CALLER: Yeah, I think I respect that outlook. I mean, it’s important to kind of understand like what your tolerance is.

[00:50:33] CHRIS: I think so. I’m just trying to get it right with this one little dude.

[00:50:39] CALLER: Yeah, I think you’re doing a good job. From the episodes I’ve watched where there’s been talk about it.

[00:50:45] CHRIS: Thanks. That’s awful nice of ya. Hey, is your brother around? ‘Cause I want to talk to your brother about this car situation.

[00:50:53] CALLER: [laughing] He’s gone. I don’t know. He started dating a neighbor girl.

[00:50:58] CHRIS: What? Drama!

[00:50:59] CALLER: Yeah. What?

[00:51:02] CHRIS: I said drama.

[00:51:04] CALLER: Yes. The drama is definitely there. But they are basically back and forth between our house and her house. And I think right now they’re on to her house rotation.

[00:51:13] CHRIS: And how old is your brother?

[00:51:16] CALLER: He’s about to turn 18. 

[00:51:19] CHRIS: So we got a 17 year old boy with a loud car and a neighbor girl. That’s a Springsteen song in action right there.

[00:51:27] CALLER: Yeah, I was going to say every Tom Petty song, live action before my eyes. 

[00:51:32] CHRIS: Look at that.

[00:51:35] CALLER: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that’s one of the things that’s also kind of nice about being home is I kind of get to like be back into the normalcy of it and like being able to, like, say goodbye to him before he goes to work and like seeing my parents and stuff.

[00:51:50] CHRIS: How long are you anticipating being trapped out of your New York life?

[00:51:56] CALLER: [laughing] I have no idea. I mean, I feel like every day it changes. Just ’cause like I saw a thing today that was saying like it’s going to peak May 1st. But then I saw something else, it was like it might not peak until October and like my classes have all been moved permanently to online. All of my studios are closed. The campus is entirely closed. They kicked everybody out of the dorms. I live in an apartment, so luckily I can just like return to that at some point, but I’m not really sure when that’s going to be a practical option, you know?

[00:52:36] CHRIS: Man, we’re all just stuck. I should have fled New York City when I had the chance. I should have grabbed everything and fled.

[00:52:46] CALLER: Yeah. I mean, like, I kind of had the chance to flee, but I did not pack well. I packed one pair of pants and two t-shirts.

[00:52:53] CHRIS: That’s all you brought with you across the country?

[00:52:56] CALLER: And then like a bunch of camera gear and that’s like it. I was just like, oh, I’m going to be here for two weeks. I want to do some shopping. I’ll bring some stuff back from my home closet. But now I’m kind of like, oh, now I’m here. I have like a prom dress I guess I could wear. I did do a Goodwill run so I got a couple of things I can wear for a while, but I definitely could have planned better. That’s my tip for fleeing the apocalypse, is pack well, pack multiple outfits, maybe multiple shoes.

[00:53:26] CHRIS: Mmhmm. Now, what’s your favorite thing to take – what’s your favorite subject photography wise?

[00:53:32] CALLER: I do a lot of these like night landscape photos. So I’ll drive down the highway, pull over. My camera is one of like old timey – you have to get under a cape sorts of situations.

[00:53:48] CHRIS: Really? Like with the flash bulbs?

[00:53:51] CALLER: Yeah. I mean, I’m not usually using flash but it’s a large camera, four by five.

[00:53:56] CHRIS: So you’re telling me you pull off on the side of the highway with your old timey camera and you put the cape over your head?

[00:54:02] CALLER: [laughing] Yeah. And then you’re seeing the image upside down and reverse on this piece of glass and it’s kind of nice because then you’re basically just in charge of the shutter because the focus is done manually. And then I just leave it there with the shutter open, usually for like 30 or 40 minutes and I sit in my car and I scroll through TikTok or whatever. And I take the film out of the holder and then move on. So kind of like this really long, tedious process. The way that the images look, it’s kind of weird ’cause it’s like these mountains and stuff. But then there’s this like really ghostly light that’s just very, very even over all of it, even though it’s nighttime, but it’s all moonlight. And car light usually from the highway. Yeah. 

[00:54:52] CHRIS: It takes 40 minutes for one picture.

[00:54:55] CALLER: Yeah. 

[00:54:57] CHRIS: Then any dickhead with an iPhone can crank out 150 of them in 30 seconds.

[00:55:02] CALLER: [laughing] Yeah. I don’t know. There’s just something about the quality of them that’s very, very different just because it’s kind of a marker of time. Photography is kind of interesting ’cause I think there’s a lot of philosophy that you can kind of press on to it if you want to. I’m interested in the theory of it, but I mean every image kind of holds a sense of time and these images mark a time that you couldn’t really see with your naked eye because they are 40 minutes long, but you’re seeing it simultaneously all in this one image. So I’m kind of interested in how that functions.

[00:55:30] CHRIS: Well, this got trippy fast.

[00:55:32] CALLER: Yes. I don’t really know what’s going to end up happening. I had to call a photo lab and just basically plead with them and just be like, “I won’t breathe on you, please. Are you guys going to stay open?” And the guy was just like, “I don’t know. I’ll let you know.” So I’m hoping that those kinds of places can make it through this and I’m still able to take pictures because I think that that stuff is kind of important right now. Like whatever is your normal, trying to kind of figure out what that can be right now. And that’s very much my normal so I’m trying to pursue that.

[00:56:07] CHRIS: And what’s your favorite photo of all time that someone else has taken?

[00:56:11] CALLER: Oooohh. That’s like a really hard question. I don’t know. There’s this guy named Todd Fido. And if any of my friends listen to this they’re probably like groaning because I talk about him all the time. It’s T-O-D-D H-I-D-O and he takes all these pictures of suburban houses at night and then the same sort of situation. So it’s like 30 or 40 minute long exposures, so the lights just seem like they’re glowing. It’s kind of crazy. You should look them up. I really like them. Those are my favorites. I don’t know if there’s one of his that I really like, but they’re all kind of in the same vibe.

[00:56:46] CHRIS: All right. I’ll have to look that up. I like Dorothea Lange myself. I’m a big Dorothea Lange – you know Dorothea Lange?

[00:56:55] CALLER: Love her, yeah. 

[00:56:57] CHRIS: Really? Depression-era.

[00:56:58] CALLER: Yeah! Are you gonna go see – they just did a show, I think it might be at MoMA, of all of her stuff. 

[00:57:07] CHRIS: No, I missed it. I’m an uncultured fool and now there’s an apocalypse upon us so I can’t even go. Migrant Mother – Migrant Mother is a great photo.

[00:57:16] CALLER: I know it is. Yeah. It’s kind of crazy because she was part of the FSA. So all those negatives are basically like government properties. So they basically allowed Sam Contis who is this other photographer who’s really, really great – they allowed her to reprint all of Dorothea Lange’s photos. There’s a lot of like Dorothea Lange’s original negatives being reprinted now onto newer paper, that kind of stuff. So you get the original image and the best quality you really can. It’s great.

[00:57:44] CHRIS: You know your shit. You’re not messing around.

[00:57:47] CALLER: Oh, no, no, not at all. This is like literally my life, which sometimes scares me ’cause I’m maybe like a little bit too into it right now. I might need to take a step back after I graduate. But yeah, it’s something that I love.

[00:58:00] CHRIS: Why? Wait, why would you say that? Why do you need to take a step back from a thing you love?

[00:58:06] CALLER: Sometimes, because there’s a lot of stories of people who go into these crazy like Master’s programs, like the Yale program where they’re so into it for like eight years or like however long that Master’s program is on top of the Bachelor’s program, that they graduate and just like don’t take a photo ever again. Like, it’s kind of scary, like photo folklore things. So I’m kind of scared of that. Like the idea of burning out because I’m so in it right now. But I don’t think that’ll happen to me.

[00:58:33] CHRIS: I hope not. Because I can’t – I just tried to drop some knowledge of like oh, I know who Dorothea Lange is. And you told me 18 facts about her in 45 seconds. That was badass.

[00:58:46] CALLER: [laughing] Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. No, she’s great. Dorothea Lange is great. You should see that show if the world still exists.

[00:58:56] CHRIS: Yeah, I can’t see it now.

[00:58:59] CALLER: Yeah. It’s scary to think about.

[00:59:03] CHRIS: It is. 

[00:59:05] CALLER: I’m sure things will go back to normal at some point. I have like this kind of daydream I keep thinking about. About being on the ferry to Rockaway Beach and just being on top of that chillin’, everything is normal again. And I’m waiting for the day, so we’ll see.

[00:59:24] CHRIS: Well, we’ll all get there. I wonder how many calls are going to be – a marker in time. You know, you described your photos as like capturing 40 minutes of time in a still image, which I’ve never heard a photograph described that way. And I think that’s really beautiful. And I feel like one hour at a time I’m just going to capture how random bored people were feeling that night.

[00:59:47] CALLER: Yeah. Well, it’s also kind of weird to think about like the idea of living through history, like when your kid is taking a history class, this conversation is considered a primary document ’cause we’re both speaking about it in real time. And so like maybe we’ll be in a textbook. 

[01:00:04] CHRIS: He’ll just turn to me one day and he’ll go, “Dad. When you were that age, did people really use the word “like” that much?” And I’ll say, “Son cut her some slack she was just nervous, she was just a little bit nervous. Cut her some slack.”

[01:00:17] CALLER: Oh no! She was nervous. She doesn’t necessarily know what she’s talking about.

[01:00:21] CHRIS: Yes, she does. Give yourself more. Don’t do that. Don’t pretend you don’t – you’re a smart person. We got 15 seconds left. What’s your parting message to the world?

[01:00:30] CALLER: Oh, gosh. Treat people kindly in this time of need. Don’t be selfish, ’cause just because you have more of one thing, that means that other people have less of that same thing, so just be nice.

[01:00:48] CHRIS: [music transition] Caller, thank you so much. The final parting words had wisdom in them, as did many of your words and sorry I was busting you for saying the word “like” too much, but you come from a family of practical jokers. I think you’ll be fine. Thank you so much to Jared O’Connell. I hope I did you proud with this home recording. Thank you to Anita Flores for all your help with the show. Jordan Allyn for all your help with the show. Thank you to Shellshag for the music. You want to know about me? No need to go to my website. There’s no road dates right now. We’re living in the apocalypse. Don’t worry about it. Hey, if you like the show, go to Apple Podcasts – rate, review, subscribe really helps when you do. Talk to you next time.