EP. S2E39 — Love Is Blind’s Reunion Fiasco w/ Emma Gray & Claire Fallon

[00:00:28] ASHLEY RAY: Welcome to TV, I Say with Ashley Ray, your go-to podcast for discovering what to watch on TV and getting behind the scenes insight from the people who make the shows you love. Today, I had to bring in two reality show experts, Emma Gray and Claire Fallon. You know him from the Love to See It podcast. They usually talk about The Bachelor, real romance shows. We were going to have a big old Love is Blind extravaganza today. That was the plan. But you know what happens when you make plans? Netflix slaps you in the face. And that’s what Netflix did because their amazing live reunion that they hyped did not happen and was not live. So, we had to adapt. We didn’t get to watch the episode until the next day. So, we’re going to still get to it. We’re going to get into the memes, the jokes, the Netflix failure of it all. We’re going to talk about that. But before we do, I’m going to share my watchlist–what I’ve been looking at because there is so much TV back, baby. Now, I promise you, no spoilers. You know how we do here at TV, I Say, so don’t be afraid. I’m just going to give you some things to watch that I have been enjoying now that we are back. Oh, we are back in the thick of it because a certain I guess you’d call it a “sitcom” is back. Barry. Famous comedy, at least at the Emmys, Barry. The comedy that makes you feel like you’re having a heart attack, Barry. The comedy that is terrifying, Barry. It is back. We got two episodes–two amazing, amazing episodes. I believe when showrunners and producers and writers say things like, “Oh, I look at my TV show like a movie,” they’re wrong. That’s a silly thing to say. A TV show is a TV show. And usually, the people who say that just don’t have respect for the medium of TV and they need to believe they’re creating something different, like a film, that just is structured like a TV show. But no, what you’re doing is making television, which, you know, for decades now has taken many forms and formats. But when Bill Hader says, “Barry is a movie,” he’s the only person who is right. He’s the only person who gets to say that because Barry is a movie. These two episodes that we got to see had such an amazing rhythm, and so much happens in such little time. But there are complete arcs for every major character. Like I said, no spoilers. I’m not going to say too much because so much happens. But you see that so many of these characters are still dealing with the same triggers–the same problems–even though nearly everyone has had a huge reversal of fortune or their situation. So, I have no idea where the season is going to go, and that makes me so, so excited. So, Barry… Welcome back, baby. Welcome back, Barry. I love that show, and I’m so happy that we got to team it up with Succession. After the Netflix Love is Blind failure, I think all of us were just, like, sitting at our TVs, counting down like, “Oh, if Netflix doesn’t get this going by 5:45, it’s over.” That is when I will be jumping over to Succession, which is exactly what I did. And goodness, what an episode. It’s almost one of those things where it’s like, “I don’t know if it was better than last week’s–Connor’s wedding.” It’s like the other side of the show, when it comes to what I love about Succession. If, you know, Conner’s wedding was what the show does at its best in big moments and high drama–that and, say, what happened with Kendall and the waiter in season one–that was Connor’s wedding. This episode? This episode–this is what happens when Succession is just at its silliest. When you really have Shiv Roy falling down steps. When you have Tom at the back of a memorial, just talking smack. It is when you just have Tom truly being like, “Well–if I if I may–I’m just here to serve. And what about me as CEO?” And Frank coming at him with the “Okay, man. Let me just present this to you as a friend. No one likes you.” It is Succession at its best tone and rhythm when it comes to comedy and being absolutely vicious. I cannot say enough about Marcia. Marcia Roy returns to the estate–to the Roy Estate–to her rightful claim to the throne, which is that of Queen because she is Queen Marcia, and she lets Carrie know it. And that scene… If I could tattoo a scene of television to my chest, it would be Marcia Roy going, “We’re getting Carrie a taxi… to the subway… so she can go home… to her little apartment.” Oh, the cadence, the rhythm–Emmy. Emmy across the board. Sorry to all the other shows. Oh, that moment–it got me. So, Succession, wherever you take me this final season–oh, Captain, my Captain–I’m in. I’ll even make a movie reference. Right? That’s the one with Robin Williams. The kids stand on the desk, right? I dated a guy who made me watch that so many times. Anyway, next up on the watchlist, I have been diving deep into Paramount+ because–I don’t know–I got a free trial. But I started with Rise of the Pink Ladies. It’s a Grease prequel set in the, like, 1950s or ’40s. There’s a lot of talk about communists, but actually the era it’s set in is very unclear because there’s, like, desegregation. But, anyway, it’s a prequel to Grease that explains how the Pink Ladies came to be. Honestly, you know, I’m an American child–red blooded kid. I was obsessed with grease as a kid. Like, don’t we all have that period when we’re like–I don’t know–seven to mid-13 when you’re just like, “Grease is so fun. Aw.” So, yeah, there’s something about it where I’m like, “Yeah, I see the joy in telling the story of the Pink Ladies.” It is a diverse cast, but not in a way that’s forced or, you know, nonsensical. They do include it in the plotline. There is a lot about how there is discrimination. But again, it’s like, “Okay.” You know, it’s an interesting look on race and diversity in this musical world. But at the same time, there is an entire dance number where these racists from a painting come alive and do a little dance number with these fake KKK costumes. So just the same kind of corny tone as the Grease movie, where you’re like, “Is that the choice you wanted to make? Okay.” I will say that I’m absolutely in on it. It kind of fills the same gap that Daisy Jones and The Six did, where you absolutely know it’s not, you know, realistic to the world of Grease. But it’s fun enough, everyone’s having a good time, and the actors are great that you’re just like, “Yeah, sure, I buy it. Okay. This is how the Pink Ladies came to be. Why not? Okay. I’m in.” It’s that easy sometimes. So, you know, Rise of the Pink Ladies on Paramount+. What else I’ve been watching on Paramount+… Because when you finish all the episodes that are available of Pink Ladies, it will start playing this other show automatically called School Spirits. And if you don’t feel like moving, next thing you know, you’re two episodes deep, and you’re like, “Hey, this is pretty interesting.” And that is what happened to me with our next show on the watchlist, School Spirits. If you’re aware of the show Ghosts on CBS, which, again, I love. Also want to give that a shout out on the watchlist because it did come back from hiatus a few weeks ago. We’ve had two new episodes. I have not shouted them out, but I do want to talk about Pete’s daughter’s wedding ep that just came out last week. It was really charming. Really what I love about the show Ghosts. Ghosts–a complete hit on CBS. CBS looked at that and went, “We need more shows with ghosts. Ghosts? That’s where it is. People love ghosts.” And I guess they looked at their streaming platform and went, “Well, this is for children and younger people. So, what if we had to show with ghosts and younger people?” And that is how I believe School Spirits came to exist. It is a show about a girl who goes missing. She doesn’t remember, though, like, how… She’s gone missing in our world. But her spirit is haunting her high school. And she realizes there are other ghosts that are her age also haunting this high school because anyone who dies at the high school stays there. That is ghost rules. You know, if you die on the property, you stay on the property. So, she knows she’s dead. But she doesn’t remember what happened. No one can find her body. She can’t find her body. So, it’s, like, very weird. And she starts bonding with these other ghosts but realizes she has, like, a special ability to connect with a living person. But again, it’s at a high school, so it’s not the show Ghosts because it’s a high school. And there’s, like, a range of, like, funny, charming ghosts from a variety of decades. One of them is a hippie girl who they all think did bad drugs. Oh, wow. No, her name isn’t Flower; it’s something else. Because again, it’s not the show Ghosts. It is School Spirits, and it’s about teenagers. But it does just cover all the same archetypes. But what I’ll say is it’s a really engaging show. It’s pulled me in. It has a real love for the teen drama. Each episode is named after a classic show, like, you know, Dazed and Confused. Yeah, little puns with ghosts in them. “Séance Anything,” for example. So, it does do a great job sending up all of these different genres within the teen coming of age experience, which I love as a person who just celebrates all things pop culture. So, there’s something really fun about it. Also, an amazing himbo performance from the football player, love interest ghost in the show. And you know, I love a show with a good himbo. So, I got to give it up for that. That is, you know, really what I want to celebrate on the watchlist. I also want to give a shout out to Saturday Night Live. We had the episode with Quinta Brunson, which was great. And then we got Molly Shannon, which was also great. But I’m surprised there wasn’t a little more buzz around it. But I think also it was very kind of Molly focused in a way where she almost just kind of blended in with the SNL cast so much, it didn’t feel like we had sort of a guest host, you know? It just was like, “Oh, is this the all-SNL episode?” Because she’s such a stellar SNL cast member? You know, she knows the show. She’s made basically what the show is today. That’s all thanks to Molly. So, I love the Molly Shannon episode as someone who, you know, screams when she says, “Superstar,” because I love Molly Shannon. But I think people were expecting maybe a few more popups, like, maybe from her old castmate, Ana Gasteyer, who also has a big show out right now. So, it was a little like, “Well, where’s that?” But this past weekend we got an episode with Ana de Armas and, you know, she really did try. But what I loved in the episode is that Molly Kearney, SNL’s new cast member, who is one of my favorite comics, got to have a Weekend Update moment that was absolutely hilarious. They addressed, you know, what is happening in this country against trans children. It was also very funny, and they got to hang from the ceiling. So, I have to recommend that moment. So, if you’re someone who doesn’t watch Saturday Night Live live, like me and my mother, and you just watch the highlights, go, and give yourself a treat; go watch some of the Molly Shannon episode, and then go watch Molly Kearney on the Ana de Armas episode in Weekend Update. You’re going to enjoy that. You’re going to like that. You’re going to laugh. So, there you go. That is my watchlist. There was even more. Bob’s Burgers, The Great North, Last Week Tonight–those are just shows I was watching while I waited for Love is Blind to be on. But you know what? We’re going to talk all about it. After the break, I will be joined by Emma Gray and Claire Fallon to dive into the Love is Blind Season Four Reunion. So, stick around. Welcome back, TV Club. I knew that I had to call upon some reality dating show experts to help me break down The Love is Blind Season Four Reunion. You know them as the hosts of the Love to See It Podcast where they recap The Bachelor and a slew of other dating shows. I want to welcome Emma Gray and Clare Fallon. Welcome to TV Club.

 

[00:13:50] EMMA GRAY: Oh my gosh. We’re so excited to be here on this auspicious Post-Netflix Meltdown Day.

 

[00:13:57] ASHLEY RAY: Is Mercury in retrograde? Yeah. Yeah, it is.

 

[00:14:00] CLAIRE FALLON: I’m a little afraid to tape, actually.

 

[00:14:04] EMMA GRAY: A lot could go wrong. Is our audio going to start glitching? I can start just, like, tapping the mic wildly if you want to really get in the mood.

 

[00:14:12] ASHLEY RAY: So, let’s, like, break down this mishap for listeners because shockingly, this morning, a lot of people were asking me, “What do you mean something happened with The Love is Blind Reunion? I didn’t hear anything about this.” There hasn’t been–I’m shocked–a real article breaking down this wild timeline of events.

 

[00:14:29] EMMA GRAY: I need an oral history of backstage in the green room.

 

[00:14:35] ASHLEY RAY: In the green room. Yeah, the live audience–what were you doing sitting there the, like, two hours before they finally decided, “We messed up. We just have to, like, tape this and do something.” So originally Netflix says, “Hey, we’re going to do our first live reunion.” Has Netflix done anything like this before? Yes, they did the Chris Rock special live. Didn’t seem to have any problems with that. They did a few live things when they had the Netflix Is a Joke Comedy Festival in LA. No issues there. Guessing those shows didn’t have big audiences because they’re not Love is Blind.

 

[00:15:11] EMMA GRAY: That’s the thing.

 

[00:15:13] CLAIRE FALLON: Love is blind is bigger than Chris Rock now.

 

[00:15:16] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah, sorry, but true.

 

[00:15:18] EMMA GRAY: Love is Blind is, like, the number one across multiple countries. You are heavily promoting this.

 

[00:15:25] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah. I mean, it’s their biggest hit. You know, people are excited. We’re all ready to tune in. And at 5:00, when it’s supposed to start, you just get, like, an error message. Or you couldn’t even get the live thing to come up. It’s just, like, not working. People are trying different devices. Personally, I was on two different laptops, a phone, and an iPad.

 

[00:15:45] EMMA GRAY: Mine wouldn’t even show up on mobile. It wouldn’t show up on my laptop or my phone. I could only get it on my TV. And even then, I would click it, and the purple screen saying, “This is starting soon” would come up. And then it would try to reload. And then it would say, “This cannot be played right now.” And it was just a cycle of me doing that for an hour and a half.

 

[00:16:06] CLAIRE FALLON: Yeah. Say what you will about, you know, network TV. They know how to air a show at more or less exactly the time that they told you it would air.

 

[00:16:13] ASHLEY RAY: Exactly the time.

 

[00:16:15] CLAIRE FALLON: Yeah.

 

[00:16:16] EMMA GRAY: It’s kind of their thing.

 

[00:16:17] ASHLEY RAY: Even when they’re like, “Uh oh, a football game aired,” they know how to handle it, okay? Yeah. And so, Netflix has no real reason to mess this up. They should know what traffic demand might look like. They should know the excitement of people who, like, stay up until midnight to watch this show. But they weren’t ready. And so, they eventually decided, “Okay, we’re just going to record something and put it up immediately.” They record a reunion. And at some point, in the night, some people are like, “Oh my gosh, I’m able to see.” If you, like, had the live thing loading, if you fast forward it an hour ahead, you were able to finally start it. And so those people did that and then, brilliant geniuses that they are, went, “Let me live stream this on TikTok for the people and on YouTube live.” So, there was a secondary audience of people who watched the whole reunion just through TikTok Live and Instagram Live.

 

[00:17:10] EMMA GRAY: That’s the kind of Democratic thinking I like to see.

 

[00:17:15] CLAIRE FALLON: That’s what I should have done today to expand my platform because at some point, they took it down. And I tried to click into it. I had left the window open. I could still watch it. So, this morning I watched the reunion that other people couldn’t access. I could have made bank.

 

[00:17:33] EMMA GRAY: And I tried to rewatch, and I was completely locked out. I watched it in a very odd way where I did manage to get it during the live. But it was already, like, 15 to 20 minutes in, so I started in the middle and then watched to the end and then on, like, the fifth try was able to rewind to the part that I had missed. Just a complete mess from top to bottom.

 

[00:18:03] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah. For me, I was completely locked out. I just kept getting the error message and all these people on Twitter yelling at me, going, “You just have to click the fast forward button!” And I’m like, “There’s no fast forward. I’m losing my mind. You’re all gaslighting me. This is tearing this country apart.” I’m just angry. And finally, they showed a photo. You’re like, “Okay, I guess the episode is up.” But it was just a photo. You couldn’t click on it. And then on Twitter, they were like, “Hey, we’re so sorry. Here’s a picture of everyone at the reunion. It’ll be up at 12:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time.” And my stupid, like, stoned ass was like, “Oh, 12:00. Midnight,” because that’s usually when Netflix puts new things up. So, I was like, “I just have to stay up another hour. It’ll be up at midnight. Fine.” At midnight, I’m immediately on the app, and it’s the same thing. I’m just like, “Why won’t it let me click?” And then I look, and I’m like, “Oh because I’m stupid. They’re doing it at noon.” So, we had to wait.

 

[00:19:00] EMMA GRAY: Why would you think that?

 

[00:19:01] CLAIRE FALLON: Why would it take them until noon Pacific the next day? It was supposed to air at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

 

[00:19:08] EMMA GRAY: And it wasn’t supposed to be edited because it was supposed to be live.

 

[00:19:15] ASHLEY RAY: Just put it out there? And it was edited this morning. I was waiting. I gave it time. That’s why I waited until 12:04. And as soon as it did, I was like, “Let’s go.” I’m truly canceling my subscription. I’m so angry.

 

[00:19:27] EMMA GRAY: I saw someone tweet, “We are all entitled to share one password now.” And I agree. It’s the least they could do for us.

 

[00:19:36] ASHLEY RAY: It’s the least they could do.

 

[00:19:37] CLAIRE FALLON: What were they doing? I mean, I imagine they were trying to fix the audio issues. I didn’t watch the edited version because…

 

[00:19:46] EMMA GRAY: We only saw the live version.

 

[00:19:47] CLAIRE FALLON: Yeah, so I saw the live version. Did they fix the fact that the audio, like, skipped and repeated every 5 seconds in the edit?

 

[00:19:55] ASHLEY RAY: Yes. So, there were clearly some audio issues because you could tell a few times when the people were talking into their microphones, they were getting either weird feedback–and they would stop for a minute–or it just sounded weird in the background. So, I think they tried to clean that up. But all of the captions were completely off. Like, all the captions were super, super slow compared to when they were talking. So, I still was just like, “What did you do with all this extra time?”

 

[00:20:22] EMMA GRAY: Did they cut out the part where Vanessa had to tell someone in the control room that their mic was on? Or did they leave that in?

 

[00:20:31] ASHLEY RAY: They cut that out. See, that’s the experience I wanted. And now you are filling me in on everything. So, I want to hear your experiences with this reunion, please. What shocked you? What moments made you go, “Wow, I would have tweeted about this if we were all watching at the same time”?

 

[00:20:50] EMMA GRAY: I thought this reunion was such a disaster. I thought it was so badly done. We’ve said this from Season One–Nick and Vanessa–they are not journalists. They are not equipped. They are no Andy Cohen. They do not come properly prepared.

 

[00:21:06] ASHLEY RAY: They are not Shaun Robinson. Got to give Shaun a shoutout.

 

[00:21:11] EMMA GRAY: Like, literally anyone who has a long running career of doing interviews–they’re not any of those people. I’ve just been very immersed in Scandoval, so Andy Cohen is top of mind. And Bravo is also just very good at, like, if they’re going to bring up some text messages…

 

[00:21:29] ASHLEY RAY: Have it on the screen. Okay. Bravo knows how to do a reunion.

 

[00:21:36] EMMA GRAY: What are we doing? What are we doing, talking around some text messages from Jackie and just gesturing at them?

 

[00:21:44] ASHLEY RAY: Something Bravo made clear last night when they were throwing so much shade at Netflix–they were like, “We know how to do a reunion. We would have been ready for this. We wouldn’t have had you waiting.” And Netflix does this thing where they’re referring to, like, “Oh, maybe Marshall went out with someone.” And it’s like, “Bravo would have had footage, photos…”

 

[00:22:00] EMMA GRAY: Like, remind us who Keisha is.

 

[00:22:02] ASHLEY RAY: I had no idea what he was even talking about. I was like, “That could be any person in the pods, or, like, I don’t know, someone’s friend.” I had no idea.

 

[00:22:12] CLAIRE FALLON: I was googling different spellings of “Keisha Love is Blind.”

 

[00:22:16] EMMA GRAY: I finally found her, but it took, like, 15 minutes.

 

[00:22:19] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah. And I think she had maybe one conversation–maybe with Chelsea–I don’t even remember. And she literally just had, at that point, the label “Chelsea’s friend.” And I was like, “Oh, that’s how you know she’s not going further in the show.” they weren’t even calling her “contestant Number, blah, blah.” But she was just, like, in the pods and already being labeled as someone’s friend. And I was like, “Girlie. You’re not making it to the vacation. Sorry.”

 

[00:22:47] CLAIRE FALLON: Yeah. One of the moments that would have had, like, the most impact was completely undermined by their lack of preparation because when we get to litigating the conflict between Jackie and Marshall, she alleges that he said something extremely derogatory. And then Marshall references text messages that were leaked of Jackie’s that indicated the kind of things she said to him in their conversations. And they don’t have the text messages ready.

 

[00:23:21] EMMA GRAY: Right, they’re alluding to the fact that Jackie may have said some things that were homophobic, and Marshall said some things that were transphobic. And they do a terrible job of, first of all, actually telling the audience what it is that they’re trying to litigate in the first place.

 

[00:23:39] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah, the context was very unclear for, like, the tone of conversation. And it also confused me because Jackie said… It was off camera, but they were filming because they were filling out their marriage certificate, so there were cameras. And I was just like, “If you could pull out the cuties footage for Zanab and Cole last season, there’s definitely ‘filling out our marriage certificate’ footage somewhere.” Like, what are we talking about?

 

[00:24:06] EMMA GRAY: And also, if you’re gonna then allude to these, like, derogatory things that were allegedly said, then maybe we should unpack the impact of that and how that could be very harmful to the trans and queer communities to have those things out there. Maybe ask Marshall and Jackie if they have learned and reflected and regret making those statements. None of that was present.

 

[00:24:29] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah, and that was, for me, the biggest sort of conflict I was waiting for them to address. I know people were super excited about Irina and Micah, but they were such boring mean girls to me that by this point of the reunion I was just like, “I don’t really need Irina to come out and explain, like, why she’s a mean girl. I get it. She wanted to be on TV. Great. It worked. She did it.”

 

[00:24:51] EMMA GRAY: She was rude. We got it. We know who she is?

 

[00:24:56] ASHLEY RAY: And it did give Bliss a chance to really stand by her man. And I respect her for that because I don’t know that I could sit next to a man who is fully breaking down the lyrics to Lee Ann Womack’s I Hope You Dance like it is Shakespeare. “Lee Ann said, ‘There are going to be mountains.’” I was just like, “Did he say ‘Lee Ann’? He’s on a first name basis?”

 

[00:25:22] CLAIRE FALLON: He’s like, “You have to understand the mountains that Lee Ann is referring to are her parents. And I am the one who does fear the mountains in the distance and who chooses to take the path of least resistance, which is, of course, Irina. I think we can all see.”

 

[00:25:41] ASHLEY RAY: “And then that is why–and we both hope in the end–we do dance.” That’s when I was like, “She really has to love this nerd because she is just smiling.”

 

[00:25:54] EMMA GRAY: She does. That’s how you know.

 

[00:25:55] ASHLEY RAY: That’s how you know because Tiffany had a look on her face like, “How does anyone take him seriously?” Tiffany looked like she just wanted to break down giggling and was stifling it. And then Bliss is just looking at him like, “That’s my man. That’s my guy.”

 

[00:26:25] EMMA GRAY: I’m glad that all three of these couples are still married. Kind of wild. That was, like, the headline.

 

[00:26:31] CLAIRE FALLON: That was a bombshell.

 

[00:26:34] ASHLEY RAY: They’re still married.

 

[00:26:36] EMMA GRAY: That was revealed in the first, like, two minutes.

 

[00:26:38] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah. And let’s be real about the couple we doubted the most, Kwame and Chelsea.

 

[00:26:44] EMMA GRAY: Correct.

 

[00:26:46] CLAIRE FALLON: You doubted that?

 

[00:26:49] ASHLEY RAY: I mean–I swear to God–after their wedding, when Chelsea was like, “My husband,” Kwame straight up rolled his eyes.

 

[00:26:55] EMMA GRAY: That was my reaction. I was like, “Oh no. Kwame’s face is about to be memed.”

 

[00:27:00] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah. Like, as soon as he sees that Micah is single, this is done. And there they were with their, like, matching pink accents. And I’m going to be honest about this, after this reunion, I do believe that Kwame got a bad edit and maybe they actually are in love.

 

[00:27:20] EMMA GRAY: Honestly, me too. I think that this reunion is the best that they have come off, especially Kwame. He seemed so much more relaxed than we’ve seen him. And it did make me wonder, like, given that they really only showed us conflict between the two of them–we barely saw them having any fun together–I was like, “Was this just the show not wanting us to guess who ends up together?”

 

[00:27:49] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah, because I think they had, like, you know, Tiffany and Brett. Most beautiful couple in the world. Absolutely amazing. Absolutely boring. I sobbed during their wedding. I love them. But also, we knew what was going to happen. They had to steal his pants to create any sort of drama. I truly think the producers were just like, “Just give him the wrong pants. Just make something happen.”

 

[00:28:10] EMMA GRAY: Oh, absolutely.

 

[00:28:11] ASHLEY RAY: For like the highlight reel.

 

[00:28:13] CLAIRE FALLON: I think he knew. I think that’s why he was yelling at the cameras. He was like, “This should not happen. I know you stole my pants. That’s not cool.”

 

[00:28:21] ASHLEY RAY: He’s like, “This is a day of planning. And it’s not even like his anger is at his friends or anyone. He’s straight up like, “I know production brings in our pants.” So, I felt like with that, they tried to find them drama. And then Jackie and Marshall was drama, but it just, like, fizzled out really quickly because Jackie didn’t want to play the game. She was like, “I’m just going to go.” And so, I think they had to find something with Chelsea and Kwame, and they just, I think, gave them both a bad edit. And they both really, I thought, did a great job in this reunion of standing their ground and being like, “You didn’t see this. You didn’t see this.” And I did love Kwame straight up being like, “I love my name. I love who I am. The producers are the ones who told me not to talk about race, to do this, and to consider changing my name. I don’t know why they took out the part where I said, ‘I’m proud of who I am and my name.’” And I do think there were a few times when Chelsea and Kwame were like, “And we saw what people were saying on the internet about this.” And I was like, “Are they talking specifically about my tweet?” There were a few moments where I was like, “Are they talking to me specifically because I was the one who was like, ‘Ooh, Kwame clearly has problems because he doesn’t love his name.’”

 

[00:29:33] CLAIRE FALLON: Yeah, it’s hard not to feel personally called out when I watch it. Every time they’re like, “We saw the criticisms,” and I was like, “I made all of them.”

 

[00:29:41] ASHLEY RAY: I’m like, “Okay, so you did see what I said. Great. Great.”

 

[00:29:45] CLAIRE FALLON: “It wasn’t really for you to see, but…”

 

[00:29:48] EMMA GRAY: We were clearly led there.

 

[00:29:51] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah. The producers wanted us to be like, “Oh, his mom doesn’t want her to take the last name and isn’t, like, ever going to meet her.” And I honestly was shocked when, like, his siblings came. The way the producers had set it up, it just seemed like his entire family was against this. So, when his sister was so nice, I was kind of like, “Okay, maybe we aren’t seeing all of this.” But also, they kept in that weird edit where he’s bragging about how great Portland is. So, I think they just didn’t want him to look like a sane, good person.

 

[00:30:22] EMMA GRAY: Yeah, I also think maybe he was just really drunk at that point because he’s outside the bachelor party like, “Seattle thinks it’s so great, but actually it’s overpriced!”

 

[00:30:34] ASHLEY RAY: He’s like, “Portland has soccer.”

 

[00:30:36] CLAIRE FALLON: If everything else you say makes it sound like you would rather die than move to Seattle and be with Chelsea forever, then that plays very differently than if you’re in a pretty good relationship. And you’re like, “Seattle, though. I don’t know about that.” Everything was selected to play into– Yeah, every scene between them seems like they found the exact moment where Kwame was like, “I’m just not in the mood for Chelsea’s whole thing right now. I’m tired, I’m distracted, and I just, like, can’t be fed a strawberry right now.” And if that’s most of your relationship, that’s a huge red flag. But in a stressful, high intensity period in your life, having some of those moments is not unusual. And maybe they just got screwed. I don’t know.

 

[00:31:26] ASHLEY RAY: I think if I had seen their Calvin Klein pod date that Chelsea described, I wouldn’t have been as uncomfortable with the boudoir couples shoot they made us watch.

 

[00:31:39] CLAIRE FALLON: I don’t think anything could make that seem normal.

 

[00:31:42] ASHLEY RAY: Because I mean, to me, the Calvin Klein made it so much worse. That made it, to me, so clear that it was, like, Chelsea’s 1990s teen fantasy of her relationship, where she was like, “We’re going to do a Calvin Klein ad together. That’s the hottest thing we could do.”

 

[00:32:01] CLAIRE FALLON: Even when she explains the date in the pod, she’s like, “That was our thing that we bonded over. I love Calvin Klein, and I bought Calvin Kleins in advance for whichever guy I would meet in the pods. And I sent them to Kwame, and I asked him to wear them.” And I’m like, “It really still sounds like Chelsea was driving the boat on the whole Calvin Klein fantasy.”

 

[00:32:22] ASHLEY RAY: And Kwame was just like, “I mean, they’re comfortable, so I was in.” But I did at least walk away going, “I do think those two are going to make it.” I actually think all the couples that got married this season are, like, in a better place than all the couples last season. These couples make me go, “Oh, they actually, like, are in love with each other as people.”

 

[00:32:44] EMMA GRAY: Yeah, I think they’re good. Like, I actually believe in these couples as well. I mean, and it’s also always nice that we get these check ins on Love is Blind after they’ve been married for some time, so you kind of figure, “This relationship has at least been stress tested a bit.” If they say that they’re happy like…

 

[00:33:05] ASHLEY RAY: I guess they are

 

[00:33:06] EMMA GRAY: They probably are.

 

[00:33:07] ASHLEY RAY: And the big sort of reveal for the reunion, since we didn’t get it live, was them being like, “Here are some clips of the couples and how they live together.” Okay, Brett and Tiffany’s was absolutely adorable. And when I saw Zack and Bliss and Zack was singing another song to her, I was like, “Okay, these two absolute weirdos are each other’s soul mates.” Dancing next to that creepy owl painting. Yeah, she was into it.

 

[00:33:39] CLAIRE FALLON: That’s got to be a good song.

 

[00:33:40] EMMA GRAY: I mean, as Irina said, the things she found repellant about Zack, Bliss loves. And that’s beautiful.

 

[00:33:47] ASHLEY RAY: One of the great moments–when Zack is singing the camera chose to just focus on Irina’s face during that entire moment. And it’s like she knew she could not move. She could not make a single emotion. She just sat there like, “I’m not going to get got this time.” Before we go, we have a little time left. I want to get into the Paul and Micah situation. That was more the biggest kind of drama that came up outside of Jackie being boring. Paul and Micah kind of had a showdown where Zack was, like, whispering in Paul’s ear. And Vanessa tried to make it into this big moment. But then, I think, we all remember Paul and Micah are just too boring to really be drama.

 

[00:34:32] CLAIRE FALLON: I mean, it just turned into this weird thing where Zack was trying to call Micah out for coming for blood while Paul was taking accountability. And it didn’t really seem like either thing was happening. I was like, “It doesn’t seem like Paul is taking a ton of accountability, and it also doesn’t seem like Micah’s coming for blood. They’re both just kind of mumbling a lot.”

 

[00:34:54] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah.

 

[00:34:55] EMMA GRAY: And it felt to me fair for Micah to be upset that, as of Friday, she saw a person she was dating tell an international audience that she was, like, not fit to be a mother.

 

[00:35:10] ASHLEY RAY: And that was so important.

 

[00:35:11] CLAIRE FALLON: “She doesn’t exude a certain intangible nurturing essence.”

 

[00:35:15] EMMA GRAY: I think you mean “intangible, ineffable” quality.

 

[00:35:18] ASHLEY RAY: And Paul just kept talking in circles–that was so aggravating–where he’d kind of want to take accountability and be like, “Well, that’s not what I meant.” But then he’d be like, “But also, I don’t think she could be nurturing at all.” And it was just like, “What are you saying?”

 

[00:35:29] EMMA GRAY: “I didn’t mean that. I just meant she doesn’t have the ineffable quality of being nurturing that I wanted to see in a woman who would be a mother. Okay?”

 

[00:35:38] CLAIRE FALLON: I think it all boils down to, like, “I worded things poorly, and that was so hurtful, and I’m so sorry. Also, she is not nurturing. That’s important in a mother.” It’s like, “Well, you basically just said it again, Paul.”

 

[00:35:53] ASHLEY RAY: Just said it again. And then Micah just was sitting there like, “Okay, that did not clarify anything. And I just feel worse.” But it did make me go, “Oh, wow. She really, I think, was all in on the relationship and would have probably been absolutely happy married to him.” Like, I do think she was just the kind of person who was like, “He’s cute. He’s my guy. Fine.” And he just would have been like, “She meets the minimum requirements for what I allow in a standard female. So, they’re perfect.”

 

[00:36:26] EMMA GRAY: Yeah, probably for the best that they’re not married. I think maybe they both need to do a little bit more self-reflection, growth, figuring out what it actually is that they each want from a relationship because I’m just not sure either of them is there. And, like, Zack–I appreciate his loyalty–but buddy, you got to reign it in. This was not a good look for your friend.

 

[00:36:53] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah. Yeah. And I thought they tried to give him kind of a Cole moment where it was like, “Oh, everybody’s being mean to Paul.” But no one was. Everyone was like, “Bro, you don’t make sense.”

 

[00:37:05] EMMA GRAY: No one was attacking him.

 

[00:37:05] CLAIRE FALLON: It was the mildest possible pushback that he was receiving. People were really just like, “Can you actually clarify whether you think Micah would be a bad mother?” And Zack was like, “That’s enough. I have heard this man’s name dragged through the mud.”

 

[00:37:22] ASHLEY RAY: “Leave my boyfriend alone.” And at one point, I think, like, as he was about to defend Paul, Bliss was like, “Get comfortable, baby. Yeah, get him, babe. Get comfortable.” And I was just like, “Oh God, they’re too in love and disgusting to me.” So, I guess as a whole, we have to say this season of Love is Blind was a success even if the reunion was a disaster.

 

[00:37:48] EMMA GRAY: Disaster. But we got, you know, three marriages.

 

[00:37:52] CLAIRE FALLON: We’re just going to have to wait for After the Altar.

 

[00:37:56] EMMA GRAY: But yeah, three couples and a Josh & Jackie.

 

[00:37:59] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah, three couples and a Josh & Jackie, who I don’t believe are together. I truly believe she was like, “I’ll give you 80 bucks if you come sit in my apartment.” He didn’t say a word the whole time. He looks so uncomfortable.

 

[00:38:10] EMMA GRAY: She’s dropping receipts left and right. I think they’re genuinely together.

 

[00:38:16] ASHLEY RAY: I guess I need to go check her Instagram because I just was like, This… I don’t trust it.”

 

[00:38:22] CLAIRE FALLON: He calls himself a “girl dad” of their dog. Does that not sound like a man truly in love to you?

 

[00:38:30] EMMA GRAY: Josh is very much a man who would have one daughter and suddenly be like, “Women are people, too. I don’t know if you’ve heard. As the father of a daughter, they’re human.”

 

[00:38:43] ASHLEY RAY: And a female dog would get him, like, halfway there. Okay, I got to go check the receipts. I know Zack mentioned receipts he posted on his Instagram, which was actually just a very moving, touching story about his mother and addiction and grace and forgiveness that made me go, “I’ve been too mean to this guy.”

 

[00:39:03] EMMA GRAY: No, I think Zack is truly a good human. I will say, Jackie’s receipts are actual receipts relevant to the show. Worth checking those out.

 

[00:39:15] ASHLEY RAY: Let’s get to it, listeners, I want to thank you both for joining me. Emma Gray. Claire Fallon. Do you have anything else you want to share about the reunion? Where can people follow you?

 

[00:39:24] EMMA GRAY: You can find Our Love Is Blind recaps for the whole season, and we’ll be dropping a reunion pod shortly over on our Substack, Rich Text. claireandemma.substack.com. You can find that. And then you can find all of our other wonderful rom com and reality dating show content over on Love to See It, which you can get wherever you get your podcasts.

 

[00:39:48] CLAIRE FALLON: And thank you so much for having us. There’s just way too much to get into in this whole reunion. But I think we really hit the high points.

 

[00:39:56] ASHLEY RAY: We hit the high points. And at the end of the day, what matters is the class action lawsuit we’re all going to join into against Netflix.

 

[00:40:05] EMMA GRAY: Exactly.

 

[00:40:05] ASHLEY RAY: I think together we could all at least get, like, $15.

 

[00:40:08] EMMA GRAY: That’s what we deserve.

 

[00:40:10] CLAIRE FALLON: I want the option to go to a website to opt in to receive a check for $4.17.

 

[00:40:17] EMMA GRAY: That would be justice for me.

 

[00:40:19] ASHLEY RAY: Yeah. Or even a PayPal deposit that takes 25% taxes or, like, whatever.

 

[00:40:24] EMMA GRAY: I’ll take an Amazon gift card.

 

[00:40:30] ASHLEY RAY: I want to thank my amazing guests again, Emma Gray and Claire Fallon. And make sure you go listen to Love to See It Podcast because they dive deep. There was so much more we wanted to talk about with this mess. It was a tough time, and I need to thank the two of them for getting us through it. But before I let you go, let me give you some quick homework. You are going to want to watch Unstable on Netflix. All the episodes are out, and there’s only eight of them because that’s what we do now with TV. We have eight-episode seasons. You know, I recently started rewatching Dance Moms for another appearance that I’ll be doing. So, hey, put that on your list. For homework, Dance Moms, Season One, Episode One. And what I realized is the first season of Dance Mom is, like, 37 episodes. Let’s bring that back. I miss that. 37 whole episodes of that lady. Maybe not shows where ladies yell at children, but just long seasons. That would be great. But Dance Moms really represented a place and time–debuted in 2011. I’ve been revisiting some old reality shows, and it’s been a time. In my Paramount+ dive, I have been revisiting True Life. You might want to check that out. I’m also going to ask you to check out Awkwafina Is Nora from Queens on Comedy Central and also HBO Max because, you know, their whole, like, streaming deal. But this show debuted in 2020, and I do feel like it kind of got lost in the shuffle of COVID and just so much content. But I really, really enjoyed it. I thought the second season was even better and just got sharper, more clever. I loved the episode they did about the grandma. And how do you not love a show with Jaboukie? Come on. Like, what are you doing? BD Wong? You got to get into it. So, if you haven’t watched Awkwafina Is Nora from Queens, the next season is coming. So, get ready. Get ready. Go watch the old seasons. Go watch the old episodes. Like I said, HBO Max. Again, I’m going to ask you to watch Barry. Also, A Black Lady Sketch Show is back. And Bob’s Burgers, like I said, back from hiatus–again, that’s another show I feel like I don’t need to tell you to watch. There are some you just know every week I’m telling you to watch it again. Grand Crew is one of them. And The Great North is the other. This past weekend, they had a great episode about a bear that they thought had died. But it wasn’t. But it did leave me dying of laughter. But more importantly, the episode featured Grace Freud, who is so, so funny. She’s an amazing standup comic. She was doing some voice work in the show as just this very funny waitress. You probably know Grace from Girl God, Rick and Morty, Eric Andre Show. So, like I said–The Great North–they’re doing it up with all the best people in the world who are so, so funny. So, get it on your list. Go get it on your homework list, okay? I don’t need a thing to happen with The Great North, like HouseBroken, where it’s just on and nobody remembers. But I’m watching it. That’s also on your homework list–HouseBroken–because I’m not fever dreaming. Like, it’s real, right? The episodes are there. I’m watching it. Like, I’m not making it up. So, TV Club, that’s your final assignment. Go watch HouseBroken–probably on Hulu–so that I know it exists. Other people see it, right? On Fox? I swear there’s a new season of that show with episodes that I am watching. I want to thank you so much for listening. We’ll be back next week with another episode. TV, I Say with Ashley Ray is an Earwolf production made by me, Ashley Ray-Harris. It’s engineered by Abby Aguilar and produced by Amelia Chappelow. And our original theme song is by RaFia. It means so much to me if you go rate, review, subscribe. Follow TV, I Say. Let us know what you think and tell your friends. Share with your Golden Girls. Tell your Boys. If you love my TV recommendations, let everyone you know know. For special TV Club members, join my Patreon. And you can also find my full archive of ad free episodes of TV, I Say over on Stitcher Premium. Use Promo code “tvisay”–all one word–for a one-month free trial at stitcher.com/premium.