EP. 209 — An Interview with Phyllis Smith

Jenna I’m Jenna Fischer. 

Angela And I’m Angela Kinsey. 

Jenna We were on The Office together. 

Angela And we’re best friends. 

Jenna And now we’re doing the ultimate Office rewatch podcast just for you. 

Angela Each week, we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you. 

Jenna We’re the Office Ladies. Hello!

Angela Hey there everybody! We have such a fun show for you today. 

Jenna We do? We got to interview Phyllis Smith all about her time on The Office. 

Angela You know, a while back when we rewatched Phyllis’s Wedding? Well, Phyllis and and some great audio clips about that episode, but we were so excited to finally have her on the podcast as a guest to do a full interview. She told us how she got her role in The Office. It’s such a fantastic story. 

Jenna I think it’s maybe the best story of how someone got their job on The Office. 

Angela Yeah. The best origin story. Yeah. 

Jenna We also asked her all of our usual questions, you know, and Angela made sure to ask for our call sheet questions, which are now one of my favorite things of our interviews. 

Angela You just find out such interesting things about people. 

Jenna And, you know, one of the reasons I think I like it is because we know these people, and I feel like we’ve known them for so long. And then I learned something new. 

Angela Right. And we also get to talk to Phyllis about her new movie, Inside Out 2. It’s in theaters now. My family loved the first Inside Out. We watched it so many times. I can’t wait to see this one. 

Jenna Oh, same. My daughter has already clocked it. We have plans. We’re going to see it with her cousins. 

Angela Oh, so cute. 

Jenna Like, it’s going to be a family event movie for us. Everybody knows the Inside Out movies, right? It’s an animated movie. It’s from Pixar. So in the first movie, there’s a little girl, her name is Riley, and she has to move to a new city. And in this process, we get to meet all the little emotions that are living in her head, and they are voiced by different actors. Like there’s Joy that’s kind of the leading emotion in her head. Joy is played by Amy Poehler, but there’s also all these other emotions. There’s fear, anger, disgust, there’s sadness, and they kind of all come together to help Riley with this new transition. And Phyllis plays the voice of Sadness. 

Angela She’s so amazing in this role, and she’s back playing Sadness for Inside Out 2. I guess Riley is now a teenager and she’s going through puberty, which brings up a lot of new emotions. 

Jenna Yes. 

Angela Phyllis talks to us about what is so meaningful to her about these movies, and it’s just a really lovely interview. 

Jenna It really is. I thought that it went to some just really sweet places, and I think it’s such a great representation of who Phyllis is as a person. I’m really proud of it, actually. I thought her recall of Office stuff was so good. She remembers so much stuff. 

Angela I know. 

Jenna I just loved reminiscing with her. 

Angela Me too. Well, you guys, why don’t we take a break? And when we come back, it’s our interview with Phyllis. 

Phyllis Smith Whoo hoo! We made it! 

Angela Woo hoo! 

Phyllis Smith I was going to start out being really sad for you. 

Angela Oh, you were going to be Sadness. 

Phyllis Smith Yes. I was just going to say hi, guys. How are you? I’m really happy to be here to talk to you all. It’s a good day. 

Jenna Oh, my gosh, I love it. Phyllis, Inside-Out was such a huge hit in our family. The first one. 

Phyllis Smith Oh, good. 

Jenna I’m so excited there’s going to be a second one. And it just tickles me so much that your voice is in this movie. 

Phyllis Smith Oh, I’ll tell you, I’m excited to see Inside Out 2 as well. 

Angela Phyllis, we we watched it so many times. It’s one of the movies my kids have watched over and over. 

Jenna Same. 

Angela It’s just so fantastic. 

Phyllis Smith Are your kids drawn to certain emotions more than others or just, in general? 

Angela In general.

Jenna In general. I think they like that there’s this distinction between I mean, that’s what I like about it as a parent, is that we get to see all the different emotions, and then we get to see them work together. 

Phyllis Smith Right.

Angela Yeah. 

Phyllis Smith You know how I got this part? Was one of the producers on the show couldn’t sleep one night, and he threw in Bad Teacher, which was Gene and and… 

Angela Lee’s movie. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. 

Jenna That you did with Cameron Diaz? 

Phyllis Smith Yes. And he couldn’t sleep, and he threw that DVD in, and he immediately, when he heard my voice, he called Pete Docter and said, I found our Sadness. 

Jenna Wow. 

Angela Oh wow. 

Phyllis Smith And so. Yeah, it’s interesting how things just kind of go from one project to another. Had I not done Bad Teacher, I wouldn’t have been Sadness, you know? 

Angela Yeah. I had an acting teacher when I first was in Los Angeles who used to say, work begets work. Take the job. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Because you never know how it’s going to connect to the next part of your life, you know? So I was really, when I, when I actually got the call for that movie for Inside Out one, I was sitting here on our sofa and the phone rang and I didn’t recognize the number, and I answered it. It was the casting director, the Pixar casting director, and they said they’d like for you to come to Pixar to meet ’em. I went, okay. And, so that was like in 2013, maybe. With Inside Out one, I did about ten different sessions in studios. All of them were in- most of them were at Disney on their studio and some up at Pixar. But unlike with Inside Out two, because I’m not traveling, I did all of them here in Saint Louis. They were kind enough to allow me to tape here in Saint Louis. 

Angela That’s so fantastic. 

Jenna You got to make your big star demand, right? You’re like, you can have me back as Sadness, but only if you come to my town this time. That’s probably how you said it, right?

Phyllis Smith There you go. Oh, I forgot about those big star demands. Darn it, it’s all too late now. 

Jenna Had you ever done voiceover work like that before, Phyllis? 

Phyllis Smith No. When I had- my first session was at Disney Studio and I kept looking- this is so silly- I there was the music stand and there was a pencil there. And I kept thinking, what do they want me to do with a pencil? Because I’d never done voiceover before, and the fact that they change it mid-sentence and you write it down. I didn’t know any of that. And so I was so bothered by the pencil lying there and going, what am I supposed to do with it? I know I’m supposed to do something with it. And then I found out later on in the session. But, I was fortunate enough then when Amy was hired, Amy and I did about maybe six sessions together, and it was kind of a on site learning experience for me because I could watch her and and learn to do it just on site I did it. And so now it feels pretty comfortable and I like it. 

Jenna Nice. 

Phyllis Smith I could do more. Yeah. 

Jenna Well, Phyllis, thank you so much for coming on Office Ladies today. You have no idea how excited we are to get to interview you. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah, I was I was excited and also nervous for whatever reason. I’m thinking. 

Angela Oh gosh, Phyllis, you stop it. 

Phyllis Smith I was. 

Angela It’s just us gals. 

Phyllis Smith I know these gals. 

Angela Yeah. I mean, you’re the reason we have our jobs. 

Jenna That’s right. That’s true. You know, speaking of work begets work and how you never know how one thing might come from another, will you tell our listeners how you got your job on The Office? 

Phyllis Smith Oh, sure. Yeah. I was the casting associate on this show. I’d been in casting about 19 years. I was working with Allison Jones, the casting director, and we were at the point in the in the casting process where we were pairing up the actors to see what their chemistry would be together and putting them on tape for the producers and also for the network. Eventually it was going to go to the network. And we were in this very odd building where the actors sat at one end and the auditions were at the other end. And I remember Ken Kwapis, the director, he was getting his coffee together and he turned around to me and he said, Phyllis, I want you to read the character of Pam today. I went, what? And he said, I want you to read the character Pam. I went, okay, because at this point the associate wasn’t really reading with the actors. They like I said, they were pairing the Pam and the Jims and the Dwight and everybody together. And I was a little taken aback because I didn’t want to step on like, Allison Jones’ toes. She was the boss. I didn’t know if they had cleared it with her or not, but I went ahead and did it and I was so nervous again because I wanted to do a good job, not for me but for the actors. I wanted to make sure that I was right there when they needed me, timing wise and such. And one of the first pair up I had, I was Pam, and I was with Krasinski and another person who was going to audition for Dwight, and then eventually I played Dwight with two other people, and so no one ever- Greg Daniels or no one ever said to me, Phyllis, do you want to be in the show? And, I remember a fax came through to our office with an updated script, and it had Phyllis in it. And Allison goes, is this Phyllis? And I never heard anything. You know, she goes, Is this Phyllis, my Phyllis? But I never heard the answer. And then what happened was wardrobe called. I had one line in the pilot. Wardrobe called and said, I understand you’re playing the character of Phyllis. And I said, yes, I am. Because because I knew, the union rules said if wardrobe called you or if you were sent the script, that constitutes a work call. And so when wardrobe called, I knew it was to be. And I said, yes. 

Jenna Phyllis, that it was amazing. 

Angela That is so crazy. And you know what? We know from being on a set, half the time I found out things from my character from the costume department, and it’s just so wild to me that the moment you realized you had a part was because wardrobe called you. 

Phyllis Smith Because wardrobe called. Yeah, exactly. And the other part of it was I was paid up on my dues. 19 years earlier I had done one SAG job here in Saint Louis, got my SAG card, and I paid my dues every year, not because I thought I was ever- I had thought this ship had sailed, and I it was my way of like contributing to the actors. So for 19 years I paid my dues and I was all paid up when I got the Office job. 

Angela And you were ready. 

Phyllis Smith I was ready. Yeah. 

Jenna Oh my gosh. So now you do the pilot. And it was so crazy for us, Phyllis, because we had been reading with you, like you said, all along. And then now we walk on set and you are part of the cast. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. I’ll tell you, it was it was the strangest hiring in my estimation, of having hired people for 19 years. But I didn’t say no. 

Jenna I’ve told the story before, Phyllis, that you are responsible for me getting my very first speaking job on television. Because you put my tape for Spin City at the top, and you told Allison, I think she should get it. And then I got it. 

Phyllis Smith And you got it. Yeah. I remember meeting you, too. You came in was also, the one where Freaks and Geeks… 

Jenna Oh, yeah. I remember that. When I came in to audition for Freaks and Geeks. I didn’t get it, but I remember. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah, you came in for that, and I met you there. She goes, Phyllis, this is Jenna Fischer from Saint Louis. So. And then Angela, I remember when you were hired. We had a different casting session because we were creating the role and I read with you that day as well. 

Angela Not only that day, but Phyllis, the very first time I went in for all the producers, just a roomful of people. They had a camera on a tripod. You were reading the role of Michael. When Michael fake fires Pam to impress Ryan, the temp. And I think, it is my belief, Phyllis- and I’ve never really shared this- that the moment Pam calls Michael a jerk, right? I hit that word jerk so hard- probably because I’m a little southern sometimes and feisty- and the room, like, went quiet and your reaction was kind of wounded for a split second. And I think that was the birth of Angela and Phyllis. I really do, because then everyone erupted into laughter. And I remember thinking in my head, oh, wait, I don’t think they’re supposed to laugh right here. I think this is supposed to be a sad moment. 

Phyllis Smith It’s interesting, isn’t it, how your head goes through all of these exercises in a split second when you’re auditioning too, you know? It’s crazy. 

Angela Yeah. But I was so happy to see you when they brought me back in for the accountant, you know? This role of- they didn’t even have a name for her yet. And I was like, oh, oh, that’s who I read with last time. That’s Phyllis. 

Phyllis Smith Boy, we have a history, don’t we, ladies? 

Angela We do. 

Jenna We really do. 

Angela I was just going to tell you, Phyllis, you know, Jenna and I are rewatching the show and seeing some of these episodes for the very first time since they aired, you know? And we keep talking about characters we’re falling back in love with. And Phyllis is hands down one of those characters. Everything you do on the show is brilliant. Every single line you say, every look you give. It should be like an actor study class to watch you on this show. 

Phyllis Smith Oh my goodness. Well thank you. I just when tried to do it the best, I don’t know, I couldn’t, you know, I always had my sides there hidden underneath my… 

Angela In your desk drawer. You would sometimes have them in that top drawer. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. Everybody would come and know my sides were there and use them too, you know. 

Angela I would. I was always losing mine. But I knew where yours were. 

Phyllis Smith And you were welcome to use them, too. 

Jenna Phyllis, I have to ask you about your iconic Phyllis look. As we’ve been rewatching the show, we have really noticed how characters have a certain wardrobe look. And, and Phyllis, the character was in a lot of purple tones. 

Phyllis Smith Yes. 

Jenna And with the big necklaces that were almost a character in and of themselves. 

Phyllis Smith Right. They were.  

Jenna I’m curious, did you have much input into this look, when you met with Carey Bennett for that first time, how did this look come about? 

Phyllis Smith No, because I was so fresh on the scene as an actor, I didn’t know you could have input. So I just went, stood there, let them put the clothes on me, made silly faces as they took the pictures. I didn’t want my arms to be flopping around. I knew that, so I wanted my arms covered. I didn’t want them to look like I was landing planes in the in the office. 

Angela Phyllis. 

Phyllis Smith But that was about the only real parameter that I gave was that I didn’t want my arms to show. And the the jewel tones just kind of came about, I guess, with my coloring and my eye color and stuff. They just started developing the different necklaces. They actually made a lot of them to make them go with the outfit. 

Angela Did they really? I didn’t know that. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah, there’s some of them- a lot were bought, but some were had were made or adjusted or 2 or 3 put together, you know. And so for me it was always interesting. We go in for a wardrobe fitting to see what we were actually going to be- to wear, you know, what would be in our trailers to put on, because some of the outfits that we started in the beginning were there, but a lot of them had changed, just kind of miraculously. 

Angela You would have a surprise. 

Phyllis Smith Yes. 

Jenna Well, it’s funny you say that because, you know, on a lot of shows, most projects I’ve done, you do pick a full look and then that look ends up in your trailer. But with The Office, I felt like we were creating a closet of mix and match clothes. And so it’s true. I didn’t know exactly which shirt and which blouse and which cardigan were going to be together each week, because they made a whole closet for our character, and it was very mix and match. 

Phyllis Smith Exactly. 

Angela I loved going into the costume trailer for our fittings. And you if you walked in the back, every character had a whole row, like a whole row of clothes. So you could walk down the Dwight row of costumes, and it was mostly mustard colored shirts. But it was really interesting to see everyone’s like, row of clothes. 

Jenna Yeah. 

Phyllis Smith And you could actually, like you said, the the character stood out by just the look that you were walking by. 

Angela Yeah. They wouldn’t even have to, yeah they would not have have to have a label. You would know. 

Phyllis Smith Right. You know where Pam was and Angela. 

Angela Yeah. 

Phyllis Smith And Meredith. Poor Meredith. 

Angela Kate. Kate did. She had some real special outfits. 

Jenna Some crazy corduroy jumpers and, you know, sweater vests. 

Angela Well, you know what, Phyllis? We want to ask you a question that I always love to hear everyone’s answers, is that did you have a favorite episode or scene from your time on the show? Or maybe a Phyllis storyline? 

Phyllis Smith All the above. As far as favorite episodes, there’s so many that it’s hard to like just choose one. 

Angela I agree. 

Phyllis Smith But then a lot of bits and pieces from various episodes, like I love the scene when Jim in Casino Night tells Pam that he’s in love with her out in the parking lot. That scene all we still to this day, it makes me get a lump in my throat. And then when he comes in and sweeps her off her feet, that’s even more miraculous, you know? And, I love that scene. And then there’s this silly scene between Dwight and Michael where they’re standing out in front of Andy Buckley’s character’s house, and they thought that they had were the ones that kept the office from closing. 

Jenna Yes! 

Angela Yes. 

Phyllis Smith And they high five and then the one says to the other, I don’t know. How did we do it? I don’t know. They’re just like, I don’t know what we did, but we did it, you know, and it’s such a stupid little scene and for some reason it always stuck out in my mind, too, you know? And then there’s, Close your mouth, sweetie. You look like a trout. That one, Jenna and I. And then Angela, we had our whole Morroccan Christmas… 

Angela Oh my gosh. 

Phyllis Smith Where we just- when you put that hairnet on and I made you put your ear net on. 

Angela Yeah. 

Phyllis Smith That whole episode was pretty special. 

Angela Phyllis, my kids lost their minds when they watched the scene between you and I where I come up to you, and I like I’m like, Phyllis, these are forks. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. 

Angela That scene, they couldn’t get over it. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. So when you’re explaining everything. 

Angela They’ll say to me in the kitchen sometimes, mom, this is a fork. I’m like, okay. Haha. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah, we had some really great scenes didn’t we? 

Angela We did. 

Jenna One of my favorite storylines, Phyllis, is when we find out that you do not like the office administrator over at Vance Refrigeration. 

Angela Yes!

Phyllis Smith Oh, yeah. 

Jenna You do not care for her. 

Phyllis Smith Because she looks pretty much like me, you know, first off, younger, though. 

Jenna Yes. And, and Pam sees this woman as kind of a mentor, and that is a storyline I wanted to see more of. I really, really, I could have watched that for multiple episodes. 

Phyllis Smith I guess maybe I put in a wise word into Bob or something because she didn’t come back. 

Jenna She did not. That’s right. 

Phyllis Smith I tell you, the one scene I had a really hard time not laughing through was when Steve and I at my wedding. 

Angela Oh, gosh. 

Phyllis Smith When he came into the bride’s room to give me advice. And we could not get through the word pungent because I had let a toot. And every time he would say pungent he would break out in his cackle. He couldn’t. He couldn’t get through it, and I couldn’t get through it. And then we hear the sound people sitting outside the door laughing. So they had to move them down the stairway, down into the bottom, because every time we said pungent, we lost it. I finally, the only way I got through was to hold my breath when he said pungent. I just held my breath until the end of the scene. So if I look a little blue in that scene, that’s the reason. 

Angela I also notice you look down, like at your feet, like you were like, I cannot make eye contact with this man right now. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. 

Jenna Phyllis, is there a moment from our time on The Office, it could be anything, you know, onset or off set, if you could go back and relive a moment, if you could go sit in that moment again… What would you like to do? 

Phyllis Smith I would like to redo when we won the Emmy. When we all ran up on stage, we were told we shouldn’t go. We had to stay in the audience. We weren’t allowed to go up. It was a long shot that we were going to win. And when we did win, we all just, you know, ran to the stage. And I love the joy that everybody had, you know, because that was our Emmy, you know? That we won. So I love that moment for that reason. And then Angela, were you in the boat with me when we went back? 

Angela Yes, Phyllis. Yes.

Phyllis Smith Yeah. 

Angela But only- people only remember that it was you on the boat. Like Jenna’s memory was like, remember when Phyllis got lost at sea? And I was like, hello? I was on the boat, too, with Rainn and Brian. 

Phyllis Smith Yes, it was Brian, you, me, the wardrobe lady. 

Angela And Rainn. 

Phyllis Smith And Rainn. And that was a very memorable night. We were stranded out there in the middle of the ocean. 

Angela Pitch darkness just drifting out to sea. 

Phyllis Smith And then they wanted us to transfer boats. To stand up and actually go to the other boat was frightening because they were holding it with their foot. 

Angela Yes! This is the thing. I tried to explain this in our book that Jenna and I wrote, and I really don’t think I did it justice because these two rubber dinghies were being held together by just one man, like, straddling them, you know? 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. 

Angela We were trying to climb over. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. And we’re going. What? 

Angela Yeah. And it’s bobbing up and down and I’m like, how are we doing this? 

Phyllis Smith Once we got back to shore, it was seemed okay, but in the middle of it, it was pretty frightening. 

Angela Yeah. We also love to ask everyone what they took from set when we wrapped, because Jenna and I took a lot of things. 

Phyllis Smith Let’s see. I took the bird that Stanley carved for me when he was down in Florida. I have that. I wanted my Bushiest Beaver Award, but it seemed to have gotten lost somewhere. 

Angela What?! You need the Bushiest Beaver award in your home!

Phyllis Smith On the wall. Yeah, I need that. And I would have liked to have had the oven mitt, but I don’t remember getting that either. That I made for Michael. 

Angela Oh, yeah, that scene was hilarious. Talk about brilliant performance by you when Michael hates the muffin mitt so much. Oh, Phyllis. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah, we we had some great times, didn’t we, ladies? 

Angela We did. 

Jenna We really did. It’s been such a joy to go back and rewatch because it just opens the floodgates of memories. 

Phyllis Smith We did a lot of weird, funny, good, odd things in our nine years. 

Angela We did. You know, Phyllis, one of the things Jenna and I love is that we get the call sheets from Steve Burgess. And on the back of them are these cast and crew questions where they would pick a member of the cast and crew and ask them five questions. And so we would love to ask you the call sheet questions. I just have delighted in them. Are you ready? 

Phyllis Smith Okay. 

Angela All right. Here’s a good one. Number one, what was your first entertainment job? 

Phyllis Smith Oh, my first entertainment job was dancing. I got paid a dollar at the Carpenters Hall here in Saint Louis on Hampton Avenue. And I did a toe dance to a doll coming out of a doll box, and I got paid a dollar. 

Angela How old were you? 

Phyllis Smith I was on pointe, so I was about eight years old. 

Jenna Wow. 

Phyllis Smith That was my first my first job. And I still have the dollar. 

Angela Do you really? 

Jenna You do? 

Phyllis Smith I do. It’s. I folded it up and put it in the picture of that particular dance. Yeah. 

Jenna I would love to see that. You were dancing on pointe at eight years old, Phyllis?

Phyllis Smith Yeah, I started dancing at seven, and she put me on pointe. I was just about eight probably going into nine, you know, like closer to nine. But, I was about eight years old when she put me on pointe. Yeah. 

Jenna I mean, this is something that I think our listeners know about you, but we should remind you that you are a phenomenal dancer, that you danced for a long time. 

Phyllis Smith I did. I danced till I was, in my, I would say 32 or so professionally. And then it got to the point it was, you know, hard to compete with the eighteen year olds, but, yeah, I danced. I did it all. I did ballet. I was in two ballet companies. I was in a jazz company in San Diego, the jazz company. I toured it when dinner theater was around. I was in a vaudeville burlesque show where we toured about six, seven years. And then I was in another show in Long Beach, California, where we performed three shows Saturday, three shows Sunday. 

Angela Wow. 

Phyllis Smith But we got paid enough to for the whole week, so it was pretty lucrative, you know. It was okay. So yeah, my career started out as a dancer. Then when I got too old and injured, then I ended up going into casting. Can I tell you that story? 

Angela Yes, please. 

Phyllis Smith I was working at an aerospace defense company as the receptionist. A friend of mine called and said, Phyllis, they want a mousy woman. It was for a court show, and they wanted a mousy woman. So I had a half an hour to get over the hill in LA, you know, to go from the Valley to Hollywood and back. And I was in the bathroom and we wore nylons at those times, lady pantyhose. 

Jenna Oh, I know all about pantyhose, Phyllis. I wore them for nine years on The Office. 

Angela You guys both wore pantyhose on The Office. I did not. 

Phyllis Smith Yes. And when I went in there before to go to this audition, I not only tore a run in my nylon, my whole hand went through right below the knee. So there was this huge hole, but my dress was long enough that it covered it. So when I went into the audition, I said to the lady, excuse me, were you looking for a mousy woman or a tacky woman? And I lifted up my skirt and showed her my knee and she laughed. And then, in the course of that audition, I said, you know, I think I might be good in casting. About two weeks later, she called me, and that’s how I got into casting. And was in it for 19 years, working different levels, you know, working your way up. But it all stemmed from a weird audition for a mousy woman. 

Angela From a run in your pantyhose. Really bonded, y’all. 

Phyllis Smith And they said I wasn’t mousy enough. I said, okay. 

Jenna Phyllis, do you think you’ll perform at the MUNY again? How many shows have you done there? Three. 

Phyllis Smith No, I’ve just done two. I did Nunsense and, you know what I did, Jenna. I can’t remember.  

Jenna I can’t remember. I remembered Nunsense, but I can’t remember the other show. Oh, oh, oh, it’s on the tip of my tongue. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. 

Jenna Yes, yes, I know, why can’t we think of it? 

Phyllis Smith Olivia Newton-John and John Travolta, their- their- 

Angela Grease? 

Phyllis Smith Yes, yes. 

Jenna Yes that’s right. Yes.

Phyllis Smith Yes. 

Angela Do you guys want to share with everyone what the MUNY is for our listeners who might not know?

Phyllis Smith It’s a 12,000 seat outdoor theater here in Saint Louis. They do their own shows here in Saint Louis, and they also bring in shows from New York and various…  

Jenna Oh, like traveling shows? Yeah. You know, the MUNY is where I was really introduced to live musical theater. My mom would take me and, like you said, it’s 12,000 seats and we could only afford seats kind of way in the back. You would rent binoculars and so you would watch these performances through binoculars. But the sound in this outdoor amphitheater, it was just- and it would be like a warm summer night in Saint Louis. You wait for the sun to go down right? Wait for it to get dark. And then the show starts and my gosh, just some just joyous moments from my childhood going to the MUNY to see shows. So it’s really meaningful for like a Saint Louis person to then get to star in a show there I’m sure.

Phyllis Smith Absolutely. I was taken back when I first walked on that stage, from the stage side of it, and looking out to those 12,000 seats. It was really, you know, gave another lump in your throat because it’s pretty spectacular. Remember, Jenna, they would turn the, the big fans on during the intermission. Because like in August it could get pretty hot there, you know. Well now they’ve improved the fans. They can leave them on the whole time. Oooh!

Jenna Oh and they’re not too loud? 

Phyllis Smith They’re not loud at all. 

Jenna Oh wow. 

Phyllis Smith That’s a big plus. 

Jenna It sure is. It sure is.

Phyllis Smith It’s the little things that count, you know? 

Angela I love these Saint Louis gals. 

Jenna Question number two. Do you play a musical instrument? 

Phyllis Smith I played a musical instrument. I played a clarinet. I was in the marching band and also the orchestra in high school. 

Jenna Wow. 

Phyllis Smith And I was second chair. Wasn’t the first chair but I played second chair. 

Angela That’s pretty dang good, Phillis. Second chair. 

Phyllis Smith Well, I don’t know how good I was, but I started out with the flute and I couldn’t get a sound out of it, so I said, please take me off the flute. I cannot do this. And so he gave me a clarinet and I went, okay, I’ll try. So. You guys play instruments? 

Angela Well, when I moved to Archer City, Texas, the school, you know, they really needed everyone to participate in the band or we wouldn’t have had one because my school was so small. We were class size 2A. So I graduated with like 34 people. So they needed everyone in the band. So football players on the football team, cheerleaders, they marched in the marching band in their uniforms. Like they, you know, everyone participated. So they pretty much told me, you’re going to be in band. And I was like, guys, I don’t play an instrument like at all. And they were like, you know what? We really need some trombone players. I was like, what? I am four feet eight. Like. And they gave me a trombone and I played it with my friend Shannon. It was me and Shannon and this kid named Bill. There was three of us. And I was second chair, but but only because there were three of us. 

Phyllis Smith I want to see that. 

Angela Oh my gosh, Phyllis, I couldn’t even reach seventh position on the trombone. I just had to let it slide out because I couldn’t reach it. 

Phyllis Smith That’s funny. What about you, Jenna? 

Jenna Growing up, my mom had us play piano. But this was really because I think my mom really regretted in her life that she didn’t play a musical instrument, and she wanted to play piano. So we got a piano, and she hired a teacher, and she took lessons, I took lessons, and my sister took lessons. And, I mean, I don’t play the piano. 

Angela It didn’t stick. 

Jenna I mean. I think because I wasn’t really interested in playing the piano, but then as an adult, I did a movie, Walk Hard, and I was gifted at the beginning of the movie a really nice acoustic guitar. And I got very interested in playing, and I was really picking it up. I got really into it, you know, so much so that Angela has a funny story. When we traveled to New York together, I took the guitar with me. I carried it on the plane. 

Angela Like a backpack. We went through the airport with this thing. It was so cumbersome. Like when we went to the bathroom, I’d have to hold her backpack. 

Jenna My guitar. 

Angela Your guitar backpack. You were very committed to it. 

Jenna I really believed that I was going to become a, like a later in life guitar player. But then, Phyllis, I don’t know if you remember when I fell down the stairs at the- 

Phyllis Smith I remember. 

Jenna At the upfronts. Well, not only did I fracture my back in four places, but I hurt my elbow. It landed on the stairs and I like, bruised my elbow bone. And as a result I couldn’t practice the guitar anymore. It was really painful. And by the time I healed, I had kind of… 

Angela You’d let it go. 

Jenna I had let it go. I can it was like one of those things where it was like, well, I mean, I guess I didn’t love the guitar so much that I wanted to, you know… play through the pain, but I, I yeah, those are my stories. I, I fiddled with piano and I fiddled with guitar, but ultimately I never really played an instrument. 

Angela Well guess what, I’m not playing the trombone anymore. 

Phyllis Smith And I’m not playing clarinet. 

Angela Okay. Next question. What’s a place that you’ve been to that you absolutely loved? 

Phyllis Smith Oh, well, I haven’t been to that many places, but I did go to Cannes. 

Angela Ooh. In France? 

Phyllis Smith And it was quite spectacular. It was for Inside Out one, for the film festival there. And it was just incredibly beautiful. We did an interview out on a dock. It’s hard to be interviewed when you’re so mesmerized by the beautiful ships. And the yachts were unbelievable of the billionaires. 

Angela Oh, wow. 

Phyllis Smith There it was. It was incredible. The people would say, I’d say, you sure that’s not a cruise ship? They go, no, that’s just a little yacht that belongs to somebody. 

Angela Are they just so big? I don’t think I’ve. I’ve never seen a yacht up close. 

Phyllis Smith They’re incredibly big. Huge. I mean, they’re like, I don’t know how many stories. 

Angela Wow. 

Phyllis Smith It’s not anything that we see here in the United States. Truly it isn’t. You know. 

Jenna Yeah. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. But that that made a big impression on me. The Cannes did. Cannes, France. Yeah. Also, their butter and their fruit in France was amazing. 

Angela The butter. 

Phyllis Smith Their strawberries actually tastes like strawberries. It’s the little things in life you know?

Angela Yeah. I love butter with the chunky salt in it. I had that in France and I thought, this has changed my life. 

Jenna No it’s true. You think of the French with their baguettes and their bread. But I think their secret is the butter. 

Phyllis Smith It actually tastes so creamy. It has so much cream in it. It’s, oof, I’m getting hungry. 

Angela Don’t don’t get me started on butter. Okay. Next question. What do you like to do on the weekends? 

Phyllis Smith Oh, well, it depends on where I am. You know, where I’m located and what I’m doing. Like, when I was working, I liked to stay home, you know, when we were working every, you know, Monday through Friday, I would like to stay at my house and enjoy the back yard and everything. 

Angela Oh, I love spending time in the backyard. Last question. What is your favorite midnight snack? 

Phyllis Smith Oh, gosh, I like nachos and a Pepsi. I like to put cheddar cheese on nachos and a Pepsi. I love that. 

Jenna I love it. 

Angela Fantastic. 

Jenna Well, Phyllis, before you go, can we just ask you a little bit again about Inside Out 2 and what can we expect from the story this time? 

Phyllis Smith Well, yeah. As we know, our girl is going through puberty. She’s starting puberty. So her emotions have expanded, let’s say. 

Angela Oh, yeah. 

Phyllis Smith I think her original emotions are all taken back by all the other ones that surface. And, I’m really looking forward to it because, as I said, I did a lot of my recordings singularly here. I’m anxious to see how we all fit together in her mind because there are, golly, I think there are about 4 or 5 new emotions joining the crowd. 

Angela Oh, I can’t wait. 

Phyllis Smith So, we have Anxiety and Embarrassment, who I have a kinship to. You know, Sadness and Embarrassment seem to play along the same lines, you know. And Envy, Anxiety and another odd little character. So we shall see how they all play together. I know all Sadness wants to do is to keep Riley safe in all of this turmoil. And so she goes on a mission far away from the other emotions to try and help this situation. I don’t want to give too much away. 

Jenna Sure. Yeah. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah, I think it’s going to be really interesting and it’s going to help people. I don’t know, like you were saying, your children enjoyed watching the movie multiple times. I know through the years, people have come up to me and said, you know, I really enjoyed the movie. It helped my daughter get through this period of her life, or she was going through a great deal of sadness and she found out that it’s okay to be sad. 

Angela Yeah. 

Phyllis Smith A lot of teachers tell me that they have programs in schools now where they actually use the five emotions. So now they’re going to have to get new programs and add some other emotions to it. So it comes out June the 14th I believe. So.. 

Angela I can’t wait. 

Phyllis Smith I think it’s going to be another good one. 

Angela As a mother of three teenagers, I can’t wait because I it just makes it all so relatable. 

Phyllis Smith I was going to say you’re going to feel at home with it probably. 

Jenna Well, the first movie was also just so fun and funny, but also so layered with this, just the naming of the emotions and seeing them work together and that like, you don’t have to get rid of any emotion, that they can all exist and that they’re all there to serve you. I just think that’s what’s so beautiful about the movie. 

Phyllis Smith Right. 

Jenna And I know that part two will have those similar things. So I’m excited. 

Angela Jenna and I will be watching it. 

Jenna We will. 

Angela Definitely many times with our kids. These movies are a true gift, and I think they open up such dialog about emotions, like Jenna was saying. And, we’re so happy to see you, Phyllis, and to have you here. 

Jenna Yes. 

Phyllis Smith I hope I did okay for you guys, I hope. 

Jenna Yes!

Angela You crushed it, Phyllis!

Jenna You crushed it. Is there anything that you would want to share that we didn’t get to cover? 

Phyllis Smith No, I think we covered a lot. I mean, there were other- when we got talking about The Office, I was thinking, not because they were your episodes, but I loved- I truly loved both your weddings. They all had their own just hilarious and heartfelt moments in each of them, you know? 

Jenna Well, I loved your wedding. 

Angela We loved your wedding, and we loved the storyline that Phyllis was ripping off Pam’s wedding plans to Roy. 

Phyllis Smith All her colors, her food, everything. 

Angela And then, Phyllis, you know, I’ve looked back, you know, at the photos of all of us in our wedding dresses. And Angela Martin really just wears basically the same dress as Phyllis. Almost. 

Jenna It’s true. 

Phyllis Smith What? 

Angela Yeah. Yeah. 

Jenna Very similar. 

Angela We’ll do- I think it would be great to do a side by side of each of our characters’ wedding dresses. They were the three big weddings on the show. 

Jenna That’s true. 

Phyllis Smith Because we actually didn’t see Michael and Holly’s wedding at all. 

Angela Yeah we didn’t. 

Phyllis Smith But like when Jim cuts his tie off, there’s some things like, you know, like that. I do you remember when Michael was dragging the wheelchair down the aisle? That was you had to hear that clanging and banging coming down the aisle. 

Angela I also loved the scene where he tried to get in the wedding photos. 

Phyllis Smith Oh, yeah. 

Angela Oh, my gosh. There’s more of it in deleted scenes on the DVDs. But like, I cannot believe that Michael was trying to get in your wedding photo. Like in Phyllis’s wedding photos. 

Phyllis Smith Wow. Yeah. You know, one of the things that Steve said, you know, back where we would get our hair and makeup done on stage there… Were you around the day he said, you know, guys, I think this is going to be the best show we ever do. He said something to that effect. It was like around the the first season, you know, and, I think he was right. 

Angela Yeah, I do too. 

Phyllis Smith Yeah. Pretty darn great. 

Jenna Yeah. Phyllis, we love you. It’s so fun to see you. 

Angela We love you so much. 

Phyllis Smith I love you both so much. And I thank you for talking to me. 

Angela Oh, my gosh, thank you. 

Jenna Well, I’m sorry, but if that interview didn’t warm your heart, I don’t know what to say. 

Angela I just love her so much. 

Jenna I think that would even make the Grinch’s heart grow three sizes. Just listening to that interview with Phyllis. 

Angela Phyllis, you’re the best. Thank you so much for being on Office Ladies. 

Jenna And thank you all for listening. And don’t forget to catch Phyllis and Inside Out 2 in theaters now. 

Angela And we will be back next week with Moving On Part One. See you then! 

Jenna See you then! Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. 

Angela Office Ladies is produced by Earwolf, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. 

Jenna Our senior producer is Cassi Jerkins. Our audio engineer is Jordan Duffy, and our associate producer is Aynsley Bubbico. 

Angela Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.