September 1, 2020
EP. 43 — Ben Franklin
This week we’re breaking down Ben Franklin. We start things off with some facts about the real Benjamin Franklin, and we get some audio memories from the incredible Andy Daly (Review, VEEP) who played the Ben Franklin impersonator in this episode. Then, Angela debunks Prima Nocta, Jenna answers everyones burning questions about Pam’s hair color, and we chat about the ‘guy shower’ down in the warehouse. Finally, we get a ‘proof of cold’ fan catch, Jenna does a deep dive on Elizabeth’s no secrets quote to Michael, and we end with some more memories from Andy Daly.
43 — Ben Franklin
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:04] I’m Jenna Fischer.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:05] I’m Angela Kinsey.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:06] We were on “The Office” together.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:07] And we’re best friends.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:08] And now we’re doing the ultimate “Office” rewatch podcast just for you.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:12] Each week we will break down an episode of “The Office” and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:19] We’re the “Office Ladies”. Angela, I am so excited.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:26] I’m so excited.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:28] This is one of my favorite episodes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:31] I watched it again this morning. I know you did do too. And just for joy, just to start my day off with a laugh.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:39] I have been giddy. Guys, it is Season 3, Episode 14. “Ben Franklin”. It’s so good. Just when I say it. It was written by Mindy Kaling and directed by Randall Einhorn. Here’s a summary. Michael wants to celebrate Phyllis’ upcoming wedding by organizing two parties, one for the ladies and one for the guys. He asks Jim to hire a stripper for the ladies. And Dwight is going to hire one for the guys. So Dwight hires Elizabeth, who is going to end up giving Michael advice on his love life. Jim hires historical speaker Ben Franklin. Also in this episode, Karen confronts Pam about her past with Jim.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:01:31] Ah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:01:31] Super awkward.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:01:31] If you want a few minutes of awkward.
JENNA FISCHER [00:01:33] Awkward in the kitchen.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:01:35] Awkward in the kitchen.
JENNA FISCHER [00:01:36] It’s a new song.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:01:38] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:01:39] All right, guys. Fast Fact Number One, Ben Franklin. You might know him as the guy on the one hundred dollar bill or the inventor of the lightning rod or the bifocal lenses. Or maybe you know that he is the only founding father to sign all four documents credited with creating the United States of America. That includes the Declaration of Independence, the Treaty of Paris and the Constitution. But here are some other interesting facts about Benjamin Franklin.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:02:11] What?
JENNA FISCHER [00:02:12] He had 16 siblings.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:02:14] His poor mother. His mother was pregnant her whole life.
JENNA FISCHER [00:02:18] Her whole life, she was pregnant.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:02:20] My grandfather was one of eleven. He was like the third to last born. And his mom named him Plenty.
JENNA FISCHER [00:02:28] Oh no.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:02:28] And in my family, we’ve always been like, what? Did that mean she was just like, I need a break. Hey, that’s plenty. Take a pause. They could have named him Enough or Finished.
JENNA FISCHER [00:02:39] Stay Off Me.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:02:40] Yeah. Get Away. This is my kid, Get Away.
JENNA FISCHER [00:02:43] Well, Ben Franklin’s father had two wives.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:02:47] Oh, good.
JENNA FISCHER [00:02:48] He had seven children with his first wife, and then he had 10 children with his second wife. Ben Franklin was the 15th child in that birth order.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:03:00] That’s still, that’s a lot of snacks. Oh, my God.
JENNA FISCHER [00:03:04] I mean you’re making a lot of, can I have some waters?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:03:08] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:03:09] Ben Franklin only had two years of a formal education.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:03:12] Wow.
JENNA FISCHER [00:03:12] He was a vegetarian.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:03:15] Oh.
JENNA FISCHER [00:03:15] Like your character of Angela Martin. This might explain why you were so taken with him in this episode.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:03:20] Oh. Well, maybe.
JENNA FISCHER [00:03:21] Mmhmm. He started the first volunteer fire station in Philadelphia and he invented an instrument called the Glass Armonica.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:03:31] That’s not real.
JENNA FISCHER [00:03:33] It’s real. It was used by both Mozart and Beethoven. Here’s what it is. It is basically, it is a series of glass orbs.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:03:42] OK.
JENNA FISCHER [00:03:42] That you play by spinning them and then getting your finger wet and putting your finger on the orb.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:03:50] Oh, we’ve seen this. This is like a talent shows. Like seriously, at junior high talent show, there’s like, like someone that sets up a table of glasses and then is like me, me, me, me, me, me.
JENNA FISCHER [00:04:01] Yeah. Ben Franklin invented that. OK. And here’s the thing. He would later write about this invention. I loved this, quote, “Of all of my inventions, the Glass Armonica has given me the greatest personal satisfaction”. More than the bifocals.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:04:17] Why do I feel like if you went over to his house, he was always busting out his glass harmonica and you’re just like, hey, I just want a. And he’s like, me, me, me, me, and you’re like, OK, Ben. We get it. We get it.
JENNA FISCHER [00:04:29] Exactly. So Ben Franklin was a prolific inventor, you know, the kite in the air and all the yada, yada, yada. Then he died of a disease that could have been treated by antibiotics today.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:04:41] What did he die from?
JENNA FISCHER [00:04:42] Well, some people think he died from complications of syphilis, but he died from a disease that I hadn’t heard of. That sounded like sort of similar to pneumonia.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:04:52] Oh, OK.
JENNA FISCHER [00:04:54] Yeah, but it’s something treatable with antibiotics likely today.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:04:58] How old was he?
JENNA FISCHER [00:05:00] I don’t know, Angela. I’m sorry. What was the name of the disease? How old was he?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:05:05] OK. OK. OK. What’s Fast Fact Number Two?
JENNA FISCHER [00:05:08] Fast Fact Number Two is Andy Daly. The outstanding comedic actor who played Ben Franklin in this episode.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:05:17] Yes. Are you going to tell them what we got?
JENNA FISCHER [00:05:19] We got some audio clips.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:05:21] And they’re so good. He is so funny. Jenna and I love these, Andy. Thank you for sending them in.
JENNA FISCHER [00:05:27] Here’s the thing. You might know Andy Daly from “Veep”, “Reno 911”, “Modern Family”, “Comedy Bang Bang”, “Eastbound and Down”. He’s studied and performed improv with the Upright Citizens Brigade. We have a very interesting little thing in common. Andy and I.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:05:44] What?
JENNA FISCHER [00:05:45] Both of our first television credits were for “Spin City”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:05:49] Wait, is “Spin City” with Charlie Sheen?
JENNA FISCHER [00:05:52] Well, I did the Charlie Sheen one, but he did the Michael J. Fox one.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:05:55] Oh, right. There were two.
JENNA FISCHER [00:05:57] Yeah. Well, guys, we asked Andy how he got his role in “The Office” and he said he got it the old fashioned way. He auditioned for Allison Jones, our casting director, but he had a funny story about his audition and first meeting Allison. Here’s what he had to say.
ANDY DALY [00:06:14] Hello, this is Andy Daly. A-ing your Qs about Ben Franklin. Here’s my funny story about Allison Jones when the UCB Theater opened in Los Angeles. We were doing ASSSSCAT every Saturday and Sunday night. That’s a fully improvised long form show, long form improv show. And I was in it every Saturday and Sunday and we acquired a superfan, this woman who was, just seemed to be at almost every show. And we got to talking to her a little bit during the show and a little bit after the show. And she just seemed like such a sweet, nice lady who was just a real, like, improv super fan. And then I got an audition for this role of Benjamin Franklin in “The Office”. And I went to the audition and the casting director was that lady. So I’ve always said that that speaks so well of Allison Jones that she is like somebody who goes out to shows and is a comedy fan. And that’s why she is the greatest casting director, probably in town for comedy. She, she casts all your favorite comedies, and that’s why. OK. But yes, I auditioned. And by the way, when I got that audition for Ben Franklin, I thought, well, I’m going to go because why not? I got nothing better to do. But they’ll never hire me to play Ben Franklin because I was in my mid thirties and in the good shape of my life. I mean, I’m like, I got a swimmer’s body, no I don’t. But I figured they’re going to hire somebody, some middle aged, paunchy, bald dude. Right? Wouldn’t you think? But I, I was like, well, I’ll go anyway and I’ll do my best. And so, and that has happened to me with so many of the roles that I’ve gotten. I have gone just for the hell of it, even thinking they’ll never hire me for this. I’m all wrong for it. And I’m so glad that I was wrong. It was, it was a fun audition and I was surprised to get the part. Surprised, but delighted.
JENNA FISCHER [00:08:08] There you go.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:08:09] I love that Allison Jones, let’s just go into all of those shows. I just love it.
JENNA FISCHER [00:08:13] I think she still does. And all of you aspiring actors out there go to every audition. You don’t know what they’re looking for.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:08:20] Why not you? That’s what I always say.
JENNA FISCHER [00:08:22] Yeah. Why not you? Don’t psych yourself out of a part.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:08:26] Yeah, well, I love that. What’s your Fast Fact Number Three?
JENNA FISCHER [00:08:30] Well, before we move on to Fast Fact Number Three, we have a fan question for Morgan McCloud. “I need to know more about Elizabeth, the stripper. She is amazing. And I love how she reprises her role in a few more episodes. How did she get cast for this role”? Well, guys, her name is Jackie Debatin. She is so funny.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:08:50] She’s so funny. She’s so perfect. Oh, my God.
JENNA FISCHER [00:08:54] Well, we tried to get in touch with her.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:08:56] We did.
JENNA FISCHER [00:08:57] Because we really wanted Jackie to send an audio clips too. But Jackie, I don’t think you check your Instagram very often because the next time you go on there, you’re gonna have a sweet DM from Miss Angela Kinsey. Just waiting for you.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:09:10] Well, listen, Jackie, someday you’re gonna see that DM from me and you have two more episodes and we would love to talk to you. So hit us up.
JENNA FISCHER [00:09:20] Yes. Jackie comes back for “Fun Run” and the finale. I reached out to Allison Jones about Jackie and she told me that Jackie auditioned for the role in Los Angeles, was fantastic, was kind of known in the comedy circles here. She has since moved to New York and still works a bunch there. So that’s what she’s up to. If you’re friends with Jackie Debatin and you hear this, tell her to check her DMs.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:09:45] Yeah, tell her to hit me up. All right. Now, Fast Fact Number Three.
JENNA FISCHER [00:09:49] Fast Fact Number Three is that we shot this episode in January and it was our first episode back after taking a very long holiday break hiatus. And over that break, Angela, do you remember? We got nominated for our first Screen Actors Guild Award?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:10:09] I remember we were so excited. Guys, here’s the thing about the Screen Actors Guild Awards. Its, its actors nominating other actors for their work, their body of work. And if you win as a cast, everyone gets an award. That is not the case with the Emmys. The Emmys, only producers, get the award. So like even when we won as a cast, we didn’t get one. And this was really just like this great, amazing thing for us as a cast to be able to be celebrated like that.
JENNA FISCHER [00:10:37] Yes. And I guess we were all in a very good mood because when we asked Andy Daly if he had any favorite memories from his time on the show, this is what he mentioned.
ANDY DALY [00:10:49] It would be hard to say that I have one specific favorite memory. But I will tell you that the week that I was there, something was going on, like the entire cast was maybe going to the SAG Awards or something like that. And everybody was just really excited and in a good mood. And there was a lot of talk of dresses and tuxedos and hair and makeup getting done for some big event. And I was just really delighted by what a positive, happy mood everybody seemed to be in and what fun everybody, in the regular cast, seemed to be having every day. Getting along very well with each other. You know, you, you end up on sets where there’s different kinds of attitudes towards the work and the schedule and the coworkers. But this was one where everybody seemed so happy and to, to really realize how lucky they were to be on such a great, well-written show, that it was so much fun to do. So. Just in general, the spirit and the incredible welcoming. Welcoming-ness? I know that’s not a word, but everybody was just so, so welcoming and happy. It was a very lovely week, that’s all.
JENNA FISCHER [00:12:07] I love that.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:12:08] Lady, I wrote about this in my journal. The Screen Actors Guild came by our set to present us with our official nomination certificates for best ensemble for comedy. E! stopped by with their cameras and interviewed a few of us as well. When Phyllis looked at her certificate, she began to tear up. And then I began to tear up watching her. The SAG Awards are January 28. I really hope we win.
JENNA FISCHER [00:12:35] And we did!
ANGELA KINSEY [00:12:38] And we did!
JENNA FISCHER [00:12:38] We won. It was such an amazing thing.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:12:40] It was just, just magical. And just such a celebration for our cast.
JENNA FISCHER [00:12:46] Oh, I remember when the certificate guy came too. It felt super official, I didn’t know they did that.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:12:53] I didn’t know they did it either. And I think we were just sort of all taken by surprise and then just watching Phyllis hold that in her hands and watch the, watching the emotion go over her face. I remember it. It was, it was really just such a tender moment to share.
JENNA FISCHER [00:13:10] I love that you wrote about it and I love that you told us. And I think that makes it a good place that we can take a break.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:13:17] All right, lady, we’ll come back and break down this episode.
JENNA FISCHER [00:13:20] Love it.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:13:24] All right, so now we’re in the episode, it’s the cold open. Michael has decided he wants to make a video for his future son. Dwight is filming him. Here is what happened. Michael had a near-death experience. I guess he was cleaning some gunk off the wall sockets of his condo. But he was using a fork.
JENNA FISCHER [00:13:44] Yeah, he was using a metal fork.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:13:45] Michael. Michael. Anyway, this led him to have an “epiphery”. Life is short, people.
JENNA FISCHER [00:13:53] Wait. We had a fan question from Keysha Heath, who wants to know “Was ‘I had an epiphery’ in the script?” Yes. It was. Steve’s delivery is flawless.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:04] Brilliant.
JENNA FISCHER [00:14:05] Yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:06] Well, Jenna, I wrote a few things, just overarching things about this whole episode. Here are three of them. Ready?
JENNA FISCHER [00:14:12] All right.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:12] Jenna was sick this week.
JENNA FISCHER [00:14:14] I was. You can totally hear it.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:16] Yeah. Jenna had a cold. Where’s Oscar?
JENNA FISCHER [00:14:20] Yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:21] Yes. And then number three, the season of the fluffy blouse.
JENNA FISCHER [00:14:28] Is this your third fluffy blouse?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:30] It’s my third fluffy blouse. We’ll get to it. I have a, I have a cat-, I have a background catch. We’ll have to talk about.
JENNA FISCHER [00:14:36] All right.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:37] So now we’re in the episode.
JENNA FISCHER [00:14:40] Yes. And Michael is addressing the group because it is six days before Phyllis’ wedding to Bob Van Ness. He wants everyone to get their hair did. He tells Karen maybe she should consider investing in a dress or a skirt. Michael says, guys, this might be Phyllis’ only wedding and he wants to make sure everybody looks great. So he is instituting prima nocta. Which Jim then explains in his talking head, is something from the movie “Braveheart”, where the king is allowed to deflower every new bride on her wedding night.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:15:21] So Jenna, here’s the thing, prima nocta was a myth. There’s actually no historical evidence that this ever happened. According to the Internet, this was just something that was literary. And I did a deep dive on Reddit, guys and IDJET, that’s the handle, they wrote this, “Prima noctis did not exist as any feudal right or custom. There are a handful of mentions of it and medieval sources, but they’re, they’re all literary, not historical. It’s a myth that developed after the Middle Ages. In 19th century, French historians interested in creating a negative portrayal of the Dark Ages for their own political reasons, created a custom out of it and gave it a Latin name, thus making it real. The actual history of the development of the idea of prima noctis is way more fascinating the than the idea itself, because it tells us a lot about how historians bring biases to their sources and opinions”. I found that fascinating.
JENNA FISCHER [00:16:25] Who writes the history writes the history. Yes. This is why women and people of color are missing from the history books. It’s not that we weren’t contributing, y’all. It’s that we didn’t get to write it down.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:16:38] Right.
JENNA FISCHER [00:16:39] Someone else wrote it down. Thank you so much. Leaving my soapbox.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:16:44] OK.
JENNA FISCHER [00:16:45] I enjoyed my time there.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:16:46] Yes. IDJET goes on to say, “There is a really astonishing investigation by Boureau, it’s by Alain Boureau. It’s called the ‘Lord’s First Night: The Myth of-‘, oh Jenna, I’m going to butcher this French. ‘Droit de Cuissage’”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:17:02] “Droit de Cuissage”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:17:03] And you know what that means?
JENNA FISCHER [00:17:05] Droit means, right-. Well, it means right of something.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:17:09] Ready?
JENNA FISCHER [00:17:10] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:17:10] It means the “right of the thigh”. Right of the thigh, like the woman’s thigh. And then-. Yes. So it started out in France, this myth. They wanted to make medieval times look bad. They wanted their sort of history, their religion, their story to seem superior. So they were trying to make medieval England and Scotland seem more barbaric so that the French would seem more evolved, according to this article. So they first called it-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:17:43] First they called it right of the thigh.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:17:45] Then they changed it to right of the Lord. And then it got translated into Latin as Prima Noctis. Prima nocta. So there you go, guys, there is no history to support that this ever happened. It was mentioned in literature and it was a myth. But it was part of the French rewriting history.
JENNA FISCHER [00:18:09] Guys, you cannot say that you did not learn things from listening to this podcast today. You can’t do it. No. And you know what? There is more to come. I’ve got a deep dive on a girl band coming up.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:18:24] Oh.
JENNA FISCHER [00:18:24] You’ll find out why.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:18:25] Lady, I have a deep dive on a sweater dimple. So you should just wait.
JENNA FISCHER [00:18:32] Well, moving on. Let’s go into the conference room. The Party Planning Committee is setting up for Phyllis’ lunch and shower. And Michael comes in to brag that he is also having a party in the warehouse. It’s not gay, but it is an afternoon shower with guys.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:18:51] Mmhmm. Mmhmm. Every time he walks into the room, Steve would say something different to us. There are fantastic bloopers from this because we kept laughing.
JENNA FISCHER [00:18:59] I remember it.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:19:00] We were laughing so hard, but they, they picked “What’s up my spinsters”? But there is, there is a lot, a lot of great outtakes from this scene.
JENNA FISCHER [00:19:14] Well, then we find out that there is trouble between Karen and Jim.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:19:18] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:19:19] They’ve been having a lot of late night talks. A lot.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:19:22] Long, long, long, late night talks.
JENNA FISCHER [00:19:27] Angela, this took me back.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:19:28] It took me back. Me too. When Karen was like-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:19:33] We need to have a talk. We need to talk.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:19:36] Oh. Both of their talking heads are so well written. And I feel like Mindy was probably writing a little bit of her life at this time.
JENNA FISCHER [00:19:47] But also, when Karen is compelled to get up and go over and just give Jim a hug, just like that reassuring hug, I was like, oh, gosh.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:19:56] Yeah. She’s like, we’re OK. We’re good.
JENNA FISCHER [00:19:58] Yeah. Pam notices.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:20:00] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:20:01] She’s like, there’s something weird with Jim and Karen. Pam says she’s gotten really good at reading the back of his neck.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:20:07] Mmhmm.
JENNA FISCHER [00:20:08] So Pam is aware there might be a little trouble there.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:20:12] Yeah. Yeah. And then, guys, Todd Packer makes an appearance. He comes in and is just in rare form.
JENNA FISCHER [00:20:22] Yeah. He finds out that Jim and Karen are dating. He can’t believe it. And then he sees Michael and they do this whole weird bit that involves him like fake kicking Michael in the face.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:20:36] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:20:36] It was amazing. At 5 minutes, 13 seconds, I have a sneeze catch.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:20:42] Did you sneeze?
JENNA FISCHER [00:20:43] I sneeze in the background of the scene. It was also noticed by Chris Robinson and Ainya Snethersol.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:20:50] Jenna, I saw a montage of you sneezing on set on YouTube. Have you seen it?
JENNA FISCHER [00:20:56] Yeah, I used to sneeze so much.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:20:58] You had really bad allergies. I feel like there was something on the set that you were allergic to.
JENNA FISCHER [00:21:04] Well, every time they would move the lights above my desk, all of that like particles from the ceiling would fall down on my desk. And so it was really dusty. And then they started doing this wonderful thing where they would come, like Dale, who work-, who, like was one of our grips would come over and he would like feather duster my desk off for me because of this sneezing problem, which was causing problems for sound and camera. So but yes, I think this was before we started dusting my desk because the early seasons, I sneeze a lot.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:21:41] Yeah. You do. You do. Here.
JENNA FISCHER [00:21:41] A lot.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:21:42] So now we’re in Michael’s office and Michael is telling Todd about the afternoon bachelor party and Todd Packer is so bummed. He has a day of sales calls. He’s so ticked, he starts breaking pencils. He’s like, I can’t come.
JENNA FISCHER [00:21:57] Oh, we have a fan catch about that, Angela.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:21:59] What?
JENNA FISCHER [00:21:59] Alina B said, “When Todd Packer is talking to Michael, Todd breaks a pencil, but as the conversation goes back and forth between the two of them, you can see that the blue mug that holds the pencils goes from having pencils in it to no pencils in it”. And it’s true. At the top of the scene, he breaks a pencil. But then at 6 minutes, 4 seconds, the pencils are back in the cup. So clearly, Dave Koechner did that pencil bit, probably one of many times, and they loved it. But then, you know, they used other takes for the rest of the scene. I thought that was such a good catch. Good job, Alina.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:22:37] That is a great catch. Well, Todd asked Michael, you know, well, “Did you get a stripper”? And Michael’s like, “What? No, no”. And then he’s like, you don’t know anything about planning a bachelor party, it’s going to suck. You’ve got to have a stripper. Have you ever been to one? And Michael’s like, yes. Well, no, not really. Not in person. Never. You know what I mean? Like, Michael is really just so innocent in so many ways.
JENNA FISCHER [00:23:00] Well, so Todd convinces him that he needs to hire a stripper for the women because then that means he can hire a stripper for the men. And Michael is like, his mind is blown. He’s like, oh, my gosh, yes. I want to say the little 45 minute party that Michael had planned, minus the stripper. Sounded really lovely.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:23:21] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:23:21] It actually sounded like fun. Steak and cards.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:23:25] Cards. Yeah. Steak and cards.
JENNA FISCHER [00:23:26] What a fun-. What a fun like break in your work day.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:23:30] Yeah. And then Todd had to make it weird.
JENNA FISCHER [00:23:34] Well, that’s what Todd does.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:23:35] That’s what Todd does.
JENNA FISCHER [00:23:37] So Michael walks into the office, he announces that coed naked strippers will be coming to the office. Oh, Angela. This exchange between you and Meredith, it makes me laugh out loud.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:23:48] Kate and I have reenacted this a few times, for fans.
JENNA FISCHER [00:23:53] Angela speaks up. And what do you say, Angela?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:23:56] I say something like. “Under no circumstance should a man take off his clothes at the office”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:24:01] And then Meredith is like “Shut up, Angela”!
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:05] I know.
JENNA FISCHER [00:24:06] It comes out of nowhere.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:10] It was so crazy. It was like, release the Kraken. And it’s like Meredith, ahhhh, you know?
JENNA FISCHER [00:24:15] It’s so loud and abrasive and just-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:19] Angry.
JENNA FISCHER [00:24:21] Is it her? It’s like one of her only lines in this whole episode.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:24] Well, that and then she, of course, is like, wait. This is the stripper?
JENNA FISCHER [00:24:28] Yes, exactly.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:29] But here is my, here. Here is my background catch. At 6 minutes. 38 seconds. Right as Meredith yells, “Shut up, Angela”, I whip my head over my shoulder. I’m standing at the copier. This is a great photo moment of my whole outfit with the fluffy collar. But guys, I want you to know. 6 minutes, 38 seconds. You can see the sweater bump.
JENNA FISCHER [00:24:57] A sweater bump, what’s a sweater bump?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:59] Sweater bump.
JENNA FISCHER [00:25:00] What is that?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:25:01] This moment really brought me back, Jenna, because wardrobe had hung my sweater on a hanger and when I went to put that sweater on over my fluffy blouse that morning, I had these two weird pointy, outy things over my shoulders where the hanger was, on my sweater.
JENNA FISCHER [00:25:16] Right.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:25:17] And I walked on set and wardrobe was like, oh, no. Oh, no. And they were trying to like, it would look so weird. They were trying to get them out. We couldn’t get them out. And so I was trying to figure out how to tell you this story. And I looked up sweater bump on shoulder thingy. What is this called? Jenna.
JENNA FISCHER [00:25:36] It has a name?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:25:37] It has several, depending on where you live. These are called hanger bumps, sweater bumps, sweater shoulder nipples, sweater dimple and-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:25:47] Oh.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:25:47] I went to SheFinds.com and they’re like, listen, you need to fold your sweaters. But if you have to hang your sweater, you need to fold it in half and draped over the bottom of the hanger. But guess what? There are now special hangers for sweaters that you might have to hang. That won’t give you shoulder bumps and “Luxury Living Bumps Begone, Extra Long Hanger” is made a flexible foam. Guys, if you have a sweater to hang up, and you don’t want to look weird at work with your, I don’t know, your sweater bumps, your hanger bumps, your sweater dimple. It’s an option.
JENNA FISCHER [00:26:25] All I can think during all of this is why you have not consistently referred to them as shoulder nipples. Because that was my favorite one.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:26:32] No. Its sweater shoulder nipples. Sweater, you have to say the word “sweater”. Sweater shoulder nipples.
JENNA FISCHER [00:26:39] Sweater shoulder nipples.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:26:40] Jenna, I took a picture of it to show you. It is hilarious. It brought me back. I was laughing so hard because I remember walking on set and then being like, oh no. What happened? Look, I can’t wait to show you.
JENNA FISCHER [00:26:54] Oh no!
ANGELA KINSEY [00:26:54] My shoulder has a nipple.
JENNA FISCHER [00:26:56] It is, you guys. I am so sad you can’t see the picture that Angela just showed us. But we will put it on OfficeLadiesPod Instagram.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:27:06] I promise I will put it on-. I promise, Jenna, we will put it on OfficeLadiesPod. I remember I was texting Jenna when we were working on this and I was like, I have a deep dive you are not going to see you coming. And that was it, Jenna. You’re welcome.
JENNA FISCHER [00:27:19] I absolutely loved it.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:27:20] Well, now, I mean, oh, God. This next scene is so awkward.
JENNA FISCHER [00:27:26] I know.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:27:26] It’s so awkward. At 6 minutes, 50 seconds, Pam and Jim are in the break room. And is Pam like trying to bond, but she’s flirting, but she doesn’t know what to say? It is so cringey.
JENNA FISCHER [00:27:41] I think she’s fishing. I think she’s just wants to know what’s up. She knows. She knows something’s going on. I don’t think this is the same as when she helped Jim with the whole, like, apartment issue. Remember when she was like, listen, I don’t think it’s a big deal if she lives two blocks away. I think you’re, you’re overreacting. I felt like in that moment she was like, you know what? Let’s move this into a friendship lane and I’m gonna be a friend and give you friend advice. This just felt like she was fishing for the gossip to me, but then also trying to be super casual about it. But then also, I don’t know, it was super awkward.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:28:21] I don’t think she was so much fishing for gossip as much as just she wants to know. I think, you know, she probably wouldn’t want to admit this to herself. But if there’s trouble in paradise there, she, you know, wants to know.
JENNA FISCHER [00:28:35] But what is she gonna do with the information? I’m sorry. We might be moving into wishy washy Pam territory.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:28:41] We’re in wishy washy Pam, because also like, oh, Jenna, your performance is so good when she’s sort of singsongy she’s like, “When I get eight hours compared to like six, it’s like big difference”. Like you have this. And then she’s like, “Got to get that REM sleep, don’t fall asleep at your desk”. And then he’s like, “OK Beesley”. And you turn around to the vending machine and you’re like, stupid.
JENNA FISCHER [00:29:03] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:29:03] Like you’re so like annoyed with yourself.
JENNA FISCHER [00:29:07] All right, well now we’re gonna move back into the bullpen. Michael tells Jim to hire a stripper. He’s like, I will not. Dwight volunteers and immediately starts working on it. Dwight, get someone on the phone. And he asked Jim if they should request a redhead or a brunette. To which Jim responds blond. And then Dwight is like, yes, tons of people. Heather, Rachelle, Gaby, Jamie, Briona, Steph, Allison and many more all asked, “When Dwight asked Jim to choose between a brunette and a redhead stripper, it’s implied that Jim feels uncomfortable answering this question because it’s like he’s deciding between Karen and Pam. Is Pam a redhead”?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:29:54] Oh.
JENNA FISCHER [00:29:54] This is the question. And I. I have seen this question on fan sites before. What color is Pam’s hair? Is she a brunette? Is she a redhead? One person wrote, “My family is very divided on this issue”. Many people said, “This question has families, fiancés and friends divided. Please tell us, what color hair does Pam have”?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:30:18] Well, your hair’s auburn, isn’t it?
JENNA FISCHER [00:30:20] Yeah, it’s like a reddish brown, you guys. I think everyone’s right. But it did have these reddish tones. However, I think I shot a movie over our hiatus and in this particular episode, my hair was not exactly as red as it was, I think, earlier in the show. So when they wrote this line. I think they were expecting that it would be more obvious that they were talking about me because I did have these reddish hues to my hair. But I think it got changed a little bit because I was shooting something and they took a little of the red out. I think that’s the controversy, you guys.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:31:01] Yeah, I just always have thought of your hair as auburn. And I felt like in that moment Jim wasn’t taking any chances, like it was kind of like a dude moment where he’s like, I don’t really know what color her hair is, but if I rule out brown and red, I’m safe. So I’ll just go blond.
JENNA FISCHER [00:31:16] Yeah. I also have a fan catch from the scene from Hannah, who said, “At 8 minutes, 7 seconds, if you look behind Dwight, there is a picture on Phyllis desk of Creed, Phyllis and Ryan. Why does Phyllis have a picture on her desk of the three of them”? And she does. She has a picture of herself and Creed and B.J.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:31:38] Wild.
JENNA FISCHER [00:31:39] I don’t know why, though. But it’s so cute.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:31:41] I don’t either. I always remembered her photo of her and her dad that she brought in.
JENNA FISCHER [00:31:45] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:31:46] Huh.
JENNA FISCHER [00:31:47] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:31:47] OK. Good catch. OK. So now Michael and Ryan have left the office to go to a sex shop for this bachelor party. Michaels is giggling nonstop. Well, Michael gets a phone call. It’s from Jim. He’s letting him know that there are a few options for the male strippers. When he gets his phone call, did you recognize his ringtone?
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:11] What was it?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:32:12] It was “My humps, my humps”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:15] No, I did not.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:32:17] By the Black Eyed Peas.
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:19] All right. I like it.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:32:21] Yup. Jim says, listen, Michael referred me to a male strip club called Banana Slings, but instead I called the Scholastic Speakers of Pennsylvania.
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:31] Maddy, Becky and Andrew all wrote in to ask, “Is Banana Slings a real place? And is Scholastic Speakers of Pennsylvania a real organization that offers a Ben Franklin speaker”? Neither of them seem to be real.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:32:44] I had always thought a banana sling was like a, also like a banana hammock. Isn’t that like a male, sort of like kind of euro Speedo?
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:52] I mean, I think it’s a good name for a male strip club organization, Banana Slings.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:32:56] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:56] It’s like, you know, a lot of men are slinging.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:32:59] Oh, yes.
JENNA FISCHER [00:33:00] They’re bananas.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:33:02] Oh God. So where do we go? OK, now they’re in the elevator. Michael and Ryan are coming back to work. They’re in the elevator. Ben Franklin hops in and Michael’s like, “Are you wearing a thong”?
JENNA FISCHER [00:33:12] And he’s like, “What”?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:33:14] We had actually asked Andy about his wardrobe and what all he was wearing because it looked like so many different pieces.
JENNA FISCHER [00:33:20] Yes. And here is what he had to say.
ANDY DALY [00:33:23] One thing I remember from that shoot was that a few days prior to my coming in to shoot for it, I had to come in for a fitting. And I thought the entire time that I was at this fitting that I was about to get fired because I thought, like, they’re going to put together a look for me as Ben Franklin and then parade me up to all the producers, to Mindy Kaling and all the executive producers, which I was told ahead of time was what was going to happen and that somebody was going to look at me and say, no, go get the middle aged, paunchy bald guy like this is not working. And particularly since my wig was this ridiculous, like, it really was like a Halloween store, bald wig that they then glued. It was meant to look cheap. They glued hair, you know, cheap hair around to it and I was like, this is a definite direction to go in with this, but I’m surprised by it. It feels real weird. And then, yes, when they did parade me in front of those producers, it wasn’t like, they weren’t like, yeah, awesome. They were just like, uh huh. So I don’t know. I do remember that. The other thing I remember about the costume. Yes. It was elaborate, but to make me look chubby they gave me up like a pillow, like a a real costume pillow, a pillow from the costume department for the purpose of making someone look fat. And I don’t remember if it was right next to my skin or if I had an undershirt in between. It doesn’t matter. The point is that if you wear a pillow underneath several layers for like twelve hours, you’re going to get a rash on your stomach if you don’t use like a baby powder or something like that, which it never occurred to me to use. So that is one of my enduring memories of that shoot, having a very itchy rash that whole week, sweating as I was underneath that fat pillow. So just a hot tip, baby powder. I think. I think that would have helped.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:35:18] Amazing. Poor guy. He had a rash the whole week.
JENNA FISCHER [00:35:22] I feel like we should talk with him more because throughout the course of shooting the series, you and I had to wear fake pregnancy bellies. And I feel like the three of us could really go out and have a very, like a bonding evening. Over what it’s like.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:35:36] Oh, oh, we could. I remember wearing a tank top under all my layers that would tuck under the fake belly pillow thing to try to protect my body from it rubbing all day.
JENNA FISCHER [00:35:49] Yeah, because you get a real thin layer of sweat and then that sort of breeds an environment that is real rash happy.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:35:58] It’s rash, happy.
JENNA FISCHER [00:35:59] Like Andy said.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:35:59] Yeah, it’s rash happy. Well, Lady We’re in the conference room now. The Ladies Party is starting. Angela is enjoying sparkling cider. She says it’s very good.
JENNA FISCHER [00:36:12] Yeah. But then Pam tells her, I think that’s champagne and she spits it back into her glass.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:36:16] She does. But later she’s still drinking it.
JENNA FISCHER [00:36:19] Oh my gosh. You, you spotted it. As did Olivia Fitzgerald. That was caught also by Mary Ann, Ashlynn, Phoebe, Meg, Paige and Amy. They all pointed out that Angela drinks her champagne again at 11 minutes and 34 seconds. OK. So after Angela spits her champagne back into her glass, one of my favorite all time moments ever on the series. Michael brings sexy Ben Franklin in, to the room. Everyone is very confused. Every time he walks into that conference room, it makes me laugh. Just thinking about it makes me laugh. Michael tells him that he is giving him permission to spank anyone.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:37:00] Especially Phyllis.
JENNA FISCHER [00:37:02] Who misbehaves, especially Phyllis.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:37:04] And Phyllis looks a little bit like, like maybe tickled by the idea.
JENNA FISCHER [00:37:09] Phyllis is maybe up for it.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:37:12] I know.
JENNA FISCHER [00:37:12] She might be up for it. She’s like, I don’t know.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:37:14] I don’t know. We’ll see where it goes.
JENNA FISCHER [00:37:16] Yeah. At 10 minutes, 20 seconds, there is an exchange between Ben Franklin and Michael that Andy mentioned was one of his favorite scenes to shoot. In addition to a few more that he mentions. But here’s what he had to say about doing this scene.
ANDY DALY [00:37:30] This is just another favorite moment that I wanted to share. There’s a moment in one of the scenes where Michael Scott asks Ben Franklin something like what? What year were you president or something like that? And, and Ben Franklin says, “Actually, I was never president”. And of course, that’s true. Ben Franklin was never president of the United States. And then Michael Scott leans in and quietly says, “Yes, but Ben Franklin was”, thinking that that’s a moment that the actor playing Ben Franklin has dropped character. And thinking, you know, the way an idiot thinks other people are stupid, that this, that this guy is answering the question, that this actor is saying, “I was never president”. Well of course, this actor was never president. Anyway. Why am I explaining the joke? It, that makes me laugh a great deal and is, and is one of my treasured memories from that shoot. And one of my favorite moments from the episode, along with, of course, the moment when after all this refusal to drop character, Ben Franklin or as we come to know him, Gordon, does finally drop character to flirt with Pam and his, what he thinks is going to be a flirty come on is to make it clear that he doesn’t have syphilis, which is not a great pickup line. Like if that’s your pickup line, you need to work on it because that’s, that’s like the bare minimum requirement, I would think, for someone that you’re going to hook up with. It’s not some to brag about. OK, that’s all. Thanks. Bye.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:39:16] He made me laugh. Yes. In that scene, he’s like, well, Benjamin Franklin was never the president. This made me look up who is on our money who wasn’t a president. So there are two. Alexander Hamilton, ten dollar bill, was not a president. Actually, he wasn’t even born in the US. How about that? And then Ben Franklin, not a president, on the one hundred dollar bill. Then, this kind of blew my mind. Every, every person on our paper currency faces to the right, except for one man who faces left, and that is Alexander Hamilton.
JENNA FISCHER [00:39:57] Angela is showing me a cartoon drawing called “Faces on U.S. Currency”. Fascinating. This is the greatest podcast ever. I’m sorry, I’m learning so much today.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:40:11] We are now in the parking lot and the stripper has arrived. Elizabeth. And-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:40:18] Yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:40:19] Dwight is like, “Identify yourself”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:40:23] And she says, “I’m the dancer”. And Dwight is like, “What? I hired a stripper”. And she’s like, “Yes, I am. I am the stripper”. She’s like, I. It’s the same thing. Is what I’m saying.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:40:40] And then, and then Jim is like, “Have you ever seen a stripper”? And Dwight’s like, “Well, kind of. Jennifer Garner in ‘Alias’”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:40:47] I don’t think he says “kind of”. He says, “yes”. Doesn’t he? He’s like. Of course, I have. Jennifer Garner on “Alias”. You know, I auditioned for the role of Sidney Bristow on “Alias”, and I got really far.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:41:01] Are you kidding?
JENNA FISCHER [00:41:02] No.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:41:03] Lady.
JENNA FISCHER [00:41:04] But do you want to-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:41:04] Could you have done all-? It was a very athletic role. I’m not saying, you’re not the most athletic person.
JENNA FISCHER [00:41:11] What are you saying?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:41:11] She had to all kinds of like kicks, flip over things.
JENNA FISCHER [00:41:16] I mean, it sounds like you are saying I can’t do those things, but I will let that go because listen to this.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:41:23] What?
JENNA FISCHER [00:41:23] This was. OK. So I went in and I read for the role and my, my scene that I had to audition with. Was this really emotional, dramatic scene where I’m crying, I think, like about my mother. And it was super intense. And the feedback that my agent got was like, Jenna blew us away. We absolutely loved it. Her scene was, she just did a great job. We’re gonna pass on her because we just unfortunately don’t think she’s hot enough.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:41:53] Oooh.
JENNA FISCHER [00:41:53] That was my feedback. That was my feedback.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:41:58] You know, I have long fantasized that you and I would have a TV show where we were mom detectives. We’ve talked about this.
JENNA FISCHER [00:42:08] What?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:42:09] Remember?
JENNA FISCHER [00:42:09] We’ve never talk about this.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:42:11] Yes, we have. Where we would like drive around and solve just very, very small crime.
JENNA FISCHER [00:42:16] Oh yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:42:16] It’s been a few years, lady, but there was one night, there was one night, there might have been wine involved. But you and I had a few glasses of wine and we were like, here’s a great TV show. Two moms solving very, very minor crimes.
JENNA FISCHER [00:42:31] Like lost pets.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:42:32] Yes.
JENNA FISCHER [00:42:32] And like, is someone cheating on someone?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:42:34] Yes. And remember, I think what sparked the whole thing is I got a flier on my door that a house a few doors down was having massages in the garage, if you would like a massage. And this sent my whole street into a tizzy. We’re like, oh, my God.
JENNA FISCHER [00:42:51] You were like, is this erotic massage?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:42:53] Yes. Like, who advertises massage in my garage? There’s got to be something fishy here. And I was telling you, the story-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:01] Did you investigate?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:02] Oh, I did a few drive bys. I did a few-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:04] And?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:04] I did a few-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:05] And? Were they on the up and up.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:07] The garage was never open. OK.
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:09] Mmmm.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:09] I don’t know whatever happened, but I, I took a few long walks past that house.
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:16] Lady. You’ve seen “The Americans”. You need to dress up in a costume and go get a dang massage in that garage. That’s how you’re gonna find out what’s going on in there.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:24] I need to put on my wig. Go for a massage. But that, me telling you that story. You and I decided, Mom Detectives, solving crimes no one cares about.
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:37] I once had a masseuse kind of offer me a happy ending and a massage.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:40] What? Was it? Was it a man or woman?
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:45] It was a man.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:46] Where were you?
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:46] I was.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:50] How did it come up? What did they say? I need to know everything.
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:55] It was this one place that I would go to in Studio City, you know it, all the time.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:44:00] Studio City is like the suburbs.
JENNA FISCHER [00:44:02] This is where we moved in, like year 10 of living in Los Angeles. We moved out to the suburbs and I went to this place all the time and I always had this female masseuse and I was very loyal to this business, it’s not in business anymore.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:44:16] Shocker.
JENNA FISCHER [00:44:17] I’m not saying this is why.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:44:19] Did they move to the garage at the end of my street?
JENNA FISCHER [00:44:24] They maybe did. They maybe did. So I, you know, I went in and they didn’t have my usual gal and they offered me this. I’m not going to lie. Just this, just this gorgeous man.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:44:36] What?
JENNA FISCHER [00:44:37] I was a little bit like, do I get a massage from this hot guy? Do I-?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:44:44] Now.
JENNA FISCHER [00:44:44] It feels interesting.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:44:45] This is a very personal question. Do you go full commando or do you leave your undies on when you get a massage?
JENNA FISCHER [00:44:53] I take it all off.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:44:55] I can’t. I can’t. I can’t.
JENNA FISCHER [00:44:57] You wear your underwear during massages?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:44:59] I wear my underwear. I’ve also been known to wear my socks because my feet get cold.
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:03] Oh, I do wear my socks because my feet get cold.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:45:05] And I, I never ever take off my underwear because I’m like, I don’t know who’s been on that table. I don’t know.
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:11] They changed the sheets.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:45:12] I don’t care. I’m leaving my underwear on.
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:15] There was just this moment where, it was near the end and it was just like-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:45:21] What did he say?
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:23] Well, it was more like what he said with his hands. You know, it was like-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:45:27] What? What? What do you mean? What he said with his hands? Where were his hands?
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:34] They were just, you know, finishing up the massage.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:45:38] On your forehead.
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:39] They were just inching-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:45:39] Don’t they normally finish the massage? Like-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:41] Here’s what it was. Tell me. Am I misinterpreting? Am I misinterpreting? Because the whole time during this one particular massage, I just kept thinking, I’m getting massaged by a super hot-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:45:50] Oh no. Were you projecting?
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:53] Was I projecting? He, just his hands were on my legs. But they were on my thighs and he was just like, are you good? And I was like, huh? Yeah, I’m good. And then he moved up to my head and finished the massage.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:07] Did he say dropped the cuissage? Can I have the right of the thigh?
JENNA FISCHER [00:46:13] I felt like I was in happy ending territory. I felt like I was in a world where if I gestured toward happy ending lane, I think you might have gone down it with me, perhaps.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:27] I don’t even know where we go from there, lady. Where are we?
JENNA FISCHER [00:46:31] Where we are, Angela, is that Ben Franklin is telling all of the women about his life, the history of his life.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:39] Yes. He’s telling a story, it was a dark evening, you know.
JENNA FISCHER [00:46:43] Oh, and you’re hanging on every word.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:44] I’m hanging on every word. And I have to share with you, this is a very actory moment. I decided to do this. No one told me. That I made the choice that Angela Martin would literally be enthralled by this man. And so when Randall Einhorn was directing, he had Matt Sohn, the camera operator, like pan across all of our expressions. And I had this expression of like, ah, you know?
JENNA FISCHER [00:47:11] Oh.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:47:11] And-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:47:12] You’re loving it.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:47:13] I’m loving it. And Randal was like, “Angela, that is so great. Can you do that every time”? And I was like, “Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah”. So that’s my little actory choice. Little nugget for ya. That I just thought that Angela Martin would be enthralled.
JENNA FISCHER [00:47:26] Well, we had a very actory question for Andy Daly about this scene because we wanted to know if he did any research on the character of Ben Franklin in order to play this role. And here’s what he had to say.
ANDY DALY [00:47:39] I did prepare a bit. So as a “Office” viewer, it always looked to me like the show was somewhat improvised. I think it turns out, actually, that, that it’s just really well-written and really well acted and not really so much improvised. Of course, there is some improvising on the set, but I, not as much as I think I thought. It looks so spontaneous on television. But anyway, the point is that because I figured I would be improvising as a guy who impersonates Ben Franklin for a living. I figured I better know quite a bit about Ben Franklin. And so I just read Wikipedia. But I mean, I read it and I took notes and I kind of, you know, I read it a few times to try to have a lot of these biographical information in my mind. And as I will address in a later, answer to a later question, it came in handy. But that is the preparation that I did.
JENNA FISCHER [00:48:39] I would do that.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:48:40] We would go around about it differently, but we’d show up with information.
JENNA FISCHER [00:48:45] What does that mean? Go around about it differently?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:48:48] Well, just kind of like our research process. You know, you always like, you look at my notes, and you’re like, oh, God, your notes make me, like, queasy. Because I have like a gazillion Post-it notes and note cards and you have, like, a very, like, outline.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:00] Oh, yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:00] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:01] I see what you’re saying. I would research Ben Franklin, write an essay on it and bring it with me. You would fill your script with 72 Post-it notes filled with bits of information about Ben Franklin. Yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:14] Look.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:14] And there it is. There it is. I mean, the proof is right there. You just held up your notes for this episode and it’s like 72.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:20] Post-it notes.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:22] Post-it notes all around.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:23] With arrows and highlighting.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:25] Well, so listen, lady, before we get to Michael’s Man Meat, should we take a break and then we’ll come back and talk all about it?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:34] That’s the segue way of the month.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:37] It’s definitely the segue way for this episode. We’ll be back in a second.OK, guys, we are back. Michael is grilling steaks on his George Foreman grill down in the warehouse. And Ryan asks him, is it the same grill that he used to grill his foot?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:57] And he’s like, “No. OK, yes. But I got all the foot off”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:50:01] Incredible. Then we go upstairs and whoa. Ben Franklin is tying a cherry stem with his tongue. And Pam asked him what kind of undergarments he’s wearing.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:50:14] I just want to point out that Rashida’s response as Karen to Ben Franklin tying that cherry stem is so perfect, ’cause she’s like Ben Franklin did not just tie a cherry stem into a knot. It’s so good. And then. Yeah. Pam, when you ask him that, he has one of my favorite lines. Andy is so good with this line. He’s like, “You’re very saucy”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:50:41] Well, guys, we got a lot of fan questions about this scene. Erin, Brook, Olivia, Laura and Marie all wrote in to say, “Did Ben Franklin actually tie the cherry stem with his mouth”? And here is what Andy Daly had to say.
ANDY DALY [00:50:56] Absolutely not. That is not something I’ve even ever tried to do. That’s crazy. But I am struggling to remember how we shot it. I guess I must have sort of stuck the tied cherry stem sort of in the cor-, stashed it in the corner of my mouth, you know. And then put the other one in and just kind of mimed it and then spit out-, but listen, that’s hard too. To, to have a tied cherry stem hidden in your mouth and then put a real cherry stem in there that’s not tied and then make sure you pull out the right one. That’s pretty impressive right there. But I might be remembering it wrong. It may actually be that the camera kind of swung off me long enough to not have to be so sneaky about it. I don’t remember. But the short answer to your question is no. I did not really tie that cherry stem with my tongue. I can’t imagine how one does that or why one would take the time and effort to learn how.
JENNA FISCHER [00:51:59] I mean, I know why people do that.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:02] Is it like a look at my tongue can do kind of thing?
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:05] Yeah, it’s a, it’s a display of your tongue agility. It’s like a sexual thing.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:10] Why did you say it with such authority? Hey, I know, I know why people do that.
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:15] Well, people want to know if either of us can tie a cherry stem with our mouths. It’s a little bit of an inappropriate question. I mean, it’s personal.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:24] Can you, Jenna?
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:24] You know what? Here’s. You know what I’m going to say?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:26] What?
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:26] I know if I can. I know the answer to that question.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:31] Wait. People wrote in asking if you and I can tie a cherry stem into a knot?
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:37] Yes. It’s a very, very personal question.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:41] Is it?
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:42] It’s very personal.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:43] Is it? Like, who cares? Who cares if you can tie one or not? Like, seriously, what does that mean? What? Really? Come on.
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:52] Well, where did this start? I feel like this started in, like a movie from the 80s or something. Does anybody know? I feel like this took off. I remember this from my youth. It was like this whole like thing. Can you tie a cherry stem in your mouth? I mean, so we, weren’t weren’t we all doing it? Weren’t we all tying cherry stems with our moths?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:53:13] We all tried. We all tried.
JENNA FISCHER [00:53:15] Can this generation’s youth tie cherry stems in their mouth? We’ll never know.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:53:19] You know what? Go on Tik Tok or something. They’re probably doing it on the Tok. Is what they call it? On the Tok. Get on the Tok.
JENNA FISCHER [00:53:25] I’m sure they don’t.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:53:27] Now, Ben Franklin winks at Pam. “Hey, saucey”. Wink! Jenna, I have a question for you?
JENNA FISCHER [00:53:34] Yeah. What is it?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:53:35] Is an unsolicited wink ever a good thing or is it always a douche thing?
JENNA FISCHER [00:53:42] Mmmm. It’s a douche move.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:53:44] I think it’s a little douchey. I think, like. I mean, A. Who even does it? Who, who?
JENNA FISCHER [00:53:52] Douches.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:53:53] Who’s like, hey. Wink.
JENNA FISCHER [00:53:56] Yeah. Well, it’s interesting because we had someone write in, Devin Crutchley said, “Did Pam secretly have a real crush on Ben Franklin because she seemed to be playing into the banter even after he becomes overly flirty with her? And others start picking up on it and playing along”. Here’s the thing, guys, I was so utterly charmed by literally everything Andy Daly was doing as Ben Franklin that I am only ever, like, smiling at him. It had to have been coming through in my performance. And so I think that might have given you the impression that Pam secretly had a crush on Ben Franklin because I personally had a crush on Andy Daly’s performance.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:54:45] Well, I did not see it that way at all. I just, I just saw it as like, listen, none of us are having to work. We’re in this room together. We’re drinking champagne. We’re just like having a good time. So, you know, that’s how I saw it.
JENNA FISCHER [00:55:01] I mean, I didn’t want Ben Franklin to leave. So, you know, I was gonna egg him on. That was, I think Pam’s, where Pam’s coming.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:55:09] Yeah. Keep them talking. The longer he’s talking, the less time I’m sitting there answering phones, looking at the back of Jim’s head. Wait. I just have to say, while this wink is happening in the conference room, in the warehouse, Michael has been grilling steaks. They’re done. And he’s like, “Hey, guys, who wants some man meat”? And Dwight goes, “I do! I want some man meat”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:55:29] And then Creed picks the steak up with his hands because Stanley tries to cut it with a plastic fork and it breaks, which made me laugh so hard. And then Creed just picks it up and starts eating it. I, we should have texted Creed to ask him how that steak tasted.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:55:43] Oh, we should have. I have to tell you guys, you know, Creed lives down the, down my street. Right? He’s at the end of my street and he stopped by, frontyard, social distance hanging out the other night. And he said to us, “Guys, you have got to watch this show, “Alone”. Where they drop people off in the Arctic and then they have to survive. It’s like a survivalist show”. Jenna, I thought of you.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:07] What?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:07] What one man can do or whatever another one can, you know.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:11] No, don’t whatever. Don’t whatever one of the greatest lines written by one of the great American playwrights, David Mamet. Whatever. “What one man has done, another can do”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:23] OK.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:25] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:25] Well, let me tell you, Jenna, you’ve got to watch this show. It’s so, so frickin’ good. Creed has got us in it. We are so invested. It’s the most intense survival series on television and it’s in the Arctic. I’m fascinated. It’s so good. It’s called “Alone”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:43] Do they have supplies?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:45] They get to bring a few things, but they have to pick and choose. And so like, like one guy, you could bring a firestarter thing, but one guy decided not to because he was like, I can make my own fire. But then the first day he like spent all day trying to make fire and he’s like, dammit, I should’ve brought that thing. But anyway, when I saw Creed, who had just told me about the survivalist show, grab the steak with two hands and naw on it.
JENNA FISCHER [00:57:09] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:57:10] It just made me think of-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:57:11] It all came full circle in your brain.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:57:13] It all came full circle. And you need to see it. You love survivalist stuff.
JENNA FISCHER [00:57:16] I do.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:57:16] OK. Now we have to get into the very, very awkward scene. That is Karen and Pam, oof, in the kitchen.
JENNA FISCHER [00:57:26] They’re kind of joking about Ben Franklin. I feel like they’re both like doing a bit about how did he become a Ben Franklin impersonator. And all of a sudden, Karen takes a sharp left turn and she says, hey, you know, I just want you to know, Jim told me, you know, that you guys kissed. And, you know, and Pam’s like, what the what? She is. She’s like, what is happening right now?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:57:54] It’s like her computer shut down.
JENNA FISCHER [00:57:57] And. Yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:57:57] Because now, pretty much none of what she says after this makes any sense.
JENNA FISCHER [00:58:03] No. And OK, so we had someone write in, Jackie Cortez said, “When Pam answers, ‘Oh yeah’ to Karen when Karen asked if she still has feelings for Jim. Do you think that was because Pam was feeling brave in the moment, that she was like trying to say her real feelings in that moment and then she backs out when she sees Karen’s face? And also, how much of this was scripted and how much of it was improvised”? OK, so first of all, this scene plays out exactly as it was scripted. All of those like awkward jumps in dialog were all scripted. I just think it is such a great piece of writing. And I remember I felt being challenged as an actor to make all of those different turns that Pam has to make in the scene. And so when she says, “Oh, yeah”, that’s because she heard the question, “You don’t have feelings for Jim, right”? And she’s like, “Oh, yeah, I don’t have feelings”. But that’s not what Karen said. Karen said, you-, “Do you still have feelings for Jim”? And she’s like, “Oh, yeah”. But like Pam is just like, she’s not hearing everything. And she’s just like her mind is being blown right now by the fact that Jim told Karen this.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:59:20] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:59:20] And you know what? Because now it’s everything we were talking about. It’s not a secret anymore. It’s not Jim and Pam secret anymore. That I think tells Pam that he’s taking this relationship with Karen seriously because he’s willing to tell her the real truth.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:59:35] And now I think Pam is just in like a deer in headlights kind of mode. Well, I thought it was fantastic. I thought you, the two of you did such a great job with it. It was written so well and acted so well and ooh, made me so uncomfortable. So you guys know you did the right, you did your job.
JENNA FISCHER [00:59:53] Rashida and I had a lot of fun shooting that scene. All right. Should we go back down to the warehouse where Kevin is leading all of the guys in a card game?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:03] Yeah. He says it’s a no limit deuce to seven lowball, which I think is the same one he did in “Casino Night”, right?
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:10] Yes, that is what he won in the World Series of Poker.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:14] OK.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:14] He tells us in “Casino Night”.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:16] And then Michael shuffles the cards like a total idiot.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:20] Yes. Yes. We had a fan catch from Katie who said, “In this episode, around 12 minutes, 46 seconds, Kevin’s wearing glasses again”. There he is. He wears glasses when he plays poker. But not when he’s working.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:33] Not as an accountant. Just when he plays cards.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:36] And this is when Elizabeth enters, she comes out of Daryl’s office. She has changed out of her sweat pants and sweat shirt. And she is now in a breakaway sexy office attire.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:52] Mmhmm.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:52] We had a huge fan catch from Kristen Trogle.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:55] Kristen, what did you catch?
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:57] Pam’s shirt, in “The Dundies”, is the same shirt that Elizabeth the Stripper, rips off in Ben Franklin.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:01:04] Oh, my God. Did they recycle one of your shirts? Did wardrobe make it like a breakaway kind of blouse or something?
JENNA FISCHER [01:01:12] Yes. Yes. Elizabeth is wearing one of my old shirts. So I actually first wore it for “Basketball” and then I wear it again in “Dundies” and I reached out to Carrie Bennett, our wardrobe supervisor, about this.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:01:28] What’d she say?
JENNA FISCHER [01:01:30] She said that this was not in the script. This was not like any kind of direction she was given because a lot of people did write in and ask, like, was this on purpose? Did, did you want us to notice that this was the identical shirt that Pam has worn? Was that a joke that was written in the script? It wasn’t. She said that oftentimes when a guest actor is cast at the very last minute, she doesn’t have time to go shopping for them. So what wardrobe designers do is they go into their, quote unquote, “retired wardrobe”, and this is a stash of outfits that have been retired, but that used to belong to the main cast members. So she had to find a shirt that fit Elizabeth and then it had to be converted into a rip away shirt. And so they just didn’t have time to go shopping and convert a shirt into a ripped away shirt because the timing of when Jackie was cast, they had to just go into Pam’s old wardrobe and that’s what they did. And she said she can’t believe that people noticed.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:02:35] Well, listen, Elizabeth the Stripper, you’re lucky you didn’t get any of Angela Martin’s retired wardrobe.
JENNA FISCHER [01:02:43] Oh, no. Oh, no. That would have been very bad. It would’ve been very bad.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:02:48] That’s a great catch, though.
JENNA FISCHER [01:02:50] I know and Carrie also said that this happens all the time on TV shows. She said you will often spot retired clothing from the main cast being repurposed for guest actors. I feel like, everybody, you can look for that along with the fakey bag.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:03:06] Fakey bag. Well, now she starts her dance. It’s to Bad Company’s “Feel Like Making Love”. No one wanted the dance. Bob Vance didn’t want it. Michael’s like, OK. And this is so awkward. He doesn’t know what to do with himself. He’s so uncomfortable. He just starts muttering. “You smell like Tide. Yep. Smell like Tide. Do you use Tide”?
JENNA FISCHER [01:03:28] We had a couple of people right in Zoyee and Dan asked, “When Elizabeth is dancing on Michael, how much of the dialog was scripted”? All of it. And you guys, we’ve talked a little bit about like scenes where someone has to slap someone. You know? And how we bring in a stunt coordinator, you do that kind of stuff in scenes like this too. Any scenes that have any kind of like touching, dancing up on someone, a sex scene, they are choreographed.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:03:59] A fight scene.
JENNA FISCHER [01:03:59] You do not-.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:04:00] It’s, it’s really no different than, like a fight scene. It’s like I’m going to sit here, I’m gonna put my arm here, then I’m gonna stand here. It’s all rehearsed.
JENNA FISCHER [01:04:08] Yes. You don’t freestyle stuff.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:04:10] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [01:04:10] Yeah. So where she sits on his leg, all of the dancing she’s gonna do, when she’s gonna rip open her shirt. Very scripted. The dialog was scripted. I wasn’t surprised when I went back to the script because I thought, yeah, I don’t, I don’t think in a moment like this that they would have, like, freestyled that.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:04:27] No, that was all scripted. And, and-.
JENNA FISCHER [01:04:30] Yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:04:30] Michael is just overwhelmed. He’s like, this is wrong. I have a girlfriend and he, he storms off. It was just all too much for him.
JENNA FISCHER [01:04:39] Yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:04:39] And Dwight. Being the frugal fella he is is like, hey, I paid you for three hours. I’m going to get three hours of work out of you. So now you have to go answer phones. And because Oscar is nowhere to be seen, even though he has returned. Did we shoot this out of order? Jenna, why isn’t Oscar there?
JENNA FISCHER [01:04:58] I don’t know. Because “The Traveling Salesmen” and “The Return” were shot in October.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:05:03] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [01:05:03] And this was shot in January. So it doesn’t make sense why Oscar isn’t there.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:05:08] It doesn’t. So anyway, Dwight brings Elizabeth to accounting to sit in Oscar’s seat. Elizabeth is very overwhelming for Angela. And she’s like, uuuuh. Sort of like this very Elizabethan like fanning myself.
JENNA FISCHER [01:05:24] Yes. Well, here’s the thing. She compliments your baby poster.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:05:28] It doesn’t matter. it doesn’t matter.
JENNA FISCHER [01:05:30] I know. She really is. She’s a fan of baby jazz like your character is. But a lot of people wrote in. Sierra, Tiffany, Camille and Krista are like, “What is the baby poster doing back up”? Angela, did your character put it up when Oscar went on his sabbatical? That’s what they want to know.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:05:50] I love this theory. I fully support it. The minute Oscar left, she’s like, my poster is going back up.
JENNA FISCHER [01:05:57] Meanwhile, Ben Franklin, a.k.a. Gordon, is hitting on Pam at reception. Andy said a little bit about this in his audio clip. So funny.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:06:08] So funny. And now Michael doesn’t know what to do. He feels like he’s cheated on Jan. He talks to Ben Franklin, wants Ben Franklin’s advice. Ben Franklin, slash, Gordon basically says, “I don’t think she needs to know this information”.
JENNA FISCHER [01:06:21] And Michael is like, “Ben Franklin. You’re kind of a sleazebag”. And you guys, Ben Franklin was kind of sleazebag with women. He like actually really was. If you look it up, he, just, he like literally slept with so many women. And there’s one thing that’s inaccurate in this episode, though. In this episode, you know, he had a child with one woman who was not his wife. And in the episode, he says that like she didn’t know. That he had. He, he sort of says to Michael, like, I fathered a child. And I never told my wife about it. But that’s not true. Actually, his wife raised that child like her own.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:07:05] Oh, my gosh.
JENNA FISCHER [01:07:07] His wife, Deborah, was a saint. I’m going to say.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:07:11] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [01:07:11] And she put up with Ben’s bad behavior. Well, now, Michael did not like his advice from Ben Franklin. So he’s going to go ask Elizabeth for her advice instead. Here is her advice to Michael. Quote, “Secrets secrets are no fun. Secrets secrets hurt someone”. Angela, do you know what that is? Do you know that’s what that quote is?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:07:36] I was about to say, please tell me you researched this quote. Is it from like a children’s book? What is it from?
JENNA FISCHER [01:07:41] These are the opening lyrics to a song called “No Secrets” by a girl band called No Secrets. From their album-.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:07:52] No Secrets?
JENNA FISCHER [01:07:53] No Secrets. And I asked Sam and Cody to pull a clip. Here it is, Angela.
NO SECRETS [01:08:07] [No Secrets Song Plays]
JENNA FISCHER [01:08:25] “No Secrets” was a British American girl band. Very reminiscent of Spice Girls. They had one hit, which was a cover of Kids in America. That song by Kim Wilde. “We’re the kids in America. Oh. We’re the kids in America”. Do you remember that song?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:08:41] I kind of do.
JENNA FISCHER [01:08:42] They followed up with another hit single, “That’s What Girls Do”, but they only ever made one album. They started on a second one, but it was never released. The band broke up over disagreements and one member claims it was parent drama and interference. But I. Here’s the thing. Mindy Kaling wrote this episode. I have no doubt, no doubt in my mind that she has the album, “No Secrets” by No Secrets. And that’s how she knew, to quote this line.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:09:12] I mean, it seems pretty specific.
JENNA FISCHER [01:09:14] We also had a fan catch in the scene from Karina Lou, who says at 17 minutes, 52 seconds, “There is a flier on the refrigerator behind Michael for Silver on Spruce”. Karina says, “I did a small, deep dive. And it looks like this is a real business with two different addresses. And the telephone number on the flier is correct”. I checked it out. Karina is right. Yes, Silver on Spruce.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:09:38] I wonder if this jewelry store has gotten like prank calls because you can see the phone number in our episode.
JENNA FISCHER [01:09:46] Well, I imagine Karina is not the first person to freeze frame on this.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:09:48] I wonder if the kids on the Tok have called the number.
JENNA FISCHER [01:09:52] Lady, it is not called the Tok. And you’re not gonna get them to call it the Tok. OK?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:09:58] Gosh, everyone on the Tok.
JENNA FISCHER [01:10:01] All right, guys, we’re almost done. I promise. I promise. But we cannot leave this episode without talking about this scene where Dwight is interrogating Ben Franklin because Jim has convinced him that this is the real Ben Franklin, who has time traveled to visit us at Dunder Mifflin. He’s 99 percent sure it’s not the real Ben Franklin, but he’s going to interrogate him anyway.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:10:29] Yeah. This scene was so funny.
JENNA FISCHER [01:10:31] So funny, and Dwight is just like challenging him with questions about the time period when he lived. And Andy told us that this was one of his favorite to shoot. And this is what he had to say.
ANDY DALY [01:10:45] This is where my research into Ben Franklin came in handy. There were a bunch of scripted lines in that scene where Rainn Wilson is challenging this Ben Franklin impersonator, trying to trip him up, to find the lapse in his knowledge about Ben Franklin. And so he’s just throwing all these questions at, but one that he improvised was, “Are you nearsighted or farsighted”? That was not in the script. It was never discussed beforehand that he was going to say that, he just threw that out in the middle of a take. And I, because I had just read the Wikipedia page about Ben Franklin, knew that Ben Franklin invented the bifocals and he invented the bifocals because he needed them, because his, his distance sight was challenged, as was his reading sight. And so I was able to say, without having to think about it or hesitate, “Both. That’s why I invented the bifocal”. And that is an, is an unusual kind of magical improvised moment. It’s so strange that he asked me a question for which I was prepared with the perfect answer. It’s very strange. And when, and in fact, when they called cut, I remember Mindy Kaling saying, “Did you guys work that out beforehand”? And we were both like, “No”. And we were we all kind of stumped. That’s, it’s very strange that that’s an improvised moment. And yeah, it ended up in the show, of course, because why? Why wouldn’t it? So, yes, that’s my answer.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:12:21] Amazing. Lady, this is, you know, my nerdy moment where I say it’s the group mind.
JENNA FISCHER [01:12:26] Also actors, this is why you need to do your prep work.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:12:28] Always, always.
JENNA FISCHER [01:12:30] Guys, actors do not just show up on set and just make it up as they go. We study. It’s a craft. We take it seriously.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:12:39] Yeah. I always, always try to flesh out my character. And if they’ve given me any kind of nugget like, you know, obviously he had Ben Franklin, I, I do a deep dive so I have all this in my head in case I need it.
JENNA FISCHER [01:12:51] Lady, do you think that’s why we do all these deep dives for the podcast? Is it like, is that our actor brains at work? Because that’s the kind of stuff I would do for a scene.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:13:02] Yeah. It’s also, Jenna, a little bit of a glimpse into maybe the fact that we were kind of, the dorks in college who hung out in the library.
JENNA FISCHER [01:13:11] Before we move on to the next scene, Angela, I have a very quick fan catch for Maggie Donner. I’m calling it “Proof of Cold”.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:13:19] Oh.
JENNA FISCHER [01:13:20] You know, we’ve talked a lot about our set was really cold all the time. In the background of Dwight’s talking head, where he’s talking about Ben Franklin. You can see Karen sitting at her desk and she has a blanket on her back.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:13:33] Oh, no way.
JENNA FISCHER [01:13:35] Maggie Donner caught that “Proof of Cold”.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:13:37] Oh, Maggie, that’s such a great catch. That’s a good one. Yeah. We were always freezing. Well, you know, Jenna. We can’t wrap up without Pam having this moment in the break room where she tells Ryan in front of Jim, “You know what? I’m ready for you to set me up”. Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [01:13:59] Yeah. She is. She’s like, yeah. I want to, I want to go out with one of your business school friends. What’s that about?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:14:06] She’s feeling it. She’s had this conversation where Karen now knows. Jim has told her.
JENNA FISCHER [01:14:11] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:14:11] Jim is saying they’re having all these, like, really long, heartfelt talks. Pam’s like, oh, crap. I might as well get myself out there.
JENNA FISCHER [01:14:19] Well, and Jim’s like, oh, maybe you should go out with Ben Franklin. And I think Pam’s like, you know what? You need to. Don’t tell me who I should date, OK?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:14:29] Just sit back Jim and watch me revenge date now.
JENNA FISCHER [01:14:32] Pretty much. Pretty much. Well, and then before we go, Angela, we have to discuss the fact that Michael calls Jan and confesses that he had a woman dancing up on him. And Jan’s like, “When? This weekend? Last night, like, when did this happen”? He’s like, “No, it was at work in the warehouse”. And she’s like, “Michael! I’m, I’m”, like, and he’s like, “I’m sorry, are you mad”? And she’s like, “I’m like close to firing you”.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:15:01] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [01:15:01] And he’s like, “Oh, what a relief”.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:15:03] I have the best G.D. girlfriend in the world.
JENNA FISCHER [01:15:07] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:15:07] And she’s like-.
JENNA FISCHER [01:15:09] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:15:09] She couldn’t believe that it happened in the afternoon at work. That was her concern.
JENNA FISCHER [01:15:15] And then Michael has the talking head where he says Ben Franklin kind of turned out to be a creep. And Elizabeth the Stripper gave great advice that rhymed. And it just really makes you wonder how Ben Franklin can become president, but someone like Elizabeth can’t. It does make you effing wonder. It’s called misogyny, everyone.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:15:35] Here we go. Here we go. I do love that he, he really appreciated that her advice rhymed because I feel like this is just that callback to that giant owl that came and spoke at his school.
JENNA FISCHER [01:15:45] Yeah. Yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:15:47] She had a costume. She talked in rhyme. She really got through to him.
JENNA FISCHER [01:15:52] Well, those are the two ways to get through to people. You either need to dress up in a costume or rhyme. These are very effective ways.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:16:00] OK, we’re coming to the close of this episode. But Jenna, there were two deleted scenes that I thought were worth mentioning. Number one, at the very beginning of the episode, Toby is like, “Michael, you can’t have strippers at work”. Right? Of course, Human Resources would not let this happen.
JENNA FISCHER [01:16:18] Oh, I’ve wondered where Toby was in all of this.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:16:20] Yeah. And so how they got around this is that Michael just says, “Well, you know what, Toby, you can just go home”. And then the other deleted scene that I thought was kind of funny, where Kevin has a talking head and he shares that he bought his girlfriend, Stacey, a stripper pole for her birthday, but he doesn’t know how to install it.
JENNA FISCHER [01:16:40] Oh. So he has an uninstalled stripper pole in his house.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:16:45] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [01:16:45] This is going to be a huge tangent, but, you know, the comedian Nicole Byer.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:16:51] Oh! She has a stripper pole.
JENNA FISCHER [01:16:54] She has a stripper pole and she’s like real good on it. And she’s post videos all the time on Instagram and they talk about it on their podcast. They’re like, it’s like an exercise now. The stripper pole as exercise.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:17:08] Yeah. I don’t know if it’s been a while for you since you tried to crawl up a pole. Like shimmy up a pole.
JENNA FISCHER [01:17:16] Been awhile? That implies that I ever tried to shimmy up a stripper pole.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:17:21] Not a stripper pole.
JENNA FISCHER [01:17:21] Stop.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:17:22] Not a stripper pole. I just want you to know, when I watch Nicole’s videos on Instagram, I’m always amazed because at the playground with the kids, like a few years ago, there was like the pole, that’s like the fireman’s pole. You know, you can climb up the play structure.
JENNA FISCHER [01:17:37] Sure.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:17:37] And then slide down it. And the kids were doing the thing where they scooch up it. And they were like, “Mom, come on”. Jenna. I got like two feet off the ground. I was like, “I can’t”. I’m so horrible at it.
JENNA FISCHER [01:17:50] I tried to climb a rope recently and I didn’t get far. I also tried to do a cartwheel and I threw my back out. Oh. But the worst is when I tried to do a somersault and I really jacked my neck.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:18:00] Well.
JENNA FISCHER [01:18:02] I don’t think I’m stripper pole material.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:18:04] You also-.
JENNA FISCHER [01:18:05] It’s not in my future.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:18:06] So also maybe couldn’t have been Sidney-.
JENNA FISCHER [01:18:13] Say it.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:18:14] Jenna.
JENNA FISCHER [01:18:16] Say it.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:18:16] I don’t. Listen, you are a phenomenal actress. I don’t see you doing a, like a handstand and like taking a like a grenade out of your back pocket and throwing it through a window as you flip off a table.
JENNA FISCHER [01:18:28] Hmmm. OK. You clearly have strong feelings about my limitations.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:18:35] You know what? I traveled with you with a guitar, and I saw what it was like, you navigating a guitar through an airport, getting it on a plane. It was very difficult for you.
JENNA FISCHER [01:18:49] All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. I will say this. I did recently purchase, I’m so excited to get it, a portable tap dancing floor.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:18:59] This is who you are. Yes.
JENNA FISCHER [01:19:03] So get ready for that. I’ve already started learning a tap dance to the song “Footloose”, and I’m going to send you a video. I’m going to put on my overalls and I’m going to dance in front of my barn.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:19:13] Well, I-.
JENNA FISCHER [01:19:14] On my portable floor.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:19:14] I’ve come and sit at the end of your driveway and play a few glasses-.
JENNA FISCHER [01:19:19] Of the glass armonica.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:19:21] Hee hee hee hee hee.
JENNA FISCHER [01:19:22] All right.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:19:26] Hee hee hee hee hee hee hee.
JENNA FISCHER [01:19:31] And I’m going to tap dance my little heart out. Guys, that’s “Ben Franklin”. Before we go, we have a final audio clip from Andy Daly. I was curious. I had to know, has he ever played any other historic figures or founding fathers? Here’s what he had to say.
ANDY DALY [01:19:50] I did play Teddy Roosevelt in an episode of “Drunk History” that was very memorable. I got to ride a horse and wear a fake mustache. And that was great. But, you know, a long time ago back and I would say 2002, I put up a sketch show at the UCB Theater in New York. And one of the sketches was about Alexander Hamilton debating federalism with someone, which sounds like a terrible comedy sketch. And maybe it was. But I played Alexander Hamilton in that. And it is my opinion that Lin Manuel Miranda saw that sketch and was inspired to write “Hamilton”. And I’ve always felt kind of ripped off like it’s, you know, it’s nice that Ron Chernow, who wrote the Hamilton biography, gets kind of, he gets credit for the extent to which he inspired that play. But I am not, you will never see my name in the playbill or in the credits of the movie. I am just a very conveniently completely forgotten. And I can’t prove that Lin Manuel Miranda was in the audience or ever saw that sketch. But, you know, common sense dictates that that’s how “Hamilton” came about. But that’s it. Teddy Roosevelt, Alexander Hamilton and Ben Franklin are the only founding fathers I have ever played in my entire career.
JENNA FISCHER [01:21:10] Wow.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:21:11] Three more founding fathers than I’ve played.
JENNA FISCHER [01:21:13] I love it. I love Andy Daly. You guys, if you want to keep listening to this very, very, very funny person, you can find him on his own Earwolf podcast called “Bananas for Bonanza”, which is a rewatch podcast of the classic Western TV show “Bonanza”. You can also find him on Twitter and Instagram at TVsAndyDaly. His last name is spelled D-a-l-y.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:21:38] I cannot wait to listen to that podcast. I used to watch “Bonanza” with my dad.
JENNA FISCHER [01:21:43] It’s Andy Daily. That’s all you need to know.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:21:45] Alright. Well, thank you guys so much for sending in your questions, for listening to us ramble on about all of these deep dives we did. This was a lot of fun for us. We love this episode and we hope you guys have a great week.
JENNA FISCHER [01:21:57] Yeah, we’ll see you next week.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:22:02] Thank you for listening to “Office Ladies”. “Office Ladies” is produced by Earwolf, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey.
JENNA FISCHER [01:22:08] Our producer is Codi Fischer, our sound engineer is Sam Kieffer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubbico.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:22:14] Our theme song is “Rubber Tree” by Creed Bratton.
JENNA FISCHER [01:22:17] For ad free versions of “Office Ladies”. Go to StitcherPremium.com. For a free one month trial of Stitcher Premium, use code “Office”.
Recent EpisodesSee All
March 14, 2023
EP. 159 — The Inner Circle
This week we’re breaking down “The Inner Circle.” Deangelo Vickers has created an exclusive inner circle at the office that is composed only of men and it pisses off the women.
March 7, 2023
EP. 158 — Interview with Steve Carell
Guest Steve Carell
This week we’re interviewing Steve Carell! Steve talks about what it was like to be on “The Office,” play Michael Scott and everyone reminisces over some favorite Michael moments.
February 28, 2023
EP. 157 — Goodbye Michael with Greg Daniels, Pt 2
Guest Greg Daniels
This week we finish breaking down “Goodbye Michael” and we are joined again with the writer of the episode, Greg Daniels!