January 19, 2023
This week Paul, June, and Jason break down the 2017 “erotic” thriller Open Marriage—a movie Paul insists felt sexy to watch at night but sad to watch during the day. They discuss the sex club inhabited by masked mannequins, bouncer/bartender Vulnavia, the wicker baby carriage, and how the characters mirror the White Lotus season 2 couples. Plus, June asks the question, “Is it appropriate to take a bath at a friend’s house?”
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310 — Open Marriage
Paul Scheer [00:00:00] The password is come kumquat. We saw Open Marriage. So you know what that means?
Intro Song [00:00:14] [Intro Song]
Paul Scheer [00:00:25] Hello, people of Earth and welcome to How Did This Get Made? I’m your host, Paul Scheer, a.k.a. Tall John. And today we are talking about another Lifetime original film. This one is called Open Marriage, and it is about a couple who decides to have an open marriage and then the dire consequences that come with it. There are murders, guns, pregnancies and sex clubs. So much to get into. Here to break it all down are my two co-host. Please welcome Jason Mantzoukas and June Diane Raphael. How are you both?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:01:02] Wow. This was this was a watch. This really explored open marriage, I thought very fairly, very thoughtfully.
June Diane Raphael [00:01:10] Well you know, Jason, when when a woman is struggling with fertility, you know, as so many women do, the first step is always open marriage. You know, that’s a very honestly tired narrative. You see. We just see it over and over and over again.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:01:30] This is maybe the most, maybe the most I’ve ever stopped a movie while watching to make sure I was watching the right movie. I was certain multiple times. I must be watching a different Open Marriage.
Paul Scheer [00:01:46] I… I not only stopped the movie twice because I was like, “Oh no, this can’t be it.” Because this is and I know we’ve done a lot of movies that, you know, revolve around sexual activity and complicated sexual activity. We’ve talked about fuck pillows here on the show, but–.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:02:03] Fuck pellows.
Paul Scheer [00:02:04] Yes, pellows.
June Diane Raphael [00:02:06] Yeah, I say it the same.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:02:08] I know, don’t warry about it. Don’t warry about it.
Paul Scheer [00:02:10] But this is the closest to porn that we’ve ever gotten to without nudity. Like it is basic cable porn.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:02:22] It felt like a like a Skinamax type movie. But you’re saying your intro is the first thing that clued me into that. It was a Lifetime movie, and I was–
June Diane Raphael [00:02:31] I was surprised to hear that it was Lifetime movie.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:02:32] Now, that makes all the sense.
June Diane Raphael [00:02:33] It seemed actually, though, both too sexy and not enough of a thriller or a romance to be a Lifetime film. In terms of my standards for Lifetime.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:02:46] Oh, that’s interesting, because I feel like, Oh, because it’s a lifetime film. That’s why it didn’t go further, because I felt like it was like a porno or it felt like it. It felt like they were shooting a porno. And then we’re like, “Okay, we’re going to do one take where everybody does nothing at the end where the sex scene doesn’t happen.” You know?
Paul Scheer [00:03:06] Right.
June Diane Raphael [00:03:07] Right, right.
Paul Scheer [00:03:08] Well, there is this idea. I mean, there’s so much going on here.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:03:12] While simultaneously having nothing going on.
Paul Scheer [00:03:15] Nothing. I mean, nothing.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:03:17] There are six people in this movie.
Paul Scheer [00:03:20] And by the way, four main characters. Yeah. Three sets. One, which do you recognize one of the sets from the film?
June Diane Raphael [00:03:27] Okay, I did. Is their loft the same loft as– I’m not going to remember the movie we did, but there’s another movie.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:03:38] Deadly Photographer?
Paul Scheer [00:03:38] Yes.
June Diane Raphael [00:03:39] Yes, yes. Is it the same loft?
Paul Scheer [00:03:41] Down to the lava lamps in the window. It is the same exact loft. The Lifetime location manager, hard at work, knocking down another solid.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:03:54] They must just own– They must just own these buildings.
June Diane Raphael [00:03:59] You know what I thought was weird, though? Like, why not? Why not choose a different exterior for that loft? Like, that loft could be anywhere. And that exterior was like a strange spot and storefront.
Paul Scheer [00:04:12] It looked like an abandon, like, a store where you used to buy lights, like a light fixture.
June Diane Raphael [00:04:18] It did not look residential at all.
Paul Scheer [00:04:19] No.
June Diane Raphael [00:04:20] And I know that’s the point in some ways, but it just seemed very wrong.
Paul Scheer [00:04:22] That’s not where people live. People don’t live on the ground floor entrance loft like that is–
June Diane Raphael [00:04:28] You couldn’t get plumbing. And it’s just not zoned for that.
Paul Scheer [00:04:33] It’s like a building without windows. And that’s the other thing too. Like isn’t a loft. Like part of it is there are windows, like they look like an adobe front, like there was no front windows to it from the street.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:04:43] Yes, there is no light coming in except for on the second floor. That’s where– like what would be the the second floor. That’s where all the windows were.
June Diane Raphael [00:04:52] That’s pretty standard for Lifetime lofts, thought, is that there’s never any windows so they can shoot whenever.
Paul Scheer [00:04:58] Oh yes.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:04:58] Yeah. Morning, noon, and night.
Paul Scheer [00:05:00] When he walked outside. He walked outside at one point and it was jarring. I forget what I thought it was. I mean, this movie does shoot from night to day. Like when they meet that couple by the pool, they’re very rich friend. They go, “Oh, we got to go. It’s getting late.”.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:05:13] We got to talk about– the introduction of this movie is basically the same as the season two of White Lotus characters, this foursome is the same setup as Megan Faye and Theo James. I’m forgetting the other actor’s name and Aubrey Plaza, the four of them. One couple is rich. The guys are friends from college. There’s a sexual free zone between them. Like, there is–
June Diane Raphael [00:05:42] Are you accusing Mike White of ripping off Open Marriage?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:05:44] Down to the fact that the rich couple says to the other couple, “We never fight.” That is episode one of White Lotus. It’s the same conversation.
Paul Scheer [00:05:58] Let’s listen to it.
Movie Audio [00:05:59] So being rich gives you guys better sex, too?
Movie Audio [00:06:03] Come on, guys.
Movie Audio [00:06:05] What’s with you two today?
Movie Audio [00:06:06] Well, actually, that’s the point. You see, it’s not just us two.
Movie Audio [00:06:13] What’s not just us two?
Movie Audio [00:06:15] Yeah, what are you talking about?
Movie Audio [00:06:17] Mindy and I have been on an extraordinary adventure. We’ve opened our marriage.
Movie Audio [00:06:25] It’s a whole new, glorious world.
Movie Audio [00:06:28] Wait. So. So you guys are having sex with other people?
Movie Audio [00:06:31] Yes.
Movie Audio [00:06:33] Isn’t that dangerous? Like playing with fire?
Movie Audio [00:06:38] It is. But playing with fire is what makes it so hot.
Movie Audio [00:06:42] Until you get burned.
Paul Scheer [00:06:44] I mean, that opening and the way that they talk to each other, I’m creeped out by this couple immediately. They seem like they are best of friends, but yet they’ve just met.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:06:55] Best of friends, worst of enemies.
June Diane Raphael [00:06:58] Wait, have they just met? Because I thought they all went to college together.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:07:03] Yes.
Paul Scheer [00:07:03] They act like they–
June Diane Raphael [00:07:05] Oh, they seem like they just met.
Paul Scheer [00:07:06] Yeah, they seem so static. And they seem–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:07:10] Well, there’s no ease to them. There’s no comfort. There’s no… They don’t seem to have a lived-in relationship. Mostly–
June Diane Raphael [00:07:18] But isn’t that the point? That’s because they’re like new again. You know? They’ve got that new sort of chemistry and texture to their relationship.
Paul Scheer [00:07:26] They have that new money from that big sale on Rodeo.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:07:30] And Mindy is a blond now because blonds have more fun.
Paul Scheer [00:07:34] Oh, I wanted to straighten out her hair. I was so happy when it was straightened at the end.
June Diane Raphael [00:07:39] Paul!
Paul Scheer [00:07:42] I just felt like something was off, like I like a curl, I like a frizz. I like. But it felt like that wasn’t– I felt like that was not her natural way of looking. And she put that on and I was relieved at the end when it was revealed that she actually had straight hair.
June Diane Raphael [00:07:58] See, I don’t know if you’re right about that. I never knew you to be so anti curl, first of all. This is upsetting because my hair is naturally curly and I never wear it curly.
Paul Scheer [00:08:08] No, it’s not like that.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:08:09] June. June you’ve said in the past that you like a bigger boy. Paul is here to say no curls.
June Diane Raphael [00:08:16] Really? I’m really surprised, Paul. I think that is her natural curl.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:08:21] I agree.
June Diane Raphael [00:08:21] And and in fact, when I saw her with straight hair, I was like, something’s amiss.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:08:27] Yeah.
Paul Scheer [00:08:29] Oh, you see, I felt like everything worked. The actress is–
June Diane Raphael [00:08:31] naturally curly.
Paul Scheer [00:08:32] Producer Molly chiming in. Okay.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:08:34] But it allowed us insight when in later in the movie, she becomes the straight haired lady in white.
Paul Scheer [00:08:45] She’s doing a lot of work. A lot of work.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:08:48] I feel like that prop mask covered in feathers. They were like, “No more feathers. Put more feathers on it.”
Paul Scheer [00:08:53] Just so you know, there is a there’s a thriller aspect to this film. We open up with a bloody alarm clock on the white carpet.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:03] The kind of clock that you get at a flea market. It’s made up of like old pipes and screws.
Paul Scheer [00:09:09] I was like, it looked like the worst thing in an antique store. The thing in the antique store that doesn’t move.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:14] Brand new. It’s literally assembled. It’s like from a flea market. It’s crazy.
June Diane Raphael [00:09:20] Well, the hair’s going to come back into play because in that opening shot, we see the bloody alarm clock. And then we also see a straight haired blond woman in a white negligee fall to the ground.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:34] Yes.
Paul Scheer [00:09:34] And here’s the thing. It’s a thriller. Who did this? Who was dead? There are four people and two of them are women and two of them are blond. It’s not–
June Diane Raphael [00:09:46] Don’t forget about Angelique.
Paul Scheer [00:09:47] Well, Angelique is not a blond and Angelique is barely in this movie. Angelique is one one line or two lines above background and she’s great.
June Diane Raphael [00:09:59] Well don’t forget about the bouncer of Open for Business Indery or Indigo. What’s her name?
Paul Scheer [00:10:06] Oh my Gosh.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:10:07] This poor woman has to both let everybody in and man the bar herself?
Paul Scheer [00:10:13] Vulnavia who runs the sex club, which is called Open for Business.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:10:22] Which, by the way, I love.
Movie Audio [00:10:23] What is this place?
Movie Audio [00:10:26] Open for business.
Movie Audio [00:10:28] It’s an underground club. Mindy found it.
Movie Audio [00:10:31] There’s this app called Caligula that shows all the nearest hotspots for open minded people like us.
Movie Audio [00:10:37] I wasn’t expecting to do this with total strangers.
Movie Audio [00:10:40] Yeah.
Movie Audio [00:10:41] Stop worrying. You can just watch. No pressure.
Movie Audio [00:10:45] Password.
Movie Audio [00:10:47] Kumquat.
Movie Audio [00:10:49] I am Vulnavia. And we only have three rules here. Number one, anything– and I mean anything– goes. Number two, if anything doesn’t go. Well tonight, safe word is suspended. And number three, have fun.
June Diane Raphael [00:11:08] Okay. I loved every single password and safeword. Every time I heard them, I was like, wow, this writer is so careless in so many other ways and the dialog is so terrible, except for the passwords and safewords.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:11:24] Yes.
Paul Scheer [00:11:25] Suspenders?
June Diane Raphael [00:11:26] Kumquat to suspenders to Romeo. There’s another password I’m trying to remember.
Paul Scheer [00:11:32] There was one that was really simple. It was like I felt it was like “balloons.” I was like, wait, what? Like, all of a sudden you didn’t go sexual?
June Diane Raphael [00:11:41] I’m going to need to spend the next roughly hour discussing the fact that there’s an app.
Paul Scheer [00:11:47] Well, it’s like Grindr.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:11:48] Is the app just to tell you what today’s password is? But it also outs people who are– what could make this six clubs be shut down more than them just blasting out pictures from inside the sex club?
Paul Scheer [00:12:01] And why are you allowed to take out your phone?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:12:03] That the mayor gets? The mayor gets these photos?
June Diane Raphael [00:12:08] Okay. Obviously, by the way, the mayor is 1,000% like on that app, because otherwise, I don’t know how what’s-her-face would have gotten him those photos. So here’s what I’m now thinking, because in the beginning we find this couple and they have are just recently rich people. So they’ve just come into a lot of money because he sold a property on Rodeo Drive.
Paul Scheer [00:12:34] The less specific, the better. Property on Rodeo.
June Diane Raphael [00:12:38] That’s enough for me. But I’m now thinking like Mindy has probably made a lot of money creating the tech for that app and also having some sort of a stake in the club Caligula.
Paul Scheer [00:12:56] Wait, you think that Mindy is somehow the owner or co-owner or ghost owner of Club Caligula?
June Diane Raphael [00:13:03] More importantly, the app.
Paul Scheer [00:13:06] Because she is sending out the texts.
June Diane Raphael [00:13:08] Yes.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:13:09] Is she sending them?
June Diane Raphael [00:13:10] She seems to have control over their technology.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:13:11] Wow. Okay. Whoa. And she is actually the lady in white who is being worshiped at the club constantly. So is it her club?
June Diane Raphael [00:13:21] Because that house didn’t make sense. I think it’s her club. I think it’s her app. And I think–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:13:25] Is this all a grand scheme?
June Diane Raphael [00:13:26] And she is making a killing.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:13:27] Is this all a grand scheme just to get– because you’re right. This movie wants to be an erotic thriller, a la Fatal Attraction or Basic Instinct or something. And there’s a little bit of Single White Female to it as well.
Paul Scheer [00:13:44] Very little at the end jammed in there.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:13:46] Is her whole plan just to do all these machinations just so that she can have Becca’s life? Because she’s in love with Becca?
Paul Scheer [00:13:55] Well, hold on. Because then you would also have to say that–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:13:57] What’s her goal?
Paul Scheer [00:13:59] Her goal would be like, if what you’re saying is true, June, because what you’re saying is things that happen that are true. But for this plan to have worked, she must have been like, “I really, I want an open relationship so much what I’m going to first do is make the club and the app. Then I’m going to bring it and introduce it to my husband years after we’ve been together.” So she’s doing that on the side, gets her husband on board, and then pretends to be like, “Oh my gosh, I found this app.” But the truth is, she doesn’t even really want to go to that club because she’s already got her mind on the person that she wants anyway.
June Diane Raphael [00:14:38] Well, I never know why they really needed to go to the club except for her to get collateral on Becca.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:14:47] Yes. They felt like the club was there only to damage them. They’d already opened up their marriages to each other. Also, correct me if I’m wrong. Having never been to a sex club, do you frequently go to a sex club, find a room to have sex in and then fall asleep at the sex club? Is that how it works? When you go and you fuck on a couch at a sex club, do you then go to bed?
June Diane Raphael [00:15:13] Listen, I believed I was like, “Oh, wow, this is so– what a perfect detail that this guy fucks and immediately falls asleep.” Like that to me lined up perfectly. But then I realized they’re all asleep which made me think Vulvania maybe drugged them?
Paul Scheer [00:15:28] I mean, she’s serving pretty strong Sex on the Beach and Harvey Wall Banger. By the way, the best detail the whole club was that they only serve, like, sexually– like, you can’t have a gin and tonic. You have to have, like, a blowjob.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:15:44] Also, this is a sex club with a max. A maximum of seven other people and upwards of ten mannequins wearing bondage gear. But there are multiple shots where the people in the background are a mixture of real people and mannequins.
Paul Scheer [00:15:59] Which is one of my favorite episodes.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:16:01] Which was chilling.
Paul Scheer [00:16:04] One of my favorite episodes of scare tactics, which June and I think we’ve talked about on the show, about mannequins.
June Diane Raphael [00:16:08] Best episode of television ever.
Paul Scheer [00:16:09] But I will also say there is a part of me that thought that the sex club could also be a vampire club because Vulnavia, when she brings them in, is acting like that opening scene in Blade. I was like, Are these vampires? Why is Vulnavia looking both ways?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:16:26] That would have been incredible. I agree. That would have been incredible if there was– Here’s the thing. If there was more to anything, this movie would have been good. What I kept misunderstanding was what is this movie about? And at the end of the day, the answer is nothing. There is no story to this movie. Events? Events keep happening.
Paul Scheer [00:16:47] The big story is “If you are an infertile man–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:16:51] Oh boy.
Paul Scheer [00:16:51] –you need to loosen up. Fuck your friend, and then your chances of getting your wife pregnant will go up. And that’s the moral. The moral is on some level–
June Diane Raphael [00:17:04] I think you’re right. I think that his sperm was–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:17:08] Responded to the competition?
Paul Scheer [00:17:10] Yeah.
June Diane Raphael [00:17:10] Yes, his sperm was not, and I don’t know the science to back this up, but I do think that’s the story we were being told. That because they were sort of like having sex by rote just to reproduce. They had no fire in it. And I think on some level, his sperm was responding to that.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:17:27] Yeah, yeah. My favorite was when they cut to the backyard grill. The two dudes in this movie never wear a shirt.
Paul Scheer [00:17:39] Ron is more guilty. Ron is like watching football at home without a shirt. Ron is never in a shirt.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:17:47] Never shirted.
June Diane Raphael [00:17:50] Did you see? Sorry to interrupt.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:17:51] No, go ahead.
June Diane Raphael [00:17:52] Did you see Ron’s tattoo?
Paul Scheer [00:17:54] How could you miss it, June?
June Diane Raphael [00:17:55] Okay, not that one. There’s another tattoo. There’s the big one, obviously. But then there’s a saying on his arm that simply says, “Out of Line.”
Jason Mantzoukas [00:18:13] What?
Paul Scheer [00:18:16] Open for Business. Outta line.
June Diane Raphael [00:18:18] Out of line.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:18:19] Incredible.
June Diane Raphael [00:18:20] And I was like, That’s definitely the actor’s tattoo.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:18:22] Oh, all of it is. Absolutely. Yes. I was fascinated by that. And he’s never wearing a shirt.
Paul Scheer [00:18:29] I wrote, “Put on a shirt, man.”.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:18:31] No way. I was like, thank God, they’re both topless. They’re both shirts off at the grill. And it starts with a close up of the meat on the grill, comes up to them, the two dudes just standing there. And Ron goes, “So my fertility test came back.”
Paul Scheer [00:18:46] It’s like one of those bad Viagra ads.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:18:48] Incredible. Yes. It it feels like this whole movie is this series of infomercials.
June Diane Raphael [00:18:55] Okay. So I had a really weird experience where Paul and I were watching Paul T. Goldman last night, which I love so much.
Paul Scheer [00:19:01] Jason Woliner’s new show. Amazing.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:19:04] Wild stuff.
June Diane Raphael [00:19:05] And I fell asleep while watching it. And then Paul had switched over to this movie. And so I was sort of in a fugue state where I couldn’t tell the difference between the reenactments of the movie that Paul T. Goldman is shooting and this film. Because there were a lot of similarities where I was like–
Paul Scheer [00:19:24] Oh, the dialog.
June Diane Raphael [00:19:25] The dialog. Like it feels familiar. Yeah, it was very distressing.
Paul Scheer [00:19:32] I mean, there are some moments here where, you know, when they first decide to open their marriage to their friends, they go over in a room that is the most stark, uncomfortable, unsexy room to have a foursome. And by the way, they don’t have a foursome.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:19:48] They wife swap kind of.
June Diane Raphael [00:19:53] This is the weird thing that I didn’t really understand, like to me the rules of their open marriage where we have to all be together, which I was like– I mean, honestly, to everyone, you know, to each their own. But I’m like, that’s a really specific experience. Like, I just didn’t understand why it wasn’t up for grabs, that they could each have their own experience, Like why– it’s an extra kink on a kink. It’s a hat on the hat to be like we all have to be in there.
Paul Scheer [00:20:24] Well, that’s part of it.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:20:26] There’s also a strange thing, which is like those are Mindy and Max’s rules, but Ron and Becca just adopt the exact same rules. There’s no conversation about what are our rules going to be for this open marriage? It’s just like, well, we’re going to just do– I guess we’re going to do Mindy and Max and that’s that, you know.
June Diane Raphael [00:20:44] Like, yeah, that’s kind of what we wanted to say is like, not that, you know, these Mindy and Max don’t seem like two people you’d want to have sex with, but it’s like, well, there are other people. If you decide you’re going to have to have an open marriage, expand your imaginations beyond this one couple.
Paul Scheer [00:21:01] Multiple times they make it clear to be like, “Hey, when we go to the sex club, we’re just there to watch. We’re not going to get involved with anybody else.” Now, everybody else in that club or you see people in that club, two men are against one woman. But these guys, I mean, part of me is like, come on, let’s get Ron and Max to kiss.
June Diane Raphael [00:21:20] I wanted that too.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:21:21] Oh, you want to ‘E Tu Mama También’ this.
June Diane Raphael [00:21:24] I did too.
Paul Scheer [00:21:25] At the end, I really thought that was going to be the thing. You guys have to fuck each other.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:21:30] You know how I knew that would never happen? It’s that nobody kissed in this movie until minute 22.
June Diane Raphael [00:21:35] I thought you were going to say because of the shoulder tattoos.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:21:38] This is the kind of movie that I would have found on cable in high school and been like, “Oh, shit, I’m going to watch this and I’m going to see some dirty stuff.” And I would have been crestfallen that there not only wasn’t dirty stuff, but it was boring. You know, like even the sex scenes were– I so much so that I wrote a number of times in my notes. “Is it possible this is a Christian” or a movie that is that is like secretly not– like there is no sex, there is no nudity, there is no cursing. It’s a very it’s a very chaste movie for something that has such an erotic theoretically storyline.
Paul Scheer [00:22:19] And can I also just add to that? This movie came out in 2017. There’s a tone here that feels–.
June Diane Raphael [00:22:26] Very 90s.
Paul Scheer [00:22:27] Well, 90s, I was going to say like a little like anti-gay.
June Diane Raphael [00:22:33] A little? Yeah. Dylan’s basically like, “All homosexuals are in open marriages.”
Paul Scheer [00:22:39] And he also says, “In gay land, we all fuck each other.”
June Diane Raphael [00:22:46] And then prances off to like a Lady Gaga concert. No, it was absolutely offensive.
Paul Scheer [00:22:50] And he’s like, “Yeah, in gay land, everyone fucks each other except if you’re ugly.” It’s like wow, Wow. All right.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:22:55] Here’s what I’ll say to the movie’s benefit. It’s clear that he’s in the best relationship in this movie.
Paul Scheer [00:23:03] Sure.
June Diane Raphael [00:23:03] Very, very true. And honestly, if I trust anyone to raise a child. It’s Dylan and the husband who we never heard speak.
Paul Scheer [00:23:14] When they cut to the husband, Dylan’s husband, my jaw dropped. I was like, “That’s him? Alright.”
June Diane Raphael [00:23:22] Why make him such a slob kabob? Like why?
Paul Scheer [00:23:28] He looked like he was a background for a biker movie.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:23:31] You know what? I’m not gonna shame Dylan for Dylan’s taste. I think their relationship seemed wonderful. I believe in them.
June Diane Raphael [00:23:36] I do, too, actually. Jason, I do too.
Paul Scheer [00:23:39] While we’re just talking about Dylan. Just want to reference that Dylan is, you know, the friend of our main character, Becca. And they work in a critical care unit. At one point, Ron calls her and says, “Hey, don’t work too hard.” And I thought to myself, she’s working in a critical care unit in a hospital. Like, work hard. Definitely put some time in.
June Diane Raphael [00:24:03] That’s something you say to someone on the factory line.
Paul Scheer [00:24:05] Yeah. Don’t work too hard.
June Diane Raphael [00:24:07] She really just seems to be working in the reception area.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:24:09] And he’s at home, watching the game, eating Doritos out of a glass bowl.
June Diane Raphael [00:24:16] Okay, you know what I did have? I did have the thought, though. I was like, you know, if you were about to embark on, like, a major sexual escapade with a new partner and this and that, like, the worst thing I would think, for a man is to have your back go out. And I wish they had explored that more. Like what? Because his back seemed to really be recovering.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:24:42] Oh, yeah. He’s been on workman’s comp. His workman’s comp ran out, so he’s already gone through all the months of workman’s comp and he’s still recovering.
Paul Scheer [00:24:53] But I need to break this down too, because he seems to fluctuate between being an industrial development construction worker and a literal construction worker because his injury seems like, “Oh yeah, my back is out from my construction work.” But then he’s making a bid to the mayor, which means like, okay, so you are on the line, but you also are in the trailer.
June Diane Raphael [00:25:17] Well, that’s very Marcus Lemonis of him.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:25:19] Yeah. You know, if you want if you want him, he’s the boss, you know, And he is 100% in charge.
June Diane Raphael [00:25:27] Yes.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:25:28] Yeah. No, I agree. Shirtless Ron is simultaneously just fixing the cabinet doors in the loft while also putting in bids for city contracts that the mayor signs off on.
Paul Scheer [00:25:43] That seems like a Cushman Wakefield, which is maybe an L.A. reference but that seems like a giant corporation to be like we got a permit to build the Staples Center.
June Diane Raphael [00:25:52] He’s a developer?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:25:53] No. Well, that’s what they’re saying. He’s basically saying I got the job you never have to work again in your life.
June Diane Raphael [00:25:59] But that’s why I think he’s so dumb, because I think essentially he got a job, you guys, to build a community center, which to me, I’m like, that’s not a highrise. That’s a one floor. Like, I see it as like a rec center type area, maybe a basketball court like that.
Paul Scheer [00:26:17] Indoor or outdoor gym?
June Diane Raphael [00:26:19] I think it’s both. I think it’s like an indoor-outdoor type of thing. But that’s not– he’s not building a bridge, he’s building a community center.
Paul Scheer [00:26:28] With city money.
June Diane Raphael [00:26:32] With a bathroom but that’s it.
Paul Scheer [00:26:34] A bathroom.
June Diane Raphael [00:26:37] Well okay yeah I think a bathroom I think a women’s bathroom or two bathrooms at most.
Paul Scheer [00:26:44] I mean they are in the city of Los angeles.
June Diane Raphael [00:26:46] Maybe a little snack area. That’s it.
Paul Scheer [00:26:47] I mean, the way that he’s talking about it and the way that he seems to really be rolling up his sleeves with the mayor, so much so that the mayor, when the mayor gets the text that outs him as– I guess I don’t know.
June Diane Raphael [00:27:00] I don’t think the mayor got that text. I think the mayor is also freaky as fuck.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:05] Yes.
All [00:27:11] [Indiscernible].
Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:11] So you’re telling me Ron is bidding– Ron who is unemployed or not unemployed, but on workman’s comp with a back injury is making city bids on a level that– okay this is absolute nonsense. I want the movie that’s about– that’s not about their open marriage. It’s about their business prospects. I want to know what is Max up to? What is he selling on Rodeo Drive and what is Ron building?
June Diane Raphael [00:27:39] So like, by the way, what I would be if I was Ron, I would be like, Max, please stop offering your wife to fuck me. Like, I’d rather build your next project.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:51] Yes.
June Diane Raphael [00:27:52] And collaborate.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:54] Again. White Lotus season two. White Lotus season two. I’m not kidding. It’s so weird.
Paul Scheer [00:28:00] But here’s the thing. We got to watch that June. But here’s the thing.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:28:05] When you watch it, literally your minds are going to explode at how much overlap there is. It’s so funny.
Paul Scheer [00:28:11] Okay. I just want to get to this detail. The mayor fires him for going to a–.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:28:20] Sex spot.
June Diane Raphael [00:28:20] Underground sex club.
Paul Scheer [00:28:22] I mean, but is that illegal? Like what?
June Diane Raphael [00:28:26] Well I had that question too. Are sex clubs illegal? Because the way that Vulvania is looking around, like you said, Paul, it’s as though like the cops are coming. It’s as though, like, they’re going to get caught. But I’m like, are sex– Like, you can–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:28:42] I don’t think there’s anything that like, it’s also, you know what, the email blast or text blast that gets sent out is only to the people in the group. It’s not like it was reported in the media. Like “City Contractor Caught in Sex Scandal”.
June Diane Raphael [00:28:57] So wait, so you’re saying. Okay, so are we to understand that–
Paul Scheer [00:29:02] In LA sex clubs are illegal.
June Diane Raphael [00:29:03] Are illegal?
Paul Scheer [00:29:04] No, legal.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:29:05] Yeah.
June Diane Raphael [00:29:06] Legal.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:29:07] Are legal. Yeah.
June Diane Raphael [00:29:08] Interesting. Okay. Good to know.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:29:12] And here’s our announcement that we are opening one. A lot of people wonder why we don’t have more merch. If you’ve gotten the Drop Dead Fred vinyl, come hear it at our sex club.
June Diane Raphael [00:29:22] When each of those four show up is, Vulvania like giving them a QR code to download the app. Like, are they– how did they get how did they get–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:29:32] And is Vulvania the only employee period? For real. And she’s taking her time.
June Diane Raphael [00:29:40] I think Mindy’s in cahoots with her.
Paul Scheer [00:29:43] Well, Mindy who we– Look, we reveal at the end that Mindy is the woman in the white peacock. Like everyone in this club is fully out and about. But then there’s one woman that’s in a like Eyes Wide Shut, feathery bird mask. And we don’t know who that is. It’s odd that she’s the only one with the mask on. But also she seems to be the mascot.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:05] There are some background people wearing masks. There are some people in the background wearing masks. And a number of the mannequins are also wearing masks. And I’m not kidding.
June Diane Raphael [00:30:14] Okay, so when you say there are mannequins there. Are we supposed to think they’re people because they couldn’t get extras? Are they actual mannequins?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:21] I don’t know. But I believe maybe a little of both. Because, like, in wide shots, it’s clear that it looks more crowded, But then in some shots, right over someone’s shoulder is a clear mannequin in, like, a sexy getup.
June Diane Raphael [00:30:36] I need to see this is again.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:38] It is fucked up.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:41] The wicker baby carriage is maybe the greatest prop. That and the flea market clock.
Paul Scheer [00:30:47] The wicker baby carriage is so–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:49] That is straight from a props– that is straight from a lifetime movie that was set in the olden days.
Paul Scheer [00:30:55] That’s like from the the Banshees of Inishmore.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:31:02] It’s like an Ann of Green Gables.
June Diane Raphael [00:31:06] My favorite movie.
Paul Scheer [00:31:08] But this whole movie is like, it feels like used parts because even when the two women, the ladies who lunch go to speak, they use an exterior of a barbecue restaurant. Like, I couldn’t think of a worse place to go talk about your–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:31:24] Oh boy wouldnt like– I would love if they were just having ribs while talking about their open marriage.
Paul Scheer [00:31:28] It’s like, come on.
June Diane Raphael [00:31:29] Here’s what’s really weird, though. I was trying to figure out. So Mindy, she has a storyline throughout, which is that she’s trying to lose weight. Now, by the end–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:31:42] Is that a character want, June? When you’re working on a character and you want to find that character.
June Diane Raphael [00:31:47] This is what I couldn’t understand. It’s like she wants to lose weight to look like Becca, but she is thinner than Becca. So it was very strange.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:32:00] The single white female of it didn’t make any sense because Mindy is the high status character. So it was confusing why she was wanting to be Becca, who’s in her own life, struggling and trying to figure out with fertility, with money, with her marriage, all of these things. So I’m not sure why Mindy was obsessed with her, other than it was predicated on college.
June Diane Raphael [00:32:28] Yeah, but maybe it’s because she was so normal.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:32:31] I could have used a flashback.
June Diane Raphael [00:32:32] I would have loved to have known more about Mindy.
Paul Scheer [00:32:35] But here’s the thing. It didn’t seem like she wanted to have her life. She just wanted to fuck her husband. Like, it wasn’t like when she goes, “I’m your biggest fan.”
June Diane Raphael [00:32:44] She only wanted to fuck her husband, Paul, because that’s what Mindy does.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:32:48] No, that’s what Becca does.
June Diane Raphael [00:32:49] I’m sorry, that’s what Becca does.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:32:50] That’s why she’s sending Becca the flowers. That’s why she’s obsessed with Becca. They all think she’s obsessed with Ron, but she’s obsessed with Becca.
Paul Scheer [00:32:59] But that’s my question. But beyond fucking Becca’s husband, what else is there? I mean, because the only thing that we get is this.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:33:09] Who’s the protagonist? Who’s this movie about? Is the movie about Becca or no? I don’t think it is.
Paul Scheer [00:33:22] It must be Ron. It’s Ron’s story, because we’re introduced to Ron with a couple of problems. Ron’s got a bad back. Ron doesn’t have enough money. Ron has little fertility issues. Yeah. So, like, Ron’s girlfriend wife leaves him. Like, all the issues really are Ron’s problems.
June Diane Raphael [00:33:41] I disagree. I feel like we’ve got Becca, who’s got an out of work fiancee, wants to have kids, is worried about her finances, is working overtime at the hospital/doctor’s offices. It seems like she has way more problems.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:03] And sadly, it’s about neither of them. Like, that’s the movie’s biggest problem is it like– we realize that Mindy is the antagonist and that her attention seems to be on both of them. But the movie has no real arc.
June Diane Raphael [00:34:16] Well, here’s the weird part, though. Like if you think about Ron and Becca before this proposition, I actually, I do agree with the movie on this one part piece, which is, I think, that Ron and Becca will be happier having gone through this. I don’t think they would have made it at all had they not.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:41] Well, also, I think they’re doomed.
June Diane Raphael [00:34:43] I don’t know, Jason. I do think there’s a lot of trauma bonding.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:46] You think this brings them together?
June Diane Raphael [00:34:47] I do. I don’t think the open marriage did. But I think the trauma– by the way, my favorite part of the whole movie was when Ron shook the hand of the police officer before he left.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:59] I love that that’s it. Like the police just walk out. You don’t have to come. You don’t have to come to the station. Nope.
Paul Scheer [00:35:08] Hey, we got a murder in here? We got a report of a murder in here. Okay. See you later.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:35:12] Becca. Becca, in one night, murders her best friend with a flea market clock, then finds out her husband is the father of her baby. Like, by the way, what the fuck is happening?
Paul Scheer [00:35:24] I will also say that Mindy shoots that gun multiple times in that apartment. I mean, that loft.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:35:28] We saw that exterior. There’s no windows. It’s soundproof.
June Diane Raphael [00:35:32] And also like gunshots are no thing there.
Paul Scheer [00:35:36] You might be right that that might be the best part of Ron’s performance. I’m going to say the best part of Mindy’s performance was the party at the end of the of the movie before she, you know, reveals herself to be the killer. And she turns to her audience, a crowd of people, and goes, “Let them eat cake.” And everyone’s like “Yay!” It wouldn’t be– like it was so– she’s not engaging them. No one’s looking at her. She just says, let them eat cake. And everyone’s like, on board. It’s not a sex party. It’s nothing. What control does she have over them?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:36:12] And I felt like that party, too, because Becca is wearing that gold dress. They’re both in these gold, sparkly dresses that Mindy has bought for both of them. And then it’s Mindy’s birthday, but it felt like that scene was going to build to something, and it just doesn’t. Nothing ends up happening at the birthday.
June Diane Raphael [00:36:33] I was sure that dress was going to lead us somewhere and it didn’t.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:36:35] That that would be significant. It was seeded earlier. So here we are. We’re finally at the dress scene. And nothing happened.
June Diane Raphael [00:36:41] Nothing.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:36:42] I couldn’t figure any of the motivation out.
June Diane Raphael [00:36:45] There’s just something very strange about these people, like even Becca, who I connected the most to Becca and her story. I’m still not sure if Becca did have– Do you think she had unprotected sex with Max?
Paul Scheer [00:36:59] Yes.
June Diane Raphael [00:36:59] She definitely did?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:37:00] Well, that was Becca’s plan. Becca’s plan–
Paul Scheer [00:37:04] Yeah, this is the sad part.
June Diane Raphael [00:37:06] I was zoned out here. This is what I didn’t pick up on. She planned to get pregnant with this baby?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:37:11] She planned the open marriage. The entire open marriage thing so she could get pregnant. So she told Max–.
June Diane Raphael [00:37:18] Even before she knew that he had..
Jason Mantzoukas [00:37:20] Correct.
June Diane Raphael [00:37:20] That she had– oh, wow.
Paul Scheer [00:37:23] Because when you hear it, like, listen, when she doe announce.
June Diane Raphael [00:37:26] Now I’m upside down.
Paul Scheer [00:37:26] When she announces her pregnancy in the sex club.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:37:29] To Max. To Max.
Paul Scheer [00:37:31] To Max, that’s when I was like, Oh!
Movie Audio [00:37:33] I came here to tell you it’s over.
Movie Audio [00:37:37] Just because Ron called it off?
Movie Audio [00:37:38] No, because I’m calling it off.
Movie Audio [00:37:42] The four of us might be off, but not me and you. Remember this, this was your idea.
Movie Audio [00:37:47] This wasn’t about you and me, Max. We don’t have to do this anymore. I’m pregnant.
Movie Audio [00:38:02] That’s what you wanted, isn’t it?
Movie Audio [00:38:03] Yeah, of course.
Paul Scheer [00:38:05] So she was mad at–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:38:08] I guess it is her movie because she’s got the motive. She’s got the motivation behind it. The machinations are hers.
June Diane Raphael [00:38:17] I can’t believe that. Okay, so she. Oh, wow. So it is pretty wild then that it is Ron’s baby.
Paul Scheer [00:38:28] But she didn’t know that Ron had a 1% chance of not being able to conceive when she did have unprotected sex. She just wanted to get checked out because she’s been popping those fertility pills.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:38:38] That guy is maybe more of a villain than Mindy?
Paul Scheer [00:38:42] By the way what are those pills?
June Diane Raphael [00:38:43] I don’t know, but if you haven’t had sex in three months, why are you taking these supplements?
Paul Scheer [00:38:50] Right.
June Diane Raphael [00:38:51] You’re not doing the one thing you need to do.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:38:53] He’s also pushing them on her. He’s really pushing those prenatals is on her. He’s like, take the pills. Take the pills.
Paul Scheer [00:38:59] But if they’re not fucking, they can’t do anything.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:39:01] Well, he wants to fuck, but she’s kind of shrugging it off, isn’t she? In the beginning.
June Diane Raphael [00:39:06] In the very beginning, she is.
Paul Scheer [00:39:07] She’s shrugging off the vitamin eating because she’s like, I think that she’s–
June Diane Raphael [00:39:11] I thought maybe she was worried about his back.
Paul Scheer [00:39:14] I thought his back was out from fucking too much because they wanted to get pregnant.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:39:19] That’s workman’s comp.
Paul Scheer [00:39:21] Yeah. I mean, there you go. So, wait, now, was Max in on this plan? I mean, he was right?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:39:27] Yes. And that’s why–
June Diane Raphael [00:39:30] Oh god, I missed a lot of this movie. Max was in on getting her pregnant? How did I miss this?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:39:36] When Max meets Becca at the club and they have their talk, what’s revealed in that scene is that Becca’s plan has worked. She hatched a plan for Max to suggest that they have an open marriage with them so that she can fuck Max. So that she can get pregnant, and she says to him, I’m pregnant. So that means this all needs to stop. And he says, “Well, congratulations, your plan worked, blah, blah, blah.” But he’s kind of upset because now it appears he’s fallen for her, just like everybody else in the movie is in love with Becca? Question Mark.
June Diane Raphael [00:40:15] Yeah. I mean, how could you not be?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:40:18] I would also like the readers to source if they could. Has this gym been used in other Lifetime movies?
Paul Scheer [00:40:25] Oh, this gym. Which is kind of like, it feels like it’s trying so hard. Like, I feel like this was also repurposed in a movie where a kid did drugs for the first time. It’s like graffiti, but it’s like safe graffiti. And it’s they’re in there working out, but they’re also talking about sex.
June Diane Raphael [00:40:41] I also thought that there was going to be something that was going on between a random gym goer and Mindy because there was a real connection in cutting to him.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:40:53] Cause she shows up at the gym. And why not have the gym people also come to Club Caligula? But I mean, I guess probably she pay more actors.
Paul Scheer [00:41:03] She only wants to fuck Ron.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:41:04] I guess so.
Paul Scheer [00:41:05] She only wants to fuck Ron. That’s it.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:41:06] I think she wants to fuck Becca. She starts to start making passes at Becca though. Slight kisses and innuendo and it felt again, that’s you’re not anti-gay, but like, I felt like that’s as gay as it was able to go for them. The hint of it.
Paul Scheer [00:41:29] They would be side by side because that scene was calling for the two of them to kiss. Not not Ron and Max, but Becca and Mindy, because like, when she gets in her face like that. But then you reveal that the plan is they’re just going to fuck each other’s husbands literally side by side. Which they have been doing.
June Diane Raphael [00:41:50] Yeah, but not side by side.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:41:52] And not while Mindy holds a gun.
June Diane Raphael [00:41:54] Yeah. So that’s different. Those are the two different factors. Side by side. And the element of, like, you know, the stakes of someone shooting someone.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:42:06] The gunplay in this movie is wildly irresponsible and mirrors in a lot of ways the same gunplay that was done in that loft in the photographer movie.
June Diane Raphael [00:42:16] That’s right.
Paul Scheer [00:42:17] Yeah.
June Diane Raphael [00:42:18] Here’s what I want to talk about. If you’re heading to your friend’s house to go to, like, a fuck night where all of you are going to fuck each other. First of all, I wouldn’t want to sleep over. It’s like, let’s go back to our–
Paul Scheer [00:42:33] They packed a bag.
June Diane Raphael [00:42:34] They were ready to sleep over. And I know they initially said, like, “Do you want to sleepover?”, that’s what I want to talk about. In what world? First of all, I don’t even think I’d ever feel comfortable getting into someone else’s bath. Ever.
Paul Scheer [00:42:47] Yeah.
June Diane Raphael [00:42:48] Even if, like I just don’t think that a bath to me is– and I love baths, but that’s, like, so intimate. And the fact that Becca, upon waking up, gets into a bubble batt her friend’s house.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:43:05] A morning bubble bath.
June Diane Raphael [00:43:07] A morning– now, I do know one woman in my life who takes a bath every morning.
Paul Scheer [00:43:12] Oh, wow.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:43:13] What?
June Diane Raphael [00:43:14] Instead of a shower. She’s a makeup artist that we probably have all worked with lovely person, and she has super early call times. Sometimes she’s on set at like 4:50am, but she has said that she can’t wake up, she can’t get her day going unless she sits in a bath and she bathes herself in there.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:43:33] Wow.
June Diane Raphael [00:43:34] And I do think a lot of women who don’t want their hair to get wet.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:43:38] Okay?
June Diane Raphael [00:43:38] Do bathe quite a bit.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:43:41] I understand. I guess I understand not wanting your hair to get wet. I would like the listeners to weigh in on how often are you bathing versus showering. I will say I could not tell you the last time I took a bath. Period.
June Diane Raphael [00:43:54] No, you’re both missing out. I’m always trying to get Paul in the bath. He’s never interested, but I love taking a bath. But I also don’t know about taking a bath to bathe.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:44:06] No, you got to take a shower afterwards.
Paul Scheer [00:44:09] To relax.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:44:10] You’re sitting in a soup of your own stink.
Paul Scheer [00:44:12] You’re treating a bath like a hot tub, right Junie?
June Diane Raphael [00:44:15] Pretty much, Yeah. That’s like a self-care, you know, putting your stuff in.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:44:19] It’s a lot more about relaxing.
June Diane Raphael [00:44:20] Shaving or something, but it’s. Yeah, it’s relaxing.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:44:22] It’s a lot more about relaxing than it is like cleaning up like a shower.
June Diane Raphael [00:44:26] Now, have I been on a zoom call or two in the bath?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:44:29] Oh, boy.
June Diane Raphael [00:44:30] Off camera. Yeah, I have.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:44:34] How many episodes of this podcast have we recorded with you in a bath. That we just don’t know.
June Diane Raphael [00:44:39] I’ve definitely watched a few movies.
Paul Scheer [00:44:41] Yeah, but that’s different.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:44:41] I get that.
Paul Scheer [00:44:43] I’ll tell you this much, that going over there. That house was in many respects very unfurnished. They probably did just move in, but they did put like– again, like what Jason said, they found old props, like a giant cattle horn in the middle of this living room. This fuck living room. The couch has no carpeting, no nothing. It was so empty and barren. It was, like, so hard to even find places to fuck in there. And then the only thing that they make the whole piece about before they have sex, before they get in the bath and not even together is, you know, Becca looks at a painting and she goes, “Oh, is this new?” And he’s like, “You got a good eye.” She doesn’t have a good eye. She just recognized– like a good eye is “Oh, I love the strokes here. It looks like this or that. That’s a good eye. She’s like, you remembered the place and you now seen a new thing. It’s not a good eye.
June Diane Raphael [00:45:38] Well, you know what’s so crazy about that? The beginning scene? Because, you know, it is pretty wild to have to start off like an orgy situation like that. But I’m like the lighting was so bright. It’s like they had every light on in that living room.
Paul Scheer [00:45:55] Yeah, they were not creating a vibe.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:46:00] No candles, no wine. And it also felt like and I couldn’t figure out why they did this because I felt like the movie wanted you to believe in the inherent sexiness of this indecent proposal. Kind of Oo la la. Like titillating. We’re going to have an open marriage. And when they hard cut to the the couples at the house for the first time, it’s awkward. It’s creepy, it’s silent. It’s so silent, bright and uncomfortable. And the movie’s telling us, this is bad. This is bad behavior. I feel like the movie is is actually very judgmental. Yeah. I feel like it’s very judgmental about open marriage. I feel like the movie is anti open marriage, is anti openness. I feel like the movie is a cautionary tale about this stuff because what happens is someone’s going to try and murder you.
June Diane Raphael [00:46:56] Well, yeah, I think it’s–.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:46:58] It’s conservative.
Paul Scheer [00:47:02] But here’s the other thing. The better version of this movie ultimately is two couples who are at their wits end or something’s not going well for them. And they both decide, why don’t we have an open marriage? But we set up the other couple as being like, now we have an open marriage and now there’s nothing to fight about. But they seem as unknowledgeable about it as our main characters, it’s like they’re not leading them in any way. They’re just kind of like it just seems–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:47:33] Listen, we’ve all watched Real Sex. We know how this works.
Paul Scheer [00:47:37] Yeah.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:47:37] You know, like, none of the conversations make sense. None. Nobody seems like they really want to be doing this. Like, they all seem like almost unwilling participants.
June Diane Raphael [00:47:51] Yeah.
Paul Scheer [00:47:52] There’s a line that kind of encapsulated it for me was at one point when they’re talking the two women, she says, you know, “Oh, I would never cheat.” And you’re like, oh, because I love my husband. She goes, “No, I would never cheat because of my prenup.” And it’s like, oh, like, oh, like that. That really, like, opened it up for me. It was like, oh, so you don’t.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:48:19] So the workaround is we’re not cheating. We’re having sex together so that the prenup is not triggered. Right? So, yeah, that’s the way the rules. The rules for Mindy and Max are based on their actual life and marriage. But then when applied to Becca and Ron are not applicable, like they don’t have a prenup. They can play by rules that they create that are better for them as both individuals and as a married couple through open and honest communication, something that nobody in this movie is interested in having. Except for Vulvania.
Paul Scheer [00:49:00] Well, Vulvania just speaks in, like, weird– Vulvania’s a simp to wordplay.
June Diane Raphael [00:49:05] Well, here’s the weird thing, though, is, like, I do think that for Ron and Becca, like, they can’t have a baby unless they’re having sex. And when we meet them, they’re not having sex. So this does sort of ignite them. And so they’re able to have a baby because of it. But ultimately, like, there’s nothing. What’s so weird about this movie is like, it doesn’t present that first scene, that hard cut into that bright ass living room doesn’t present a world in which to us, the viewer, in which you could understand getting sucked into this. You could understand like being a regular person who’s titillated by this idea and fantasy. And it’s just so clear that this is uncomfortable and that none of us would ever want to be in that living room.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:50:01] Exactly. That’s how I mean, it’s conservative. Like, none of it is attractive. It’s just forcing these people through the machinations of this. And then the results are deadly. Like the results are murderous.
Paul Scheer [00:50:16] If you go to that sex club, you will be found out and you will lose your livelihood. And like, it was also like there are penalties for everything.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:50:23] If you open yourself up to this kind of thing. Even if you consent to it, you will be punished. Like any kind of divergent sexual needs, wants, or anything you you participate in, you will be somehow punished for.
Paul Scheer [00:50:36] Do they ever have fun in this world? That was my big takeaway.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:50:41] Well that’s the thing is, like I think Vulvania and the mannequins are the only people having fun in this world.
June Diane Raphael [00:50:46] I mean, honestly, the most fun they seem to have is when they’re asleep, like snuggling up to these other people in separate rooms.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:50:56] But for a movie that’s so much about sex, or when they fall asleep in the sex club, that’s so much about sex. After the first scene in which Max and Mindy tell them about open relationship, open marriage, etc., etc., and Becca and Ron go home. And they’re so charged up from hearing about it, they end up having sex. Right? And they haven’t had sex in a while. And the sex scene’s final moment, the cumshot of their sex scene is just her bra landing on the floor.
Paul Scheer [00:51:29] Oh, that bra landing straight up. (swoons)
Jason Mantzoukas [00:51:32] Slo mo landing on the– that’s as hot as it gets is a bra hitting the– not anybody’s body– is a bra hitting the floor. It’s almost like can you imagine how hot this is?
Paul Scheer [00:51:43] But I also feel like that bra and I’m not knocking this at all after I’ve taken a horrible takedown on curly hair was–
June Diane Raphael [00:51:51] Really horrible Paul. I agree with Molly. I thought her hair was beautiful.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:51:57] Loved it.
Paul Scheer [00:51:57] I liked her better with the straight hair, but I don’t think–
Jason Mantzoukas [00:52:01] Hashtag. Give me those curls, baby!
June Diane Raphael [00:52:03] Wow, Paul.
Paul Scheer [00:52:03] But I don’t. I don’t think anything less of her.
June Diane Raphael [00:52:07] Listen, it’s a personal preference.
Paul Scheer [00:52:08] By the way, certain people, I think, look better with curly hair. I’m just saying, if she was to ask me, what do you prefer? And we were having a casual conversation around the pool with red wine in the afternoon, as one does. Red wine in an afternoon, outdoor, a hot day is what I always like to drink out.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:52:23] Out in the hot sun with an absolutely roasting glass of hot red wine. I’m sorry.
June Diane Raphael [00:52:31] Could you microwave my cabernet?
Jason Mantzoukas [00:52:34] I love it. It’s like, put an ice cube in their white wine. I would love it if someone was like, I’m so sorry. Could you take this Pinot Noir and just nuke it for 50 seconds in the microwave for me?
Paul Scheer [00:52:49] Boy, oh, boy, This movie. This movie. I just want to play one more time the clip of Mindy’s reveal, because this reveal is, I think, you know, we talked a lot.
June Diane Raphael [00:53:01] I thought Mindy was amazing in this.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:53:02] Incredible.
June Diane Raphael [00:53:03] Incredible.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:53:04] The real, real villain. A real villain turn.
Movie Audio [00:53:09] Wait, you’re the one who put ourr pictures on the cover of your app?
Movie Audio [00:53:12] Guilty as charged.
Movie Audio [00:53:13] Why would you do that to Ron? He lost his job over it. This thing you’ve got for Ron has got to stop right now.
Movie Audio [00:53:22] You think that all of this is about Ron?
Movie Audio [00:53:26] Yes, sweetheart, you’re obsessed.
Movie Audio [00:53:30] You’re damn right I’m obsessed. But not with Ron. I’m your secret admirer.
June Diane Raphael [00:53:43] When she says, “I’m your secret admirer.”
Jason Mantzoukas [00:53:43] Incredible.
June Diane Raphael [00:53:44] Incredible.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:53:45] Incredible.
June Diane Raphael [00:53:47] Genuinely spooky and committed.
June Diane Raphael [00:53:49] Again why? Why? What’s the story? What is Mindy’s story?
Paul Scheer [00:53:54] We don’t know.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:53:55] Why is this happening?
June Diane Raphael [00:53:58] We won’t ever know, Jason.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:54:00] I know, but yeah.
June Diane Raphael [00:54:01] I think that Mindy is sort of like a demented person. And there is something very basic about Becca and this part of Mindy I could understand that. Like, sometimes I see, you know, wine moms and sort of your basic women on Instagram or whatever, and there’s sort of a fascination with their lives. And I think because Becca is so bland.
Paul Scheer [00:54:29] Right.
June Diane Raphael [00:54:30] And is so normal there was sort of a fascination with her.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:54:35] I understand that. But I think I’m going to say that the movie is arguing again, I will say a very conservative agenda, which is that anybody who wants you to open up your marriage to have sex out of your marriage, anybody who wants that kind of wildness, must be also capable of murder. They are a bad person who are there trying to destroy your life. And the only way that you can succeed is to kill that person. And your reward will be that your husband’s cum works.
June Diane Raphael [00:55:13] Listen, I do think that– I’m sorry. I will say this. I’ve never seen– I’ve known several people who have opened up their relationships, not necessarily marriages, but relationships. I’ve never seen it work out well.
Paul Scheer [00:55:24] It’s never going to work out well.
June Diane Raphael [00:55:25] Now, this is the thing, though. It’s like that data is also hard because it’s like most relationships don’t work out. So I think it’s very challenging to do. And to me, one out of four people who are open to open marriage is becoming a murderer is. I actually thought that I was conservative.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:55:44] But that’s what I think it is conservative in the other way. You know, I mean, like I think the movie is espousing to its Lifetime mom audience conservative values which is, these people are dangerous. These people who have these ideas are dangerous. They’re bad. They don’t just want to fuck you. They want to kill you. They want your life. They want your normal life.
Paul Scheer [00:56:11] Sexual vampires.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:56:12] They are bad people.
Paul Scheer [00:56:14] They want you to stay in a committed relationship and having babies and having the man be the primary breadwinner. Goddamn it, this movie is about that.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:56:25] And also everyone is jacked. Everyone in the movie is fucking jacked. Everybody in this movie looked great all the time.
Paul Scheer [00:56:34] Amazing.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:56:34] They are always at peak physical, like they must have done 50 push ups, right– or sit ups right before each take. Everybody is ready to go. Even when Mindy is pointing a gun at them and forcing them all to fuck at the end of the movie, the guys are like– Their fucking, their chests and abs are popping. They are jacked.
June Diane Raphael [00:56:59] Seeing Ron sit on the couch like eating Doritos and eating pizza. I’m like, no, no, I’m so sorry you don’t have that body and put like any bit of processed anything into it.
Paul Scheer [00:57:10] That’s why he didn’t question the prop person when they brought over a bowl of Doritos. He’s like, “Oh, yes, that’s how people would eat a Dorito.” They would measure out. I could have one fourth of a cup of Doritos while I watch my football game while I drink my gluten free beer.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:57:25] That is how somebody who’s in that good shape would eat. They would be like, “I can have seven Doritos a night.”
June Diane Raphael [00:57:33] Oh God, it’s so sad. Like, as much as I admire that type of physical discipline, I’m just like, what a way to live.
Paul Scheer [00:57:41] What a way to live. But you know what? Obviously we have opinions about this movie, but there are people out there with a different opinion. It is now time for second opinions.
Second Opinions Intro Song [00:57:54] [Music]
Paul Scheer [00:58:15] Obviously, it’s a Lifetime movie. Not many reviews out there. The average rating is about three out of five. There’s only 26 reviews. Like I said, 32% are five star reviews. And here, we’ll just jump right into it. This one was from Rose Sharber. And Rose writes, “I love this. Please put it out on DVD to buy. Need to make more. Five stars.”
Jason Mantzoukas [00:58:44] I agree. I’d love. I’d love another. I’d love a continuation of this.
Paul Scheer [00:58:49] Ready to go. The Real T-Bone writes on August 30th, 2022, “Fun plot, check. Fun cast, check. We need more movies like this. Five stars.” I am on Letterbox. I love Letterbox. It’s like a social media for film watchers. And Letterbox, this is from Cbody. And Cbody goes, “I said I’d give it five stars if he fixes the cabinet door. And he did. So five stars.” And there you go. Those are some five star reviews from Open Marriage. But I want to give you some details about this movie. This movie was written by Jason Byers. Jason Byers wrote Bad Nanny and The Tryst, a.k.a The husband, the Wife and Their Lover. Those are his two latest films that both came out in 2022.
Jason Mantzoukas [00:59:42] Not to be confused with the Peter Greenaway movie, The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover, which is truly a very erotic movie.
Paul Scheer [00:59:50] And talking about erotic films, Sam Irvin, the director, was a producer on Gods and Monsters. Yes, that Gods and Monsters with Brendan Fraser. Great movie. But then directed movies like Mile High Escorts. Check into Christmas. Well, that doesn’t seem like a sexy one.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:00:09] I love that you started saying that title in a sexy way and then bailed when you got to Christmas.
Paul Scheer [01:00:14] I thought they were all gonna be sexy.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:00:15] Check into, ope, Christmas.
Paul Scheer [01:00:18] Engaged to a Psycho and Guilty as Charged.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:00:22] Engaged to a Psycho. Oh, my God.
Paul Scheer [01:00:25] It was also shot under the working title of To Have and To Kill. So there you go. This movie was before it became Open Marriage. And the tagline for this movie with a 69% rating on Rotten Tomatoes was “Some relationships shouldn’t be shared.” Oh. There it is. I mean, can’t get any better than that.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:00:55] A cautionary tale. That’s again, some relationships shouldn’t be shared is again, it’s a commentary on open marriages in a negative way. It’s saying you shouldn’t do this. Marriage is between two people, period. If you open it up, you will get shot or conked in the head by a flea market clock. Like the movie is decidedly anti-open.
Paul Scheer [01:01:20] And when she does hit her with that flea market clock, there’s a moment where she doesn’t seem at all injured from a hit.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:01:28] Holy shit. That was so funny. Mindy is like “Wait, what?”.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:01:32] She raises the gun. And at that point, I’m like, hit her again, hitter again.
June Diane Raphael [01:01:35] Hit her again.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:01:36] Somebody grab the gun.
Paul Scheer [01:01:39] Yes.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:01:39] Everybody just sits there watching her kind of woosley hold her head and looking confused, like, “Did someone just conk me in the head?”
Paul Scheer [01:01:48] Yeah we’re trying to kill you, you psycho. Because what’s the end game of that? They all fuck. And then what would have happened?
Jason Mantzoukas [01:01:54] Yeah. Yeah. What? What is Mindy’s plan? In these of ther movies. Fatal attractions and Single White Females. I get what the plan is. What is Mindy’s plan? What is her character want? And that is what I’m struggling with.
Paul Scheer [01:02:10] I totally agree.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:02:13] Everything else makes total sense.
Paul Scheer [01:02:14] And the movie works out perfectly. Would you recommend watching this movie? I definitely would.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:02:19] I don’t know. I kept waiting. I kept wanting it to tip into a movie I wanted to be watching. It was fun, but I kept wanting it to be a little bit more itself. But when you said Lifetime, I understood why it wouldn’t.
Paul Scheer [01:02:32] Let me tell you one thing, too. And I want to hear June what you think about this. But I say, like, I watched half of this movie at night and half during the day. When I watched it at night, it felt sexy. When I watch it during the day, I felt sad. And there is a little interesting. I was like, Ooh. And then I watch in the morning is like, Oh. Huh. It was a different vibe going on in the morning watching this.
June Diane Raphael [01:02:55] I mean, obviously I watched it in the sauna. I did not find this movie to be sexy.
Paul Scheer [01:03:03] Okay.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:03:03] No, not at all. And boy, did I want it to be. I wanted it to be like a Red Shoe Diaries entry with, like, Duchovny.
Paul Scheer [01:03:12] I mean, so, June, not a recommendation, huh?
June Diane Raphael [01:03:15] No, not a recommendation.
Paul Scheer [01:03:17] There we go.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:03:18] Not. Not for me either.
Paul Scheer [01:03:19] Only me. Jason, June, before we go, is there anything you want to talk about? Anything you want to plug, Anything you want to tell the good people out there to watch, do, listen to?
Jason Mantzoukas [01:03:29] I’ll throw out Star Trek: Prodigy everybody.
Paul Scheer [01:03:31] Jason’s great in that.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:03:32] Just finished our season. It’s a terrific show. Please watch.
June Diane Raphael [01:03:35] I am watching– the only thing I’ll say I’m watching that I’m really enjoying this Paul T. Goldman, Jason Woliner’s show on Peacock.
Paul Scheer [01:03:41] And he is a guest on our Last Looks. So you’ll hear from Jason about that. If you’ve not watched it, it’s really great. The short pitch is it’s a true crime story, a parody of a true crime story, a documentary, a documentary about a documentary and kind of a launch of a super hero.
Jason Mantzoukas [01:03:58] I would say just watch it. It’s so interesting. And the discovery of having not known anything about it. I have been so enjoying it. I will also shout out and I have no involvement in it. But I’m loving the show High School, the Tegan and Sara story that Clea DuVall has been making at FreeVee. It is fantastic and deserves a much bigger audience than it’s getting. So please get out there and watch.
Paul Scheer [01:04:26] And also just shout out that Rob Huebel and I hosted this thing called Celebrity Yard Sale. We did over two nights here in Los Angeles, a live show where celebrities came and sold their shit. And we had great people on the show. You can check that out on my YouTube page. People like Nicole Byer, Carl Tart, Kumail Nanjiani, Ben Lee did a musical performance Octso Acosta came on. So many people I’m forgetting all the people that we had. So definitely check that out. Where? On my YouTube page, there you go. You can watch the whole thing. And a big thank you to our amazing team, our producers, Scott Sonne, Molly Reynolds, our engineer, Alex Gonzalez, and our movie picking producer Avril Haley, and our publisher, July Diaz. We will be back with more. How Did This Get Made next week for Last Looks. Bye for now.
December 7, 2023
It’s a super-sized Last Looks! Paul and Jason chat about all the TV, movies, comic books, and podcasts that they’re currently loving.