EP. 224 — Sasheer Has Entered Her Gluten Free Era with Franchesca Ramsey & De’Lon Grant

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Sasheer [00:01:56] J.E.L.L.O. When’s the last time you had Jell-O?

Nicole [00:01:58] It’s in my refrigerator currently.

Sasheer [00:02:00] What? Whoa. I really wasn’t expecting that response.

Nicole [00:02:04] I haven’t eaten nary a bite. But I did buy gelatin as a snack.

Sasheer [00:02:12] In the cups?

Nicole [00:02:14] In the cups where you peel back the little top and the Jell-O is just shaken up in there.

Sasheer [00:02:19] Which flavor did you get?

Nicole [00:02:21] It’s either strawberry or cherry. It’s strawberry because cherry is a little darker. This is a bright, scary red.

Sasheer [00:02:30] Why is it scary?

Nicole [00:02:32] I don’t know. Nothing you eat should be that red. It’s like maraschino cherry red. That’s not good for you either. I was, like, trying to get back into Jell-O.

Sasheer [00:02:43] You were trying to get back into Jell-O? Why?

Nicole [00:02:49] Because I think Jell-O is a satiating snack.

Sasheer [00:02:54] Oh, yeah. I feel like I don’t know the last time I had Jell-O. But I feel like Jell-O would just make me hungrier because it’s a little taste of something. And then I’m like, “Well, basically all I had was juice. Now I want more. Now I want actual food.”

Nicole [00:03:14] Well, I’ve been trying to keep snacks in my house. I don’t have food in my house. I live like a person who isn’t staying long. But I live here. I have, like, stale popcorn. I have fresh pretzels because I had to make this thing I saw on Instagram, which was a rice cake with peanut butter, peanuts, melted chocolate, and pretzels. And let me tell you, tasty. But I didn’t even need the chocolate. I didn’t need it. The peanut butter was enough.

Sasheer [00:03:52] Wow. That’s great.

Nicole [00:03:55] It was so good. Okay. What kind of peanut–? Do you like peanut butter?

Sasheer [00:04:00] I love peanut butter.

Nicole [00:04:02] You do? Oh, this is a sore subject. Have you tried all-natural peanut butter where there’s nothing but peanuts?

Sasheer [00:04:12] No, I think that’s the thing. I can’t have peanuts. I’m not allergic to them. But I took this, like, epigenetics tests where it, like, analyzed–I don’t know–everything. And on the list of foods that I’m intolerant to, peanuts is on the list–along with gluten. I think I can have almond butter. Yeah. So, I don’t have to be without completely. I can have almond butter cups or something. But I love peanut butter.

Nicole [00:04:45] I also love peanut butter. I had a friend who was always like, “I’m gonna eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.” And then I was, like, with them as they made it, and they were using almond butter. And I was like, “That’s not peanut butter.”

Sasheer [00:05:01] “You’re doing it wrong.”

Nicole [00:05:03] Yeah. And they were like, “Well, all nut butters to me are just peanut butter. I just call them all peanut butter.” And I was like, “Well, you’re not being kind to the nut. Like, that’s almond butter. Peanut butter is peanut butter. Sunflower butter is sunflower butter.”

Sasheer [00:05:17] Call it by its name.

Nicole [00:05:19] Yeah, call me by my name. I’m Timothée Chalamet. Call me by my name.

Sasheer [00:05:27] Oh, Jordan said, “Jell-O is gluten and dairy free.” So, I can join you on this Jell-O Journey.

Nicole [00:05:31] Get on it, Sasheer. I mean, I bought it weeks ago, and I haven’t eaten it, so it might be bad. But does Jell-O go bad?

Sasheer [00:05:45] I feel like Jell-O is one of those foods that you find, like, after an apocalypse or something, and it’s survived everything. I have no idea.

Nicole [00:05:57] The ingredients are just, like, heating up water and then the packet, so I think you can eat that during an apocalypse. And that’s what I’m going to get.

Sasheer [00:06:10] No, Jordan just found something. “Despite its long shelf life, Jell-O can go bad. When it does, there are usually telltale signs to clue you in. Noticeable changes in the color or texture or an obvious off odor to spoiled Jell-O. Mold is also a dead giveaway.” Well, obviously. If I saw mold on it, I would have no question.

Nicole [00:06:31] Yeah, I’d be like, “This isn’t good anymore. I wouldn’t eat it.” I don’t think I’ve ever eaten a moldy thing. Have you? Have you been tricked?

Sasheer [00:06:38] I don’t think I’ve eaten a moldy thing. I’ve definitely had bad chicken and made myself throw up.

Nicole [00:06:44] Yeah. I’ve eaten a lot of bad things.

Sasheer [00:06:47] Yeah. I had chicken that was clearly gray. And I was like, “Well, the heat will kill all the germs.” And then I ate it, and my body’s like, “What’s wrong with you?” And I threw up immediately.

Nicole [00:07:00] I used to buy hamburgers and then eat half and then go to sleep and then wake up and go, “Oh, I better finish that hamburger,” and it wouldn’t be in the refrigerator. And then it would always make me sick. Always. Without a doubt.

Sasheer [00:07:18] But, you know, I had a bunch of pizza last night. And it was all gluten free crust, and I felt great. Usually, I’ll eat pizza and be like, “Oh. God. I feel bloated and, like, nasty.” And I assume it’s the cheese. It was the gluten this whole time.

Nicole [00:07:37] Oh, no. Gluten is the culprit.

Sasheer [00:07:40] Yeah. But honestly, thank goodness I can still have cheese. At least that’s something.

Nicole [00:07:48] That is something. That is nice. I don’t ever want to find out what I can and cannot eat.  I don’t want someone to be like, “You can’t have your favorite fucking thing.” And then I’m like, “So I just don’t eat my favorite fucking thing anymore?” No. I’d rather wake up at 3:00 a.m. sick as hell, but I had a nice time getting there. And wonder–just be like, “What was it?” because if I know, then I’ll be like, “Well, it was this, and I’m mad at myself for eating this.” But like what happened last night–woke up at 3:00 a.m. with a terrible stomachache, and I said, “Sleep through it, you’ll wake up better.” And I did. And it went away. And I don’t know what it was to this day. I dunno. Could be anything I ate yesterday. But guess what? I’ll never find out.

Sasheer [00:08:49] Ignorance is bliss.

Nicole [00:08:51] It really is because, like, yeah, I just don’t want to know. What if somebody tells me I can’t eat what I love? Chicken? Pears? What if they say I can’t have chicken or pears?

Sasheer [00:09:06] I also have to now be that person in a restaurant who’s like, “Is this salmon wild caught?” because apparently a lot of salmon or big fish have high levels of mercury in them because of the way they’re farmed. And I have a lot of toxic metals in my system, so I can’t afford to add mercury to it. So, I had to be like, “Where did this fish come from?” which is annoying. I don’t want to do that.

Nicole [00:09:38] It is a little annoying, but also, it’s fine. I remember I went to some restaurant. I don’t know if you were with me, but they were like, “This cow came from this farm.” And I was like, “What’s the cow’s name?” And the server said, “I can find that out for you.” I was like, “Oh no, I was just kidding!” They took it very seriously–where the cows were from. And I felt very bad after. And I felt like the server, like, didn’t like me after. I wonder if they talk about me now.

Sasheer [00:10:04] They probably genuinely thought you wanted to know the cow’s name. I think if I was a server and someone asked that, I’d be, like, more confused. I’m like, “Does this make you want to eat it more if you know the name?” I feel like I’d want to eat it less if I knew I was eating Bessy the cow. I’d be like, “Oh, poor Bessy.”

Nicole [00:10:26] I went to the Gentle Barn once, and then I was like, “I think I should become a vegan” because I cuddled with an old dying cow. And I was like, “I love her. She’s great. Nobody should eat her. She’s really giving me a lot of love that I’m starved for.” But then I went home and probably ate meat.

Sasheer [00:10:48] I don’t think it’s terrible to eat meat because, like, animals eat meat. Like, it’s okay for animals to eat animals. That’s just like part of the cycle of life. I think it’s kind of cruel the way a lot of the animals are killed for our consumption. That sucks. They shouldn’t be, like, in a cage for their whole goddamn life and in horrible conditions and getting diseases.

Nicole [00:11:11] It’s terrible. Was it you telling me about salmonella and spinach?

Sasheer [00:11:15] Yeah. I watched this documentary Poison that I probably shouldn’t have watched. But it talks about how a lot of the food in grocery stores just comes from places that people aren’t checking. Like, the FDA starts their assessments of food when it’s getting packaged but not at the farm. So, there were salmonella outbreaks on lettuce, on spinach, on meat, obviously… and the reasons will be like, “Why is there salmonella on spinach?” And it’s like, “Oh, well, because the spinach farm was next to the cow farm, and then the cow shit went into the water, which went to the irrigation system at the spinach farm. And now the spinach farmers are getting water sprayed on it that has cow shit inside of it. And then they just package it up and put it in plastic bags and give it to the grocery stores and people eat it and they get sick.”

Nicole [00:12:12] It’s very upsetting for me and my brain to wrap my little brain around it. And then it’s just like, “Yeah, you don’t even know what you’re getting in restaurants.” It’s not good.

Sasheer [00:12:23] It’s a little worrisome, which I guess it’s, like, you know, support for the argument to grow your own food. But I’m not going to do that!

Nicole [00:12:30] Yeah, I don’t have the space for all of it. And I was a farmer for a minute, and it was really hard. My farm got tore up. It’s done. It was so difficult keeping my little tomatoes alive. But maybe I’ll start going to, like, farmers markets or something.

Sasheer [00:12:54] I think you can look up farms near us and then see, like, if they can send you food because I think there’s places that can send you food from specific farms.

Nicole [00:13:06] Great. Send me seasonal veggies and fruits!

Sasheer [00:13:10] Yeah. I think it’s also better for your immune system if you eat foods that are grown in the area you live in as opposed to from Florida or different places in the country or the world. I don’t know why specifically, but I think I heard that somewhere.

Nicole [00:13:27] I believe you. The wildest thing for me with fruits that I learned is I hate orange juice from a box, but I love freshly squeezed orange juice from a ball of orange.

Sasheer [00:13:38] “From a ball.”

Nicole [00:13:40] You know, that classic term we used to describe oranges? A ball of orange. That’s good.

Sasheer [00:13:48] Speaking of having a ball…

Nicole [00:13:53] Okay. Yeah, that’s a good segue.

Sasheer [00:13:56] We have two friends on the show with us today, and we’re so excited to have them and talk to them for our segment called a Besting Each Other.

Nicole [00:14:05] Hell yeah. Today we have Franchesca Ramsey and De’Lon Grant.

Sasheer [00:14:10] Franchesca is an actor, writer, speaker, author, creator. Most recently, she served as a writer and co-producer on the iCarly reboot for Paramount+ and guest starred on NBC’s Superstore.

Nicole [00:14:21] De’Lon Grant is an actor, singer, and photographer. You’ve seen him in Broadway’s Tony Award winning Come from Away. And he’s toured with the Broadway hit Jersey Boys.

Sasheer [00:14:33] Together, they are best friends and host this new podcast called Lemme Fix It! where they analyze our favorite pop culture moments in history to find out what it would take to repackage them for relevance today.

Nicole [00:14:45] That sounds like fun!

Sasheer [00:14:47] It doesn’t sound like fun.

Nicole [00:14:54] All right. Let’s play Besting Each Other! Sasheer, I think we should start with De’Lon.

Sasheer [00:15:01] Let’s do it.

Nicole [00:15:05] All right, let’s get into it. This segment is called Besting Everybody Around. Okay, here’s the first question. De’Lon, how did you meet Franchesca?

De’Lon [00:15:19] We went to theater school together–an acting program at the University of Michigan. Well, truth be told, I didn’t really like her.

Sasheer [00:15:27] Oh, the truth comes out.

De’Lon [00:15:30] Well, she’s really smart. She’s really funny. She’s really quick witted. And at the time, I was a little shy. And Fran’s a little insecure. So, she would just, like, have zingers left and right. And I was like, “Let me stay clear of her so I don’t get made fun of and she doesn’t make me feel small.” But then we did a show together at the end of freshman year–beginning sophomore year–I can’t remember. And we were writing together, actually. So that’s where we kind of both started getting our writing flow. We worked on this performance art piece together, and we got assigned to write a little scene together. And that was the beginning of our friendship. We were like, “Wait a minute, you lived in a white place, too? Wait a minute. You deal with the same stuff I do?” So, yeah.

Nicole [00:16:12] Oh, that’s great. Do you remember what the piece was that you wrote together?

De’Lon [00:16:20] So we were doing this piece on, like, racial profiling. And we were three Black kids. Two of us were in it. And we couldn’t get through the piece because we thought it was so funny. She was playing this police officer, and I was just a driver she pulled over. And she was asking me all these questions about other Black people. She was like, “Why did that Black man do that thing?” And I was like, “Ma’am, I don’t know.” And we were cracking up. And all the white people… Well, after we ended it, people were like, “You know, the Jews were slaves, too. And we were like, “Oh, okay.” So, we thought it was hilarious. And it was the budding of us feeling like we had the same kind of experiences as little Black kids growing up in very white places.

Sasheer [00:17:07] That makes a lot of sense. What is your favorite memory of traveling together?

De’Lon [00:17:12] The first time we traveled together, we went to Playa del Carmen in Mexico, and we got this all-inclusive… It was the first time we started making money, right? So, we’re like, “Let’s go on a vacation.” And we got this resort, and it was so busting. You could not take a bad picture of this place. I mean, from the water to the cafeteria–everywhere was beautiful in pictures. But it was rundown and dirty. We got this couples massage. And I remember the woman giving us massages–it was literally like she was, like, just drooling with her hand on our body. We’re like, “You can go harder. You can go harder.” That was our first vacation–drunk the whole time. I don’t know. Like, well, whatever we do, illicit drugs. I had snuck some Molly, and we did some Molly on the beach. And when Fran’s on Molly, she, like, talks a lot. And she was talking to everybody. And I was like, “I just want to dance on the beach. Can we just dance on the beach?” But she was like, “This is our new friend. That’s our new friend.” She’s very social, and I’m kind of an introvert. So, drugs and a bad, you know, resort was our first vacation. She’s gonna be so mad that I said that.

Nicole [00:18:29] But she might say the same thing.

De’Lon [00:18:31] Truth. Truth.

Nicole [00:18:34] Why do you think she’s going to be mad, though?

De’Lon [00:18:36] You know, I don’t know. Fran will just couch it different. But, you know, Fran will have a punchline. And I’m like, “No, we did drugs.”

Nicole [00:18:46] What is your favorite thing about your friend Fran?

De’Lon [00:18:53] Well, she’s funny as fuck, but I also think she’s a helper. I just put this on our Instagram. She’s a helper, but it’s always couched in humor and in, like, genuine… Her personality, right? But she’s always ready to give somebody something. If you’re talking about something on social media, she’s like, “Oh, have you heard of this app that does this and this and this and this?” I love that about her because I don’t have that. And so, she’s really taught me how to be more, I guess, selfless and generous and kind. But she’s shitty as fuck, too, which I also love. I’m certainly jaded, and we’re both shady together. But that’s 7,000 things. You asked me one. I guess also… Her humor–she’s just so fucking funny. I find her hilarious.

Nicole [00:19:42] I like that. I like that you could be shitty together. But also, she’s so helpful. And I like that you recognize that.

De’Lon [00:19:49] Yeah. I think, you know, she’d probably say the same thing about me. So, you know, it takes one to know.

Nicole [00:19:55] And just to clarify, you said “shady,” right? Or did you say “shitty”?

De’Lon [00:20:00] Oh. “Shady.” “Shady.”

Nicole [00:20:02] Oopsies. I heard “shitty.”

Sasheer [00:20:04] I kind of heard “shitty,” but I was like, “That can’t be what he said.”

Nicole [00:20:07] “She’s real shitty. I’m shitty, too.”

De’Lon [00:20:09] I need to work the articulators. Shady. Shady. Shady. It’s just humor. It’s not mean. It’s humor.

Sasheer [00:20:18] With a wink. Yes. If you had to guess, what would you say Franchesca’s favorite thing is about you?

De’Lon [00:20:29] I think I’m a really curious person. I take a lot of classes. She makes fun of me for taking so many classes. And I mean, I take a Spanish class. Anything I’m interested in, I’ll take a class. So, I think she would say that she appreciates my quest for knowledge, my curiosity, my need to know things. She’s also similar, but just in a different way. You know, she’s going to read a book. I’m going to, like, go and make you teach me something and then not read the book.

Nicole [00:20:59] ¿Tú comes pan?

De’Lon [00:21:02] Sí. Mucho. ¿Y tú?

Nicole [00:21:02] Sí.

De’Lon [00:21:08] ¿Cuál es tu comida favorita?

Nicole [00:21:08] Uh oh.

De’Lon [00:21:12] You just fell in love with me, didn’t you?

Sasheer [00:21:18] No entiendo over here. We’re on our Duolingo, but we are…

Nicole [00:21:25] I’ve fallen off. It’s tough. That big bird bullies me. It sends me emails being like, “Guess you’re not going to practice today.”

De’Lon [00:21:33] And then it goes, “So-and-so just beat you. They just surpassed you.” I don’t know that person.

Nicole [00:21:39] I don’t know them. Leave me alone. Why is this a race? What is something that you do that drives Fran crazy?

De’Lon [00:21:49] Oh, God. I always do things that I don’t want to do. And then I call her, and I complain about it.  It’s just silence on the other end. I’m like, “Oh, I’m going to do this thing, and I don’t want to do it.” Silence. Now, because we’ve been friends for 20 plus years, she’s like, “Okay, well…” And she’s about to say it. And I’m like, “I know. I know. I’ve got better at it. But I always do things that I don’t want to do just because you asked me to.” And I’m like, “I want to show up,” and you asked me, so, like, I feel special, but I don’t want to do it because I want to lay down.”

Nicole [00:22:24] I understand that struggle. I love to lay down.

Sasheer [00:22:29] Same. I lay down before this podcast.

Nicole [00:22:35] I’m going to lay down right after. I can’t wait.

Sasheer [00:22:39] What is something that Franchesca does that drives you crazy?

De’Lon [00:22:43] What does she do that drives me crazy? I guess Fran knows so much that sometimes, like… We cut each other off a lot. But sometimes she will… She’s done this in groups where I’m, like, telling a story that she knows the end of the story. And she would just say the punchline. And I’m like, “Yo, let me have the punchline.” And I’m like, “Thank you very much.” So, because she’s ahead of the game– And she’s done this to me a couple of times. But I guess that’s something that really bothers me. But then it’s still funny because she probably told it better anyway.

Sasheer [00:23:27] Maybe you should, like, have an agreement that she can set up the story so that you say the punchline.

De’Lon [00:23:34] Look at you! Making friendships grow.

Sasheer [00:23:37] Yeah, that’s what this show is about.

Nicole [00:23:38] “I’m going to tell the story, and I want the punchline. So just set it up for me.” It would be so funny to plan a conversation before you go out together.

De’Lon [00:23:50] I feel like I’m like she would miss details because she’d be like, “Oh, are we really?”

Sasheer [00:23:54] Yeah.

De’Lon [00:23:55] And she missed the details. I think that probably annoys her, too. She’s like, “Oh, you’re going 17 ways to get to the punchline. Just tell the punchline, right?”

Sasheer [00:24:04] That’s probably why she’s doing it because she’s like, “We don’t need all this.”

De’Lon [00:24:07] “We don’t need all this. Cut, cut, cut, cut.”

Sasheer [00:24:10] Yes.

De’Lon [00:24:11] She’s a writer, bitch.

Nicole [00:24:14] Okay. Do you remember the CBS long running television series Survivor?

De’Lon [00:24:19] I do, but I did not watch.

Nicole [00:24:22] That’s okay. Which one of you would do better on it?

De’Lon [00:24:25] Who would do better on it? Fran’s strategic. She’s got that strategery. She would. Fran’s strategic. I would have the muscle ready. I would have the strength. But Fran’s strategic. And I’m just too nice. I would be like, “Yeah, let’s be friends.” There are alliances, right?

Sasheer [00:24:47] Yeah.

De’Lon [00:24:48] I would get messed up by an alliance, like, “I thought we were buddies!” Yeah, she would do better for sure.

Sasheer [00:24:55] Yeah, that makes sense.

De’Lon [00:24:57] People would like me more, though.

Sasheer [00:25:02] Which I think is important because that probably means you could get kept longer on the show.

De’Lon [00:25:07] Right.

Sasheer [00:25:09] Okay. Last question. What do you hope you’re both doing 20 years from now?

De’Lon [00:25:15] Oh, 20 years from now… The first thing that came to mind was I hope we’re celebrating an award she gets. Fran has had so many amazing things happen to her. As you know, you’re friends with her, so you know some of the stuff. Obviously, everyone knows her career. But seeing how hard she’s worked and, you know, disappointments and successes… But every time something happens to her, it’s like it’s happening to me. It really is. I have two sisters, but she’s like a third sister. Yeah. I hope we’re celebrating an award because I’ll have two before she does so…

Sasheer [00:25:53] “I feel like it’s old hat for me, but I’m really excited for her first.” So sweet. So generous.

De’Lon [00:26:06] So nice. I love it.

Sasheer [00:26:06] Okay, cute. Well, we got your answers. And now we’re going to bring Fran back, ask her the same questions, compare, and see if you guys really know each other.

Nicole [00:26:20] Yeah.

De’Lon [00:26:20] All right. I’ll be here.

Sasheer [00:26:32] The Real Good Podcast by U.S. Bank aims to celebrate and gain knowledge from those working to change historical institutions and policies that disenfranchise BIPOC communities and women. Hosted by Faith Salie, each season provides the opportunity to learn from people who are on the ground, working to better their immediate communities or their industries. Topics include building community centered small businesses, bringing minority deposit institutions to new markets, the real impact of diversity programs at the corporate level, and more. This is not a banking podcast, but Faith and guests do explore how various issues impact people’s abilities to reach their goals and build generational wealth. The goal is to have open, direct discussions of the issues without sugarcoating things with corporate speak or letting corporations–including U.S. Bank–from doing their part to change systems of power for better. Listen to Real Good on all major podcast platforms or visit usbank.com/realgood.  Bank of America is invested in supporting their employees professionally and personally. At Bank of America, wellness is at the center of employee culture, offering a large suite of benefits and programs including health care, tuition reimbursement, community involvement events, and so much more. Their award-winning training, continued education courses, and support at all levels allow employees to develop, upskill, and reskill their abilities throughout each touchpoint within the organization. In addition, Bank of America has a variety of career growth opportunities and mentorship programs that support and reward employees with what they need to be their whole selves. Their commitment to fostering a more inclusive and purpose driven workforce is what makes Bank of America a great place to work. A wide variety of open positions are waiting for you. Learn more at careers.bankofamerica.com. Bank of America is an equal opportunities employer.

Nicole [00:28:40] All right. Sasheer, would you like to start us off?

Sasheer [00:28:42] Sure. Now we’re back with another round of Besting Each Other! And we have our good friend, Franchesca Ramsey, on the show. So excited for her… We’re so excited to have her. Too excited–I can’t get the words out. We just talked to De’Lon. He said a lot of things. We want to hear what you have to say now.

Franchesca [00:29:03] Okay. I’m so nervous, even though, like, we know each other very well. But, man, I just can’t even imagine what you’re going to ask.

Nicole [00:29:13] Hard-hitting questions.

Sasheer [00:29:20] Okay. This is a really tough one. How did you two meet?

Franchesca [00:29:24] We met in college. We really became friends sophomore year, but we did meet in freshman year. But I genuinely can’t remember anything about freshman year. But we got cast together in a play sophomore year, and that’s when it really, really solidified our friendship.

Sasheer [00:29:40] Which play?

Franchesca [00:29:41] It was called After a Fashion. And it was a performance art piece directed by Holly Hughes, which is this really wild feminist performance artist, best known for dumping oatmeal on herself naked. At one point, she had gotten this massive art grant and got it taken away because she did this weird performance art thing. And yeah, De’Lon and I got cast in the show. We had to write the show together, and so we wrote all these scenes together called The Black Reps, where we were representing all Black people and answering hard-hitting questions similar to the ones here.

Nicole [00:30:20] Do you remember one of the things that you wrote together for Black Reps?

Franchesca [00:30:25] Yeah, we wrote this really ridiculous sketch where I was a cop. I pulled De’Lon over, and I was racially profiling him and asking him all these, like, ridiculous questions. I was like, “A man stole my watch when I was five. Why? And he was Black. Why did that happen?” And De’Lon was like, “I don’t know. I’m late for work.”  It was really ridiculous. No one else seemed to like the sketch.

Sasheer [00:30:56] Really? A sketch about race?

Franchesca [00:30:59] It was a room full of white people, and we thought it was the funniest sketch in the world. And everyone was just silent. They were like, “We don’t like it.” It was really funny. It really, like, solidified our relationship. I was like, “Oh, I thought so too.”

Sasheer [00:31:13] Yeah. Thank goodness. Yeah. It’s nice when you can find someone who you’re like, “Oh, we have similar humor here.”

Franchesca [00:31:19] Yes.

Nicole [00:31:22] Oh, absolutely. I once bought these sunglasses that I loved, and I was trying to show them to Sasheer and Mateo. We were in a hotel room, and I was so excited. And I was like, “Close your eyes.” And I turned around, and I put them on. They opened their eyes, and they were just dead silent. And neither one of them liked my sunglasses. And I was like, “But I love these. Why don’t you like them? They’re bad?” And, you know, I get it. I get presenting something to a group of people to be like, “You’ll love it,” and they hate it.

Franchesca [00:31:49] It Seems like you’ve been holding on to this for a minute.

Sasheer [00:31:51] Yeah. You really like, like, brought that up out of nowhere.

Nicole [00:31:57] No, I was just relating to Fran.

Franchesca [00:32:02] Mine was about race. Yours was about sunglasses. But yeah.

Nicole [00:32:04] I understand.

Sasheer [00:32:07] “There was discrimination against my purple sunglasses.”

Nicole [00:32:11] I mean, when we marched that summer, it wasn’t for purple sunglasses.

Sasheer [00:32:15] No. No, it was not. Colorism. Prejudice against the purple.

Nicole [00:32:24] What is your favorite memory from traveling with De’Lon?

Franchesca [00:32:28] Oh, from traveling. Oh, my God. We went to Mexico, and I think we got the resort package on Groupon, which should have been the first red flag. He was so excited. We go to this resort, and it was beautiful in photos, but it was so fucking busted. We had no air conditioning. There was bugs everywhere. It was so nasty. But every photo that we took at the resort was gorgeous. Like, it was very much stunting on Facebook. But the reality was like, “We hate it here.” The food was really bad. Oh God, it was awful.

Nicole [00:33:04] That can be some of the best travel moments. They’re kind of trauma bonding at that point.

Franchesca [00:33:10] God, we had such a good time. But it was really funny because, truly, when you looked at it from the outside looking in, it looked like we were on this glamorous vacation. But the reality was we had, like, scraped our coins together to go. And obviously it was on Groupon for a reason because the place was struggle bus.

Nicole [00:33:30] I want to know what this place was.

Franchesca [00:33:32] Oh, God, I can’t remember what it was called. And we were there for, like, five days. I also remember we were walking around. I think it was in Cabo. And we were walking around and guys on the street kept trying to give us drugs. They were like, “Cocaine? Cocaine?” We were like, “Um… Is this ’cause we’re Black?”

Sasheer [00:33:55] Maybe it was because you’re American.

Franchesca [00:33:56] Maybe that’s what it was. I had never been propositioned for drugs in that way before, but it was pretty much everywhere we went the whole time we were there.

Nicole [00:34:05] I love it. Curbside service.

Sasheer [00:34:07] They bring it to you. What is your favorite thing about De’Lon?

Franchesca [00:34:16] I love his laugh. Oh, my God. He has the best laugh. It’s, like, really, really loud and booming. I feel like if there was, like, a little sound board with all the different, like, sounds you could do, his voice would be the stock sound for laughter.

Sasheer [00:34:34] Oh, I love that.

Nicole [00:34:39] I love that, too. Laughs are fun. And that’s a dumb sentence, and I own it.

Franchesca [00:34:45] You are clearly a comedian. But there is something really great when someone has a good laugh and then just makes you laugh more. And then you just keep going. You, like, are in this loop and you can’t stop. Every time we text, like, I know I said something really funny if he sends me a voice note and it’s just him laughing. It’s just the best feeling. I’m like, “Hell yeah. I did that.” So, that’s how I know I really landed a joke with him.

Nicole [00:35:17] Laughing is fun. And I don’t know why I can’t articulate this any more than “Laugh is good. Laugh is fun.”

Franchesca [00:35:26] “She’s a writer. She is a cultural commentator.”

Sasheer [00:35:29] “I think it’s fun. No one’s saying it.” All right. If you could guess, what would you say is De’Lon’s favorite thing about you?

Franchesca [00:35:45] I mean, I feel like this is… I mean, I was going to say that I’m funny. I don’t know. We make each other laugh a lot, but I guess maybe outside of that, I think I give really good advice. And I always appreciate that, like, when De’Lon’s going through some shit, he reaches out to me, and he feels like it’s a safe space to share. No judgment–a little shade just because, like, we love each other–but then, like, I can actually give him solid advice and help him with whatever he’s dealing with.

Sasheer [00:36:13] That’s valuable.

Nicole [00:36:16] It is good to have a friend like that, where you’re like, “Oh, I can just go to you for anything. And I know that there’s no judgment, and you’re just going to give me, like, practical, good advice.”

Franchesca [00:36:26] I mean, we’ve known each other for so long that, like, I feel like when I give him advice, I’m coming from a place of, like, “I know how you would normally approach this. And I know, like, what’s going to help you or what’s going to get you out of your comfort zone or what your natural instinct would be. But what’s best for the situation because we’ve been friends for 20+ years.”

Sasheer [00:36:47] Have you ever given the same advice over and over again?

Franchesca [00:36:56] Yes, I definitely have. You know, one of the things that’s really great about him is De’Lon’s very selfless, and he’s always there to, like, help other people and go out of his way for folks. But I often tell him he needs to get better at saying no because he will always be like, “Girl, I have this thing to do.” And I’m like, “Well, you should’ve just said ‘no.’” He’s always volunteering for something. Or he has to, like, ride ten trains to get there, and it’s going to take up half of his day. And he’s like, “I really don’t want to do it.” And I’m always saying to him, “Just fucking say, ‘No.’ You’re allowed to not do it. You don’t even need to make up an excuse. Just say you don’t want to or you don’t have time or whatever.” And so, I’m really proud of him. I feel like that’s something he’s gotten better at. But it’s taken him some time.

Sasheer [00:37:45] Yeah, it’s hard because you want to, like, make everyone feel comfortable.

Franchesca [00:37:51] Yeah/ But you’re allowed to put yourself first. I mean, that’s one thing I’m very good at. I love saying no to things. But I also understand it, and I think also, like, as creative people, it can be hard when you get an opportunity and you’re like, “If I say no to this, like, am I ever going to work again? Or that person’s going to think I’m a bitch. Or I really need the money, but I don’t really want to do this thing.” Like, it’s so hard to just say, “This isn’t the right thing for me,” or “I just don’t want to do it.” So, I understand that.

Sasheer [00:38:23] Yeah. But that’s good to have a friend who’s like, “You’re allowed to say ‘no.’ I give you permission.”

Franchesca [00:38:28] You need that. Absolutely. Sometimes you just need permission for someone to validate because often you know. You know the answer. You just need someone to reflect it back to you so that you feel confident enough to do it for yourself.

Nicole [00:38:41] Yeah, I fully agree. What is something that you do that drives De’Lon crazy?

Franchesca [00:38:48] Oh, my God. I don’t know. I feel like everything I do is so… Something I do that drives De’Lon crazy. God, I really don’t know. I’m trying to think back to, like… We got in a fight on vacation one time. I feel like it was the first time we’d ever gotten into a fight. And he was like, “You always do this.” Maybe not listening. Maybe that’s what it was ’cause I don’t fucking remember. What was the fight about?

Sasheer [00:39:18] “He said something important. I can’t remember what it was.”

Franchesca [00:39:23] “And I feel like it was really substantive. “Yeah. You know, not that I don’t listen, but I think, like, on the topic of saying “no” and all that stuff, it was an instance where he, like, really needed to stand up for himself. And like, maybe it’s the idea that, like, sometimes I can be like a little bit of a know-it-all if I have to be honest. So maybe not necessarily always offering him space to… It’s the double-edged sword of, like, “You should advocate for yourself more. Just kidding. Now you’re doing. I’m not listening.” So maybe bulldozing a little bit in conversations.

Sasheer [00:40:03] That makes sense. And you’re very self-aware thinking.

Franchesca [00:40:07] You know, she’s been going to therapy.

Nicole [00:40:09] I mean, therapy good just like laugh.

Sasheer [00:40:14] “Therapy good.”

Nicole [00:40:14] I smell a new book. Therapy Good, Laugh Better.

Sasheer [00:40:20] What is something that De’Lon does that drives you crazy?

Franchesca [00:40:31] Oh, my God. De’Lon will talk about how he’s going to do something for, like, eight years. I remember he wanted to go to Spain. And I swear to God it was like every day he was like, “Someday I’m going to Spain.” By then I was like, “Nigga, book the trip to Spain and stop talking about it. I can’t hear you talk about how you want to go to Spain so badly. Just freaking do it.”

Sasheer [00:40:51] Yes.

Franchesca [00:40:52] So I would say that, and then… Is there anything else? No, I think that’s it.

Sasheer [00:41:00] That’s great.

Nicole [00:41:01] Yeah, that’s great.

Sasheer [00:41:03] You don’t need a long list. Which one of you would do better on the TV show Survivor?

Franchesca [00:41:11] Ooh. I don’t think either of us would do very good on that show. We’re kind of, like, bougie bitches. And neither of us are good at, like, physical… I mean, I think I’ve gotten better at physical stuff, but I don’t know. Can I say both of us? I don’t think either of us would do good. Do I have to pick one?

Nicole [00:41:32] Yes.

Franchesca [00:41:35] Okay. Okay. I’m gonna say me. I’m going to say I would do better marginally. Like, not by much.

Sasheer [00:41:40] And why? Why do you think so?

Franchesca [00:41:42] I think I would do, again, marginally better because I work out more than De’Lon, and I have, like, more endurance. He’s in better shape by just naturally being a dude. But I think that, like, I would be able to, like, do challenges and, like, climb over stuff and, like, do word puzzles and things like that. I’m good at that kind of stuff.

Sasheer [00:42:07] Yeah. That makes sense.

Nicole [00:42:10] What do you hope you’re both doing in 20 years?

Franchesca [00:42:17] I hope we both are working on successful TV shows, either as writers, performers, or both. I hope we are still doing our podcast and it has all sorts of iterations, like a tour and merch and maybe a TV show. And I hope that De’Lon has a really hot partner and a dog because he wants a dog. He’s not ready to take care of a dog, but if he had a partner, that would be good for him. And I hope we’re both living in the same city. That would be wonderful. And yeah, I think that’s it.

Sasheer [00:42:59] I like that.

Nicole [00:43:01] I like it, too. That’s sweet. All right. We’re going to bring De’Lon back and see if you’re actually fucking friends.

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Nicole [00:44:35] Isn’t it obnoxious when companies have those sneaky gadgets hiding and deep in the fine print or bills that seem to go up for no dang reason. Oh boy! There’s a lot of yada yada yadas I’ve encountered in my life, like budget airlines that promised a cheap fare but then charge you for every little thing until you realize you’re paying more. You could have gone somewhere else! Actually, brands usually want me to say a lot of yada yada when I do ads like this. At Metro by T-Mobile, there is not a yada yada yada. That means no contracts, no price hikes, no surprises. They don’t even want me to speed through the legal. So here it is. When they say no price hikes when you join, they mean your price will never increase for talk, text, and smartphone data plans. Their only exclusions are for limited time promos, per use charges, and third-party services. I guess that really is not a yada yada. Metro by T-Mobile–not a yada yada. Well, this is where we find out if you’re actually friends. We asked, “Where did you meet?” De’Lon said, “We went to a theater program in acting at a school in Michigan.” At first, he didn’t like her. De’Lon was shy. Fran had zingers. But then they did a show together. They wrote a piece–a performance piece–together on racial profiling. She played a police officer and asked him questions about other Black people. And the white people said, “Jews were slaves, too!” Wait, how do we do this again? Do you read Fran’s part? I fucking forget.

Franchesca [00:46:12] You host a podcast together!

Sasheer [00:46:14] She forgets a lot of parts.

Nicole [00:46:18] I forget what this segment is called. Listen, everything is really hard. Then we asked, “What’s your favorite memory of traveling together?” De’Lon said–

Sasheer [00:46:31] Wait, did you read Fran’s part? What are you doing? Why did you move to the next question? Just finish that section.

Nicole [00:46:38] That’s what I meant. I was like, “Do I read both parts or just De’Lon’s part?” I got really confused. Okay, listen, I’ve been recording for a long time. Fran said, “We met in college. We became friends sophomore year. We got cast in a play together.” There was a performance art piece directed by Holly Hughes who’s known by dumping oatmeal on herself naked. And they had to write a show together. They’re answering hard hit questions. They wrote a sketch where Fran was a cop, pulled him over, and racially profiled him. And nobody else seemed to like the sketch. And the room was full of white people. And they were like, “Tada! And people didn’t like it.” Now, I remember how we did this. And then you do the next question, and then I do the next question. Are we actually friends, and do I actually record this podcast?

Sasheer [00:47:24] But yes, you both got that perfectly.

Franchesca [00:47:26] Yay!

De’Lon [00:47:28] Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

Sasheer [00:47:28] All right. Next question we asked was, “What’s your favorite memory of traveling together?” And De’Lon said, “We went to Playa del Carmen in Mexico. The resort was busted. The water was dirty. We were drunk the whole time. I snuck some Molly onto the beach.”

De’Lon [00:47:49] I told you. I told you. I told you.

Franchesca [00:47:50] Oh, my God. Me doing Molly on the beach and hugging strangers.

Sasheer [00:47:56] I mean, it sounds beautiful.

Franchesca [00:48:04] Oh, my God. De’Lon had to be my babysitter. He was like, “Stop talking to these people.”

De’Lon [00:48:08] “Leave them alone.”

Franchesca [00:48:08] I was like, “I love you. You guys are amazing.”

Sasheer [00:48:14] That’s what Molly will do. Yeah, he said Fran was “extroverted” and wanted to make a lot of friends. And then he also was like, “She might not like that I brought up that we were doing drugs.” And then Fran said the same thing. They went to Mexico. The resort was busted. Beautiful photos, but no AC. Had a good time because it looked like it was a truly glamorous trip, but it wasn’t. And they were in Cabo, and people kept propositioning drugs to us all over the place. And she was not used to that.

Franchesca [00:48:50] Meanwhile, we had just been doing some, but you know… I was like, “Stop profiling me. Do you have any Molly?”

Sasheer [00:48:58] “Why do they think I want drugs? I’m currently on Molly.”

Franchesca [00:49:06] “More hugging, less drugging.”

Sasheer [00:49:07] Yes, yes.

Nicole [00:49:09] We asked, “What’s your favorite thing about your friend?” De’Lon said, “She’s so funny. She’s a helper. She’s genuine–authentic. She’s taught me how to be more selfless and kind. She’s also very shady, and we’re shady together. I find her hilarious. It’s humor with a wink.” And then Franchesca said, “I love his laugh. He has a loud, booming laugh. His laugh would be stock if there was a soundboard. And there’s something great about someone with a great laugh, it makes you laugh too. And then I know I really hit it out of the ballpark when I text him something and a simple voice note of him laughing comes back to me.”

Sasheer [00:49:51] And then we asked, “What’s your friend’s favorite thing about you?” And De’Lon said, “That I’m a curious person. I take a lot of classes. Anything I’m interested in, I will go research it. I need to know things. And she’ll just read a book. That’s how we’re different.” And then Fran said, “I think that I give really good advice. I can provide a safe space and make him laugh. And we’ve known each other for so long. And he knows I’m coming from a place of care, and I give advice from our experiences. And he is selfless, and I have to tell him that he needs to be better at saying no because sometimes he’ll do things that overextend himself, and he just needs to take care of himself. But I do think he’s getting better at it.” And Fran understands that it may be hard to say no because when you’re working in the industry, you want to say yes to everything. You might not get another opportunity. But it’s important to say no, too.”

Nicole [00:50:59] “What’s something you do that drives your friend crazy?” De’Lon said, “I always do things that I don’t want to do and then call her to complain about it. And she doesn’t have to say anything sometimes. But honestly, I don’t want to do things. I just want to lay down, which I understand.” Fran said, “Everything I do is great.” But then she thought about it, and she said, “We got into a fight on vacation, and it was probably the first time we fought.” So maybe it was her not listening because she can’t remember what the fight was about. And then on the topic of saying no and the idea that sometimes Fran could be a know-it-all, maybe not offering him space and bulldozing conversations.

De’Lon [00:51:40] Wow. That’s more than I even said.

Franchesca [00:51:43] I feel like we’re really insightful and thoughtful.

De’Lon [00:51:47] We really are. And also, we know ourselves, too.

Sasheer [00:51:52] You’re very self-aware.

Nicole [00:51:53] I love this.

Franchesca [00:51:54] This is adulting.

Nicole [00:51:57] That’s important.

Sasheer [00:51:58] Especially in a relationship. We asked, “What’s something your friend does that drives you crazy?” And De’Lon had a moment to think about. He was like, “I don’t know.” And then he said, “She knows so much. We cut each other off a lot. Sometimes I’ll be telling a story and she’ll tell this punchline before I can get to it. I’m like, ‘Well, give me a chance to do the punchline.’ But if I let her tell a story, she’ll miss 17 details because she gets to the punchline right away. That’s the writer in her.” And then Fran said, “He will talk about something he wants to do forever.”

De’Lon [00:52:40] Burns! Yo, so true. Damn. You really know me, man.

Sasheer [00:52:44] She said, “I can’t keep hearing about you wanting to go to Spain anymore. You just go.”

De’Lon [00:53:01] Yo, cut me to the core. That’s so right.

Nicole [00:53:10] We asked, “Which of you would do better on Survivor?” De’Lon said, “She’s strategic. She would. I would be the muscle and the strength. I would get messed up in an alliance because I’m too friendly. She would do better, but people would like me more.”

Franchesca [00:53:22] I would get the bitch edit for real.

Nicole [00:53:31] Fran said, “I don’t think either of us would do well. Neither of us are really physical, but I think I would do better ever so slightly–marginally better because I work out more than him. He’s in better shape just being a dude. But I can do puzzles and jump over things.”

De’Lon [00:53:43] You’re not wrong. You’re not wrong. You’re not wrong.

Sasheer [00:53:46] I like breaking down that show into, like, puzzles and jumping over things. That’s the basics of it.

Franchesca [00:53:53] I also like that De’Lon knows that he’s too nice for a show like that. You need to be able to backstab, to be honest.

De’Lon [00:53:59] I know. See, I would be like, “Here, you can have some of my food.”

Sasheer [00:54:04] “I’ll build your tent for you. That’s fine.” And lastly, we asked, “What do you hope you’re both doing 20 years from now?” De’Lon said, “I hope we’re celebrating an award that Fran gets. Seeing how hard she worked and all the successes she’s got and the disappointments she’s had, whenever she wins something, it feels like I’m winning, too. And she’s like a sister to me.” And then he was like, “And it would be nice to celebrate her first win because I probably would have gotten a couple of awards already.”

De’Lon [00:54:39] Just shade.

Franchesca [00:54:40] Hilarious.

Sasheer [00:54:40] And then Fran said, “I hope we’re both working on successful TV shows, whether writing or performing. I hope we’re still doing our podcast and we have different iterations of it. We have tours, merch, maybe a TV show spinoff. I hope that he has a hot partner and a dog.”

De’Lon [00:55:03] Wait. Fran, come on. You better be my genie for real life.

Sasheer [00:55:10] “And I hope we’re both living in the same city.” And that’s it!

Nicole [00:55:15] That’s it. You guys are friends. You’re very good friends.

Franchesca [00:55:18] We fucking crushed this.

Nicole [00:55:21] We really did.

De’Lon [00:55:22] We really did. Yo, I love you so much, man.

Franchesca [00:55:26] Oh, my God. I was getting a little choked up when you were talking about me winning awards until you said that you have won more than me.

De’Lon [00:55:37] Wait. I was getting choked up, too. No, that was my first thought. I was like, “I hope we’re celebrating an award for her.”

Franchesca [00:55:43] Well, I also just want to add that the other thing I said about you having a partner and a dog is I said something shady that, you know, you needed a partner to help you take care of his dog because you couldn’t do it by yourself.

Sasheer [00:55:54] This is true.

De’Lon [00:55:56] Wait a minute. That’s too soon.

Nicole [00:55:57] I love that you were like, “I have to add this.”

Sasheer [00:56:00] Yeah. You’re like, “It’s not all sincere.”

Franchesca [00:56:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m shady, too.

De’Lon [00:56:07] I did give that dog back.

Franchesca [00:56:09] You gave that dog away.

Sasheer [00:56:10] Oh!

De’Lon [00:56:12] I am not mad about it. It was right for me. Okay?

Franchesca [00:56:18] “I’d do it again.” It was the Kamala Harris gif of De’Lon just waving bye.

Sasheer [00:56:23] I think that’s a good way to say no.

Franchesca [00:56:32] You know what? Growth. I was really proud of you for that–for sure. Knowing your limitations. “I don’t want to do this anymore.”

De’Lon [00:56:40] “Get that bitch out of my house.”

Franchesca [00:56:46] But we’ve decided that you guys can continue hosting this podcast together.

Sasheer [00:56:50] Thank you so much. We almost didn’t make it.

Nicole [00:56:53] I mean, truly this episode we almost didn’t. I made bad sentences. I forgot how the fucking format works. Boy, oh boy. This was a test of us.

De’Lon [00:57:03] Your wallpaper matches Sasheer’s sweatshirt, so you’re kindreds no matter what.

Franchesca [00:57:08] Well, to be fair, this is an audio format.

Sasheer [00:57:12] Yeah, they have to take our word for it.

Nicole [00:57:17] And you’ll never know because I’ll never post a picture.

Sasheer [00:57:24] Well, your friendship is so beautiful, and I can’t wait to listen to your podcast.

Franchesca [00:57:28] Aw, thank you so much. We’re really excited. And we’re inspired by you two. I mean, it’s so cool to see two really good friends hosting a show that know each other so well. It brings such light and levity and just depth to your show. So, you know, we’re happy to be in community with the two of you.

Sasheer [00:57:45] Oh, thank you! That’s so sweet!

Nicole [00:57:47] That is nice.

De’Lon [00:57:49] Absolutely. I love how much you diss yourselves. That’s my favorite thing about your podcast. Y’all just showing up and just being yourselves and making all of us cackle. And Fran and I are doing the same thing but telling each other’s business in the meantime.

Sasheer [00:58:08] I love that. This’ll be the shadier version.

De’Lon [00:58:13] Best friends: The Midnight Version.

Sasheer [00:58:15] After Dark. Well, thank you so much for doing this.

Nicole [00:58:22] Thank you for doing this. This is delightful.

De’Lon [00:58:24] Thank you for having us.

Franchesca [00:58:25] Yeah, thank you for having us. This was so fun.

Nicole [00:58:27] We didn’t take any questions today because we were talking to people, but usually we do. And if you want your questions answered, you can email nicoleandsasheer@gmail.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail, a text message, a voice memo because that’s longer than a voicemail. You can call 424-645-7003.

Sasheer [00:58:50] We also have merch at podswag.com/bestfriends.

Nicole [00:58:59] We have transcripts for our new episodes. Check them out on our show page at earwolf.com.

Sasheer [00:59:05] Lastly, don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe. That is the easiest way to support this show. Bye-bye.

Nicole [00:59:16] Bye!