November 10, 2020
This week we’re breaking down The Job. To kick off this 2-part episode we are joined by Paul Lieberstein (Toby from The Office, Space Force), who shares his memories from The Office, his “acting school”, and what characters he misses writing for the most. Then, we answer fan questions about Jim’s ‘big haircut’, and we examine all the ways Pam is enjoying her newfound confidence. Finally, we dig into the hilarious ‘Creed Thoughts’ blog, and we chat about Jan’s new boob job and everything that went into making them look realistic. See you next week as we finish up this supersized episode with The Job Part 2.
53 — The Job Part 1 w/ Paul Lieberstein
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:03] I’m Jenna Fischer.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:04] And I’m Angela Kinsey.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:06] We were on “The Office” together.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:07] And we’re best friends.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:08] And now we’re doing the ultimate “Office” rewatch podcast just for you.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:12] Each week we will break down an episode of “The Office” and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:19] We’re the “Office Ladies”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:22] Hey there, everyone, it’s Angela Kinsey.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:24] It’s Jenna Fischer.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:26] And we are here to talk to you this week about “The Job”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:31] Yes, it’s the end of Season 3, Angela. This is the Season 3 finale. I can’t believe we’re already at the Season 3 finale.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:00:41] I can’t either. I can’t either. I was saying to my husband the other day, I was like, “Babe, Jenna and I have talked for a year now about the show and it doesn’t even feel like any time has gone by”. I mean, I think we just really enjoy hanging out and talking with each other, and also talking about the show.
JENNA FISCHER [00:00:58] Well, this is actually “The Job”, Part One. This is an hour long episode finale. So we’re dividing it into two episodes of “Office Ladies” so that we can really cover everything. This was written by Paul Lieberstein and Mike Schur and directed by Ken Kwapis.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:01:17] Jenna, do you know, it was also co-edited, not only co-written, but it was co-edited with Dave Rodgers and Dean Holland.
JENNA FISCHER [00:01:24] Wow.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:01:25] Because it was such a big episode.
JENNA FISCHER [00:01:27] We put everyone on this.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:01:29] All hands on deck.
JENNA FISCHER [00:01:30] Well, here is a summary for Part One. “Before leaving for his interview and confident he already has a new job at Corporate, Michael names Dwight as his replacement at Dunder Mifflin, Scranton. Angela could not be more excited”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:01:46] Oh, yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:01:48] “But before Michael can leave, Jan pays a surprise visit, she shows Michael her new breast enhancement and says she wants to get back together. Jim and Karen leave early as they are also interviewing for the job at Corporate. Dwight makes Andy his number two, since Andy is the only person who would interview for the position”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:02:11] And that’s just the first half.
JENNA FISCHER [00:02:12] There’s more to come.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:02:15] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:02:15] Well, listen, to kick off this finale episode, we have a surprise guest. We’re so excited. Writer, Toby himself, Paul Lieberstein.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:02:26] Toby is in the house. Well, you know, in the Zoom house. Toby is in the Zoom house!
JENNA FISCHER [00:02:32] Oh, well, we asked him all about being Toby and all about this episode. Sam, will you play the interview? Hello, Paul Lieberstein. Welcome to “Office Ladies”.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:02:49] Hello, Jenna Fischer. Hello, Angela Kinsey. Thank you for having me.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:02:53] Oh, thanks so much for being on.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:02:55] My pleasure.
JENNA FISCHER [00:02:56] We’re so excited to have you today.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:02:58] Thank you. I’m excited to be here.
JENNA FISCHER [00:03:02] Good. We were texting and I know you were texting with Angela as well, and you told us that you have not seen an episode of the show since it aired, but that you were going to watch “The Job” today. How was that experience for you? I’m dying to know.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:03:18] It was, it was really interesting. I felt like there’s moments that really, really shined. And, and then there’s, you know, the writer part of me that’s like, oh, OK, I think I would have done that a little differently now, but I didn’t think there was anything that was embarrassing.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:03:35] No.
JENNA FISCHER [00:03:37] You are so hard on yourself. This is an amazing, delightful episode.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:03:41] I know you, and you’re such an amazing writer, and I can see you watching things through the filter of like, oh, and you’re a producer and you direct. So I imagine you’re watching it through all those different layers.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:03:57] Yeah, yeah. There’s everything. It’s like framing. It’s like, oh, OK, should we have done, ah. Or that was repetitive. We already said that.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:04:05] Paul.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:04:05] We didn’t need to do it again, but then I get really impressed with some other stuff.
JENNA FISCHER [00:04:12] Well, we do always like to start by asking people how they came to be on “The Office”. You are one of our original writers and you were with us the entire nine seasons. You were our showrunner as well for a period of time. How did it come about that you were on the show?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:04:29] Well, I had worked with Greg Daniels before and known him very long time, and we did “King of the Hill” together, and when they started the show, I, you know, I stopped by the pilot. You know, I had nothing to do with the pilot, but I stopped by a few days and it was, I just kind of love what was happening. And it was, you know, I loved the British. And so then when it got picked up, I was, I was psyched that he asked me to come on. So this was like kind of a very traditional thing that writers and actors are kind of separated on a TV show, you know, and they’re kind of asked not to talk. And he, at this point was questioning a lot of those like rules. Why was this happening and does this really make a better TV show? So we talked about roles for, it was Mindy and B.J. and myself and Mike. And then there was a couple of consultants, it was Lester and Larry. So the four of us each got little roles. I guess Mike’s didn’t come on, Mose didn’t start that season. But so we talked about just doing a little thing to kind of have the experience of being an actor. And hopefully it would inform our writing. So here he wanted to kind of break that down together, so I feel like, I’m not sure how Toby happened, but I feel like I left the room and I came back and they said, you’re going to, you’re going to play this part. And it was one line, you know, in “Diversity Day” about, you know, I say this one line and get kicked out of the room.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:06:10] Now, I heard, Paul, and you tell me if this is true. I heard that at the table read they had you read that line and that Steve, as Michael jumped on you so viciously and everyone erupted in laughter because you sort of almost reacted a little bit as yourself and a little bit maybe how you thought Toby might, you know, but you still didn’t know who Toby was at that moment, right? You’re still discovering who is Toby?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:06:34] There were early table reads where it was just for like weird contractual reasons, just the main five actors. And I was, I was reading Kevin.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:06:46] Yeah. You read a few roles.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:06:48] Yeah. And I think I did. Well, I think I got laughs as Kevin.
JENNA FISCHER [00:06:51] I think that the supporting cast wasn’t there because you were guest stars and you were not series regular. So in a series regular contract, you’re required to do the table read. It’s part of your acting deal, but I think they have to pay you more.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:07:07] Oh, to attend those?
JENNA FISCHER [00:07:08] If you don’t have that kind of contract.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:07:11] That sounds right.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:07:12] Yeah. You know, it’s interesting because I, as a guest star, they, they say you’re invited.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:07:17] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:07:18] Right? Not required. You’re invited if you would like to come. And I always do. But, but I think you’re right, Jenna, it wasn’t until after “Booze Cruise” that we started coming to table reads.
JENNA FISCHER [00:07:27] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:07:28] So Paul, you read a bunch of roles and, and everyone laughed when Michael jumped on you as Toby. And I feel like that helped seal the deal.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:07:35] But we also didn’t expect that part to come back ever.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:07:38] Oh, that’s how they got ya. That’s what Mike Schur, that’s what Mike Schur said about Mose. It was just supposed to be a silly photo, you know?
JENNA FISCHER [00:07:46] Yeah.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:07:47] Yeah, that’s right. He started as a photo.
JENNA FISCHER [00:07:49] And then years later he had to walk around with that beard for like a whole year, a whole season, because Greg wouldn’t let him use a fake one.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:07:59] Yes.
JENNA FISCHER [00:07:59] And it all started because he was just going to be in a photo.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:08:02] And then the fake one looked better, I think.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:08:04] Yes. And then he was furious because he had had that huge beard and the fake one work just as well.
JENNA FISCHER [00:08:12] Well, Paul, how was that experience? Was Greg right? Did you feel like you learned from the experience of being an actor?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:08:21] I absolutely did. But it took a while to get there. I don’t know if you remember, but we were doing this kind of room bit about like my acting school.
JENNA FISCHER [00:08:29] I do remember your acting school bit.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:08:32] So OK. So imagine going into acting, knowing nothing about acting. And the first thing you’re being taught is take your water bottle off your desk, and put it underneath your desk. So, because the, the label isn’t cleared. All right, that’s now the first thing I know about acting, you know, and it was like things like that, that made up my acting school.
JENNA FISCHER [00:08:54] I remember.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:08:55] Also, I remember Rainn would just ride you so hard like you go, “Hey, Kate”. She goes, “Hey, Paul”, and you’re like, “Dang it”. Because you were, she was supposed to be Meredith in the moment, you were in a scene.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:09:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:09:05] And I remember Rainn would like tease you so hard.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:09:11] Yeah. There was very little acting I was doing. The, there was a breakthrough moment for me. They kept saying talk louder and I wouldn’t. I was like, no. You’re, I’m talking to a person right here. Why would I talk louder? And-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:09:25] You just ruled out multicams for yourself. But that’s OK.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:09:29] Yeah. And theater. All of theater.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:09:31] Yeah.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:09:31] And then so, I was, we were doing a kitchen scene and they kept telling me to speak up. And then Brian said, “Why don’t you imagine? Like, this room is artificially quiet because they turned off the refrigerator. Right? Because of sound. Why don’t you imagine that the refrigerators on? And you have to talk over it”. And I was like, “Oh, an actor does that”. You know? It put this like, and it wasn’t just like one little thing, it was like, oh, an actor has to put all these, all those little details. It has to justify anything that needs to be done. They don’t just do what feels real. They have to like find a way to do what they need to do and make it feel real.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:10:14] I love hearing that.
JENNA FISCHER [00:10:15] Is this something that you’ve brought to other projects, Paul? As a writer, showrunner, creator of shows, have you asked your writing staff to act at all?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:10:25] I did. Let’s see. On “Ghosted”, I had Blitz’s brother, Andy Blitz, and I created a part for him.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:10:33] Well, I have to say, and Jenna and I have talked about this a lot, and we talked about this when Greg came on as well that we loved that we got to be around the writers. We loved when we got to go up into the writers’ room, sometimes we would shoot over in the warehouse and there was that back stairwell that went up where your kitchen was with your snacks and we would come up and hang out.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:10:55] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:10:55] And, and it was really fun for us to have you guys on set. And it’s hard for me to imagine other shows now without that creative collaboration and that feeling of safety and trust. And we’ve all worked on other shows where it is not the case and it’s, it’s something that I really cherish.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:11:15] Yeah, me too. I, Greg was right. It was, it would, breaking down that wall made us understand each other a lot better. And we all worked together.
JENNA FISCHER [00:11:24] Well, speaking of having to team up for this episode, “The Job”, you teamed up with Mike Schur. You guys co-wrote this episode. How did that work?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:11:34] I have kind of a memory of, you know, this was at the end of the season. Had a long season and a lot of episodes are lit-, or written different ways. So it wasn’t that Mike and I went off into a room together and then came out this show. I think that we both were running the process of writing this episode together, you know, and we would, we beated it all out with, some writers would come in and out, but we would be the two people that was there making sure the episode was what we wanted. And then he would go take a scene, I would take a scene or he would take a few writers to take a scene, and I would do the same. I think that’s basically how this one worked.
JENNA FISCHER [00:12:18] It’s funny that you mention working in groups like that, because I remember there were times on the set where Greg would call me offset. He would say, “Jenna, are you in the scene? Are you in this scene? OK, I’ve got three writers talking about Jim and Pam. I want you to sit in on that. Go in there. Go in there”. Oh, my gosh, I would get so excited. I would be like, “Oh, I can’t wait. I can’t wait”. And I mostly just listened and sometimes I would throw out ideas. But that was so cool. Because you guys would kind of divide up a script and like a group of three people would go work on Dwight stuff and then another three people would work on some other aspect of the story, at least from my, my little bit of experience in the writers’ room.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:13:05] Well, it was, it was episode by episode. You know? And some came in, some were really like conceived by the writer and went straight all the way through. And some were extremely collaborative. But even when a writer did it by himself or herself, there was, there was tons of discussion about what was going to happen.
JENNA FISCHER [00:13:25] Mmhmm.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:13:26] Well, a big storyline in this episode is that Jan and Michael get back together and Jan has had breast augmentation.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:13:37] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:13:37] And we’re so curious about this storyline. Like how did it come about? Did you talk to Melora about it? And working with Melora and Steve? What was that like?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:13:46] I think there was a card on the wall for a long time, that said, “Jan gets a boob job”. And we were kind of looking for the right place. And then so we had them break up. She gets a boob job and because of that, they get back together. It was something that happened during “Cocktails”. Jan did this super long talking head on the lawn of the-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:06] Yes, in front of David Wallace’s house.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:14:09] Yeah. In front of David Wallace’s house. And in writing that, we kind of discovered how Jan was on the road to self-destruction.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:18] Yes.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:14:20] Like that crystallized it for us. It’s like, oh, she’s taking herself down. Once we got that, this was like a stage in her spiral.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:29] Well, it’s so brilliant. I just thought Melora and Steve, just once again, their dynamic as, as Jan and, and Michael, to me, it’s just so good.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:14:39] It was so good.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:14:40] I could watch them all day.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:14:42] My favorite part of the episode was when she came back in, for the first time, and, and he’s just looking at her and, and Jenna, you’re right there and you’re looking down and he’s like, why, why, why privately? Why privately?
JENNA FISCHER [00:15:01] I loved how I was put right in the middle of the two of them.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:15:03] Yeah, it could have been just such a normal little dud of a scene, but he walked this line of being mean and, and trying to be polite and shocked and-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:15:19] Freaking the f out.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:15:21] Freaking, freaking out and making it all real at once.
JENNA FISCHER [00:15:25] Yeah.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:15:26] It was so funny to see him do that.
JENNA FISCHER [00:15:31] I have to ask you, who is responsible for Creed thoughts?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:15:37] I think that was a Mike talking head. And then Jason Kessler did it on the blog. He did a blog of Creed Thoughts on NBC.com, I guess.
JENNA FISCHER [00:15:46] And he was your writer’s assistant, is that right?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:15:48] Yeah. Yeah. And then he kind of took over the digital media stuff.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:15:54] I texted Creed about it this week. I was like, “Creed, do you remember Creed Thoughts, your whole blog”? He was like, “Yeah, yeah. That was fun. I didn’t write any of that”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:16:03] But that went on for a year. That blog that Jason wrote as Creed.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:16:08] Yeah. Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:16:09] OK, so this episode introduces the Schrute Bucks, which are hilarious. And who came up with that? And also I saved one. I have a Schrute Buck.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:16:19] You do?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:16:19] Yeah.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:16:20] Is it framed?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:16:21] No, I guess, I guess I should frame it.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:16:23] Frame it. Frame it.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:16:23] It’s probably, it’s like in a scrapbook bin, that I haven’t gotten to.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:16:27] Oh. Well, that’ll do it.
JENNA FISCHER [00:16:28] Is it a large one or a small one, Angela.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:16:30] It’s the large one.
JENNA FISCHER [00:16:32] OK.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:16:33] And I don’t know if you guys remember, I think it’s a deleted scene, but Creed tries to flood the, the value of the dollar, try to flood the market. So he has this deleted scene where he’s photocopying like crazy and he’s looking around, make sure no one’s seeing him. And then he wheels in to Dwight, like Dwight’s new office, this whole cart full of thousands of Schrute Bucks. And he’s like, “I’m going to flood the market with these babies unless you pay up”. So my memory is they were everywhere on set. We had stacks of them.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:17:10] I forgot about that scene.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:17:12] Yeah, it’s not, it didn’t make it, but it’s really funny.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:17:15] Yeah, that is funny. I think that Justin Spitzer thought up Schrute Bucks.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:17:22] Oh he’s so funny.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:17:24] I’m not 100 percent. Yeah he’s great. And he loved, he loved Dwight. There was a lot of Dwight stuff over the years that came out of him.
JENNA FISCHER [00:17:31] Well, Justin did twin absorption we found out.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:17:34] Yes. Yes.
JENNA FISCHER [00:17:36] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:17:37] That brings up an interesting thing to me, Paul, is that I remember over the years there’d be different writers that would just really love a specific character like Mike Schur’s loved to see Angela Martin fall apart. I could always tell when it was one of his scripts.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:17:52] Really?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:17:52] My character would spiral out. Did you have a character that you love to write for?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:17:57] I loved doing everybody, I think. But Creed was always fun. Kevin was, was always like fun to just push to the limits.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:18:07] Yeah.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:18:08] Until eventually doing one where he didn’t know the alphabet. I remember going that far with him and just, I was laughing so hard during while he was doing it. Michael. I still, sometimes, like I’m driving and I think of like a Michael talking head I want to write, you know? It’s, it’s, his voice is just so clear in my head, it’s so distinct.
JENNA FISCHER [00:18:34] Yeah.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:18:35] I miss that character, I miss writing for him.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:18:37] Well, Paul, do you have like a favorite scene or moment from this episode or anything you want to share? Like a favorite moment? It doesn’t even have to be from this episode. But if there was one.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:18:46] I really laughed out loud when Hunter, when he was telling Hunter, “Tell her I want to squeeze them”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:18:55] Yeah.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:18:56] “She’ll know what I mean, it’s code. And them tell her blaaaah”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:19:00] Yeah. Now, I looked in the script and the second part was not in the script.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:19:05] I had a feeling, oh, good. I’m glad you checked it out, because I was, I was wondering. I bet he improvised that.
JENNA FISCHER [00:19:10] But the first one was. The tell her I want to squeeze them, she’ll know what it means, was in there. Yes.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:19:16] And then I loved when Jan finds out she’s fired and she storms into Wallace’s room, they have this kind of screaming match and he tells her off. And I loved how strong David was. Like he was just so collected and I felt like, yeah, that was just really solid character to have, ’cause so many people are just kind of scared or inhibited to say the truth on that show.
JENNA FISCHER [00:19:37] Mmhmm.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:19:38] OK, so then there’s this moment after she leaves where Michael standing behind the door frame and says, “I didn’t tell her”. He has something like, it wasn’t me who told her. And he can’t even look. And he’s, he is, the way Kwapis framed it was he was kind of like, the door frame was right coming down in the middle of his face.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:20:01] I loved, I loved when, you know, Jan is just like letting David Wallace have it. And Michael is in that same spot you’re talking about. And for one moment, he’s like, yeah. And then David Wallace is like, excuse me? Like just with a look.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:20:15] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:20:15] And Michael is like, nope, nope. OK, OK.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:20:16] I just meant-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:20:17] Nope.
JENNA FISCHER [00:20:20] Well, we got one question from a fan, Paul.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:20:24] OK.
JENNA FISCHER [00:20:24] And I have to ask. This is from Sarah McGinty and Zu-Yi Wang. They want to know, “Why didn’t Karen get the job at Corporate”? Because you set up that one of the requirements for the job was sales experience of four years, but Ryan, we don’t think has worked there for four years and he’s never made a sale. Why did David Wallace choose him? They want to know, “Did you do this so that you could get B.J. off the set and into the writers’ room so he could do his writing job”?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:20:57] No, probably opposite. It was, I think we felt we would get a lot of fun comedy out of putting Ryan as Michael’s boss for a while. You know? He was the temp that came in. He’s clearly a really good bullshitter. But, but it’s, but incompetent. And I think that’s how he got it. I think we say he went to management school for a little.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:21:22] He got an MBA, right? That was one of the things.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:21:26] Yeah, so I’m not sure how he did that. Maybe at night. But I mean, the reasoning in the real world, you know, could have been he just really kind of dazzled David with the MBA and said all the right things so I could see, I can see it happening. But, but the real reason was like, you know, it was it was time for Karen to leave the show and, you know, what we were doing with Jim and Pam for Season 4. And then, and then we thought it would be just a fun dynamic switch.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:22:00] I think it’s-.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:22:01] And we were always looking for these pairings, you know, switch people up. Who hasn’t been together in a while, you know? So we have all your pictures up. What about you and you? Have we done a scene with? What if you were his boss, you know? And you’re always like, stat-, you know, status games and improv or power dynamics, just switching them up.
JENNA FISCHER [00:22:18] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:22:18] I loved it. I just loved it so much. I could really see why Ryan at Corporate would just be, it’s almost Shakespearean. You know? It’s like Michael thinks of himself as the king and this like lowly like peasant just, just went right past him, you know, on the food chain.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:22:35] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:22:35] And I love that he was like, give me a coffee. You know? And then, and then now, now Ryan just jumped right over him. And is going to be at Corporate. And just the way he says goodbye to Kelly, he’s like cold. It’s, he’s cold hearted. But you can see that there’s going to be some fun there.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:22:55] “We’re done”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:22:56] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:22:56] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:22:57] He’s like, “We’re done”.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:22:57] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:22:58] Paul, is there anything when you look back and you think to yourself, I wish we had done this scene because I remember there was a card on the writers’ room wall for years and years and years that never got made. And it haunts me. And it said “Double date”. And it was going to be a double date with Jim and Pam and Dwight and Angela.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:23:22] Ah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:23:22] And I always wish we had seen that double date. And I even remember being in the writers’ room and hearing you guys try to justify why Jim and Pam would agree to go on a double date with Dwight and Angela. How could you make that happen?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:23:36] Or vice versa. How? Why, why would Angela ever attend?
JENNA FISCHER [00:23:41] And I think dinner party was sort of that, right? We all did go out on our kind of double, triple date there. Quadruple date, really, with, since Dwight brought his babysitter. Were there any cards that you remember that you had to leave on the wall, you had to leave them behind?
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:24:01] I’m absolutely sure there were. Double date would have been fun. Sometimes it’s, it’s finding the killer joke, like maybe, you know, we should have just been pitching on, what is the hysterical thing that’s going to happen? As soon as we find that, and you’re like, oh, we’ll do whatever it takes to just like-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:19] Paul, thank you so much for coming on “Office Ladies”. We were just thrilled to have you and-.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:24:24] Thanks for having me on.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:25] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:24:25] Well, thanks, Paul. It was really good to see you. And I hope that we can have another get together really soon.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:24:33] I hope so too.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:34] All right, Paul, hugs.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:24:36] All right. Take care, guys.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:37] Bye, Paul.
JENNA FISCHER [00:24:38] Bye.
PAUL LIEBERSTEIN [00:24:38] All right. Bye. Bye.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:43] Well, that was just too much fun. I love it when we have writers on the show and Paul is the writer actor. He brings such a cool perspective, right, Jenna?
JENNA FISCHER [00:24:52] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:24:53] Well, listen, we want to give Paul a shout out here. He has a really funny new project coming out spring of 2021. It’s going to be on Audible and it’s a show called “Captain”. He said it’s like an old time radio show and it’s a sci fi, but it’s anti sci fi.
JENNA FISCHER [00:25:08] I loved this description.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:25:11] It’s an anti sci fi, Jenna is like I’m on board. It has Will Forte, John Malkovich, Rainn Wilson, Adam Scott, Wyatt Sinack, Gillian Jacobs, lots of funny folks be looking for it, Spring 2021. “Captain” on Audible.
JENNA FISCHER [00:25:25] Yeah. He said it’s like they’re all out in space but there’s nothing sci fi happening to them. Which I just thought was so funny. I, I can’t wait. I can’t wait. Well, listen guys, we will take a break and then when we come back we will start breaking down “The Job”. All right, so this episode opens with Michael at Corporate for his interview. Which is tomorrow.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:25:58] Yeah, he got the day wrong and now he’s got to cover his butt.
JENNA FISCHER [00:26:02] Yeah, he’s trying to save it and he does a horrible job.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:26:06] Yeah. And I wanted to point out something while him and David Wallace are talking, I looked at reception, no plants at reception Corporate.
JENNA FISCHER [00:26:14] Oh, my gosh. Now you’re, now you’re tracking the plants at Corporate reception.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:26:20] What’s wrong with me? But at 33 seconds, there is a really good shot of some dried brown sticks in the back? It’s like sticks, big, tall looking sticks. I mean, they’re not really alive. Right? This is some kind of decor.
JENNA FISCHER [00:26:36] Well, clearly the receptionist at Corporate is doing something right. She doesn’t have to keep any plants alive. She’s just got a jar with sticks. I like it. Pam could learn something.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:26:47] We should get into the episode. So Jim arrives to work and Jenna, Jim has a new haircut.
JENNA FISCHER [00:26:55] He does. Meredith thinks it looks sexy.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:26:57] Oh, yeah. And Kevin thinks he could look worse. Andy immediately says, “You’re no longer Big Tuna. You’re Big Haircut”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:27:06] Well, we got a lot of fan questions about this, Angela, Samantha Patiño, Kayla O., Katie Noldert, Jess Con, Natalie Payne and many others wrote in to ask, “Was Jim’s haircut a writer choice or was there another reason he got the haircut”? It was both.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:27:23] It was both. It was both.
JENNA FISCHER [00:27:25] It was in the script, but it had to be in the script because John got a haircut.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:27:29] Well, John was doing a movie with George Clooney and Renee Zellweger called “Leatherheads”, and it was like, it was set in a different time. And so he had shorter hair. But it worked out perfect for the story because I think it’s great that Karen’s like, “You need a haircut, you’re going to interview for Corporate”. And, and Jim did kind of have this shaggy hair, you know?
JENNA FISCHER [00:27:50] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:27:51] So I like that Karen, as the girlfriend, was like, you got to clean it up. But there were a few episodes this season. Some of you guys have asked that, that as, as John’s hair was sort of transitioning back from that haircut of the movie, that he did wear a wig.
JENNA FISCHER [00:28:03] Yes. And we have not talked about that, which is so crazy to me. But yeah, after he got the super short haircut for the movie, he came back to “The Office” and he had to wear a wig for a while, where his hair grew out. And then finally for this episode, I think they felt like it had grown out enough that it looked like a more modern day haircut. So they, John is, this is John’s real hair, folks.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:28:25] Yes. Yes. You guys, I went to the “Leatherheads” premiere and I met John’s family and I could not believe it. I walked up to the group of them and John was like, “Hey, guys, this is my friend Angela”. And they turned around and they were the tallest people. John is the shortest of his brothers, guys.
JENNA FISCHER [00:28:45] And he’s like 6’3.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:28:47] He’s 6’3. He’s the shortest. I was like, oh, my gosh. It was like, it was like we’re from two different planets, but they were so lovely and that was so fun to be able to go support him like that.
JENNA FISCHER [00:28:58] Yeah. Yeah. That was really cool when he was shooting that movie, actually. We would get excited for each other when we would get these jobs and we’d be like, “Tell us all about it”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:29:08] I know, I was like, George Clooney, come on.
JENNA FISCHER [00:29:12] I know.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:29:12] I wanted to point out something, though, with his talking head. You know, he says that Karen suggested he get a haircut for his interview and Jenna, this is major girlfriend moment. I mean, A, it shows that Jim is actually really listening to Karen. You know?
JENNA FISCHER [00:29:28] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:29:28] You’re changing your look, especially when you’ve had the same haircut or same look for years and years. That’s a big deal. And so he took her advice and I thought, oh, wow, their relationship’s really solid, like I was believing it. I’m like, wow, Jim’s all in. And then I thought it also shows that he, he really wants to get the job.
JENNA FISCHER [00:29:49] Well, in this episode, there are going to be a ton of misdirects. We do not show our hand for what the end of this is going to be at all. And coming back from “Beach Games”, it was like, what is going to be the repercussion of Pam’s confession on the beach? And so to open this episode with Jim and Karen stronger than ever, Pam is like, listen, it went great. It was fine. She has that whole talking head where she’s like, “I know it only took me three years to summon the courage to tell Jim my feelings. But, you know, I’m glad I did it. And now it’s over. We’re all moving on”. That’s how we opened this episode. We’re all moving on. Jim has a haircut. He likes his girlfriend’s advice.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:30:34] I was really, I don’t even know the word, like in awe, maybe, of Pam’s talking head about how she was like, I have no regrets. It needed to be said. And I said it. Because I would have been horrified. I would have been so embarrassed. Like that I had this huge, like, emotional speech in front of all of my coworkers, but then you got to show up to work the next day with everyone in the bright fluorescent light. Ooh.
JENNA FISCHER [00:31:02] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:31:02] Well, they do tease her a little bit. They’re, they’re a bunch of deleted scenes. There’s a runner and we’ll see one later. But you do get made fun of a little bit, but lovingly by everyone.
JENNA FISCHER [00:31:13] Yes. Well, next up, Michael is in his office. He calls Dwight in and he explains it’s time for me to name my successor. He hands Dwight an envelope.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:31:25] Yes. And inside there is a written note from Michael that says, “Dwight, congratulations, Awipe. Don’t screw the pooch”. This brings-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:31:37] And Dwight begins sobbing, sobbing.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:31:40] Sobbing, tears. I listen to the DVD commentary and they said in the commentary that Rainn as Dwight went on and on so long sobbing, they just let him just sob. Ken Kwapis just let him go and let him go. And, and Ken said it went on for so long and Steve started saying, “You know what? Just forget it. Give me the letter back. I take it back”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:03] Well, we had a fan catch in the scene.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:32:07] Oh, what?
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:07] Which was really delightful, Angela. Christina Warez and John Sperry wrote in to say, “In Michael’s office, when he hands Dwight the letter, you can see an outlet on the wall behind Michael and it is upside down. What is going on here”? And oh, my God, Angela, it is. It is right around 3 minutes, 11 seconds by the coat rack behind Michael. It’s an upside down electrical outlet, like the little hole part is on the top and then the two lines are underneath it.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:32:39] I know, I know what an upside down outlet would look like, but thank you for-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:45] Well.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:32:45] Thank you for walking us through it.
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:48] Well, if you want to see one, go to 3 minutes and 11 seconds.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:32:51] Well, that’s a great catch. You guys know I will go back and look for it.
JENNA FISCHER [00:32:55] Here’s something, Angela, of course, we know that that outlet didn’t really work. It was just a fake outlet cover, but it did get me wondering. So I went to the website, FamilyHandyman.com.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:33:09] Oh lord.
JENNA FISCHER [00:33:10] And it says that there is actually no right way to install an outlet. You can install it, quote, “Upside down, you can install it sideways, it will not affect how the outlet works”, it actually said, quote, “It’s up to you”! There’s no standard electrical outlet orientation, so there’s really no such thing as an upside down outlet.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:33:33] Well, that makes sense.
JENNA FISCHER [00:33:36] It does make sense, I found it interesting, I feel like my, I definitely need to tell my dad about FamilyHandyman.com.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:33:42] Oh, your dad will love it.
JENNA FISCHER [00:33:44] I also want to say before we move on that I noticed that there are also two light switches in the middle of Michael’s wall underneath a giant framed picture. Now, that is odd. Why would you put your light switches there? I guess it’s because when you walk in the door, he has like glass, so you can’t, but he has to walk real far into his office to turn on the lights. I’m just saying.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:34:12] Well, you know what? He never has to do it because Dwight gets there early and sets up his office for him.
JENNA FISCHER [00:34:17] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:34:17] Michael doesn’t even know where those light switches are. He’s never had to turn them on.
JENNA FISCHER [00:34:22] Well, they’re right there under the picture. You know what, Angela? You spot plants. I’m going to be on the lookout for outlets.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:34:30] Well, between the two of us, look out world.
JENNA FISCHER [00:34:33] That’s right. Well, next up. Oh, this scene between Pam and Karen.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:34:39] Oh, my gosh. I thought Rashida did such an amazing job because she had to react to so many things as Karen. First of all, she’s graciously, I think, trying to let Pam off the hook. She’s like, you know what? It happens sometimes. We just have those moments. We say things we don’t mean. And then Pam was like, oh, no, I meant it. I’ve thought about it a long time. And Karen, the look that comes over her face, she’s like, oh, that’s how it is.
JENNA FISCHER [00:35:11] Yeah, and then she has her talking head where she’s like, “Pam is kind of a bitch”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:35:17] Yeah. Yeah. I would be ticked off. I would not be happy with Pam.
JENNA FISCHER [00:35:24] Well, here was my thing as the character of Pam, because in watching it as an audience member, I, it, that, it was rude. Like Pam is not being great in that scene, but-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:35:34] Not being great in that scene?
JENNA FISCHER [00:35:36] What?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:35:37] She’s also flirting with Jim in front of Karen. It’s like all bets are off with Pam now. She walked across these coals. She’s feeling empowered. And-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:35:45] When did she flirt with Jim in front of Karen?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:35:48] Um, hi. “I like your haircut. I like it”. Smile. Come on. Come on.
JENNA FISCHER [00:35:55] OK.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:35:55] Right out of the gate. And then later, when he’s leaving for Corporate, she’s like, “Good luck”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:36:01] Oh, my gosh, you have such strong feelings. I didn’t know.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:36:05] I feel like Pam is openly flirting with Jim in front of Karen in this episode.
JENNA FISCHER [00:36:10] OK, my back story as Pam. It’s one of those things where when you finally get your voice, you just say everything, you lose all of your editing for a period of time, right? Because you have to try on this new way of being and you’re going to, you’re going to mess it up sometimes. She’s, the pendulum has swung in the other direction and Pam is really living in, oh, I’m sorry. I hold nothing back now.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:36:39] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:36:39] I give, I give zero F’s. I say it all and y’all are going to have to live with it. That’s the world Pam is in right now.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:36:47] Yes. She has an auto corrected to sort of like a happy medium. She’s just swung real hard one way.
JENNA FISCHER [00:36:53] She has. Well, then Karen suggests to Jim that they leave for New York tonight and they should get a hotel room and hang out in the city.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:37:03] Oh yeah. Karen is like, let’s get out of here, because that bitch behind reception is coming for my man and we need to go.
JENNA FISCHER [00:37:11] Well, Ang, we actually had a fan catch from the scene. Anna Ohan and Ishan Vicant both wrote in to say, “At 4 minutes, 43 seconds, when Karen suggests leaving early, Jim says he has too much paperwork to do and then he signs a document in pencil. Who does that”? Did you notice? He signs his name in pencil.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:37:32] I di-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:37:32] That’s such a good catch.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:37:33] I did not notice. I did not notice. But I sort of just feel like, none of them do any real work all day.
JENNA FISCHER [00:37:43] Hannah Settle, also has a fan catch for the scene, and it involves you.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:37:49] Oh, what am I doing?
JENNA FISCHER [00:37:51] At 4 minutes, 33 seconds, Angela and Kevin are talking together in the background and she wants to know what are some of the things you guys would talk about during scenes when you were in the deep background? Because I watched this scene twice, once, so that I could watch Jim sign in pencil and then two, so that I could watch you and Brian in the background. And lady-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:38:14] I know.
JENNA FISCHER [00:38:15] It’s just you and Brian just chatting back there.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:38:15] I know. No, I know. I know. I actually, I actually chuckled to myself when I saw the scene because, you know, they had a standing there so we would be in the shot. They would often do that. They would put Brian and I had a file cabinet and Oscar could stay at his desk because he was in the line of sight. But they would have to pull Brian out and me out. So we would stand at those file cabinets back there. And you guys, we are just shooting the shitake. We’re just like, you know, just like, oh, hey, do you guys want to grab dinner? Yeah. What’s up? And Oscar’s job was to be our lookout, OK? He didn’t sign up for this job. We just made him do it. So he would under his breath, “Guys, camera’s swinging around over. Camera swinging over” and then sometimes-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:38:57] So that you could like suddenly like snap back into character.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:39:00] Yeah. And then sometimes he wouldn’t catch it. And then all of a sudden, Brian, and I would love it if there was one moment during the run of the show that it was on camera. He would flick me, you know, he’d like flick my arm, like, “Stop talking”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:39:14] That’s amazing.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:39:15] We’re just, you know, we’re just the idiots back there just chatting it up in accounting.
JENNA FISCHER [00:39:20] Well, speaking of accounting, we have a very strange scene now where Kevin asks Jim who he thinks is hotter between Karen and Pam.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:39:30] I called this the “Kev Perv Alert”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:39:32] Yeah. Kevin starts listing off all of what he believes to be the various attributes of Karen and Pam. And Jim. Jim is like eventually he’s like, you know what? I think you should take the rest of the day, try to figure this out and get back to me.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:39:49] Well, at 5 minutes, 37 seconds, you see Jim kind of put his hand up to his chin like he’s considering this. Hmm, right? Kind of thinking about this, in the DVD commentary, John said that was his Mike Schur impression.
JENNA FISCHER [00:40:04] Oh.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:40:04] That right in that moment, he was being Mike Schur.
JENNA FISCHER [00:40:07] Yes, that’s really good.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:40:09] He snuck in an impression in the episode.
JENNA FISCHER [00:40:12] I love that.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:40:14] So now Pam goes into the break room and you guys, there are more of these scenes where she gets teased, but this one made it in. Oscar teases her and everyone kind of laughs about her big speech she made to Jim. And Stanley’s like, “It’s the most I ever saw you speak. I mean, I thought is that Kelly”. And Kelly’s like, “No, that was pathetic”. Like, that’s-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:40:34] I know.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:40:34] “No, I would never do that. No offense”. And then Meredith is like, “Well, you know what? Everyone was drunk. No one remembers that”. And Creed goes, “Oh, I do. I blogged about it”. And now we find out that Creed Bratton has a blog.
JENNA FISCHER [00:40:48] Yes. Ryan explains in a talking head that last year Creed asked him how to make a blog. But Ryan just opened up a word document and told him this was a blog. And he said that he did that in order to protect the world from Creed’s thoughts.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:41:07] Yeah, because he said even for the Internet, they’re pretty scary. So then you see Creed working on his blog. And of course, you guys, I had to screengrab it and see what he wrote. So the top of his blog says www.CreedThoughts.gov.www/ CreedThoughts. And this is what the screen says, “Creed Thoughts. Heyo, everyone out there in Syber world”. Cyber spelled with an S. “It’s old Creed Bratton, coming at you again”. So we get to see his last name, which I love Jenna.
JENNA FISCHER [00:41:40] Yes, yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:41:42] Yeah. So it says, “It’s old Creed Bratton coming at you again. Here from my perch as a Quality Assurance Manager at Dunder Mifflin Paper. Just a few observations on the world around me. What do you guys think is the best kind of car? To me, you can’t beat motorcycles. They’re small and dangerous. I got into a car”. And that’s all you see. And I, I have to say this.
JENNA FISCHER [00:42:06] Go ahead.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:42:06] I have to say this to Ryan. Fictional character, Ryan. I don’t think that’s so scary. I’m like what? Why can’t Creed blog about he, that he likes motorcycles?
JENNA FISCHER [00:42:19] Well, there obviously is something that we’re not seeing.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:42:22] I guess so.
JENNA FISCHER [00:42:24] Well, we talked to Paul a little bit about this, and he mentioned that Jason Kessler, our writer’s assistant, actually did write for a little over a year, the blog of Creed Thoughts for NBC.com. And by the way, if you would like to look for it, you can still find it. It is at Blog.NBC.com/CreedThoughts. I looked at it. There are so many amazing things. He has a whole story on there about how he stayed late one night at the office and he found a squirrel in Michael’s safe. That’s one of the stories.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:06] What?
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:06] Yes, yes. He says he’s so glad that he figured out the combination of Michael’s safe because it ended up saving a squirrel’s life. He would like to know why Michael put a squirrel in his safe. That’s one of his entries.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:20] Creed, did you really put it in there and then you forgot about it?
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:24] It’s possible.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:24] It’s possible.
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:27] But you can check it out, it’s still there.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:29] That’s so fun, that’s so fun. I didn’t know it was still active. That’s so fun. Well, now Michael visits the accounting department and he’s talking about his new job and how he’s already sold his condo. And they’re like, whoa, whoa, whoa. What’s, what, what? And-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:43:47] I love this scene.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:43:49] I remembered when we were doing this scene. At the end of the scene, we improvised all of that. And when I was watching it, I was remembering that. And then I went to the DVD commentary and Ken Kwapis said, “Yeah”, he was like, “The scene didn’t really have an ending. So I just asked the accountants if they would improvise, sort of reacting to Michael. And that’s how we went out of the scene”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:44:11] I think this scene is such a great example of the three of you as an improvisational trio. You guys work so well off of one another, your deliveries are spot on. And I noted it when I watched it, Angela, and I went to the script and Ken Kwapis is right. It really just ended with Michael giving the news that he’s already sold his condo on eBay. That was the button. But I think this scene is brilliant because of your reaction. And I’m so glad they left it in.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:44:45] Well, I love that it made it in and I really loved our little accounting pod. We so clearly knew our characters and how they would react to one another at all times. And we were rarely ever on the same page. But in this moment, all three of us have similar reactions. I say, “Who gave you that advice”? You know? And then Kevin and Oscar all chime in. And for once, the accounting department is all, all on the same page.
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:13] Well, we had a fan catch in this that I absolutely love from Adelia L. Who said, “You guys have mentioned that Phyllis was constantly looking at fences for her home”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:45:27] Please tell me she caught the fence on her computer.
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:32] “At about 7 minutes, 20 seconds, I think she’s looking at fences on her computer in the background of the scene”. Angela. This is amazing. Because you know how you were mentioning that sometimes you would check to see if you were in the background.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:45:50] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:45:52] At 7 minutes, 10 seconds, Phyllis looks over her shoulder to accounting, and I swear that what she’s doing is sneaking a look to see where the camera is. And I think she thinks she’s not on camera because right after that, she clicks on a website to look at fences.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:10] Yes, that’s exactly what she was doing.
JENNA FISCHER [00:46:14] Yes. It was amazing.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:15] You guys, Phyllis looked at fences for like a year.
JENNA FISCHER [00:46:20] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:20] Like, like for months and months trying to, and we would, you know, she would want our opinion and we’d go over and we’d look at fences with her.
JENNA FISCHER [00:46:29] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:30] So many fences.
JENNA FISCHER [00:46:31] It was great.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:31] So many fences.
JENNA FISCHER [00:46:32] Well, now, Angela, speaking of scenes that I just absolutely love, this next one with Dwight and Angela in the kitchen and Dwight is telling Angela about his new promotion. He is going to have Michael’s job. Oh, it’s so good.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:50] It’s so good. It’s one of these Shakespearian moments between Dwight and Angela. Very MacBeth. Right?
JENNA FISCHER [00:46:57] Yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:46:57] And once again, they’re not facing each other, you know? So Angela doesn’t even see his face.
JENNA FISCHER [00:47:04] And at the end, Angela, you say, “Goodbye, Kelly Kapoor”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:47:10] Oh yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:47:10] And that was not in the script, lady.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:47:13] I know. I know. So, so I got to improvise a little bit right there. And my memory is that I improvised that. And when I listen to the DVD commentary, Dave Rodgers said, “I’m pretty sure Angela improvised that line”. So I just figured she would just be consumed with her own power. And, you know, Dwight has said if he, if he takes over, she gets to be in charge of the women. So it’s sort of a callback. And, you know, Kelly Kapoor has been on her list for a long time.
JENNA FISCHER [00:47:41] Well, I think this is also a callback to “Product Recall”. I think that Kelly went to the top of Angela’s list after she had to sit through that customer service training.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:47:50] Well, no doubt. No doubt. She tried to kiss Dwight at a Christmas party. And then there was “Dwali” and then “Product Recall”. So Angela’s like, “See you later, Kelly Kapoor”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:48:01] Yeah. Who’s next on Angela’s List?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:48:03] Oh, the list is long, lady. The list is long.
JENNA FISCHER [00:48:05] Is it Kevin? Maybe Kevin.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:48:07] Oh, for sure. For sure. And maybe she gets her way in the finale. Just saying. OK. We’re not there yet. OK, well in this scene, Dwight and Angela have this really fun couplet of dialog. Dwight says, “How would you like to spend the night with a Regional Manager of Dunder Mifflin, Scranton”? And Angela goes, “No, Dwight. And I don’t care if that’s how they consolidated power in ancient Rome”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:48:31] And he’s like, “I mean me”. Well, listen, lady, I think maybe we should take a break. And when we come back, we’re going to see what this new power does to Dwight.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:48:44] Oh, well, get ready, get ready for his bed and breakfast in hell.
JENNA FISCHER [00:48:51] All right. We’ll be right back. All right, we are back, and Dwight is taunting Jim about his new position at Hotel Hell.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:05] Mmhmm. And he’s doing one of those hand, what are they called?
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:09] Those hand exerciser things. What are those for? Why am I exercising my hand?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:14] So your grip gets really strong.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:16] So I can hold heavier weights while I’m lifting weights? Is that what that’s for?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:21] Or maybe-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:22] What do I need a strong hand for?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:23] Maybe. Maybe if you wrestle. You can grab someone and hold real tight. I don’t know.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:29] I don’t, I’ve never understood why I would want my hands to be super muscularly. Muscularly? Muscular.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:37] I feel like, I feel like my husband has one. And I know, I know with baking, like he’s kneading all kinds of dough and bread and doing stuff. And I feel like, I feel like he’s got real strong hands.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:50] Oh, wow, do I need one of those?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:52] Maybe.
JENNA FISCHER [00:49:52] So that I can knead my dough better?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:49:54] Maybe. Then you’d have like super dough kneading strength? Anyway.
JENNA FISCHER [00:50:01] Maybe I should ask for one for Christmas.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:50:04] Dwight is doing this throughout this whole ridiculous, I don’t even know what it is, a dream or fantasy of his of this insane Hotel Hell. And then Jim just takes him to task so calmly. He’s like, “Wait, wait, you’re the manager. You don’t, this is your fantasy. You don’t even own it”. And he’s like, “I co-own it with Satan”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:50:25] Yeah. And he’s like, “I just want to make sure I’m clear that your wildest fantasy has you as the co-owner of a bed and breakfast with Satan in Hell and, but you only make 80,000 dollars a year”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:50:38] Oh, yeah. Dwight’s like, “Wait, wait, wait. I haven’t told you the best part”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:50:41] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:50:42] “Best part. I make 80,0000 dollars a year”. Now, Jenna. So here’s the thing. I, I saw online that fans of “The Office” were like, you know, if you divide 80,000 by 12 you get like 6666.66667 or something like that. And I was like, oh my God, do the writers do that on purpose?
JENNA FISCHER [00:51:02] They must have.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:51:03] They had to have.
JENNA FISCHER [00:51:04] They must have.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:51:05] Well, what a brilliant little layer they gave that then.
JENNA FISCHER [00:51:08] We had a lot of people writing about that. Rebecca Womack, Beth Jones and Paulina Jay and Jake Moss all also noticed that 80,000 dollars a year is $6,666.66 per month.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:51:21] That’s pretty cool. I mean, that’s, I mean, I like little details like that. I think that’s fun.
JENNA FISCHER [00:51:26] You know, if that were my salary, I think I would be a little bit weirded out. I don’t think I would want to have a salary. I wouldn’t want to get checks. I mean, I guess you take out the taxes and everything, your check wouldn’t really say that. But even still, in my mind, I think it would weird me out because do you know what I had for a very long time?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:51:46] What? What?
JENNA FISCHER [00:51:46] I had, I had a credit card and, you know, you have your little three digit secret code?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:51:54] Mmhmm.
JENNA FISCHER [00:51:54] My secret code was 666.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:51:56] Oh no, no, no. I’d say get that away. I’m not having any of that.
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:01] I would be on the phone trying to buy something like, let’s say I’m ordering a pizza. And they’d be like, “What’s your credit card number”? And they’d be like, “And the security code”? And I would always be like, “It’s, un, it’s 666”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:16] And what would they say?
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:18] They, people would be like, “What”? They would laugh. It was. And I’d always have to be like, “I know, I know”. And I wanted to like, just intentionally get rid of this card so they would issue me a new one. And now that’s not my security code anymore. But-.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:34] I imagine that’s like layered because it’s like, on the one hand, that’s creepy. It’s creepy. And then you have to say these creepy numbers. But then you also now have chitty chat. When you just want to order your pizza.
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:49] Yep.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:49] Now, that person’s hearing it for the first time. So they’re like, oh, my God, that’s weird. Yeah, I know. How are you going to change it? I’m going to try. But like, over and over for two years.
JENNA FISCHER [00:52:59] For two years.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:52:59] Well, then Dwight has a talking head. He says his first order of business will be to demote Jim, which means he will need a new number two. His first choice would be Jack Bauer.
JENNA FISCHER [00:53:11] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:53:11] You know, from “24”, but he’s fictional and unavailable. This was a nod to Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant.
JENNA FISCHER [00:53:19] How so?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:53:20] They loved “24”. Loved “24”. They were obsessed with it. They both got cameos on “24”. I went-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:53:30] What?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:53:30] Yes, and I watched them. So Ricky Gervais was in the 6th Season. His scene did not make it, but you can find it online and I guess it’s on like the DVD box set or something. And he’s having this comedic moment in the Oval Office. It’s totally random because, you know, “24” is such a drama. The stakes are so high.
JENNA FISCHER [00:53:49] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:53:49] But he’s in the background with his longtime girlfriend, Jane Fallon. They got to be in the show. And then later on, Stephen Merchant makes a brief appearance. He doesn’t have a speaking role, but he’s CTU worker. He wasn’t credited on the episode, but he is there. He’s in the background when they cut to CTU.
JENNA FISCHER [00:54:07] So he made it, he made the cut.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:54:08] He made it in. He has no lines, but he made it in. But I guess this little reference to Jack Bauer from Dwight was a little nod to Ricky and Steven, from the writers.
JENNA FISCHER [00:54:19] I love that. Well, now something major happens.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:54:25] Two major things happen.
JENNA FISCHER [00:54:26] Jan shows up at the office. Unannounced. And we talked about the scene a little bit with Paul/ Where Jan and Michael are standing at reception with Pam between them. And Michael is trying so hard to have boundaries.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:54:39] Oh, I loved it when she walked in and he goes, “Why are you here”?
JENNA FISCHER [00:54:46] And Melora is being that very, very scary, sane version of a crazy person.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:54:54] Oh, oh, for sure.
JENNA FISCHER [00:54:55] Like in the horror movies right before they turn on you.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:54:58] Yeah. No, it’s that moment where you’re like, “Hi, lovely”. And then it’s like, ahhhh.
JENNA FISCHER [00:55:04] Yes. Like you’re wondering, wait, are they a cyborg?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:55:07] Yeah. “I made you coffee, honey”. Wah, wah, wah. With the knife.
JENNA FISCHER [00:55:11] Yes.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:55:12] Yes.
JENNA FISCHER [00:55:13] Yes. Super creepy. She goes into his office and Michael is like, “I need all my ladies”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:55:22] Def Con 10.
JENNA FISCHER [00:55:23] In the conference room.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:55:23] Def Con 10, Pam.
JENNA FISCHER [00:55:26] Immediately, except Meredith, who’s an alternate.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:55:29] Yeah. Well, so now Pam has to go tell everybody, right? So she goes up to Karen and she’s like, “Hey, Michael needs us. Jan’s here. He’s freaking out”. And Karen is so passive aggressive in this moment. She’s like, “OK, listen, before we leave, would you make copies of our sales reports? Would you go make some copies? Would you photocopy some stuff for me? Oh, for my boyfriend, who I, I’m about to go to New York with for the night. Will you make us some photocopies”? That’s the subtext.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:01] Yeah, I know.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:03] I’m just going to, I’m going to take a minute. I’m going to put you in your place, Miss Receptionist.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:08] Yeah, she does. It’s true.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:10] And then though, Pam, Pam leaning hard into this new like I’m gonna say stuff when I want to say it, looks right at her and goes, “I hope you get the job”.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:21] Yeah. Little Pam Sass.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:23] I want your ass out of here.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:25] I’ll make your copies.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:26] I want your ass gone.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:27] I’ll make you 12 copies. How about that?
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:30] You can shove them where the sun don’t shine.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:33] OK, so Jan explains to Michael, she gives her plea. She says that after their breakup, she went on vacation.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:42] Another vacation.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:44] Yeah, but she’s made some big changes and she really, really misses him and she wants to get back together. Michael runs out of the office and into the conference room.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:56:55] Def Con 20.
JENNA FISCHER [00:56:57] And all the women in the conference room are like, “Michael, no. Do not get back together with her. You have to stay strong. She doesn’t make you happy”. We are, we’re good. We all agree. Michael’s like, “Yes”.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:57:10] Yeah, so now he feels empowered, he’s going to go in and tell Jan, no. No, we are not getting back together.
JENNA FISCHER [00:57:18] Yeah. But he walks back in his office and Jan has taken off her jacket to reveal that she has had breast augmentation surgery.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:57:27] She is wearing a white, very tight little knit sweater with a plunging neckline.
JENNA FISCHER [00:57:35] Yep.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:57:36] And she’s got a bodacious set of tatas.
JENNA FISCHER [00:57:39] She does.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:57:40] That are like “Hello”. And his eyes, he, he walks and he’s like, what?
JENNA FISCHER [00:57:45] Oh, my gosh, because he’s such an adolescent. He cannot take his eyes off her chest. And she knows it. This is going to appeal to Michael.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:57:55] Absolutely. Absolutely. She knew what she was doing.
JENNA FISCHER [00:57:59] Well, we had some people ask, “Did Melora get a breast augmentation for this episode”? No. No, she didn’t. They designed this crazy bra for her that was filled with like a gazillion little cutlets. And then they did this like makeup shadowing on her chest to create even more illusion of like swollen cleavage and all of that. And I do remember poor Melora from this point forward would have to put that on for every episode now.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:58:35] I listen to the DVD commentary and Ken Kwapis and Melora were part of this commentary and they said they had a meeting to discuss her boob job storyline with Greg. So it was Ken, Melorra and Greg, and they really had a, like, earnest conversation about what size they would be. Like how big would Jan go.
JENNA FISCHER [00:58:57] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:58:57] And how much of a visual joke would this be. And Melora said this whole storyline was just a lot of fun, that they, they just, it was just a really fun thing for her character. And just part of that journey that Paul was talking about of Jan really starting this spiral. And she did say that for a long time, people would come up to her and ask if those boobs were hers.
JENNA FISCHER [00:59:22] Oh.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:59:22] I know. Poor Melora.
JENNA FISCHER [00:59:26] Poor Melora. Oh, my gosh. Well, it works. Michael gets back together with Jan. He says it was not for the boobs.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:59:35] No.
JENNA FISCHER [00:59:35] It wasn’t for the boobs.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:59:36] No, of course not. But he’s so-.
JENNA FISCHER [00:59:39] He said that would be shallow and this is actually emotionally magnificent.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:59:46] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [00:59:46] So, yeah, he’s going to give this relationship another try.
ANGELA KINSEY [00:59:49] Yeah, well, Jan walks out into the bullpen. Oh, by the way! I can’t believe I forgot to bring this up in the very beginning when she shows up, Michael goes, “Janet”. And I was like, what? I forgot her name was Janet.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:03] It is?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:04] Yes, when she enters the office and I’m sorry to take us back a minute. He says, “Hello, Janet”, and I’m like, Janet? That’s my sister’s name. And-.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:16] But is that just Michael doing Michael?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:18] No,. No. I looked it up. Her character’s name is Janet and her nickname is Jan.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:26] Wow.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:27] Yes.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:28] Wow.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:28] Mmhmm.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:29] There you go.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:30] Janet Levinson. Gould. Dropped the Gould.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:34] She’s not with Gould anymore.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:36] No. And so she walks into the bullpen and now everyone sees her new boobs and everyone is having their reactions. You know, Meredith is like, “Waste of money. I find that guys are way more interested in the back of you than the front”. In her experience.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:53] Oh, Meredith.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:53] And I thought Kate did such a great job with that talking head, she just throws that line away, she doesn’t put too much on it.
JENNA FISCHER [01:00:59] Yeah.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:00:59] And she did a brilliant job. And Pam, once again, trying to flirt with Jim is like, “Oh, my God, they’re so big”. And he’s like, “I know”. She’s just trying to flirt. She’s trying to flirt.
JENNA FISCHER [01:01:11] She wants to be friends again. She’s being friendly.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:01:14] She wants to be friends with benefits.
JENNA FISCHER [01:01:16] Well, she wants to be more than friends.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:01:18] Yeah. While everyone is reacting to the boobs, we have another pretty big storyline, which is Dwight is going to start interviewing his new number two. And the only person who signed up was Andy.
JENNA FISCHER [01:01:30] Yes. Which leads to this amazing interview scene between Dwight and Andy. It’s like a rapid fire Q&A session.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:01:40] Yes.
JENNA FISCHER [01:01:41] And it’s so great. We had a fan question from Seth Jason Tan and Zu-Yi Wang, “How much of the dialog between Andy and Dwight was scripted when Dwight is interviewing him for assistant to the Regional Manager”? Well, guys, everything you see in the episode was scripted, but there was so much more in the script. Angela, is that stuff in the deleted scenes? Because it was so funny on the page.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:02:07] There are great deleted scenes, Jenna, from the scene and apparently there’s even more that we’re not even getting to see on the DVDs. I listen to the DVD commentary and they said these guys went on and on and on, and then they went past the scripted stuff and they just started improvising. And, and Kien Kwapis said Rainn was just throwing the craziest stuff at Ed. And Ed did not miss a beat. Like, like, “All right, walk me through an appendectomy”. And, and, and Ed as Andy is like, “All right, you sterilize the area, you make an incision”. You know, he just, you know-.
JENNA FISCHER [01:02:46] Amazing.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:02:46] Did this whole thing. They’re great deleted scenes on the DVD. But I think there’s even more that we don’t get to see.
JENNA FISCHER [01:02:51] It was amazing. I absolutely loved it. And Dwight has no choice. This is his only choice.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:03:00] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [01:03:01] Which is so great. Well, we’re going to end this Part One of “The Job” with Michael finally leaving for his interview. He is holding Jame’s breasts.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:03:13] Well, they’ve shut the blinds, but they’ve only shut them on one side of his office. They left them open on the other side. And so the camera gets this little, I used to call it a peep shot. That’s not what it’s called. Sneaky shot, spy view. Sneak, spy, spy shot.
JENNA FISCHER [01:03:30] You got it, you got, got there. Spy shot.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:03:33] And-.
JENNA FISCHER [01:03:34] You found it.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:03:35] I got there. Thanks for thanks for sticking with me. Michael is just cupping them. He’s just holding them. He’s, like, so happy.
JENNA FISCHER [01:03:42] Just holding them in his hands. And then he has this crazy talking head where he says, “Two weeks ago he was in the worst relationship of his life and now he’s in the best relationship of his life with the same woman. Isn’t love a mystery”? Angela. I mean, can you get a breast augmentation and heal from it in only two weeks? Is that enough time?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:04:16] I know. I thought she was gone longer too. It seemed like to me they hadn’t been dating for quite some time. Because he had-.
JENNA FISCHER [01:04:25] I thought there was a bigger passage of time.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:04:27] I do, too, because when he walks over to accounting, he’s like, I haven’t talked to Jan in ages. Right?
JENNA FISCHER [01:04:33] Well, I know that “Women’s Appreciation” was two episodes ago. But I thought there was more time in real life that had passed, so that bumped me when he said two weeks. I was like, wait, what? And also, like, I just would think her boobs would still be so sore. I mean, I don’t know. Should I look it up?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:04:56] I think this was maybe a continuity error in writing, but I think he said a longer passage of time when he went to accounting.
JENNA FISCHER [01:05:02] Well, according to PlasticSurgery.org.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:05:06] Yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [01:05:07] Most surgeons agree that full recovery can take an average of six weeks or so, but that many women notice they feel fine after about only one week. So there you go.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:05:18] But I still think this is a continuity error because of what he said in accounting.
JENNA FISCHER [01:05:22] I think so, too. Well, Michael goes to Pam and he says, “Pam, you gave me great advice, but Jan’s was bigger”.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:05:33] Yeah. Jan’s advice was bigger.
JENNA FISCHER [01:05:36] So Michael’s going to say his goodbyes. You know, he really believes that he’s leaving for the very last time. He believes he’s going to go to this interview and get a job at Corporate. And he and Jan are going to live happily ever after.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:05:48] He sold his condo. The man is leaving. In his mind.
JENNA FISCHER [01:05:54] He plays exit music and he bids everybody a good night and a good luck.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:06:00] Yes, he plays Natalie Merchant on a tiny little tape recorder.
JENNA FISCHER [01:06:04] And after he leaves, Dwight slaps his name on the door and says, “Who’s ready to work”?
ANGELA KINSEY [01:06:12] And guess who’s smiling?
JENNA FISCHER [01:06:14] Oh, she’s so happy.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:06:16] This is a big moment for them. This is a big moment.
JENNA FISCHER [01:06:21] Well, we will end there for this week. Next week, we will keep breaking down this episode. Jim, Karen and Michael will all arrive in New York for their interviews. Dwight fully takes over Dunder Mifflin with Pam as his secret assistant to the Regional Manager.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:06:37] Oh, yeah.
JENNA FISCHER [01:06:38] That’s all next week.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:06:39] Oh, yeah. It’s a good one, guys. Thank you so much for listening in. And thank you, Paul Lieberstein, for being our guest. We will see you next week with “Job, Number Two”.
JENNA FISCHER [01:06:49] It’s a date.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:06:54] Thank you for listening to “Office Ladies”. “Office Ladies” is produced by Earwolf, Jenna, Fischer and Angela Kinsey.
JENNA FISCHER [01:07:00] Our producer is Codi Fischer. Our sound engineer is Sam Kieffer. And our associate producer is Aynsely Bubbico.
ANGELA KINSEY [01:07:06] Our theme song is “Rubber Tree” by Creed Bratton.
JENNA FISCHER [01:07:09] For ad free versions of “Office Ladies”, go to StitcherPremium.com. For a free one month trial of Stitcher Premium, use code “office”.