June 20, 2022
EP. 324 — Two Married People Have An Affair
Chris speaks with a man about having an affair with a married woman he met at work and the aftermath of his decision. He opens up about getting divorced and losing friends. He also shares how his bipolar disorder affected the marriage and the importance of focusing on his mental health now.
324 — Two Married People Have An Affair
Chris Gethard [00:00:05] Hello to everybody who enjoys my work a little inappropriately. It’s a Beautiful/Anonymous. One hour, one phone call. No names, no holds barred. Hello. It’s Chris Gethard. You’re listening to Beautiful/Anonymous. I feel so lucky that you’ve tuned in. Thanks for downloading the episode. Thanks for checking out the show. Thanks for supporting it. Thanks for telling friends about it all these years in. We still get to do this. Still get to feel the love, the enthusiasm, as we bring these human conversations to the world. And I know because I tell you what, I’ve been out there on the road and I’ve been meeting people who still listen to the show actively. I’ve been doing the live shows. Last week we we had one of our live shows. We released our show from Ann Arbor at the Big Time Goof. And I tell you, the comments came in on the Facebook group, and I watched them with with glee. We had people saying it’s it’s hard- lucky, lucky Lizzy in the Facebook group said, it’s hard- it’s hard for me to run, which is what I do when I listen, when I’m alternating between laughing and saying out loud, wtf. I got a lot of comments like that. Maggie said this was like a funhouse of emotions. Andrea said, I haven’t even made it 10 minutes in yet and I’ve been cry laughing. This is, I tell you, do this- you do the show live in Michigan and crazy stuff happens, it turns out. And I saw one of my favorite types of comments from somebody who checked in and said, you know, I haven’t really been participating in this Facebook group that much, but I just popped in just to say that I really like this one. That’s cool to hear. It’s cool to hear that there’s people out there who still take the time to go, I’m still part of this, maybe a little bit- that was Eduardo said that I haven’t participated in this group a long time, but I simply have to say this was one hell of a call from one hell of a goof. Look at that. If you want to see me live, guess what? I’m gonna be in Southern California on June 23rd, 24th and 25th. 23rd I’m in San Pedro. That shows just about sold out. Go check. But by the time this episode comes out, might be sold out. But San Diego, we’re doing two shows at the Soda Bar on the 24th and those ticket sales are healthy. Would love to see you. You can probably snag one. Los Angeles on the 25th. These tickets are not moving, and I know Los Angeles tends to be a town that waits til the last minute. But if you’re in the Los Angeles area, you want to see my new hour of stand up. It’s very emotional. It’s about me and my son and my dad and how those relationships all crossover. Love to see you. ChrisGeth.com. Gonna be at Zebulon Cafe. Very cool venue on the 25th. Now, hey, this week’s show, very, very excited to bring it to you. This is going to be a controversial one and a divisive one. This is a guy who opens up about having an affair with a married woman while he was also married. It led to a lot of turmoil in his life, as you can imagine. Talks about what happened with the other party’s life. Talks about what led to it. These choices. Talks about what the choices led to, their ramifications. Highs and lows. Mental illness. And, you know, one of those very tricky things that someone who is mentally ill, one of the things he and I talk about, which is sometimes that stuff leads to really ill advised choices. And it is also medical. Things will crossover. And it’s it’s going to be a very hard one for people to listen to and decide how they feel. I’m going to ask to please look for compassion, look for empathy, even though I have a feeling a lot of people are going to not like a lot of the choices that the caller made. I think the caller might agree with you. It’s going to be a tricky one to listen to and a divisive one. It’s going to bring up emotions. And I’m very fascinated to see what the reactions are.
Voicemail Robot [00:03:53] Thank you for calling. Beautiful/Anonymous. A beeping noise will indicate when you are on the show with the host.
Caller [00:04:03] Hello?
Chris Gethard [00:04:04] Hi.
Caller [00:04:07] Hold on.
Chris Gethard [00:04:08] Who’s that talking back there? (BLEEP) Free plug for (BLEEP) in the background.
Caller [00:04:13] The holy cow. Are you kidding? I’m on here with you?
Chris Gethard [00:04:17] Yeah. What’s up?
Caller [00:04:19] I was. I was literally getting called on to introduce myself in the meeting that I was in.
Chris Gethard [00:04:25] Oh, you’re in. Don’t get fired from work for this.
Caller [00:04:29] Oh no, no. This is way, way, way more fun.
Chris Gethard [00:04:32] And you won’t get in any trouble for blowing them off as they talk about (BLEEP)? That sounded like big time stuff.
Caller [00:04:40] No, but you might need to do things like take (BLEEP) out of the call because it’s very specific to where I live. But anyway, how are you?
Chris Gethard [00:04:51] We can bleep that. We’ll bleep the name of the corporate entity and let’s- you know we won’t delete it- if we can make a note, let’s not delete it. Let’s just bleep it a bunch of times and let everybody know forever what corporation was being mentioned at the top there.
Caller [00:05:06] Dude, I literally was like, it was- they were calling on me as you came on. It was about exactly as I thought it might happen. Horrible.
Chris Gethard [00:05:14] I didn’t. I didn’t. If you need to go do some work, I would I might recommend it because this, this will be fleeting, my friend.
Caller [00:05:23] No way. That was going to be a boring boring meeting. This is was way more important.
Chris Gethard [00:05:28] It’s good. Happy to help distract.
Caller [00:05:30] God I finally made it through. The time so I can keep track of how long we’re talking. Uh I had an affair that ended my marriage, and we kind of bonded over Beautiful/Anonymous at the very start, which and I’ve always kind of just been grateful to you because of that.
Chris Gethard [00:05:59] Hold on. You bonded with your ex-wife or you bonded with-
Caller [00:06:03] The person I had the affair with.
Chris Gethard [00:06:06] So you had an affair that ended in a marriage. And one of the things that you bonded over in the course of connecting was my work.
Caller [00:06:15] Uh huh.
Chris Gethard [00:06:15] Well, I don’t know how to feel about that.
Caller [00:06:17] You didn’t cause it. I’m not. I’m not. I’m not blaming you. I just I’ve always kind of had this connection to Beautiful/Anonymous that started then. It was there was an episode I was actually looking it while I was on hold- of the dude who was like inappropriately overly close with a coworker and he was like calling from a closet. I couldn’t remember what the name of the episode was.
Chris Gethard [00:06:41] I remember that one.
Caller [00:06:41] This is an old one. This is like four or five years ago. .
Chris Gethard [00:06:44] Yeah. That was a while ago. I- there’s been so many, but yeah, I remember that.
Caller [00:06:52] But yeah that episode, like, like I just remember her sending it to me and being like, you should listen to this. And so there’s always been, you know, the first time we kissed, we were watching Career Suicide.
Chris Gethard [00:07:07] No, no, no, no, no, no.
Caller [00:07:09] Uh huh. Uh huh.
Chris Gethard [00:07:12] So she. So if I’m piecing this together, okay? This is very meta. This is very head spinning. So. That’s how you discovered this show was that someone sent it. And it sounds like if I’m connecting the dots maybe you and she had some in a some what would be and we’ll get into the details but some what would have then been inappropriate flirtations and the call with someone who had some similar feelings to a coworker and this person sent it to you like, hey, you might identify with this person because I have a feeling you’re feeling these things about me?
Caller [00:07:50] Uh huh.
Chris Gethard [00:07:51] And then you put on my show where I ramble for 75 minutes about different times I’ve tried to kill myself and you made out with this person?
Caller [00:08:01] Uh huh.
Chris Gethard [00:08:02] Have you ever simultaneously loved a story and hated a story so much? Have you ever had that experience?
Caller [00:08:10] Uh huh. Yeah. Then that’s why I thought it would be of interest to you, both in a, like that same kind of love and hate thing. And then also, because I figured it also would probably make you a little uncomfortable.
Chris Gethard [00:08:23] It certainly does. It certainly does. And now one thing I want to say, and I’ll get this out of the way, and you and I are going to have a good call. And I always roll with the punches on the call. But I will say… I want to know everything. Obviously, I also want to say, like, we’re laughing right now and giggling about it, but I do also want to say there are, you know, there is another party in this who I, I don’t love being, you know, the- I don’t love knowing that I was a step in someone else getting hurt who would be your ex spouse. And I feel like everybody listening right now is like before we laugh too hard let’s also just say cheating is not kind or a cool thing to do. And that, I’m sure, is something you’ve thought long and hard about too.
Caller [00:09:16] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No. And it’s not just- there are several people and several people beyond that. And honestly, it is… At this point, such a small piece of the bigger story, like I am happy to talk about it, but it’s also not- it’s not as relevant as way back when, when I wanted to be on this show and talk about it, when I would have talked about it the whole time. But yes, I agree with you. It is not to be glorified. And I am absolutely not proud of it. And… The- but it’s a part of my history and it can’t be ignored and that detail that I just shared is one that I thought would be interesting to you.
Chris Gethard [00:10:05] Yeah, I feel like, yes, that’s good. You and I are on the same page. Can you and I laugh about the fact that I was what can only be called weirdly involved in the dissolution of a marriage and a love, and the birth of a love affair? Yeah, I can laugh about that now. It also sounds like it tore your life apart. And a bunch of, a bunch of mayhem was left in its wake. And I don’t want to laugh about that.
Caller [00:10:35] No, no. And it wasn’t. It was, you know, I think I was sitting and thinking about kind of how I wanted to think about this and talk about this and um I think the if I were to summarize kind of that, plus everything that’s come since then it’s kind of the idea of how do you know when you’re actually happy?
Chris Gethard [00:11:01] Yeah.
Caller [00:11:02] And, and how the, you know, when you feel happy, how do you know it’s true or and not just a product of kind of the moment. And that’s kind of been, I think, the longer view on all of this. And, you know, to my ex-wife, you know, we we had a good period of time together. But at the same time, we probably weren’t right for each other. And rather than deal with that in a mature and adult way, I kind of just threw a grenade.
Chris Gethard [00:11:43] And when you were watching Career Suicide, when did you lean in for that first kiss? Was it the part where I talk about crashing the car on an effort to kill myself, or the part where I talk about how Adderall made me shit blood? When did you say, Now’s the time?
Caller [00:11:55] So I wasn’t gonna, like, I don’t know the content, but I do know that there was a paused screen of just your face, and that is the part that’s more burned into my mind rather than the actual topic you were discussing at the time.
Chris Gethard [00:12:16] So it wasn’t the part where I talk about how Risperdal made me ejaculate a low, low pressure spritz of water instead of ejaculate. You didn’t say you can’t pinpoint that as the moment you hit pause. Lets cut out to the chase and make out.
Caller [00:12:38] This is the most perfect time.
Chris Gethard [00:12:39] Yeah.
Caller [00:12:40] No, I’m pretty sure that that was not the moment. It was earlier. It was the early stages of the show. You know the flow better.
Chris Gethard [00:12:50] Well, listen, it’s been many years since I’ve done this show, and it’s it’s too painful for me to watch it. But I can say it’s one of the least sexy things ever made in the history of the entertainment industry. So you- there must have been real crackling energy between you, you and her.
Caller [00:13:08] Yeah.
Chris Gethard [00:13:10] And are you in this person still together?
Caller [00:13:14] Oh, no, no, no. I got a divorce, and it kind of re-energized her and her husband in a way that I’m very happy for them.
Chris Gethard [00:13:24] She was married to at the time?
Caller [00:13:27] Yeah.
Chris Gethard [00:13:28] Oh, that’s not good.
Caller [00:13:30] Yeah.
Chris Gethard [00:13:31] Oh, wow.
Caller [00:13:31] And we all didn’t work directly together, but we all worked in the same industry, so there was a lot of…
Chris Gethard [00:13:40] Crossed paths. And did everybody hear about it in your industry?
Caller [00:13:45] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And it was- I thought I thought I had pretty much ended my career. And it was just just a small tight community and most of a lot of people knew. And, and so it was pretty brutal on that. And I kind of just went through my work at the time, assuming that I was going to get fired sooner or later.
Chris Gethard [00:14:14] And did you eventually get fired?
Caller [00:14:16] Oh, I didn’t. No. I’m I’m still still doing that work. Although right now I ditched a meeting for this.
Chris Gethard [00:14:24] Do all of these people still work in the same-.
Caller [00:14:28] Yep.
Chris Gethard [00:14:28] So you all four parties in this still have to deal with each other on some level professionally.
Caller [00:14:35] Periodically. Like, COVID was kind of a well-timed gift in the sense that you just didn’t run into people, whether it be at work or in meetings or in restaurants. And so that kind of created some space that probably, probably was good for everyone. Because there was a long period of time- I still do it to a certain degree- of walking into a place and kind of scanning the room to see if there’s anybody in it that hates me more than usual.
Chris Gethard [00:15:06] Yeah. I mean, that’s- I would imagine that’s one of the things that happens when you go down the roads you went down, is you are now going to have people in your life who used to feel one way about you, and now they have a lot of anger, resentment or, as you say, even hate. And you gotta- that’s a bit of a burden you have to bear now, huh?
Caller [00:15:27] Yeah. I think… It was kind of like there were some people who kind of disappeared from my life, that I was ok with that happening. And then there were a core group who just stuck with me the whole time. And then there was kind of like, there’s only really three people who like I was surprised I lost and sad I lost them. And and and still, you know, wish that I had them with me. But, yeah, it changes your entire- I mean, I kind of at this point don’t have a lot of friends.
Chris Gethard [00:16:10] Let’s pause there. I kind of at this point don’t have a lot of friends. I gotta say, not the most shocking thing to find out based on what this call is. And there’s a lot more revelations along the way. A lot more very nitty gritty details of how situations like this go when we get back. Thanks to our advertisers and help us bring the show to the world. Now let’s finish off the phone call.
Caller [00:16:39] It changes your entire set- I mean, I kind of at this point don’t have a lot of friends. And I’m okay with that. But it’s just that I went from a very different environment to that.
Chris Gethard [00:16:50] So you talked about how this experience is a piece of a story at this point, and the story is about figuring out what happiness is, how you know you have it, how you know it’s real. What’s the what’s the big- what’s the bigger picture aspects of that that you were indicating?
Caller [00:17:13] Yeah. I mean, I think it was the affairs and the end of the marriage was an all time low and um I even got arrested for trying to grab my spouse’s cellphone from her. And um… Someone else who was there, like, freaked out, called the police, and the police said, you know, if you made contact, it’s a it’s an assault. So I literally got lead out of my house in handcuffs, out onto the stret in front of my neighbors and then down to the police station. And all of that was dropped. But, like, it was still just this like, you know, like this moment of, like, I’m in handcuffs. Like, I never thought I’d be here. And I remember the the cop said to me, like we were riding and he looked at me and he just was like, you know, you’re gonna be alright. You’re gonna get through this. And my response to him was like, you know, I’m actually all right right now because, like, all I feel is just relief of just, you know, there’s no there’s not anything to hide. And like whatever’s gonna happen with my marriage is going to happen. Like it was just this like almost sense of a weight being lifted off me.
Chris Gethard [00:18:34] So when you’re trying to grab your wife’s phone, was this was this like in the course of her figuring out what was going on or questioning you about it, or?
Caller [00:18:42] Yeah. Yeah. It was like in the in the confrontation. And… Yeah, it is, you know, I had to tell my boss about it, and it was just it was low. But I think, you know, that sense of relief was an important piece. And then you’re kind of at the spot where you’re like, okay, I’m kind of starting over. And it’s like you have freedom to kind of make choices. I don’t know. It was a good process, even if it was brutal as you’re going through it.
Chris Gethard [00:19:30] Wow. What- because I got to ask, and you must be aware of this, that this is, this is very interesting, and you have a lot to say. And I am excited to talk about it. But you’re not the sympathetic character in this story, right?
Caller [00:19:52] Of course not. No. And I wouldn’t deserve to be.
Chris Gethard [00:19:55] And hearing that you got arrested for something that the police said was assault. That’s also something that I got just got to stop and say, like, I don’t love hearing it. Right? Like doesn’t. Again, another thing where I gotta underline, like, sounds like sounds like you went through a world of shit. Also sounds like you caused a world of shit. And I don’t want I don’t want to not say that. And I’m guessing… I guess I’m left wondering, like, from the perspective of someone where this is an all time low. Perspective where you’re in a cop car going, I actually feel free right now because I’m no longer hiding anything. Like that, that’s like a movie moment in your life and- stop and think about it. Telling a police officer who’s just arrested you, well, at least I don’t have to hide anything anymore. At least whatever’s going to happen is going to happen now. At least there’s all that, the stress of hiding is gone. That’s low. That’s a real low moment. If you could look back. If you, you know, there’s people all over the world right now, there’s people who might be listening to it going, none of this stuff is cool, what I’m hearing. But I sympathize. I’m I’m walking down a similar road. If you could have made some different choices along the way, what are the things you didn’t want to recognize about your marriage before any of this happened? What are the juncture points where you wish, you know, you look, I’m sure you must look back at certain points and go, there could have been an action taken here that could have gone differently. There could have been a conversation that happened about this at this point that would have changed things in a way that was less brutal. I wonder if you think about those, because I think that could possibly be very useful to people who are listening, who might go, you know, I’m in a marriage that has problems, or I’m in a marriage where I don’t think I’m as happy as I thought I was going to turn out.
Caller [00:21:51] Yeah, I think. So you asked um… My mind blanked on it. What would you have done differently? Like gotten divorced early. Or maybe even not, you know, maybe not even gotten married. But looking back with the with the hindsight, like our relationship before we were married was way harder than a good relationship needs to be. But like I didn’t realize it then. And the irony is you kind of can’t realize it until you go through it. And then you also go through one where it’s easy. And then you realize that, hey, this is what it’s supposed to be like. But I think, you know, why didn’t I just do that? Why didn’t I just get a divorce and try to end it in a normal way? I think part of it is you don’t want to admit defeat, like okay, what am I doing wrong that is making this not work? And, like, have I tried hard enough? And, you know, can I be better at what I’m doing in a way that she’ll be happy and we’ll be happy? And so some of that is just kind of like, I don’t want to admit that I failed. I think some of it is just the… You don’t want to be the person who ends it if the other person thought it was so good. I don’t know. And I think I was just a little cowardly, frankly.
Chris Gethard [00:23:42] Wow. So you knew in your heart. You knew in your heart, I don’t want to be in this marriage anymore.
Caller [00:23:51] Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Gethard [00:23:53] That’s really rough, man. That’s really rough-
Caller [00:23:58] There’s a difference between- sorry go ahead.
Chris Gethard [00:24:07] Well, I was going to ask. When you look back on it, had you had you given up? Or did you think it might turn around? Like I’m wondering if there was a tipping point at which you knew. Because it’s one of those things. Every marriage has ups and downs. And the downs can feel really horrible. Right? And then you sit there and you pray that the ups come back. I mean, I can’t imagine- the people who have the best marriages in the world would would say you have to work really hard. So.
Caller [00:24:46] Yes.
Chris Gethard [00:24:47] Had had you given up? Or did you- was there still a party that did legitimately think maybe, maybe we can fix it?
Caller [00:24:57] At the end, like pre-affair, I had given up.
Chris Gethard [00:25:00] You had.
Caller [00:25:01] Like, I think we had put in, like I felt like we were having the same problems over and over. We had put in a lot of work against them and not made any progress. And I felt like it was like, what are we going to see a marriage counselor again? Or at some point you just need to like admit what’s reality. And I think, I don’t know, I was just done trying.
Chris Gethard [00:25:35] Yeah. So at that point, you could have gotten out of there.
Caller [00:25:41] Oh yeah. Most definitely. But you know, it um… Yeah, it was not a good choice. And like I said, it’s not- it’s something I’ll always be ashamed of and feel bad for the various people who were hurt it in. And even our friends, like I mentioned the people who I lost that I’m still sad I lost, like I think they were the biggest aspect of like surprise that comes from these kinds of things where people realize or feel like, I thought I knew you.
Chris Gethard [00:26:20] Yeah.
Caller [00:26:20] And then I think there were some people who kind of saw it and were like, well, what does this mean for my marriage? But I get that. I’m sad that other couldn’t realize that one thing is not the full composition of a person, and that you can-forgiveness and kind of the role of forgiveness, but look, I made my own bed, and I can’t, I can’t point blame anyone else.
Chris Gethard [00:26:58] Yeah. And how many years ago was this that this all went down?
Caller [00:27:05] Oh, where we at? About four.
Chris Gethard [00:27:08] Yeah. And how how are you feeling today?
Caller [00:27:12] I’m great. And that’s kind of that’s kind of the you know, the concept is like, how do you know when you’re happy. You know, right after right after all that happened, I got an apartment and I kind of like just had a period of time where I was operating with kind of two driving things; like, try something new and what’s the worst that could happen? And what’s the worst that could happen is kind of the one that probably was the most helpful and then like dangerous at the same time, because I think it helps you be grateful for the things you have and how lucky you are with everything around you. So even something as simple as like ordering something off a menu that you’ve never ordered before, what’s the worst that can happen? You don’t like your either eat it or you eat something else. You should be grateful that you’re able to have the funds to eat out and that you can go to cool place, so like just do it. But I think when you think about my job and getting fired for kind of what’s the worst that could happen, like, I don’t know. Like, I could live with my parents, I could move across the country. But I think, like, the deepest, darkest side of what’s the worst that could happen is my whole life falls apart and I kill myself. And so like when you kind of feel like, oh, well, there’s always this last thing you can- it can make you sloppy with your decisions.
Chris Gethard [00:28:58] That’s real. That’s very real.
Caller [00:29:03] Yeah.
Chris Gethard [00:29:04] What’s the worst that happens? I kill myself.
Caller [00:29:04] I didn’t pick up on that last part, so, like- but, you know, it’s kind of like it was interesting. There was like a slow burn to get to that, too.
Chris Gethard [00:29:14] Yeah.
Caller [00:29:16] Because usually it was just like something mundane, like, I’ll order another meal. But then it’s like then every once in a while, you’d have that like one slip in like, who cares, I’ll just exit the planet. Unemployed, don’t want to live with my parents, no money. Cool. I’ll kill myself. And I didn’t get too close to that. But like, I definitely recognize it as what’s the worst that could happen. And then I’m okay with that. And that’s a really dangerous, scary place to be.
Chris Gethard [00:29:44] Yeah. Now… Here’s a question that I’m I’m I’m almost nervous to hear your answer. Well, because here’s why. Because you are someone who’s thought long and hard about this. And you clearly- I feel like- because look, we’ve had people call up- even recent calls we’ve had people call and talk about, you know, infidelity. But I don’t know if we’ve had a guy. I think, you know, we’ve heard from people who said, you know, I was cheating on my spouse and then I realized that I wasn’t straight and that I was exploring this side of myself. We’ve had like that version of the story, but this is just a more barebones like, yeah, no, I did, I did somebody else dirty and I’m owning it. And but the thing is, you have not showed any hesitation to say, like, I can own up to what I caused, and I will tell you a truthful answer knowing that people listening might not like it like it. Like you, you’ve been really good about that. And I feel like there’s probably a lot of people listening right now going, I do not like what this guy pulled, but he’s making me respect him because he’s also just owning it. Like, I feel like there might be some people who are listening with that, that reaction right now. So I’m very fascinated to know, because you’ve clearly thought long and hard about this. So you had this life. It was locked down in a way. You realized you weren’t happy. You realized that you had given up on it. And instead of getting out, you went and got really into some nerdy comedian and decided to make out to a sad special. Tore your life down. There’s friends who judge you to this day. You hit a low point with this- all this stuff we’ve heard. Looking back on it now… How much of the unhappiness back then was marriage was unhappy or you were in a situation where you were unhappy? And how much of it was that you internally were an unhappy person and that needed to be fixed regardless of that?
Caller [00:32:04] Good for you for asking that. I’m going to answer it, but I need to I want to circle back on one thing, kind of to what you were saying. I want to make it clear that just because I’m owning it doesn’t make it right and doesn’t make it, it’s not like a free pass that makes it clear and that I get absolution for it. I don’t want people to think that. Just it’s a subtle piece of it, but I want to make sure we call that out.
Chris Gethard [00:32:30] You’ve been very, very honest. Because it is it’s like you’re telling all this stuff and you’re also saying, oh, you know, I thought about killing myself afterwards. I was in the back of a cop car. It was… I think you’re making it very clear that it doesn’t sound like it was pleasant at the end of the day. It doesn’t sound like it was worth it. And I don’t think I don’t think you are presenting it as such.
Caller [00:32:52] Yeah. But to your question about unhappiness, I think you’re spot on with that question. And that’s kind of the… When you think about what I was saying earlier, like how do you know if you’re happy or not happy? Like, I have bipolar. And. And I’m still you know kind of- you’re- I think you’re always learning it. But I had less less awareness and understanding of it during the years I was in my marriage. And the depressive side of it was really, really, really hard on my ex-wife. And it kind of like agitated her in a way that was like, just extra agitating. And I can’t I can’t even really describe that more but like that, that added a layer to our to our marriage. And then I would know that like, hey, I’m depressed and she’s really just frustrated by that, which then makes me hate myself more. And then you get into this little spiral. But yeah, there is tremendous kind of depression and you know, spending the day in my bed or whatever and having that be something that she just she couldn’t handle it.
Chris Gethard [00:34:18] Let’s pause there. Getting real in another way right now. And these things tie together, don’t they? When we look at how when we get back. Thanks again to our advertisers for bringing Beautiful/Anonymous to the world. Now we’re going to finish off the phone call.
Caller [00:34:43] But yeah, there is tremendous kind of depression and, you know, spending the day in my bed or whatever and having that be something that she just she couldn’t handle it. And it wore on her. And rightly so. I feel horrible for having put her through that. And I wish that I had a better control- control is the wrong word but a kind of awareness of it at the time. But you know, I think with bipolar you obviously have the manic side so you’ve got these lows and then you have these highs. And so when you’re having one of the highs, like, the world is just wonderful and everything’s great. And everything you do feels just, you know, like the best thing ever. And so know you can’t trust either of those. The up or the down. Because both of them are kind of having this additional factor weighing on them. So you’re constantly saying, am I actually happy right now or am I just running on a manic episode? Am I actually unhappy right now? Do I actually hate my job or am I just depressed when it seems like nothing makes me happy. So yeah, there’s a tremendous internal component to it.
Chris Gethard [00:36:03] Yeah. That sounds like a perfect storm. Sounds like a well, in the sense of, you know, you saying owning up to the fact that you were massively depressed and that this is a medical issue, which, again, doesn’t give anybody a pass. You’re being clear about that. But then to hear that that caused further disconnect in your marriage, you can see I’ve you know, I’ve been in relationships where my depression has really strained those relationships. And I look back, I remember once someone came up to me, someone saw Career Suicide, I did it in Brooklyn. This was when I was just working on the show. I never forgot this. And she was like, you know, I dated this guy and he was bipolar and I couldn’t handle it. And I just ghosted him eventually. And I feel so bad right now having watched your show. I said to her, and I bet you would agree with this, I said to her, first of all… Don’t feel bad. She was like, Really? I was like, no, it’s it can be a nightmare. It can be a nightmare to date somebody like me. Like I know that I have made relationships harder. And she was like, But what do I do? Because I feel like I understand the guy more. I was like, Just email them and tell him what you’re telling me. He’ll appreciate it. He’ll appreciate it. Like he’ll appreciate that you’re hearing this. You’re figuring this out years later. But also understand, like you’re allowed to get out of a relationship with someone whose depression is out of control if you can’t handle it. Like and so I know exactly what you speak of. And it does beg the question too of- I mean, now we’re getting super real. When you have manic episodes, you do not need to dig deep- the depression side of it people understand a lot more than they used to. You know what depression looks like. Depression presents itself as extreme sadness. Now, having been through it, you and I can both vouch for the fact of it’s related to sadness. But it’s it’s not- if you’ve never been through it, you can’t just go, I know what it’s like to be sad. That sucks you’re sad all the time. It’s more all consuming than that. It is more damaging than that. It’s very hard to describe verbally. But people can at least see the analog. Mania is just as dangerous and in some ways more dangerous because I don’t think people who don’t experience this stuff have the analog in their life. They don’t go, Oh, I’ve been really happy and I see why that’s a problem for you, because when they’re really happy, it’s a good thing. Sadness, they can they can understand that a magnified version of that would suck. But mania is not happiness. It’s like, imagine if you wanted your every minute of every day to feel like you feel when you are at the bottom third of a water slide, is, you know, maybe one way that people might go like, imagine if you wanted your day to day existence to feel that sort of adrenaline fueled and out of control. And it’s different for everybody. And there’s no way to describe it. Point being, this is connecting a lot of dots for me, and I have to wonder if, you know, one way that mania often presents itself is with people acting out sexually. When you look back, do you feel- and again, no making excuses here- this conversation of mental health and people also having personal culpability for their choices, even if they suffer from mental health issues, is a tangled up one that we have not fully had as a society yet. But that being said, do you feel like you were chasing the dopamine that people often chase in manic episodes? Or do you feel like it was a little bit more cut and dry, the marriage is over and I’m straying?
Caller [00:39:40] I want to answer that and I want to come back to mania. But I you know, I’m sure that mania played a factor maybe in the start up, but it lasted for a while. And so and it lasted actually it lasted through a depressive episode. And yeah, I think what kept it going, the affair, was that like… I was I mean it was a fake relationship, right? But like it still gave me this feeling like, hey, I could be happy in a relationship. And how I feel in my marriage, it doesn’t have to be like that. But yeah, I’m sure, you know, the mania was along for the ride at some point. I think, you know, I, I just in the past couple years really understood the mania side of my life. I used to kind of complain that like after I had the bipolar, the diagnosise, this sucks. Like like you call me bipolar, I’m very aware of the depression, but where’s my fun side? And I over the years, I’ve kind of gotten a better understanding. Am I allowed to like plug somebody on YouTube? It’s not at all affiliated with me. It’s just a good doctor on YouTube. It has helped me.
Chris Gethard [00:41:04] Go for it. If there’s somebody who’s helped you, just prepare for the Internet comments that we half people going, Yeah, this person is great, and half people going, this is a snake oil salesman who’s dangerous.
Caller [00:41:14] Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, she’s a she’s a legit psychiatrist. Psychologist. But for me personally, she how she- her- she has a whole series and one of her playlist, she’s a woman named Dr. Tracy Marks. And I think it’s uh but she does a playlist on her episodes on mania. And when she started describing it, like, I don’t know what was different from how I’ve read about it and how others have put it but all of a sudden I was like, oh yeah. I totally have that happening. And so like that was kind of- and whether people like her or like somebody else, the lesson there is like continuing to like we don’t realize how much work like like proper mental health is. Both from like, you know, continuing to to challenge assumptions and your own assumptions about something, and then, you know, finding sources of information that provide the information in a legitimate way, but also in a way that resonates with you. And then with the medicine. Like the medicine is such it’s -you’re constantly tuning it and constantly adjusting. And, and like people will be like, I took a medicine and I didn’t like it, so I stopped. Medicine doesn’t work for me. It’s just not how it works. Like, like I’m like you’re just always, like, having to pay attention to how you feel and then make adjustments because of that. It’s a proactive process that I don’t feel like a lot of people really explain, whereas people are dealing with it. But you know, the mania side, like I literally… My girlfriend when I was going through one, I was going through a bad one and I just I did two things for her. One was I like kept track for two days of all of my little ticks that I noticed. And made a list of them. And now both of us have that list and can watch for it. Because to your point like people don’t realize it’s happening with people around them. They’re just like, Oh, life of the party is here. And you don’t realize like, Oh, you’ve become super productive at work. He’s so engaged. And then you start looking at the checklist like, Oh, I can’t hold still. Like, I’m constantly twitching. Like, I can’t do this. To me, like my mania pieces are very specific. So I gave them to her. And then I also, quite terrifyingly to both of us, like literally just started typing stream of consciousness. One afternoon when I was just feeling especially wound up and I just showed it to her and I was like, Look, here’s what it looks like inside my head. And it was like borderline gibberish by the end of it.
Chris Gethard [00:44:03] Yeah.
Caller [00:44:04] Yeah. And so she’s got that now. She can see it, she can know that she can deal with it. And on the depressive side she knows that I might just spend the day in my room.
Chris Gethard [00:44:16] And this is your current girlfriend.
Caller [00:44:19] Yeah.
Chris Gethard [00:44:19] Yeah, yeah it’s- mania is really nasty and you look you kind of look back to the prior generations and you go, oh, man, like the bipolar people, like bipolar men back, back before, we were comfortable with mental illness as a conversation, bipolar men, you can think back to a lot of guys from prior generations where it was like, well, you were alcoholics who cheated on your wives. And you’re like, oh, some of you were just that. And then some of you were depressives medicating with alcohol because you didn’t want to admit that you needed to see a shrink. And then the cheating was manic nonsense. That was…
Caller [00:45:01] Yeah.
Chris Gethard [00:45:02] Like you look back, you oh, you can see it. You can see how in in the generations that just would not admit mental weakness, you can see, oh, I know people who are like that, who just screwed up their whole lives in two different directions, five different directions. And then manic stuff, if anybody’s out here listening going, I still don’t get it, I would say I remember being in my twenties having a similar thing. The stream of consciousness writing was very eye opening. I don’t know if you would agree with this, but I think some other stuff too is like you start to feel a little invincible and then you start to realize that you’re- I don’t know if you would do this too, but it’s like the people I’m trying to charm the most are actually people who I’m not that close with. Because the people I’m close with are going to go, What the fuck is going on right now? And I don’t want to answer that question. I want the ride to continue. So it’s like you were saying, Oh, the life of the party’s here, but it’s partying with a lot of people I don’t know all that well or who are more acquaintances than friends. Because I’m doing whatever I can to avoid the people that are going to go, you got wild eyes right now and this is not like you. And you know, you start to compartmentalize stuff and keep some things secret because again, you know, okay, I’m getting an adrenaline rush from my behavior. But if people if people start questioning my behavior, I’m going to have to maybe admit to myself that this is doesn’t feel right or it doesn’t feel normal. So I’m going to have one area of my life that other people other people don’t even know about this area of my life, even people really close to me start to get into all those nasty, nasty loops and habits. And it’s a bad thing. And it’s funny… One of the things about the conversation with mental health advancing is that it it means even more so. It’s also not an excuse. It’s not an excuse for other people to get hurt. It’s not an excuse for other people to get left in the wake of it, almost even more so. I think a lot- there was this basketball player years ago named Royce White, I believe was his name. And he had he was very open about his mental health troubles. And this was years ago when people didn’t take it as seriously. And then he you know, he he couldn’t fly because he had such extreme anxiety and he held out. And I remember watching it all and going, I want to support this guy a lot, but he’s also he’s like not getting on the team plane and he’s not traveling and he’s drawing all these lines in the sand. And I don’t know how much of this is how he’s being presented versus his behavior, but I’m going, you don’t want to make it… You don’t want your mental illness to be a reason why no one ever hires another person with mental illness. You know? You want to be the person to kick down the doors. And I’m not judging that guy. Who knows? Maybe the media just presented him as crazy because it was the convenient thing to do. But I think about it a lot of it’s really, really good and healthy that we’re all talking about mental health more. It also means even more so there were probably shrinks and doctors to be helping who could have helped avoid. And I like hearing you say, I don’t know if I can blame my affair on a manic episode. It might have been a factor, but it lasted too long for me to write it off for that. Again. You know, you did a thing that I don’t think anybody’s going to give a thumbs up to. But the way you’re speaking about it now… Very much a straight shooter. And I do appreciate that.
Caller [00:48:15] Yeah. I mean, I like, like looking back on some of the men in our past, you know, like some of them might have had mental illness. Some of them might have just been asshole drunks. And we can’t let like we can’t let mental illness just become the pass for that. I get I always get concerned like it’s the downside of having a conversation about it because I feel like people start to just use it as a as a get out of jail free card.
Chris Gethard [00:48:45] Similar. I have a pretty- For someone who’s been a public advocate about mental health, I also have a little bit of a hair trigger on that too, of like it if anything, it needs to be the opposite of a get out of jail free card. It needs it actually needs to be a conversation that’s so open. It’s a it’s it’s akin to going like, hey, I’m so sorry that I showed up in your house and coughed a lot and got you sick and people going, Yeah, but you could have gone and gotten antibiotics a week ago if you knew you were coughing. Why did you do it? And, you know, it’s almost similar to me of like there’s treatment now and we’re talking about it now. So get treated and make your life better. Make the life of everybody around you better. And find that middle ground where it’s not it’s not an albatross that hangs down on your neck and and negatively affects your quality of life. And also understand that by really seeking treatment, you’re giving everyone else in your life a gift of- by removing the weight from yourself, you’re also removing some weight from them. And, and and everybody gets to see you at your best and get a little bit of pressure relieved from their own lives, too. It’s a gift you can give to everybody else, and it furthers the contract that the people who love you in your life will be able to help you when you do really need that help. It’s a complicated thing. It’s a complicated story.
Caller [00:50:10] Yeah and I, I just, you know, I think my big thing that when I talk to people about my own stuff is like it’s just the people have got to put in the work. I mean, if you want to be if you want to be able to be kind of have a whenever a baseline is, like it’s a lot of work. And it’s ongoing work. And it’s, you know, like if somebody wants to be get big and muscular, like you got to go to the gym all the time. And you got to change the weight machine and you got to try new things. And like, it’s not just like, Oh, I took this and it went away. Like, somebody once likened it to having a bad back. Like, you know, there’s times it’s either hiding or really bothering you, but it’s always there and you’ve got to you’ve got to account for it. And I’ve always enjoyed that.
Chris Gethard [00:50:57] I, I totally agree. And I am left wondering, to hear you say that right now, four or five years out from a point where you’re going, well, the cop car was where I felt safest. And I am thinking the worst that happens is I kill myself. It sounds like right now you’re in a much better place and it sounds like you’ve been doing that work.
Caller [00:51:26] Yeah.
Chris Gethard [00:51:27] Did you in the wake of everything, did you really double down and recommit to I got to straighten my straighten my stuff out and I got to get my stuff under control? Have you been putting in that work? I would have to imagine.
Caller [00:51:46] Not as much as you might want me to say. No, not really.
Chris Gethard [00:51:52] This is why I respect you. You give me the straight answers, dude. You don’t give me the answers I want to hear. You give me the truth.
Caller [00:52:01] Yeah like I had a lot of fun and I’m still (UNCLEAR) but I sort of like I had a lot of just kind of like single just like no- the irony is like if I had not had all those experiences leading up to that, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t know how good it is now.
Chris Gethard [00:52:24] Hold on one moment. Can you hear me?
Caller [00:52:29] Uh huh.
Chris Gethard [00:52:29] Okay. There’s a stretch here.
Caller [00:52:30] Can you hear me?
Chris Gethard [00:52:31] Yeah, I think it might be a problem with my Internet. I’m staying in a weird place. I apologize for that.
Caller [00:52:37] Sorry. I’m still just doing the same laps around the same table that I’ve been doing the whole call.
Chris Gethard [00:52:42] Well, it sounds- it sounds like you basically said, like, again, an answer that’s not, you know, in a movie, in a script, you’d go, here’s all the things I’ve learned. But it sounds like you’re also willing to say part of the work you put in on yourself was you went out, you had fun, you had a life that was an unhappy life, and you went and found the fun. And that was part of it. Is that about what you said?
[00:53:06] Yeah. Yeah, totally.
[00:53:10] Yeah that’s the real shit.
[00:53:11] And, like kind of what I was talking about earlier, how do you know when you’re happy? Like right now, I’m really happy. But then there’s just always this- and it’s a it’s a it’s a life that is so different than my old life. And so you kind of have to- your first question is, okay, am I happy and enjoying that just because it’s novel? Or is it real? And then like, you know, like you just don’t ever quite trust yourself with with where you are because like, it’s like your brain lies to you. And you feel like that’s the- I think that’s what brought my original question of just like, how do you know? You know? But I don’t think you ever can. I think you just have to try to make the most of what’s in front of you and constantly be aware of everything that’s around you.
Chris Gethard [00:54:06] Here’s something else. I wonder if you’ll agree or disagree. Well, because a marriage is a commitment. A marriage, you go through a ceremony, you get a certificate from the government. You maybe you get one from a from a church or religious organization of of whatever you practice. So it is different, right? But at the end of the day too… Oh, I’m almost loathe to tell you, so I think I have maybe mentioned it years ago, but I once dated someone for years, very long time. And when we broke up… Again it goes back to Career Suicide. It talk about it. I fell off the wagon and I did some drugs. That was kind of my I’m unhappy and I, I need to burn it down. And I wish I hadn’t burned it down. For you, the affair eventually he was burning it down, right?
Caller [00:55:03] Yeah.
Chris Gethard [00:55:05] So mine was not as deep as a marriage, but it was a relationship that was off and on for many years. And one thing I look back on, I go… If anybody is out there listening and you’re in a relationship where you know you’re not happy, even if you’re in a marriage where you know you’re not happy… One thing that was really eye opening for me was… You are allowed to leave a relationship just because you want to. And it doesn’t matter what it looks like to other people. And if, if you’re in a relationship where the other person goes, I need to know why… Sometimes it’s really hard and sad, but you are allowed to look at that person and go, I don’t really have a why. I just know this is not for me anymore. And I know that that sucks. And I know that it’s hard, and I know it might be blindsiding you… I just don’t want to be in the relationship. You are allowed to do that. There’s some people, I think, who live in relationships where they feel true emptiness and unhappiness and they feel obligated or bound because they can’t exactly verbalize why that unhappiness is happening. But it’s not a matter of figuring out why it’s happening. If it’s there, it’s there. And if it’s real, it’s real. Now don’t, don’t everybody go out and get divorced based on hearing this on a whim. Lord knows there’s enough people who have made decisions on whims when they discover my work. I’m on the phone with one of them right now. But you’re also allowed to go, I don’t exactly know why, but I am certain I’m unhappy. And I got to put that on the table and be honest with you. And it’s not necessarily your fault. I probably leaned a little juvenile back in my youthful days of thinking, you know, there’s just something that’s not working and you can’t fix it. It wasn’t a matter of if she could fix it, wasn’t her job to fix it. I wasn’t happy. It’s not even necessarily anything she did. That’s just where it went. I don’t know if you would agree with that, but…
Caller [00:57:20] Yeah. 100%. I mean, I’ve told friends of mine, like, you shouldn’t be unhappy in your relationship. Period. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that you blow it up or leave. But you shouldn’t be unhappy. And your happiness is your, your is your responsibility. And so if you find yourself unhappy, then you need to figure out what actions need to be taken to fix that. And there’s a lot of possibilities, but the bottom line is you don’t have to be unhappy in a relationship.
Chris Gethard [00:57:50] I actually think that maybe one of the true marks of a strong relationship is the ability to look someone else in the eye and go, I am not happy right now, and we got to talk about it. That’s a very hard conversation to have, but my guess is that the people with the happiest marriages are also the ones who have felt the most freedom to express unhappiness, which feels like a faux pas. Right? It almost always feels like an accusation or it feels like it’s going to put some cracks in things that you can’t heal. But unaddressed happiness is cancerous, right? That’s a cancer.
Caller [00:58:31] Yeah.
Chris Gethard [00:58:31] I bet a lot of the happiest relationships are the ones where people would turn around and go, You’ve been a real bastard for the past few months and we need to figure out… We need to figure out how to get back on the same page.
Caller [00:58:43] There also needs to be like, it’s one thing to make that observation. It’s another thing for that behavior to change. And that’s the, the harder of the two. I think that’s where a lot of people fail there.
Chris Gethard [00:58:56] Right because then that right- then the next question comes down the pike: do I want it to change? Right? Sometimes I bet people might go… People might be unwilling to go, our relationship seems unhappy. Let’s address it. Because they might go, and that would lead to the end of it. But if it it it sounds to me like you are of a mindset- and I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but… I have to imagine you probably could look back and would have preferred your marriage ended with a sad conversation versus the way it did end. I have to imagine.
Caller [00:59:31] Yes. Yeah, but, but it had to end. And that’s something that like, I don’t, I don’t second guess that aspect of things at all. But it definitely should have ended in a very different way, you know? And that’s, that’s on me. But I think the big thing is that you can be at a spot that feels so low and you can still play through it. And if you want to, you can.
Chris Gethard [01:00:06] Oof.
Caller [01:00:09] And… Because I mean, you know, driving down the interstate and you know which tree you’d run your car into. That’s your low end. And, like, you just have happiness and just an easy, happy life on the other end. It takes work. And like, by no means, by the way, do I have it, like, worked out. Like, I’m still doing a lot of stuff, but it’s been a lot less time picking out trees to drive into.
Chris Gethard [01:00:41] That’s good.
Caller [01:00:42] And, you know, a lot more a lot more time kind of just enjoying people around me.
Chris Gethard [01:00:47] That’s good. And you’re in a relationship now. Have to imagine that you have different thoughts about relationships. We’ve got 4 minutes left, so there’s some daunting ones. Does your current girlfriend know about these incidents in your past? Do you think about potential marriage moving forward? If so, do you think about it differently?
Caller [01:01:12] Yeah. Yeah, she knows, as you may guess, she knows everything. But you don’t wanna go around hiding like that’s one of my like, you know, cause coming out of all that was like, do not live with, with the weight of hiding things and just be honest and live with whatever comes of the honesty. So yeah, she knows and she knew very early. We’ve been together for two and a half years now. Ah. Because I figure the better she understands me and what my past is, the easier it is for her to decide whether I’m somebody she wants to be around. And fortunately, she’s been okay with that so far. Uh, yeah. We think about marriage. I don’t feel any rush. You’re talking about, like, the church and kind of all the formality of marriage. I think one, like I’ve, as I thought about marriage, I think one thing that like gives me trepidation is just the idea of like asking my friends and family to come together again or something like that. Like I just feel silly. And I don’t know. It’s a weird thing that I’ve got to, I don’t know. But yeah, we’ll get married. Like I said, it’s good. It’s as good as I could hope it would be.
Chris Gethard [01:02:37] And are there… There’s got to be a lot of things that you think about where you go, well, if and when we do get married again… Here are some ways that I’m going to behave differently.
Caller [01:02:51] But at this point, like. I don’t mean to minimize the institution of marriage but if I’m not doing those things right now, like I’m saving, like, then, like, we probably shouldn’t be getting married. There is the kind of the institutional aspect of it, but like I don’t feel it’s make sure that I’m going to be good now because I don’t think it would be any different after we sign a piece of paper.
Chris Gethard [01:03:23] Right. Right. That’s a truthful answer. And you know what I like about it is like you’re, you know, effectively in some way what that’s saying is, let’s not pretend that marriage as a concept… Brings with it any keys that unlock things. Let’s not pretend that it’s a Rosetta Stone that teaches you anything new. You got to have your head together and you got to have your heart in the right place. You got to have your priorities straight before you ever get there. And at the end of the day, when you get married, it’s a very cool thing and you might have a big ceremony and you’re going to sign some paperwork, but you are who you were two days before, and you will be that person two days later. And the idea of marriage itself isn’t, isn’t going to give you new tools in your tool shed. Effectively sounds like that’s what you’re saying.
Caller [01:04:25] Yeah. I mean, that you are who you are. And the relationship is what it is, and you can’t hope it’s going to change just because of the ceremony. And that said, like, I’m not I’m not minimizing marriage. I just it’s it’s not like, like you said, it’s not a solution to everything.
Chris Gethard [01:04:45] Now, we have 25 seconds left, and I’m wondering if you have any closing thoughts, specifically because I will say… People listen to these. And then people tweet at me and they talk in a Facebook group. And you got to be you got to know there’s going to be some people who are going to react poorly. I wonder if you you know, your closing thoughts because again, I applaud you. You’ve been so, so, so honest about so much stuff. You have talked about how there’s no excuses. You’ve talked about how it was not a good thing. You’re not trying to glorify it. All of those things. And you put it out there in a way that I actually feel like is what a gift, what a gift, what a raw, honest conversation. But in closing, if there’s anything you want to put out there for people, now’s the time to do it.
Caller [01:05:35] I’m not smart enough to have that kind of wisdom. I will give you this advice. You came to my town and were put in a shit venue and you didn’t like the whole town. And I think you should come back because we have better venues and we’d love to see you again.
Chris Gethard [01:05:53] I’ve never I’ve never discounted a whole town because of a venue. But the only place I’m going to say we’re going to bleep it. So hold on. Anita, let’s bleep it. I have to imagine you’re from (BLEEP). Are you from (BLEEP)?
Caller [01:06:09] Yes. I actually saw that show. It was a horrible location for it.
Chris Gethard [01:06:12] It really was. And then…
Caller [01:06:15] And I’m sorry.
Chris Gethard [01:06:16] No, I won’t say too much more because I don’t want to out you, and I’ve talked publicly a little bit about it, but that was a rough experience. You, you know, you talked about some personal low points. I could say that was in some ways a professional low point for me, but I can’t wait to return because I’ve also been told over and over again- before that show and afterwards- that that town is kind of built for someone like me. I’ve been told that. And I was I was walking around that goddamn town after that horrible show, and people were stopping me like, Yo! You are here. And you know, we’re going to cut off the recording now, okay? We’re going to cut off the recording now. We’re going to say goodbye to the listeners and I’m going to vent to you a little bit.
Caller [01:06:57] You deserve better than what we gave you. And I’m sorry.
Chris Gethard [01:07:05] We’re going to end it there. We’re going to thank the caller. The caller and I talked for a few more minutes offline about that show in an undisclosed city. And I’ll return to that city someday. Don’t worry. Don’t worry. And I know it wasn’t the city’s fault. It was. It was that promoter’s fault. Anyway, everybody who’s listening, take a deep breath. This one brought up feelings, I’m sure, for a lot of people. I’m sure there’s things you wish I handled better. There’s certainly things that I think the caller wishes he handled better in his home life and that you agree with his statement. Take a deep breath and really do realize he is trying to speak very, very honestly. And before you get too Internet-y and expressing your anger, know that there’s ways to express it that don’t throw gasoline in a way that messes up your day. So just think about that. What’s the way for you to express your feelings that’s not going to mess with you? Because there’s a middle ground. Anyway. I’m not trying to say take it easy on the caller. I’m trying to say let’s remember that this is about honest conversations. And that was a very honest one. I thank the caller for having it. I thank Anita Flores for producing the show. I thank Marcus Hahm for engineering the show. Theme song is by ShellShag. Thank you ShellShag. If you want to know about me and when I’m going out on the road doing live Beautiful/Anonymous shows, live stand-up dates, ChrisGeth.com. All the info is there. Wherever you’re listening, there’s a button that says subscribe or favorite or follow. When you hit that button, I can’t even explain how much that helps our show succeed and thrive and increases the chances that it get to keep doing this. So please think about doing it. If you want our merch, it’s at PodSwag.com. Mugs, shirts, posters and more. If you want ad free episodes of Beautiful/Anonymous, you’re gonna go to Stitcher Premium. You can actually get a free one month trial at Stitcher dot com slash premium when you use the promo code: stories.
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