EP. 92 — Wisdom From The Bushman

Bushman: Anybody there?

Chris: Yeah. Are you the bushman I’ve been hearing about?

German Girl: Oh, don’t say your name.

Bushman: Oi. I’m just a Tasmanian, yeah.

Chris: You’re just a Tasmanian.

Bushman: Yep.

Chris: And you like to live off the land?

Bushman: Yeah. Yeah, that’s fair to say.

Chris: What’s…

Bushman: I like the bush.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: It makes me happy, you know?

Chris: Yeah. What’s made you want to shun human society and embrace the bush?

Bushman: *unintelligible mumbles* I don’t shun human society, Cobber. I just, uh, I just found I’m more happier out in the scrubs. You know? Mother’s always out there looking after you. You know? Always feeding you. I don’t drink out there. I don’t smoke out there. You know? Everything’s all good. It’s just around people sometimes I find it a bit hard. When you’re around people all the time you get all peoples, um…you know, you have…you have differences of opinions. You know? Maybe that’s the best way to say it?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: People are pretty angry, you know?

Chris: People can bring out the stress.

Bushman: They need a lot of work to keep them happy. You know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: I like to be happy and I them people around me to be happy and you know…you can work that for a while. You can do that for 3 or 4 months but then it’s time to get to get bush again. But you need to recharge, you know?

Chris: And did you…

Bushman: The best place to recharge is out in the middle of nowhere.

Chris: And did you grow up as a bushman? Or at some point did you become a bushman?

Bushman: Well, yeah. I left home when I was 12 so you tend to um *cough*, always dream. You know? You’re American or something, are you?

Chris: Yes. I live in New York City.

Bushman: You, uh, have a different accent?

Chris: Yeah, I live in New York.

Bushman: Yeah, yeah. Well see, we grew up as the young fella, you know…that Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer, you know? Yeah, any kid growing up wanted, you know?

Chris: Yeah. You want to go on adventures.

Bushman: You wanted to live that sort of life didn’t you?

Chris: Of course.

Bushman: Yeah. Okay so, I’ve done that multiple times now. And I’ll probably do it multiple more times before I go. But that’s, that’s what I enjoy.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: I don’t shun society but there’s no way I can live in a place like New York. Yeah?

Chris: Too many people.

Bushman: No. I can’t…I can’t even live in a town most of the time because there’s too many people. I love people. I like to, make people happy. You know? But I don’t, yeah, I get tired after a while.

Chris: And what’s…

Bushman: My own happiness is more important to me than a lot of other people’s happiness. Sometimes I like to keep, I like them to be happy around, I miss them. And if I can do something that makes, puts a spark in someone’s dark it’s good for me too. But *unintelligible mumbles*…I’m pushy, I reckon.

Chris: Well that’s a very nice way to be. What’s the a…what’s the dating scene like for a bushman?

Bushman: Haha oh mate, you’re null and void Cobber! You’re null and void. I’m not around people often enough uh…to be into that, you know?

Chris: That must get…does that get frustrating?

Bushman: Yeah. You just keep to your own company. Frustrating? No. I mean when I was a young fella, you used to go to town and that’s when you dated. But you didn’t date. You just…yeah, you’re there for one reason and one reason alone. But I found after a while that when I go you to bed, you give a part of yourself every time. And yeah, you don’t feel comfortable with it after a while.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: When you’re serious with yourself and you know…and you know what makes you happy. I mean, we’re all men after all, and that’s a natural thing and all.

Chris: Yes.

Bushman: But yeah, I mean you never know. Maybe one day out in the middle of the scrub somewhere I’ll come across that perfect woman that just likes to travel and doesn’t mind eating whatever you catch that day. And…yeah, but…

Chris: There’s a lot of fish in the sea. She’s out there somewhere.

Bushman: I don’t look much no more. Oh man…there is a lot of fish out there, Cobber. But I tend to stop looking nowadays though. If it’s meant to happen now, it’s going to happen and if it doesn’t, I’m going to be content with the lot I got, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: And I know where I’m most happy and that’s out in the bush. I am, I really enjoy working my favorite *unknown* that’s why a couple of years ago, I decided I know what I’m going to go do and that’s picking.

Chris: Picking?

Bushman: You meet lots of different people. Yeah, picking. Like picking cherries at the moment.

Chris: Yes, yes.

Chris: We’ve picked asparagus a little bit…a while ago. When you do that kind of work, you meet all new people. You, you don’t know them for a long time so you don’t get to see their bad parts. Most people only show their bad parts after you get to know them for a bit, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: And it’s easy, it’s easy to keep people, umm happy when you first meet them. It’s when they see your bad parts, it’s harder to keep them happy. And all of us have bad things about us.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: My bad thing is I tend to…switch off every now and then. You know?

Chris: Switch off? Like become withdrawn?

Bushman: No, well not withdrawn. I just, my mind wanders, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: I’m used to…when a man’s in the bush he doesn’t get radio reception. I have a radio going sometimes. You know, a lot of time I like to talk back to radio. There’s no ring or nothing, there’s no reception, your alone or whatever. I like the voices. I get used to them voices in the background, you know? Their really low, the really low sound on your radio but you never have any more batteries…you have to use them sparingly. Or, or wait until they to warm up in the sun enough to use again.

Chris: Uh huh.

Bushman: And then uh. But yeah, you get used to the sound of voices out there. And when you’re amongst people again, you sort of forget talking to have a conversation with a person. And we could be talking about something and then they’re saying something. One little thing might distract me and I’ll fly off into the never never. And I find thought, then find I have to play catch up and that’s because I’m used to voices in the background noise. You know?

Chris: Right.

Bushman: When voices are background noise you stop paying attention more than you should, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: Which is probably not a good thing for being amongst people but…

Chris: No, it sounds like the bush…

Bushman: What do you reckon mate?

Chris: Yeah. No, it sounds like the bush and it sounds like you’re a man of the bush. I get it. When you’re…so when you’re not picking, you said you’ve taken up picking in the past years. What are the other factors that go into being a bushman? Like what? You’ve said you go to the bush, you enjoy life in the scrub. But what does that actually mean as far as your day to day activities?

Bushman: Uh day to day activities? Alright…I recently, uh well, a couple of years back, I did a trip around the coast. And um, my day to day activities were when you wake up in the morning. You know? The first thought, is right, what I’m going to get for my food today? See? You go about it, you need to be in the coast which is the best place to do it. Especially the east coast of Australia, it’s really good because lots of fresh water everywhere. And that’s, that’s, that’s an absolute necessity. You can go a few days without food but in this heat, you can’t go without that water. So the first thing of the day, is yeah, find the next feed. So, you catch the feed. Usually fish, sometimes pigs if you’re lucky. Sometimes, ah, sometimes you can go out and get yams and stuff like that from the forest. You know?

Chris: Wait, you’ll catch and kill a pig? You’ll catch and kill a wild pig?

Bushman: Yeah. Yeah! Yeah. All the time.

Chris: And those are…they’re angry animals. They fight back, right?

Bushman: You just need a good boning knife.

Chris:  You kill them with a knife?

Bushman: Ahhh no, not if you’re quick. Yeah, the idea is you go quick, you know? So it’s best to have a face, if you can. It’s always best to have a little bag over your shoulder, you know? That way, if they’re charging you face on that’s the best way to kill them quick. You just drop the bag in front of your knee just before you both connect and be ready with that knife in your right hand so you swing around and come in behind that right, or that left front leg as he’s coming toward you with your right hand and you pierce him there and get straight into his heart once, he’s dead on his feet, he doesn’t even know it. He’s got no energy left. If you go on the left hand side, you’re get his lungs. If you go to the right hand side of him that is, your left hand, head on, you’re going to get his lung and he’s going to rip you to shit because yeah, he’s still got all his power. He’s just, he’s just breathing hard, you know?

Chris: Yeah. Yeah.

Bushman: He’ll die eventually, but not before he rips you. So always use your right hand, if you’re doing it head on. But yeah, you’re a bit more rushed too, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: And a buzz but I’ve gotten used to that. It is a bit of a rush.

Chris: You’re an adrenaline junkie.

Bushman: I’ve been catching up in Arnhem Land. I’ve done a bit of crocodile catching up in Arnhem Land. All of it, just you know, you do it for the rush in the end.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: I guess that’s just what you do when you’re out in the bush. When you’re living off the land…every, every day is a rush. So as I was saying before you started off. Your first thought might be you’re looking for food, you know? And then, after you’ve eaten, it’s just you take joy in every little moment, every little thing you see along the day as you’re move along. You have to — you have to, you can’t live in the wrong spot. You have to continually move because the food source is continually moving and you don’t want to wear out one area totally of any food source if you have to come back that way if there’s nothing around you. It’s not a good thing.

41:40

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: You’re continually moving along up the coast, you know? I’ve gone 8 and a half months without seeing a person at times.

Chris: 8 and a half months without seeing a person?

Bushman: Yeah, without seeing a person. I’m going to smoker of cigarettes and all, you know, I took a pack out with me. I’m a heavy smoker. And one day I ran out but I knew that I had enough to get me 4 or 5 weeks into the trek before I’d ridden out, before I’d run out. So anyway two days after I’d run out, three days maybe, on the ground there’s a bit of tobacco. I run back out onto the beach and no tracks anywhere. No people anywhere. I’m out in the middle of the bush line on the coast. And anyway, so I go back and have a bit more of a look around and found a bit more. So I ended up going down to the beach, found some pumice, carved out this pipe. Found a bit of bamboo, made a stem of it, shoved it in it, did it up. It was perfect! I could have sworn it was tobacco still, you know. And after I looked around a bit more, what it was, old coconut halves. The coconuts that sit on the ground that the pigs get into?

Chris: Yeah. Yeah.

Bushman: And the husks were pulled apart and chewed up and pulled apart to get to the coconut itself. And that’s all I ended up smoking for 8 months.

Chris: So now you don’t smoke cigarettes you smoke coconuts?

Bushman: Enjoyable, satisfied the urge. Aye, at that time. I smoke cigarettes here now, because I haven’t given cigarettes up. I found out then that the coconut husk was a perfect satisfying thing. You know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: Satisfied the urge for smoking.

Chris: How does one get into being a bushman? How do you discover that you want to be a bushman?

Bushman: Oh well, see. See I found out a funny way, you know? I was really tired of people. I was really tired. I wanted to give up. The first time I had done it as a young fella, I just wanted to give up. You know? So I went out in that bush with no intention of ever coming back.

Chris: So it was a suicide attempt?

Bushman: Oh well, not suicide but I went out, I know I’ve always fought for living my life. And I knew I’d fight to live but I had no intention of coming back. I knew there was a good chance that I could die out there, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: A very high chance, everybody told me. But when I went out there, I found in a very short moment of time, within 2 weeks, I was so happy with life and everything that, uh, I realized that that is where I really belong. I walked through the mountains one time. I went up to this, to this trip *static* over there, um, close to the Kosciuszko ranges one time in New South Wales. It was, it was just the first snow of the year and I was working up under these trees. Half the bag was underneath the snow and half underneath the trees so I just pulled my legs up, rolled a smoke and it was the first snow that didn’t last long. Later on that day I’m walking up this track. Yeah it was a bit cool. It was drizzling rain and these trackers walking up. They must have had a fire the year before. Yeah it had that burnt smell. You know that fire smell when you put it out with a bit of water or it rained overnight on the fire? And you smell the fire the next day?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: That smell? That coal? It smelled a bit like, ah, that Lapsang Souchong tea if you’ve ever tried that black china tea. You know? That’s Lapsang Souchong.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah.

Bushman: It’s a bit like that smell. But anyway, so you could smell that and it’s drizzling rain and I’m walking up this track. I’m getting wet of course. It’s only a drizzle though. Sun’s sort of trying go through and you got that smell about. And you got all these little birds singing and being happy. It was one of the — it was one of the most enjoyable memories, you know? It’s just that moment where, look, you know, the birds are happy. They’re singing. I mean, the tiny little things in the forest, it’s drizzling rain. But they’re happy, you know? Why can’t I be, you know? And that’s when I first accepted that happiness is really really easy. All you have to do is make it the simplest way you want to be happy. You find out the simplest form of happiness that you got and then use it as you got it, you know? So the simplest form of happiness for me is maybe watching animals as they’re singing or watching children or watching people enjoying themselves. You know? That can make you happy. For me, I find it more being out in the bush and just seeing the beauty that’s out there all the time all around you, you know? Even when you’re hungry, you know? There’s always that beauty. Anyway it’s always very easy to be happy.

Chris: You would hate New York City so much. You would hate New York City.

Bushman: Oh haha you could tell me about that, Cobber! I mean just the, you know, things you hear about. I know there’s cities over here like. Alright, I go into these cities every now and again when I have to go through them. And that’s only passing through. I don’t stay. I learned my lesson years ago. Never stay there. But ah, yeah your people got them phones, them wifi phones. Now you all tend to be walking around looking on them. While they got something sticking out of their ear they’re talking to. They’re always, always, always looking down. They’re never looking up and around. They shouldn’t be looking *garbled*. You know? Yeah, I couldn’t understand that whole way of life, you know? It wouldn’t make me happy. Everybody’s afraid to communicate. Everybody’s afraid to do anything, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: I don’t know why. Yeah. Even the chance to do that sort of shit to each other.

Chris: A lot of truth to that.

Bushman: Why would you choose to live that way of life, I don’t know. But then again, I’m probably too far gone in my regard, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: I like the bush.

Chris: Now…

Bushman: I like living. I like making people happy. Everything.

Chris: When you, uh, when you kill a pig with a knife, how long does that last you? Like how many meals do you get out of that?

[Pause for a commercial break]

Bushman: Oh well, see you’re out in the middle of the scrub, see? If you can carry enough salt and stuff you can make it last as long as you salt it up. But shit, I’ve never had enough salt *unclear*. You got enough salt for that little bit that you need, you know? Not enough salt to salt a pig. But you have him by the foot, see so I mean if you have a pig and you have enough salt and it will last as long as you just salt it up and you can hang it up under the tree and you’ll be laughing. It’ll last a long time then but usually mate, I just basically bone out what I want. Cut out what I want. I’ll cut my rib which is a bit like the New Zealand Hangi. If you know what that is? You dig a hole in the ground, you know? You um…

Chris: Uh huh.

Bushman: So obviously you need, all over the coast, you’ll need a river. You dig a hole in the sandy ground. You get your fire in there. Get the coals up. Put a heap of leaves down, put your meat down on top of the heap and more leaves down on top of that. And cover it over. Now it’s best to cover it over if you carry a bit of canvas or something. Cover that last leaf over with that bit of canvas and that will stop any sand from going on it, mate. Because there’s nothing worse than a beautiful bit of smoke cooked pig from an underground fire, you know? And then to have a bit of sand crunching in your teeth. That’s never good. You like it nice, nice and juicy. It’s the best way to eat it actually, wild pig. It comes out smokey flavor, moist. You know? It does take 3 or 4 hours to cook it that way but it’s all worth it in the end. And then I usually eat that for that day and the next day as well. And I just pig out on it. You know? You know? Excuse the pun there.

Chris: *laughter*

55:43

Bushman: But yeah you eat it as much as you can. You get a bit bloated on it. And then uh, then you keep on moving on and it’s like, a little bit like a camel with eating instead of water, you’re using food, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: You fill up your insides.

Chris: Now when you’re out in the bush in total isolation for weeks, sometimes months at a time. If you come upon another solitary person, do you ever fear that you’re in danger? ‘Cause there might be people out there who aren’t looking for the peace and happiness you are. Maybe they’re, maybe they’re fleeing something. Maybe they’re criminals. Maybe — Hello?

Bushman: Yeah no, I’ve never felt in danger out in the bush. It doesn’t matter who I come across or what they look like. I’ve never actually — *other person further away makes comment to Bushman and he responds*

Bushman: *to someone else* Yeah, Cob?

Person in background: *unclear remarks* *laughter*

Bushman: Oh god dang, god dang! *back to Chris*

Bushman: Oh I’m just getting a comment from one of the other workers now.

Chris: Yeah?

Bushman: They heard me say that.

Chris: What’d they say?

Bushman: Heh heh.

Person in background: *further comments*

Bushman: Oh he said that everyone’s around me is afraid. Heh heh heh.

Chris: Oh you’re the guy scaring everybody else!

Bushman: I look a bit. Well you see I look a bit rough and ready. Rough around the edges.

Chris: *laughter*

Bushman: I got a fairly bushy ass beard, you know? I got fairly bushy ass hair at the moment as well.

Chris: Yeah. You kill pigs with your hands. *laughter*

Bushman: I look a bit rough around the edges. Oh well, not with my hands. I usually have a knife at least for that.

Chris: Right. Right. But with the knife you hold in your hands.

Bushman: Not with my bare hands. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Yep. *stretches*

Chris: What’s uh, what’s the greatest lesson that the bush has taught you? That those of us in the cities might not ever realize?

Bushman: The greatest lesson it’s taught me, eh? Uhm…yes, jeez now… trust, eh? Trust in it. The bush to me is not just the bush, you know? It’s Mother. It’s the earth, you know? It’s a lot like something that’s, you know, picked a bit from what, you know, your peoples over there knew as they were growing up. Your earlier peoples.

Chris: Uh huh.

Bushman: And uh, a lot of that made sense with me, you know?

Chris: Right.

Bushman: And so, I started to learn to trust in her. And uh, you know the greatest thing I know is that if I put my trust in her, I can go with nothing and still survive. I quite frequently through life I’ve been around the town. You know, you get money so you do up with these positions. I’ve found the best thing to do is let them all go. So I dump a lot and walk away from it. I’ve done it quite a few times in my life now. Everytime I do it, you know, I might stay in the bush for a while, I might just… Well what I usually do in the bush is, there’s different sorts of bush, you know. I’ve paddled a few of the long rivers in Australia. Yeah, I’ve done some weird things. And uh, out in the bush there’s a certain amount of *unclear*.

Chris: Now you mentioned you admire Native American culture. Have you ever, have you ever immersed yourself in the Aboriginal culture?

Bushman: Yeah! Well yeah, I’ve had a bit of time up there. Um, with the indigenous. I’ve had a fair bit of time. Early on, I learned a bit from them. But it’s a different sort of a thing, you know? The culture, eh, I’m more of a strong believer in Mother. Um, a strong trust belief in Mother. And I find it hard to express it sometimes because I’m not used to having to express it to other people.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: She’s just my guiding light. I’ve found that while I’ve trusted her, I’ve always been happy. And when I’m out in the bush, like you said that with your original question was, you know, what out in the bush was the lesson I’ve learned. And that lesson is just to trust it, you know? Mother will always look after you.

Chris: Now…did your…

Bushman: She always provides food if you’re open for it.

Chris: Yeah. Has your, uh, German friend —

Bushman: What was that, Cob?

Chris: Has your German friend told you what this is that you’re participating in right now?

Bushman: Nah. She hasn’t said a word. She just said it’s some sort of podcast or something and I didn’t know what it is. And she asked me a couple of times and I thought…well I’ll have a little yawn. It cannot hurt me. Because it’s a hands free sort of thing and I got that thing in my ear. I’m still able to do the job at the moment here. I’m still picking these cherries with both me hands. I’m still swinging my ladder around. You can probably hear it every now and again. But ahh…

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: *unclear*

Chris: There’s going to be like 100,000 people that listen to your wisdom from the bush.

Bushman: Wisdom from the bush? Eh, I don’t know if it’s wisdom. I’m not actually in the bush at the moment. I’m in a cherry orchard, you know?

Chris: Ok, well if we’re..

Bushman: I’m not really in the bush at the moment.

Chris: If we’re nitpicking here. Okay.

Bushman: But yeah, that’s interesting.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: There’s people who like to listen to your show, yeah?

Chris: Yeah I mean there’s a lot of people that I think are gonna, never would have heard your perspective and are going to think hard about their technology driven lives of worry and anxiety.

Bushman: Aww yeah. And that’s what it is. It is worry and it is anxiety. I mean you’re doing it to yourself. You end up — I mean, fine, you have good intentions. You just want comfort — comforts and that to start with. But then you have to have this type of comfort and that other comfort. And once you got a TV, I mean look at them TVs. They’re constantly pushing you to, um, they’re constantly pushing you to, um, buy this other thing or do this other thing. They’re only there to make someone dollars. You know? That’s what society is all about.

Chris: I do host a television show, just so you know this. So let’s not slam TV too hard.

Bushman: Ahhh right!

Chris: Yeah TV’s kind of my bush.

Bushman: Yeah, Cobber it’s not your fault.

Chris: Yeah TV’s kind like of my bush. You know?

Bushman: Yeah yeah. Well that’s where you feel comfortable, mate. And listen, that’s funny I don’t think I’d ever feel comfortable in that situation.

Chris: I also feel like it’s where I get to be myself. And where I get to send out a message to the world where maybe I’ll find some other people who think the way I do.

Bushman: Oh yeah, so how you think then Cobber? I know that young German lady you were talking about. She’s got a…she’s been listening to your show for 77 hours in the last few, couple of months apparently.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: She’s got down on a thing, how many hours she’s listened to your show for. And I figured that’s quite a lot and she was pretty excited to be able to be on *unclear*. She said “I’m on hold and I’m going to talk to this man, I like this man.” So I thought well…and she asked me a couple of times and I thought I’d might as well have a quick yawn and see what it’s all about.

Chris: Well, it was really nice.

Bushman: It couldn’t hurt me and I’m still doing my job.

Chris: It was so eye opening and you gave me a lot to think about. I think maybe I’m going to readjust some ways of how I’m approaching how I’m living my own life because I think I’m falling into some of the traps that you say those of us living in civilization do, fall into.

Bushman: Well, everyday everyday we forget what’s most important, you know? And what’s most important is to be happy, isn’t it? After all, what’s most important is for you and your family and your friends around you — if you’re all happy, what better life could be?

Chris: Hell yeah!

Bushman: You don’t need lots of things to be happy.

Chris: No, you don’t.

Bushman: You just need that…what was that Cob?

Chris: I said, I was just agreeing with you. I was saying, I was, I was…you were getting me charged up. You were getting me real charged up.

Bushman: I shouldn’t get you charged up you know. You might get too excited. You might have to go for a walk through the forest directly.

Chris: Yeah. You’re going to convince me to go live off the bush. And I’m going to try to kill my first wild pig and it’s going to knock my glasses off and I’m going to die. Blind. Blind in the outback.

Bushman: *laughter*

Chris: I’m going to blame you. Because I got caught up, cause you, in your Thoreauesque message.

Bushman: It’s a, it’s certainly not a good idea to go for a pig for the first time by yourself anyway, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: Maybe take someone a bit more experienced with you.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: For me it was different because I was out in the bush. I was by myself and this first pig that I went for, actually he was coming for me so I didn’t have much of a choice.

Chris: *laughter*

Bushman: But, after that I rectified the situation and I knew how — how best to um…

Chris: Kill — kill a pig, yeah. Kill a pig. With a knife.

Bushman: Yeah…end them.

Chris: End them.

Bushman: I was lucky that first time I was amongst trees because I panicked that first time. I wasn’t expecting it. I only had a fishing spear. I didn’t have a knife with me even. And the fishing spear, you can’t kill a pig with a fishing spear. I don’t care how good you are. You can’t kill him with a fishing spear. So I was shooting around trees, dodging him, you know?

Chris: Yeah, I mean…

Bushman: I was lucky there was little trees around.

Chris: Yeah. Whoever’s out there trying to kill a pig with a fishing spear needs, uh, they just need a reality check.

Bushman: Yeah needs his head bent. Yeah, yeah it doesn’t work. You just can’t, uh. But I managed to get back to where my knife was.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: But then I was a bit annoyed with that pig so I ended up hunting him down, you know? He could have gotten me but…

Chris: Revenge. He went and got revenge.

Bushman: Yeah, not revenge. It was just the while he was after me, I was thinking of food.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah.

Bushman: And he looked like he was good food.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: And sometimes when it storms up you can’t catch nothing. You might get 3 or 4 days without a feed, you know?

Chris: Yeah. Of course.

Bushman: That’s why it’s good to eat when you got it. Eat when you got it. And when you haven’t, you know, there’s always them fond memories. Don’t think too much of them fond memories of that last meal, though. Because that hunger starts setting in. And you start getting hungry all of a sudden.

Chris: Mhm. Mhm.

Bushman: It’s best to think of other things, until you get that food. Or plan the ways you’re going to get that food. So look at the water ahead and there’s a chance you can get some bream. Bream are really easy to catch in this country.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: You catch them by just flatten the hook down and any little bit of something on the river, you know? They’re inquisitive, they’ll float and they’ll go for it. Even, even if it’s just a bit of rag half the time, you know?

Chris: Of course. Yeah.

Bushman: Bream are silly sometimes. They get to float straight on the rapid into the deeper water, you know?

Chris: Yeah. Yeah.

Bushman: I’d just see it come down. That’s where they sit and wait for their food.

Chris: Yeah. Definitely.

Bushman: And good stuff comes down rivers and streams. They sit where it drops in. You know they’re only a small fish but ah geez. You catch them and you have the coals up as you catch them. You just, you don’t even scar them or gut them or nothing. You shove them straight in the coals.

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. Why bother with the other work?

Bushman: Cook um up. And then turn them over and boy you can start eating them. *garbled*

Chris: Uh huh.

Bushman: Aw, they’re good. After 6 or 7 of them, you’re full. You’re content.

Chris: 6 or 7?

Bushman: You can sit back and have a relaxation. *unclear* walk and see what else is new *garbled* stay, pass through. Aw, life’s good man

Chris: It is. Well look it was really a…

Bushman: *unclear* I’m sure there’s some beautiful things in that city where you come from.

Chris: Oh yeah.

Bushman: And I’m guessing more of the beautiful things, you have to get more of the people I guess. Get into a group of people that, uh, just want to share experiences and share lessons. Enjoy. Find that beauty in life instead of looking for them harsh things, you know?

Chris: Yeah. I mean…

Bushman: It’s hard to say but your American TV shit is a lot harsher, you know?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: Seems to focus on the, the bad things people can do to each other. And you don’t see much of the good things people can do to each other no more on your TV over there, eh?

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: I guess all TV is but most, most TV follows your American TV.

Chris: Mhm.

Bushman: All you got is people shooting each other. People ripping each other off. Yeah, you get the young people now think that’s the norm, you know? Which is a bit sad.

Chris: Of course. Yeah.

Bushman: A bit sad.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: Yeah, they all want to watch it. It gives them excitement, I guess. So the next day they’re doing *unclear*. It’s nothing unusual nowadays to see people in the towns smoking their crack and doing their needles. And fighting each other just because it was easy to do, easy to fight and talk about something, have a disagreement. Yeah, get something to bash the shit out of them.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: That’s easier than communicating. I mean, shit, it’s too hard to communicate most times. Most, most people don’t want to hear your point of view. And that’s why they just, you know, *unclear*. I think I’m fuming because they always go to the first thing they can grab and smash the shit out of each other. Don’t they, I mean.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: But yeah I’m sure that’s a beautiful place over there. And I think you were about to go right before I started talking again.

Chris: Yeah well —

Bushman: And that’s what it is sometimes when you’re out in the bush. You can just talk sometimes you talk away and you can talk for hours, you know? But then you have to go quietly in and contemplate everything you did say.

Chris: Yeah. Mhm mhm. Maybe I should, uh, maybe we should say our goodbye. And I should check in with our German friend one more time.

Bushman: I’m better to pass you over to her. You have a good one, Cobber.

Chris: It was such a pleasure. I feel like I learned a lot about life and philosophy talking to you so thank you for that.

Bushman: Oh you’re welcome Cobber.

Chris: Yeah.

Bushman: I’ll give you back to her so you can have a yawn.

Chris: Thank you so much Clopper.

Bushman: *in background* I am so talented. I went on for so long *unclear*.