EP. S2E46 — The Idol w/ Grace Freud & April Clark

Ashley Ray [00:00:27] Welcome to TV, I Say with Ashley Ray–your go-to podcast for discovering what to watch on TV and getting behind the scenes insight from the people who make the shows you love. It’s Pride Month, and corporate America loves a theme. We love the theme. We love corporate gay pride. But it’s also the first month of Earwolf Presents. And we’re going to be presenting original content from all these wonderful comedians that Earwolf is partnering with for some short run audio content. And we’ll be kicking things off with The Girl God Experience. So, my guests today are Grace and April from Girl God.  

 

Grace Freud [00:01:00] What’s up everybody? 

 

April Clark [00:01:01] What’s up? How’s it going? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:01:04] I’m so excited to be in the Earwolf family with you.  

 

Grace Freud [00:01:06] We’re huge fans of everything Earwolf has done. Serial–You know, that’s one of our favorite podcasts. Obviously, This American Life–another good one. But what Earwolf creates is just incredible. And TV, I Say, obviously.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:01:21] Right up there. 

 

Grace Freud [00:01:23] The main trio.  

 

April Clark [00:01:24] And, you know, when I found out that we were going to come on TV, I Say, I said “TV? I watch that stuff.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:01:32] Exactly. That’s what I hope to get from people.  

 

April Clark [00:01:35] And now I’m here. I’m so jazzed. 

 

Grace Freud [00:01:40] I’m basically, you know, kind of a bad girl television writer.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:01:45] You are. People say this. People are always saying this. 

 

Grace Freud [00:01:49] I’m kind of the roguish one. I’m kind of the, you know, most controversial television writer.  

 

April Clark [00:01:56] That’s true. 

 

Grace Freud [00:01:59] And I wear that. I wear that as a badge of pride. I just want to say really quick up top: Fuck Moonlighting.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:02:08] Yeah.  

 

Grace Freud [00:02:09] Fuck Moonlighting.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:02:10] Yeah.  

 

Grace Freud [00:02:12] Also, fuck everyone who likes that show.  

 

April Clark [00:02:14] That’s my favorite show.  

 

Grace Freud [00:02:16] Yeah. Go fuck yourself. 

 

April Clark [00:02:17] That’s my favorite TV show. 

 

Grace Freud [00:02:19] You little pussy bitch.  

 

April Clark [00:02:20] That’s literally my favorite TV show.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:02:21] And we are talking about the 1985 hit Moonlighting.  

 

Grace Freud [00:02:26] Five seasons.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:02:27] Five seasons.  

 

Grace Freud [00:02:27] Two seasons that were ratings garbage.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:02:32] Once the main couple got together, people really felt like the show lost its edge. 

 

Grace Freud [00:02:34] I read up about it. And for context, I tweeted that I had just found out about Moonlighting because I was reading all of Bruce Willis’s Wikipedia. And I thought this tweet was fine. I think so. But then some British film critic son of a bitch screenshot my tweet, and he goes, “Moonlighting was a bit before my time too.” By the way, I’ve seen a picture of this man. It wasn’t. Moonlighting was your time, baby. I’ll say your name. Guy Lodge? Moonlighting was your time. And he was like, “How can a TV writer not know about Moonlighting?” It’s never been on streaming. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:03:13] He looks like he was ending his college courses, going back to his dorm to watch Moonlighting. That’s how old he looks.  

 

April Clark [00:03:22] Someone should tell him that Bruce Willis isn’t going to suck him off.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:03:25] No, he doesn’t even want to do that anymore.  

 

April Clark [00:03:27] He doesn’t do that anymore.  

 

Grace Freud [00:03:29] You know, there’s a lot of, you know, chubby British guys with beards who’ve been able to convert that look in a somewhat lucrative comic book and film writing careers. But he only is a critic? Sorry.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:03:42] And all his criticizing is what people on Twitter watch? 

 

Grace Freud [00:03:48] And I love television. I was shocked I hadn’t heard about the series. And I was kind of making fun of myself that I hadn’t heard about it. 

 

April Clark [00:03:57] I mean, you were expressing that it was crazy that you hadn’t heard about it. You essentially agree with this guy. You’re also saying, “Why haven’t I heard of this?”  

 

Ashley Ray [00:04:06] Cybill Shepherd. An all-star cast. 

 

Grace Freud [00:04:10] Unlike Guy Lodge, London film critic–  

 

April Clark [00:04:17] Guy Lodge? More like Gay Lodge.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:04:17] Exactly.  

 

Grace Freud [00:04:20] More like Gay Podge because he’s a big podge of bad gay ideas. 

 

April Clark [00:04:25] More like Gay Stodge. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:04:27] He’s so stodgy. 

 

April Clark [00:04:29] There it is.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:04:30] Yeah.  

 

Grace Freud [00:04:30] And you know what? I hope it’s not more like Gay Dodge because I hope he doesn’t dodge this criticism that I’m levying back at him. But a lot of television shows are referenced across the different shows that I’ve written on–Mad Men, The Simpsons, Twilight Zone. But I have never, ever had a showrunner ever reference Moonlighting because if they had, I would know about it! 

 

Ashley Ray [00:04:56] If this was a thing in TV…  No, it’s not though. Okay, sorry. We’re just not talking about it anymore.  

 

Grace Freud [00:05:02] But listen, I’m fine with being the bad girl of television.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:05:05] Yeah. That’s why I wanted you here–for the controversial opinion. 

 

Grace Freud [00:05:09] Exactly. But I’m not fine with an unreasonable criticism being levied at me by a bunch of Twitter people who look to me to be explicitly mad that they’re not also writing for TV even though they know what Moonlighting is. 

 

April Clark [00:05:25] I also love the idea that TV writing is like academia, and you have to have, like, read all the literature.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:05:31] You must be aware of all of the shows. 

 

April Clark [00:05:34] Like, that’s not how TV works. Have you watched TV? I’m sorry. Come on, man. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:05:41] You’re not familiar with Friends Season Three Episode Four? How do you call yourself a TV writer? 

 

April Clark [00:05:46] You can’t do a painting until you’ve looked at every painting, so that you can understand what you’re building off of.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:05:51] But I love that we’ve come in fresh with the controversy because I feel like there’s been a lot of TV Twitter controversy lately, most recently the finale of Ted Lasso. Do either of you watch this show? 

 

April Clark [00:06:02] Yeah. What’s the deal with that show?  

 

Grace Freud [00:06:07] I wouldn’t do that. That’s something I wouldn’t personally get into. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:06:10] You have The Girl God Experience, which is to help men become their best. And Ted Lasso is the opposite of toxic masculinity.  

 

April Clark [00:06:20] Here’s my impression of the show, Ted Lasso. It’s like there’s a bunch of guys in the locker room, and he’s like, “Oi, Bruv. You want to suck me off?” And then the other one says, “No, mate. That’s toxic.”  

 

Ashley Ray [00:06:36] That is kind of word-for-word an episode in this season. 

 

Grace Freud [00:06:38] And a third one that goes, “Oi, it’s not toxic to ask.” 

 

April Clark [00:06:48] “Don’t knock it till you try it!” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:06:51] Yes. So that is literally an entire scene from the show this season.  

 

April Clark [00:06:59] “How are you ever going to suck off your wife if you can’t even suck off me? Practice how you play, love?” 

 

Grace Freud [00:07:09] We auditioned for the new season.  

 

April Clark [00:07:10] We did.  

 

Grace Freud [00:07:11] We were going to be a pair of trans women that the British government forced to play on–  

 

April Clark [00:07:18] On the male team. Yeah. 

 

Grace Freud [00:07:20] Is it hockey?  

 

Ashley Ray [00:07:22] Soccer. 

 

Grace Freud [00:07:22] Oh, yeah. Soccer team. 

 

April Clark [00:07:24] Soccer and football. American football.  

 

Grace Freud [00:07:30] We really thought it was hockey. When we did the audition, we were saying the line like, “Goal!” And then going, “Brrr.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:07:40] Yeah, yeah, because you do that in hockey.  

 

Grace Freud [00:07:41] We thought it was hockey. We thought it was on the ice rink.  

 

April Clark [00:07:45] I never thought it was hockey.  

 

Grace Freud [00:07:46] Oh. Well, then why didn’t you tell me to stop going, “Brrr”? 

 

April Clark [00:07:49] I just thought maybe soccer… I don’t know. I don’t know all the rules.  

 

Grace Freud [00:07:53] It is cold in England. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:07:54] It is cold in England. So, I would have thought maybe– 

 

Grace Freud [00:08:01] The script was good.  

 

April Clark [00:08:02] “You don’t know how they do things across the pond, love.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:08:05] Ted gave us bottom surgery himself.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:08:07] Wow.  

 

Grace Freud [00:08:12] God bless socialized health care. But the NHS was really backed up.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:08:16] Oh yeah, they get busy.  

 

Grace Freud [00:08:18] He learned how to give us sexual reassignment surgery.  

 

April Clark [00:08:24] “Good day, mate. It’s me, Ted Lasso, and I’m here to chop up your nuts.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:08:29] He’s so exciting like that.  

 

Grace Freud [00:08:30] So he talked in a British accent during that period of the show.  

 

April Clark [00:08:34] Is he British? Do they make Jason Sudeikis do a British accent? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:08:36] No, he’s very, very Kansas, like, Southern accent. Everyone else is like, “Oi, bruv.” And he’s like, “Butter my biscuits and call me blah, blah, blah.” 

 

April Clark [00:08:44] “Now, pardon my biscuits, but if I didn’t know any better, I’d say you’re being toxic.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:08:49] He was President of the United States.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:08:50] Yes. And then he decided to go to England to coach football. 

 

April Clark [00:08:55] Really? He was the president of–? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:08:58] Yeah.  

 

April Clark [00:08:58] In universe, that’s actually true?  

 

Ashley Ray [00:09:00] That’s not true. I think in universe, he’s, like, a failed football coach in America. Like, his team lost, and he’s embarrassed. And then everyone in England’s like, “Why would you hire him?” And he’s just like, “I don’t even know what an offsides is.” But by the finale, he knows what an offside is.  

 

Grace Freud [00:09:22] A lot of our audition… You want to recreate it with me, April? 

 

April Clark [00:09:29] I would love to. 

 

Grace Freud [00:09:32] Us going, like, “Rawr!” because obviously Ted didn’t have access to anesthetic. And being like, “Thank you! Thank you! Ahh! Thank you!  

 

April Clark [00:09:40] “I need this, Ted! Come on!” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:09:44] It’s so sad they cut all of this plot.  

 

Grace Freud [00:09:47] Yes, that’s the crazy thing. And, you know, let’s talk about this because oftentimes, as trans actors, we’ll audition for something… 

 

April Clark [00:09:57] And then they’ll see us do the role… 

 

Ashley Ray [00:10:01] And they cut the characters. They decide to, you know, focus on Keeley and her… I honestly don’t know what happened to Keeley this season. She was just kind of around. But the biggest controversy with it is the fans are so angry about the way it ended in the finale this week.  

 

April Clark [00:10:16] Wait, so what happened? Spoil it for me. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:10:20] We don’t do spoilers at TV Club. And my engineer has specifically asked me not to spoil Ted Lasso, but I’ll say…  

 

Grace Freud [00:10:29] Can I ask one more question? So how can you spoil that show?  

 

April Clark [00:10:35] It’s a soccer game? 

 

Grace Freud [00:10:40] One of two things can happen, and neither of them are that surprising. 

 

April Clark [00:10:43] Spoiler alert–he is abusive.  

 

Grace Freud [00:10:45] Spoiler alert–oh, they won the game. Spoiler alert–oh, they lost the game. I’m sorry if you care about either of those things… And I’m looking our producer, Alex, in the eye right now. If you care about either of those things, you should learn to love. Find something in your life beyond that, you know? And that’s different than the shows I care about. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:11:11] This is the one episode you maybe could spoil just because there are… Well, that’s the thing. There’s a flashback or flashforward that gives us information about each character. And it made the fans so mad.  

 

Grace Freud [00:11:24] Is this the end of the series?  

 

April Clark [00:11:25] Yes. And the fans are so mad that they’re trying to convince themselves it’s all a dream sequence.  

 

April Clark [00:11:29] Ted Lasso. More like Dead Lasso. In the finale, he dies. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:11:34] He dies in a plane crash. And so, all the fans are like, “This flashforward is not real. It’s, like, his brain dying. It’s his dreams.”  

 

Grace Freud [00:11:42] It’s weird because they haven’t been marketing it like it’s the last season. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:11:45] Yeah. So basically, we know that Apple TV is making a lot of money, and they didn’t want it to end. But Jason Sudeikis hates being Ted Lasso. You can tell.  

 

April Clark [00:11:54] That makes sense. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:11:55] He hates being this character, hates the show, and wants to do something else.  

 

April Clark [00:11:59] In real life, he is toxic, and so he doesn’t like playing a nice guy character.  

 

Grace Freud [00:12:06] That must, like, really rattle him.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:12:08] Yeah, you know, he’s watching Succession and going, “I relate to Ken wanting to stand in front of his wife’s car, not Ted Lasso.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:12:14] This would be like me being cast in a role where I’m a good girl TV writer who plays by the rules and who knows Moonlighting and has seen every episode of Bonanza. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:12:24] Has Moonlighting posters everywhere.  

 

Grace Freud [00:12:29] That would be insane for me. Like, the psychic damage– 

 

April Clark [00:12:31] So the ending of Ted Lasso is all a dream? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:12:35] Well, so he gets on a plane. 

 

April Clark [00:12:36] He doesn’t even play soccer? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:12:38] He gets on a plane to go back home.  

 

April Clark [00:12:40] It’s like Inception? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:12:42] And then we flashforward. But then we go back to the plane, and he’s waking up. It’s 100% not a dream. 

 

April Clark [00:12:47] He gets on the plane, and Leonardo DiCaprio is there. It’s Inception. They’re doing Inception with him. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:12:52] They’re spinning things, and he’s like, “No, yeah, this is reality.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:12:56] Spoiler, right? I’ve seen the pilot. 

 

April Clark [00:13:00] They do Inception to make him gay. 

 

Grace Freud [00:13:04] When he lands in London town, he says, “I’m never gonna fly again. I promise.” So, it’s kind of a big spoiler that he does.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:13:15] He does eventually take a plane. And also, a big Ted fact–he always says he can’t sleep on planes. We see him waking up, so all the fans are like, “He slept on a plane. It must be a dream.”  

 

April Clark [00:13:27] “It’s because he’s mentally well now, love. He’s recovered.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:13:33] Now he can sleep on a plane.  

 

April Clark [00:13:35] “Yes, that’s right.”  

 

Ashley Ray [00:13:36] But the fans are just saying, “No, it all had to be a dream.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:13:41] I’d bet good money there’s going to be a Season Four.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:13:45] So there’s only three seasons.  

 

April Clark [00:13:46] Why did I think it was, like, Season 10? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:13:48] You can tell it’s really like Ted Lasso wants to leave because his last thing is like, “It was never about me. It was about the team.” And it’s so obvious Apple sets up spinoffs. Like, they’re going to do a spinoff.  

 

April Clark [00:13:59] The team going to therapy.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:14:02] Like in this dream sequence, they set up all of these possible spinoff possibilities. People are starting new job opportunities, and maybe a new team is getting started at Richmond. We don’t know. But there’s all this stuff that makes it clear Apple is not done milking this for all that it’s worth. 

 

Grace Freud [00:14:18] So the team ends? A new team needs to be started?  

 

Ashley Ray [00:14:23] There’s a big shift for the main team that lets you know, “We will keep any actor that isn’t asking for too much money from the ensemble.” 

 

April Clark [00:14:33] Okay, here’s my pitch for another season of Ted Lasso. So, it’s the mental health team–the team that’s so mentally well. This time they have to play against a team that is mentally unwell. They’re all mentally ill and toxic.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:14:52] They’re all abusers, and they’re all toxic. 

 

April Clark [00:14:54] I like the idea that they’re all schizophrenic. 

 

Grace Freud [00:14:56] They have to play against the Manchester Abusers. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:14:58] And then make them nontoxic through light locker room talk. 

 

April Clark [00:15:02] “The power of mental health.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:15:04] Ted’s flight on the way back does get into a crash. But he survives.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:15:12] Okay.  

 

April Clark [00:15:13] He crashes and it’s on the same island as Lost, and now it’s Lost. 

 

Grace Freud [00:15:16] It’s like the episode of Futurama where they can only communicate through beeps in the chair. So, they just have, like, a plastic model of Jason Sudeikis doing beeps. And they react to the beeps. They don’t do subtitles, but people react to them like it’s the same folksy wisdom and jokes.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:15:36] “Oh, Ted…” And it’s just a little robot, so he can be free. 

 

April Clark [00:15:39] That’s good.  

 

Grace Freud [00:15:41] “Beep. Beep. Beep. Keeley.” Are you sure “Keeley” isn’t, like, a slur there? That sounds like some sort of a slur for bisexual. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:15:49] Australian? Oh, I was thinking, like, a Kiwi. 

 

Grace Freud [00:15:55] “You keeley. Stop sucking dick and eating clit.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:15:57] “Put those kiwis down, you keeley.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:16:02] “Get a goddamn job, you keeley.” 

 

April Clark [00:16:05] What if they set Ted Lasso in the ’90s and everyone on the team was like, “Getting electroshock therapy was the best in the world for me. Now I’m not toxic.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:16:16] “I’m not toxic, and I’m ready to play.” 

 

April Clark [00:16:17] “Ever since I’ve been getting shocks straight to the brain, I’ve been better at playing American football. ‘Soccer,’ as they call it across the pond.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:16:27] And all of these endings would make Ted Lasso fans happier than what they got. You know, it’s a show that really dealt with fan service for most of its time. So, to see it upset people in the end made me happy. I love to see the Ted Lasso fans unhappy. 

 

Grace Freud [00:16:44] You still call it Ted Lasso, but it’s Princess Di is Back.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:16:54] Okay. I get it. 

 

Grace Freud [00:16:54] She’s using Ted Lasso’s identity to keep it a secret. It’s Princess Di, she’s got the mustache, and now she’s coaching the Richmond soccer team. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:17:06] Yeah. I mean, there’s been so many TV finales this week–some premieres. We got a new season of I Think You Should Leave. What are you watching right now? What are your watchlists? What do you got on?  

 

Grace Freud [00:17:23] I watch American Dad for six hours a day.  

 

April Clark [00:17:25] Grace has pretty much been doing that. I’m dead serious. She has been–all night–watching American Dad every day. 

 

Grace Freud [00:17:30] I am going through a divorce, and I watch American Dad six hours a day.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:17:34] I mean, it’s good for that. It unfairly kind of gets branched in with, like, late Family Guy. And people don’t realize American Dad– 

 

Grace Freud [00:17:44] It actually only gets better and better. I think that, like, American Dad becomes this, like, meta show about adult animated comedies, like The Simpsons and Family Guy and Bob’s, because depending on the episode of American Dad…  

 

April Clark [00:18:03] Are they still making it?  

 

Grace Freud [00:18:04] Yes. 

 

April Clark [00:18:04] Oh, yeah.  

 

Grace Freud [00:18:05] There’s new episodes coming out right now, weekly. 

 

April Clark [00:18:10] Every hour of every day. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:18:11] Well, I think the season ended maybe last week? 

 

Grace Freud [00:18:13] No, there was a new one that came on Sunday.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:18:15] Okay, with HouseBroken. 

 

April Clark [00:18:16] They should branch off into other nationalities of dad. 

 

Grace Freud [00:18:21] It’s TBS.  

 

April Clark [00:18:21] Oh, right. It’s TBS.  

 

Grace Freud [00:18:23] It’s TBS’s only original, scripted show that they still do.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:18:28] It’s they’re only original, scripted show. 

 

Grace Freud [00:18:31] And the last episode was actually really especially insane. And it’s–depending on what mode– commenting on the different types of shows like it. And it’s great. It really is almost like a modern-day Twilight Zone at times, too. 

 

April Clark [00:18:55] Wow. Guy who has seen Twilight Zone–1,000% 

 

Grace Freud [00:19:01] Twilight Zone is one of my favorite shows, and it does have that vibe. But American Dad at its best has, like, the vibe of like… This show is throwing out these sci i premises but in the context of, like, a Simpsons… It’s almost like if every episode of The Simpsons was like Treehouse of Horror.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:19:23] Which honestly, at this point is what I’d want from The Simpsons.  

 

Grace Freud [00:19:25] It’s really good. I mean, I genuinely think that American Dad is a great show. And people talk about how it becomes a great show, like, Season Five or whatever. But actually, even its first season has some absolute bangers. Like, the first season has this episode, “Bullocks to Stan,” where Stan’s boss hates his daughter. And it becomes just, like, weird, meta…  

 

April Clark [00:19:55] You made me watch that episode. It’s really good.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:20:00] Everyone who enters her life watches this episode. 

 

April Clark [00:20:01] That was the first episode of American Dad I’d ever seen. And it’s honestly–especially the end–really fucking good. I highly recommend. It was great. 

 

Grace Freud [00:20:08] And that’s a Season One episode. And it shows the promise of the entire show.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:20:17] I think out of all of those promises–The Cleveland Show, Family Guy–American Dad was always the best, my favorite, and the one that just was the funniest.  

 

Grace Freud [00:20:24] And it kind of throws off the basic premise at a point but then also uses it in its toolbox to go back to. You know? It’s like every character’s Roger, in a way, to a point. Like, Roger, you know, is the alien that has all of these different personas, but they all have all of these different personas.  

 

April Clark [00:20:45] Don’t we all? Aren’t we all aliens with a lot of different personas? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:20:49] Just like Roger.  

 

Grace Freud [00:20:51] Yes, we are! I will take that somewhat jokey statement you guys just said and respond to it with genuine sincerity. Yes, we are all like Roger. And it’s been, like, a comfort show. But it also, I think, has really helped me think about writing sitcoms on the whole. And it’s so funny.  

 

April Clark [00:21:16] Grace, would you say that your defense of American Dad is perhaps because you spent your whole life searching for your American dad?  

 

Grace Freud [00:21:25] Well, I think it’s partly that. And I was born in the East Germany.  

 

April Clark [00:21:37] What about a show called German Dad? What about German Dad?  

 

Ashley Ray [00:21:43] Oh, see, they would love that there. German people love American Dad. You’re putting all of your accent skills on display.  

 

Grace Freud [00:21:53] “You know, it taught me how to acclimate to this country, you know? Yeah. And it also taught me how to speak in a perfect American accent.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:22:08] Wow.  

 

Grace Freud [00:22:09] “So it is a show that invites everybody to be a part of the American experience. And as an immigrant from East Germany, that was important to me.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:22:21] So important. You know, American Dad–I think people look at those shows and say, “They’re not inclusive. They’re not Pride Month shows. They’re not gay.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:22:31] Well, you know what’s crazy, though?  

 

April Clark [00:22:34] Don’t even get her started. Oh my God.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:22:37] You probably want to rename the show American Gay. 

 

April Clark [00:22:39] And that’s the rest of the episode. Ashley, we should just go. Grace is just going to talk about American Gay Dad for the next 30 minutes or whatever.  

 

Grace Freud [00:22:48] It’s a show that… There are certain other popular adult animated shows right now that are basically jacking themselves off because they’re like, “Oh, look at how subtly queer we are. Oh wow, fucking…” I’m not going to shit on the show. But… 

 

April Clark [00:23:13] Honey, you can’t be subtly queer. Have you ever seen gay people? There’s shoving it down your throat. They’re in the stores. They’re in Target now. Come on! 

 

Grace Freud [00:23:24] Something that I really like about American Dad is, like, it never congratulates itself. American Dad isn’t just gay. It’s faggy, you know?  

 

April Clark [00:23:35] What a claim.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:23:37] Yeah. I mean, I think it’s true. Would the majority of the fan base agree? Maybe.  

 

Grace Freud [00:23:44] Roger is this queen who is a disaster in, like, a real lived-in, beautiful… Also, like, Roger captures the wreck of an old gay guy in a way that no other show does.  

 

April Clark [00:24:06] I thought I saw Roger on the street the other day, but it was just some old queen. 

 

Grace Freud [00:24:09] But the thing is– Okay, this is going to sound very, like, saccharine, but we do see Roger on the street. 

 

April Clark [00:24:22] If Roger came to America in 2023, he would be on the street.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:24:29] In San Francisco. 

 

April Clark [00:24:32] That’s right. This is a societal issue. How do we treat the Roger’s of our society, you know?  

 

Grace Freud [00:24:40] A lot of the time, old gay guys–old queens–in, like, media are presented as usually financially successful. They usually have husbands– 

 

Ashley Ray [00:24:51] Husbands.  

 

April Clark [00:24:53] Why do they never have wives? Let’s get some diversity in here.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:24:56] Good question, April.  

 

April Clark [00:24:57] Let’s get them some wives.  

 

Grace Freud [00:24:59] Yeah. Where are the gay guys with wives in media? They’re on C-SPAN. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:25:06] Ohhh!  

 

April Clark [00:25:11] Ayoo. But hang on. I have a serious question, folks. You know what I was thinking about the other day? You always see a lot of media– It’s, like, a trope, right? The narrative of the lesbian who finds the one man that she can tolerate. Right? Where’s the story about a gay guy who finds the one woman that he can sleep with? Like, why isn’t there, like, gay guy Chasing Amy? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:25:39] I was going to say Difficult People.  

 

Grace Freud [00:25:39] Anyone know a little pairing on TV called Tom and Shiv? I’ve never seen Succession. I need to watch it. 

 

April Clark [00:25:47] That’s a lie You’ve seen it.  

 

Grace Freud [00:25:51] I’ve seen, like, the first season. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:25:54] Wow. And you’re a TV writer? 

 

Grace Freud [00:25:56] Yeah. I will probably finish it at some point. 

 

April Clark [00:26:01] “It’s okay. Succession isn’t a TV show. It transcends.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:26:04] “It transcends. It’s actually more of a novel. It’s based on King Lear if you’re familiar.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:26:09] And as a television writer, if I were to watch a novel, it would totally skew my understanding of what television is.  

 

April Clark [00:26:17] Exactly. One time I showed Grace a movie writer. It ruined her for months.  

 

Grace Freud [00:26:21] I eat a solid diet of American Dad, the five Doctor Who episodes I still like to watch, and seasons, like, two through five of 30 Rock. 

 

April Clark [00:26:32] And what did you say earlier? Twilight Zone? You’ve seen it all? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:26:35] Twilight Zone.  

 

Grace Freud [00:26:36] I’ve seen all of Twilight Zone. I’ve seen a lot of Star Trek. But the point is, let’s get back to Roger. If you don’t know an old gay guy whose life didn’t turn out as planned, you are really… 

 

April Clark [00:27:00] We all know that one gay guy whose life didn’t turn out as planned. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:27:06] He’s probably your high school theater teacher.  

 

Grace Freud [00:27:09] Old the gay guys who are, like, scrambling a little bit still? Wow, that energy is incredible.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:27:17] I love it. And Roger does bring it to life.  

 

Grace Freud [00:27:20] Yes! 

 

Ashley Ray [00:27:21] April, what are you watching?  

 

April Clark [00:27:22] What am I watching right now? Oh my God. I started watching the new season of I Think You Should Leave last night. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:27:28] What do you think?  

 

April Clark [00:27:29] I am loving how weird it’s getting. Grace, have you started watching it at all? 

 

Grace Freud [00:27:34] I haven’t seen the new season.  

 

April Clark [00:27:35] Okay? It’s getting weirder. Like, it’s less like a sketch show now and more like a compilation of weird, surreal scenes. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:27:45] Just weird things to say and do.  

 

April Clark [00:27:47] Like, half the time, there’s not even a punchline. It’s just like, “Aw!” 

 

Grace Freud [00:27:52] I think that’s cool because… 

 

April Clark [00:27:56] I think it’s cool, too.  

 

Grace Freud [00:27:57] Where do you, like, go with it?  

 

Ashley Ray [00:28:00] Punchlines are hard also, so… 

 

Grace Freud [00:28:01] Something that I’ve really disliked that I’ve seen on Twitter is… And I haven’t seen the new season yet. I’ve seen the first two seasons a million times, so I guess I can’t comment on the quality, but I’m sure I’m going to love it. But I’ve seen some people be like, “The new season isn’t quite hitting for me. Ugh. Go kill yourself.” 

 

April Clark [00:28:23] I think they’re just misunderstanding it. They want it to be exactly the same as the other seasons.  

 

Grace Freud [00:28:31] What was your experience with the first season? Because my experience was like, “This is the funniest thing ever. But also, I’m going to watch it ten times.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:28:38] Ten times to pick up new jokes.  

 

Grace Freud [00:28:39] And it’s going to get into me more and more and more and more. And some of these tweets have been like, “Oh, maybe it’ll grow on me.” Oh, you think, dumb ass? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:28:50] It’s that kind of show. It grows on you. 

 

Grace Freud [00:28:56] And also, like, the expectation of, like, “Oh, if this season doesn’t hit the highest peaks of the show for me…” To just tweet such a milquetoast taste–go to hell. 

 

April Clark [00:29:11] You know, people like that want every sketch in the show to be, like, Tim yelling.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:29:19] Yeah. They want every sketch show to be a meme moment, where they’re like, “Oh, that’s what I’m going to post on Twitter.” 

 

April Clark [00:29:23] I’m sorry, but it’s good that it’s not the same fucking punchline for three seasons. If it were exactly the same as the first season, you’d be like, “Oh, the guy’s got one joke.” But he doesn’t because he is incredible.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:29:36] I think my favorite sketch was one that didn’t even have Tim in. It was, like, the old woman in the H.R. meeting who’s like, “I’m going to make the shirts,” because she gets, like, one joke off and can’t let it go. And anytime they just get some, like, middle aged regular actor to act like Tim–those are my favorites. 

 

April Clark [00:29:52] Oh, it’s great. It’s really, really good. There’s a lot of sketches where it could have been Tim but it’s awesome that they, like, got someone else to do this. I really like the one where Don Cheadle is like, “I could have been Barney.” I don’t know. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:30:11] Tim Meadows is like, “Yeah, I could have been Barney. I could have put a feather on my head and done…” 

 

April Clark [00:30:14] Wait. Who was it?  

 

Ashley Ray [00:30:15] Tim Meadows.  

 

April Clark [00:30:16] Oh my God. I don’t know who that is.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:30:18] He’s from SNL.  

 

April Clark [00:30:19] Oh, I thought it was the guy from Marvel. 

 

Grace Freud [00:30:20] You know who Tim Meadows is, April. 

 

April Clark [00:30:22] Do I?  

 

Grace Freud [00:30:23] You just watched the Detroiters with Tim Meadows in it.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:30:24] He’s from SNL and The Goldbergs.  

 

Grace Freud [00:30:27] He was in Popstar also.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:30:28] And Dewey Cox. 

 

April Clark [00:30:32] I thought that was the same person as the guy from Marvel. Oh, fuck. Well, I feel crazy. I’ve been going my whole life thinking it was one guy. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:30:41] Don Cheadle was just in an episode of Dave. He plays a dark Don Cheadle version of himself, where he, like, does drugs at the Met Gala. And clips of that have been going viral on Twitter, obviously outside of the context of the episode. 

 

Grace Freud [00:30:57] You don’t need to release her from it.  

 

April Clark [00:30:59] No, release me from it. I need to be released.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:31:03] You’re released.  

 

April Clark [00:31:03] Thank you. That means a lot. Wow, I’m actually less impressed now. I thought they somehow got Don Cheadle. 

 

Grace Freud [00:31:11] You can’t be less impressed by Tim Meadows! 

 

Ashley Ray [00:31:14] Tim Meadows is good! 

 

April Clark [00:31:15] He’s very funny! 

 

Ashley Ray [00:31:18] You expect to see him in a sketch show.  

 

Grace Freud [00:31:18] Okay. That’s fair. 

 

April Clark [00:31:23] For some reason, I watched it, and my brain registered it as Don Cheadle. And I thought it was. And I was like, “That’s crazy that they got Don Cheadle.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:31:29] Little Dicky got Don Cheadle, but, like, Tim Robbins couldn’t get Don Cheadle.  

 

Grace Freud [00:31:34] Well, wait a sec. We don’t even know if Tim Robbins attempted to get Don Cheadle.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:31:46] We don’t know if I Think You Should Leave tried to get Don Cheadle. 

 

Grace Freud [00:31:49] We certainly don’t know if Tim Robbins attempted to get Don Cheadle, like, in life.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:31:53] As a buddy? Romantically? But they did end up with Tim Meadows.  

 

Grace Freud [00:31:58] We were talking for a second about how I Think You Should Leave does this great thing where they pull actors from obscurity and give them a chance to really shine and be funny. And they’ve done that, you know, since the first season, you know? Famously, with the water bottle flip guy. I think that you see kind of this continuity–this evolution–from like Tim and Eric, which kind of did that but in a way of, like, kind of mocking these people. And I think it’s funny. And I don’t think it’s, like, unethical what they did. But it is kind of cool that I Think You Should Leave does this thing gives them a chance to, like… Truly, they’re being funny.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:32:46] They’re being silly.  

 

Grace Freud [00:32:49] They are acting, you know? I’m like, “Oh, that rocks.” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:32:52] It’s so good. I love when I see I Think You Should Leave people pop up in other shows. And I’m just like, “Yeah. That’s the magic of Hollywood, baby.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:33:00] And I would also like to shout out Detective… What’s his name?  

 

April Clark [00:33:07] Crashmore. 

 

Grace Freud [00:33:07] Crashmore. The guy who plays him–just incredible.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:33:12] So. good.  

 

Grace Freud [00:33:12] So good. And he’s got cancer right now. 

 

April Clark [00:33:14] I saw that. I saw that.  

 

Grace Freud [00:33:16] There’s a GoFundMe.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:33:18] Go donate to this GoFundMe. 

 

Grace Freud [00:33:20] I think it’s been on the I Think You Should Memes or whatever.  

 

April Clark [00:33:28] That guy is really great in the new season. He’s in one of my favorite sketches. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:33:33] One of my favorites.  

 

April Clark [00:33:35] It’s really good. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:33:38] “I went crazy!” 

 

April Clark [00:33:40] It’s so good. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:33:42] It’s so good. And that was immediately what made me go, “Oh, this season is just as good as the others. I’m going to rewatch that.” 

 

April Clark [00:33:47] It’s a great one. Yeah.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:33:48] It’s so good. On my watchlist this week–something new I’ve been into–the new season of Hoarders premiered. Don’t worry if you were missing prestige TV after Ted Lasso, we have Season 14 of Hoarders. Although I will just say–and I’m probably the only one who noticed this–there is a mistake in the Hulu and Discovery+ app where it’s been labeled, “Season 13, Episode 1.” It’s Season 14 Episode 1. 

 

April Clark [00:34:31] I’m pissed off about that. I’m mad.  

 

Grace Freud [00:34:31] They’re so messy about that shit. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:34:34] They are so messy. 

 

Grace Freud [00:34:36] On American Dad, for instance, on Hulu, it’s listed differently than it is on Amazon, which is listed differently than it is on the official listings. I mean, honestly, I think that shows streaming’s basic disrespect for television.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:35:02] I mean, along with Max changing all the credits just to be like, “Creators.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:35:08] But I think it is the same kind of disrespect. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:35:09] It’s the same kind of thing. And now with reality shows, they aren’t giving us the full acknowledgment of, like, “This is a new season of Hoarders. We’re restructuring this with new doctors.” My favorite is gone.  

 

Grace Freud [00:35:23] Oh no.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:35:24] Yeah, which I’m sad about. Okay. Dr. David? He was very attractive, and he’s not there anymore. But we still have Dr. Robin Zasio. 

 

April Clark [00:35:32] I’ll send an email for you. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:35:33] Thank you. I’m starting a petition. 

 

Grace Freud [00:35:36] Do you think that he’s gone because he got hoarded? 

 

April Clark [00:35:40] Being a doctor Hoarders is a dangerous profession. It’s like looking into the sun. You’re gonna get collected. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:35:48] And as everyone knows, last season on Hoarders, they started making the doctors sleep overnight in the Hoard. 

 

Grace Freud [00:35:55] No! 

 

April Clark [00:35:56] Do they really call it the “Hoard.” That’s funny.  

 

Grace Freud [00:36:00] That’s kind of killer.  

 

April Clark [00:36:03] In my head, I’m like, “Should I be careful about the way I’m talking about hoarding? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:36:08] Is it ableism? Maybe? 

 

April Clark [00:36:12] Is it a disability to be a hoarder? Let’s get to the bottom of it right now. 

 

Grace Freud [00:36:16] The way you get them help–get them to stop doing this–is by making them feel like mythological monsters. To me, like, calling something a Hoard is being like, “Hey, good job.”  

 

April Clark [00:36:34] Listen, if you’re a hoarder listening to this episode of TV, I Say, I want you to know you don’t have enough stuff yet. Keep collecting.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:36:45] This season premiere, Dr. Robins says immediately, “This is the best Hoard I’ve ever seen.” Not just in terms of size. 

 

April Clark [00:36:52] Hoarders know something we don’t.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:36:53] This woman built basically full walls of Hoard and had what they called “goat trails” to get to her bedroom into different parts of the house–truly marked out goat trails that she had to, like, turn to the side to get through. Of course, this is, like, an 89-year-old woman and her husband–who’s, like, 90–who lived there. And so now they don’t make the doctors sleep in the Hoard because that’s probably how they lost Dr. David last season. Now they have the Hoarders recreate a fire escape, where they fake a fire and, like, pump in smoke and have an alarm go.  

 

Grace Freud [00:37:32] They did this to an 89-year-old woman?  

 

Ashley Ray [00:37:32] Yeah. To these old people. And they do it with the lights off. 

 

April Clark [00:37:37] Wait, do they actually torch the house?  

 

Ashley Ray [00:37:40] They just pump in fog. And then at first, they have them do it with the lights on, and they’re like, “Okay, lights on. Let’s see if you can get out in time.” 

 

April Clark [00:37:47] Scary to do to an old woman in general. 

 

Grace Freud [00:37:51] You could give her a heart attack. 

 

April Clark [00:37:54] Doing a fire drill with her seems messed up to begin with.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:37:59] They give a little prep, to be fair. They have them lay in the bed, and they’re like, “Okay, we’re going to do the alarm.” And you see them, like, trying to do it in a way where they’re like, “We’re going to get out quickly.” And this old couple was just, like, rolling on their backs like turtles, trying to get out of the bed.  

 

April Clark [00:38:13] I think I could fix a hoarder. They should probably get me on that show. 

 

Grace Freud [00:38:20] I could kill one for sure.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:38:20] Easily.  

 

April Clark [00:38:21] Here’s what I would do. I would trick a hoarder into collecting one item so disgusting they never want to hoard ever again.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:38:28] I mean, what would your idea of disgusting be? 

 

April Clark [00:38:31] I would need a writers’ room and ten weeks to come up with what that item is. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:38:35] Because, I mean, the hoarder was already… 

 

Grace Freud [00:38:39] WGA on strike! 

 

April Clark [00:38:42] No, we’ll use a different union.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:38:44] This woman had a dead cat in her fridge.  

 

Grace Freud [00:38:48] In her fridge, or in her freezer?  

 

April Clark [00:38:49] Well, you never know when you might need that.  

 

Grace Freud [00:38:51] Because that’s a big difference.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:38:55] It was her freezer. Yeah, that is a big difference. 

 

April Clark [00:38:56] Well, you need a dead one. You can’t just have the live ones. You need one of each.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:39:01] Okay. A lot of times you’re getting dead possums. 

 

Grace Freud [00:39:03] If you keep it in the fridge, you might just have a live cat that’s cold.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:39:05] That’s cold. Exactly.  

 

April Clark [00:39:07] You can put your cat in the fridge. Life hack–you can put your cat in the fridge. When you’re going away for a long weekend, put your cat in that fridge.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:39:16] Will it survive with all the maggot rotted food in there? 

 

April Clark [00:39:18] Maybe, maybe, maybe.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:39:20] But at the end of the day, it was a good premiere. It was a two-hour special episode, everybody. Sit back and get an extra hoard this week. And at the end of the day, they let her have two rooms clean. She managed to clear out two rooms, but she didn’t clean out her bedroom because she refused to throw out all of her Gatorade bottles.  

 

April Clark [00:39:41] Well, you might need those. You never know when you’re gonna need those.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:39:44] She was like, “They got a wide mouth. You can fit ice cubes through.” And I was like, “That is legit.” 

 

April Clark [00:39:48] You’re going to need them. I’m constantly like, “Oh, fuck. Where do I put all of my cubes?” 

 

Ashley Ray [00:40:01] “They don’t fit in my traditional water bottle.” I felt she came out on top. And most important, the husband had a place to sleep finally. And that was all he cared about. 

 

April Clark [00:40:08] What was he doing before? Standing up? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:40:09] Kind of. Yeah. He was kind of just, like, resting on a pile where he had to stay halfway up.  

 

April Clark [00:40:18] That’s love.  

 

Grace Freud [00:40:21] See, that to me sounds like a gay guy who wound up with a… That is a disaster queen right there. 

 

April Clark [00:40:29] I need a wife who would sleep standing up on my Hoard. And I would do that for my girlfriend. If she became a hoarder, I would sleep on the stuff.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:40:39] The best guys in the show sleep on the stuff. And I will say, like, Hoarders, I think, is a Pride Month show. I think it is gay.  

 

April Clark [00:40:49] They’re adding an H to the acronym. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:40:52] For “Hoarders.” Yeah. I think that they are part of the community. 

 

April Clark [00:40:56] Because you could say that gay guys are just hoarders of dick. Lesbians are just hoarders of tits and ass. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:41:04] And Birkenstocks.  

 

Grace Freud [00:41:06] Chapbooks.  

 

April Clark [00:41:07] Yeah. Yeah, that’s true.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:41:09] And there have been some episodes with–kind of what you said–Roger-type hoarders. Like, these old gay men who are like, “I can’t let go of my past.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:41:22] I’ve really never seen Hoarders. Is it always gross? What I’m asking is, “Do they always hoard trash? Or are there people who only hoard actual items? 

 

April Clark [00:41:36] If I were a hoarder, I would only hoard the top-quality shit. My house would be full of so much beautiful, expensive stuff. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:41:43] There are the just trash hoarders.  

 

Grace Freud [00:41:48] I’ve dealt with, like, older family members who, like, don’t have trash. They’re not keeping trash like that. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:41:55] And if you asked me, I’d be like, “This isn’t trash.” 

 

Grace Freud [00:41:57] Thousands of books and all this paperwork. And their whole house is, like, not Hoarders-level full, but, like, yeah… 

 

Ashley Ray [00:42:05] I think that, like, most of the people really are people who are like, “Oh, I went, and I bought, like, all this stuff because it was on sale at Goodwill. I couldn’t say no to ten hats that all look the same because they were a dollar.” And their family is like, “You don’t wear hats. What do you need this for?” And they’re just like, “It’s useful. I’m not throwing it out.” 

 

April Clark [00:42:25] But on some level with the, like, you know, keeping old paperwork and books and stuff–that’s just everyone’s dilemma. Like, you know, we live in a world where you’re told you can’t throw anything out. Most people don’t become hoarders, but most people are holding onto a bunch of shit and trash because they’ve been told they can’t throw it out.  

 

Grace Freud [00:42:48] I have, like, about 14,000 comic books. And I think sometimes when I tell people that, they think that is hoarding. 

 

April Clark [00:42:55] But I mean, what do you do with those? Once you’ve acquired them… Like, Grace, you know, I’ve been thinking you need even more stuff. I go into your house, I think, “You need more stuff. Have you seen how good the people on Hoarders are doing?” 

 

Grace Freud [00:43:13] A lot of empty space, and that’s dangerous. An assassin could be there.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:43:15] Most of the super old hoarders are people who are like, “I grew up during the Great Depression. We only had one can of beans in our house. So, I’m going to always have 100 million bottles of, like, cans of beans in my home.” 

 

April Clark [00:43:29] Well, you never know. The Great Depression could happen again.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:43:32] Exactly. And who’s prepared?  

 

April Clark [00:43:34] Not me.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:43:35] According to Hoarders, one in ten homes. One in ten homes are hoarded. 

 

Grace Freud [00:43:41] Wow. That’s not true.  

 

April Clark [00:43:48] If one in ten houses have truly inadvertently accumulated so much shit that you can’t even walk around– 

 

Ashley Ray [00:43:56] They do have a technical definition of “Hoard.” So, it is something like a number of rooms based on the size of the house you can’t walk into. So, if you have a one bedroom, and you can’t use that one bedroom, you’re a hoarder.  

 

April Clark [00:44:10] Yeah, I mean, that makes sense to me. I’m good. I think we should pathologize it even more.  

 

Grace Freud [00:44:17] Is there anybody who makes a hole in the Hoard and just goes at it? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:44:27] Oh, probably. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.  

 

Grace Freud [00:44:29] Probably? So, they haven’t really explored that? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:44:31] They don’t really get into that. But sometimes there’s, like, you know, really lonely hoarders. 

 

Grace Freud [00:44:35] There should be a show that’s called, like, Hoarders Nights.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:44:38] And I would watch it. Any other shows you’re watching?  

 

Grace Freud [00:44:45] I’m also watching the news.  

 

April Clark [00:44:49] It’s pretty gay.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:44:50] It’s pretty gay right now. Yeah.  

 

Grace Freud [00:44:52] I would like to shout out Peripheral. I just started watching that.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:44:56] Oh, yeah. That on Amazon Prime Video.  

 

April Clark [00:44:59] Wow.  

 

Grace Freud [00:45:00] I would like to shout out Severance. 

 

April Clark [00:45:05] That’s pretty gay. I had that surgery done so that I split my memories between when I’m having gay sex and when I’m having straight sex. 

 

Grace Freud [00:45:12] As an East German, I’d like to shout out the Handball channel. All the matches you could possibly want to see. So, I would check out the Handball channel, even if you don’t know how handball is played. It’s pretty easy. It’s slow.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:45:34] Is it like pickleball but with hands? 

 

Grace Freud [00:45:35] No! 

 

Ashley Ray [00:45:37] Oh, okay.  

 

Grace Freud [00:45:38] Sorry. 

 

April Clark [00:45:45] The German passion.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:45:46] Yes. East German passion.  

 

April Clark [00:45:48] East German passion.  

 

Grace Freud [00:45:53] I do forgive you. I do forgive you because much like the Handball channel, which was recently bought by a Westboro Baptist Church, I have accepted Christ in my life recently. 

 

April Clark [00:46:08] Oh, recently? And that’s made you a better person or a worse person? 

 

Grace Freud [00:46:12] Different for sure.  

 

April Clark [00:46:15] That’s awesome. I love when you switch to the American accent. You’re getting really good at it.  

 

Grace Freud [00:46:18] Well, yeah. American Dad taught me.   

 

Ashley Ray [00:46:25] Perfect English. Yeah. April, anything else you’re watching?  

 

April Clark [00:46:27] Anything else I’ve been watching? What have I been watching? 

 

Grace Freud [00:46:30] The lying show.  

 

April Clark [00:46:31] What? 

 

Grace Freud [00:46:32] The lying show you love.  

 

April Clark [00:46:33] The lying show? Oh, that was, like, a year ago almost. Tell Me Lies. I love that show. It’s incredible. It’s the next Riverdale. I swear to God. It’s so good. One time we were playing pool, and the whole cast of Tell Me Lies was playing pool at the table across from us. And I freaked out.  

 

Grace Freud [00:47:12] April was like, “That’s the prettiest a girl can be.” 

 

April Clark [00:47:14] Don’t get me started. She’s so beautiful.  

 

Grace Freud [00:47:17] And I looked her up. I’m not trying to be mean, but… Pretty girl, but I mean… 

 

Ashley Ray [00:47:24] I’m looking. This was the first time I’m ever hearing about this show. 

 

April Clark [00:47:30] Are you serious? You have to watch it and talk about it. It’s so good.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:47:32] Isn’t there, like, a cop procedural show that’s, like, Tell Me Lies or something with, like, an old guy… 

 

Grace Freud [00:47:36] You’re talking about the Tim Roth show.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:47:38] Yeah. 

 

Grace Freud [00:47:39] It’s called Lie to Me. Actually, it was really fun.  

 

April Clark [00:47:43] Tell Me Lies is, like, a Hulu original drama or whatever. You actually haven’t seen it? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:47:49] It’s set in 2007? 

 

April Clark [00:47:53] Yes. It’s a period piece. It’s so crazy.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:48:00] I’ve never heard of this.  

 

April Clark [00:48:02] Are you serious?  

 

Ashley Ray [00:48:04] I am 100% serious. 

 

April Clark [00:48:04] It’s literally insane. Oh my God.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:48:06] It’s on Hulu?  

 

April Clark [00:48:07] Yes. When it started coming out, my friend Callie put me on to it. And then I started watching it weekly. It is so good. 

 

Grace Freud [00:48:13] She’s obsessed with this show.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:48:15] One of the production companies behind it, by the way, is Refinery29.  

 

April Clark [00:48:18] Are you serious? That makes so much sense. We need more of that. That has to happen more. It’s incredible.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:48:27] Oh my gosh. Okay. I’m also discovering here that it looks like a lot of the episodes are named after Blink 182 songs.  

 

April Clark [00:48:34] That probably is true. I don’t know.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:48:37] Season One, Episode Four: “Take Off Your Pants and Jacket.” Episode Five is “Merry Fucking Christmas.” So now I’m suddenly all in on the show.  

 

April Clark [00:48:45] No, but I didn’t look at the episode names, is what I’m saying.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:48:48] Oh, there’s also a Fall Out Boy. 

 

Grace Freud [00:48:50] You watched it on Hulu, right?  

 

April Clark [00:48:51] I didn’t look at that.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:48:52] There’s also a Sugar, We’re Goin’ Down Swinging.  

 

April Clark [00:48:55] Oh my God.  

 

Grace Freud [00:48:56] Wow. You don’t like that music.  

 

April Clark [00:48:58] You do? 

 

Ashley Ray [00:48:59] Wow. Poser. 

 

Grace Freud [00:49:01] Yes! Well, I don’t like… No, I like all of it, actually.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:49:04] Yeah, I like Blink 182.  I don’t know if I would really say I was a Fall Out Boy person.  

 

Grace Freud [00:49:08] I was a Fall Out Boy person in my youth. I would just like to shout out one more TV show. It’s our show that we have coming out. It comes out this Sunday. It’s called The Idol. It’s coming. on HBO. We’re really excited. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:49:24] It’s going to be on Max.  

 

Grace Freud [00:49:25] We’ve got girls doing crazy shit! Like, being naked and fucking! 

 

April Clark [00:49:31] We’ve got girls taking their tops off! And listen, the Weeknd is a character that I’ve been writing for several years.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:49:38] And collaborating with Sam Levinson–how was that? 

 

April Clark [00:49:41] He’s also a character we made up together.  

 

Grace Freud [00:49:43] That guy is kind of a pussy, honestly.  

 

April Clark [00:49:45] He got out of our control and became real. He sucks.  

 

Grace Freud [00:49:49] The thing about Sam… We were constantly like, “No, she needs to be hit two more times or whatever.” And he was like, “No! No! No!” And we were like, “Sam, shut the fuck up!” 

 

April Clark [00:50:05] I put some of my baser urges into the character. And that’s why, you know, it kind of played out in a weird way. And I’m sorry for that. He’s done some pretty bad things. I don’t think I can be held entirely responsible.  

 

Grace Freud [00:50:17] Yes. You know, we got a 25-minute standing ovation at Cannes. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:50:25] Yeah. We saw that. 

 

Grace Freud [00:50:28] And I guess people are saying, “Oh, that was at gunpoint.” No, those security guards just had those guns pointed at the audience in the spirit of the show.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:50:42] Raise the tension.  

 

Grace Freud [00:50:43] Right. You know, like our theme song, “Anything can happen. Anything can happen.”  

 

April Clark [00:50:51] That’s the theme song of The Idol. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:50:53] Yeah. Yeah.  

 

Grace Freud [00:50:56] So it was like, “What will happen? Will they shoot? Will they not?” And they didn’t.  

 

April Clark [00:51:00] It’s a real experience. The show is best enjoyed holding a gun to your own head.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:51:06] Yes. I think that’s what the Rolling Stone review said.  

 

April Clark [00:51:08] How come we only used the risk of death to make, like, jacking off better? Why don’t we do it for more things? You should be on the verge of death constantly.  

 

Grace Freud [00:51:18] Whenever we were writing The Idol, we were constantly holding a gun up to our heads and playing Russian roulette. By all accounts, one of those trigger pulls should have ended it.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:51:36] Yeah. But no. Now instead, this Sunday, we have an entire season of The Idol to look forward to. 

 

Grace Freud [00:51:41] Yes. We’re so proud of it. Thank you to the Weeknd. Thank you to Lily-Rose Depp.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:51:51] Rachael Sennott is in it. 

 

April Clark [00:51:53] Yeah, absolutely. That girl is in it. 

 

Grace Freud [00:51:56] We are sorry to all of the women. 

 

April Clark [00:52:00] Dan Levy is in it. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:52:00] People who you’re like, “This? You’re in it?” But they’re in it.  

 

April Clark [00:52:04] They’re in it. I mean, it’s a crazy cast.  

 

Grace Freud [00:52:10] We got everybody to be in it because we told them it was a revival of Transparent. 

 

April Clark [00:52:13] We tried to get Don Cheadle. We couldn’t pull it off.  

 

Grace Freud [00:52:16] And he hates trans people, so he wouldn’t do it. But we told him all of these people. We told Dan Levy, “Hey, we’re doing a revival of Transparent, Will you be in it?” And he was like, “Yeah, sister.” And then he shows up to the set– 

 

April Clark [00:52:31] In drag. 

 

Grace Freud [00:52:32] In drag.  

 

April Clark [00:52:32] And we were like, “Oh no…” 

 

Grace Freud [00:52:36] He was so embarrassed by that. He just did whatever we said. And he was on The Idol.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:52:39] Yeah, he kind of has that vibe. Grace. April. This has been an illuminating episode. We’ve gotten to the bottom of the most important TV issues. I want to thank you for joining TV Club today. And most importantly, I want to ask everyone listening to go listen to their podcast, The Girl Got experience on Earwolf Presents. Subscribe, follow, and download. All through the summer, you’re going to have original episodes from Girl God. Mano Agapion and Oscar, who are The Try Gays–they’re going to try straight stuff. And also, Jacob Wysocki touring LA’s wild expo scene.  

 

Grace Freud [00:53:12] Awesome 

 

Ashley Ray [00:53:13] Yeah, so you don’t want to miss Earwolf Presents. 

 

Grace Freud [00:53:15] And watch The Idol this Sunday at 9:00 p.m. on HBO! 

 

April Clark [00:53:19] And then listen to our podcast, The Girl God Experience.  Get your mind blown.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:53:24] Get your mind blown. It’s going to change your life. It’s already changed my mind. Just some quick, quick homework to say goodbye this week. I’m going to ask you to watch all of The Great on Hulu. All of it’s out, so I’m going to ask you to watch it because there’s a big twist that we need to dig into. So, we’re going to have some special stuff from The Great coming up. I’m also going to ask you to watch The Curious Case of Natalie Grace, which is on Max. It is a six-part documentary being aired over three days. So, there’s six episodes, but they were, like, two parts. And it is about a family that adopts a girl who they think is a young child, and then they believe she is actually a 22-year-old who has been pretending to be a child. But then there’s so many twists and turns. And the parents are in the documentary. And it is the wildest thing I’ve ever seen where, like, the dad just starts punching the floor and is just like, “We were all abused!” And it is the wildest documentary. So, I’m going to have a big documentary roundup for you. And that is…  

 

Grace Freud [00:54:26] Do you think she is a kid?  

 

Ashley Ray [00:54:27] I can’t decide yet! I started it and was like, “She’s definitely an adult.” And then by Episode Two, I was like, “She’s definitely a kid.” And then I just was like, “I don’t know.” 

 

April Clark [00:54:36] I’m a truther. I don’t even think she’s real.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:54:38] I like that take, too. She was one of those dolls.  

 

April Clark [00:54:41] I think they made her up. She’s actually a character I’ve been working on for years.  

 

Grace Freud [00:54:46] At the end of the day, whatever side of that debate you’re on, please watch The Idol at 9:00 p.m. on HBO Max, this Sunday. We are really psyched.  

 

Ashley Ray [00:54:56] Yes. And listen to The Girl God Experience. And hey, if you loved this episode of TV, I Say, why don’t you go tell some friends about it? Give me five stars and tell your friends. Give a listen to the episode or something, you know? You know what it is. And also, you can see Girl God Live with me for my Pride Month field tour that I’m hosting this month. We’re going to be in Chicago, New York, and LA. LA IS going to feature Girl God, Alison Stevenson, Brian Bahe, and some other amazing comics. 

 

Grace Freud [00:55:25] And we might be bringing a special guest with us. 

 

Ashley Ray [00:55:28] Maybe a special guest. And it’s going to be super gay. If you download the Field app, it’ll be free. So, get tickets for that, and keep on listening to TV, I Say. We’ll be back next week for another episode. TV, I Say with Ashley Ray is an Earwolf production made by me, Ashley Ray-Harris. It’s engineered by Abby Aguilar, produced by Scott Sonne, executive produced by Amelia Chappelow. And our original theme song is by RaFia. It means so much to me if you go rate, review, subscribe. Follow TV, I Say. Let us know what you think and tell your friends. Share with your Golden Girls. Tell your Boys. If you love my TV recommendations, let everyone you know know. For special TV Club members, join my Patreon. And you can also find my full archive of ad free episodes of TV, I Say over on Stitcher Premium. Use Promo code “tvisay”–all one word–for a one-month free trial at stitcher.com/premium.