EP. 112 — Erin Gibson

Jameela [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil, a podcast against shame. I hope you’re well. But. What happened in an elementary school in Texas this week makes it really hard for most of us to even comprehend what kind of world we are living in and it is just fucking weekly atrocity upon atrocity in the news cycle but this being such young children and this being the 27th mass shooting in America this year, and it’s only May or at the end of May. It just makes you wonder what what is going to be enough for us to have gun laws that protect people? All these same people crying, pro-life, pro-life, caring about all these children that don’t even exist, doing nothing, lifting not a finger to protect the children already here. Soon as they’re out the womb, they’re on their own. And this isn’t me trying to crowbar the abortion conversation into a tragedy. This is me saying that these same senators claim to care so much about the lives of children, about the lives of citizens, about the futures of all these people they haven’t even met yet. And yet they won’t do a single thing in over two decades since Columbine, they won’t do anything to make this country just a little bit safer. We’ve seen this work again and again in other countries. And I know that we’re never going to be able to abolish all guns in the United States, but we need some sort of legislation creating restrictions that stop this from happening with such ease. What is it going to take? My heart goes out, of course, to the victims, to the families of the victims, to the families of the teachers who gave up their lives to protect the children that they are supposed to just be educating, but also a special thought goes out today to all of the parents around the United States. Being a parent is already terrifying enough. Nevermind literally not knowing if when you pick up your child from school, if they’re going to be there. Because nobody is doing anything to protect your children. I’ve spent this week just texting all of my friends who are parents in the United States. And checking in on them because. I can’t imagine that feeling. I can’t imagine how afraid and disappointed you are. It is truly unfathomable to me, and it must be extremely challenging to have to send your child to school here. So you have all of my love and I will continue to do my best to keep raising awareness around this subject and keep fighting and try to stop falling into the trap we all fall into if they’re never going to change. We have to make them change. We have to become. I mean, if if we’re not incentivized by now, we have to get there. We are in an emergency. We have to do everything we can to educate ourselves about our political leaders and make sure that at every level of government, we are electing the people who reflect our values. Now, today’s episode is not directly related, obviously, to what’s just happened in the news, but. Parts of it, I think resonate with me because a lot of it is about how we take control back of the situation when it comes to how our lives are being managed by members of government who clearly do not give a shit about us and what we can do to change that. I’m speaking today to Erin Gibson, a podcaster and producer, a writer. She’s won countless awards. A wonderful comedian who is extremely vocal about so many things. And I’m going to have to ask her to come back on this podcast because there’s so many things I want to dig in with her about. But we got talking about pro-choice and abortion rights and health care and the fight against that, the fight against our humanity and our dignity and what we can do about it. And she’s super knowledgeable about the system in a way that I simply can’t be, because I’m still relatively new here. And we have such an interesting and open discussion about the current abortion crisis, where it’s coming from media fear mongering and why people don’t think critically anymore. We talk about conspirituality, which I didn’t know about before, and I urge you to listen so you can learn about it, too. It’ll it’ll definitely ring a bell as to things that you see online. We talk about her relationship with depression and where she found comfort and we talk about local politics and all of the ways in which we can empower ourselves and empower each other and empower generations to follow. So I hope you find it interesting. I hope you’re okay. This is a wonderful episode and a much needed chat. We need more of these chats. We need to normalize the conversation around everything to do with the female reproductive system. And it’s just vital that we talk about the rights of people with uteruses, about the rights of the people, about our rights to be represented by people who are doing their best to protect and serve us. Lots of love. This is Erin Gibson. Erin Bloody Gibson. Welcome to I Weigh. 

Erin [00:05:40] Thank you for for finally getting someone finally got my middle name right. I appreciate that. 

Jameela [00:05:44] How are you? 

Erin [00:05:47] You know, I’m I’m doing excellent considering the circumstances. 

Jameela [00:05:51] Fine, I’ll take that. And the circumstances are really dog shit. So that’s a big deal, actually. 

Erin [00:05:56] For sure. Dog shit is the only way I could describe it. 

Jameela [00:06:01] 100%. And, dog shit might not even be as bad. At least that’s a neat little turd most of the time we are in a ginormous shit show. It feels like, do you remember that massive shit in sorry everyone but in Jurassic Park? 

Erin [00:06:16] Absolutely. 

Jameela [00:06:17] Laura Dern like just gets involved in. I feel like that is the state of the world, especially for women and people with uteruses. 

Erin [00:06:24] And we’ve not come out of it. We’re still in it. We’re trying to find our way out. 

Jameela [00:06:28] Knee deep, knee deep. Maybe tits deep. I’m tits deep. Oh, my goodness. So are you just feeling good today or. I mean, have you been struggling in the last month? I’ve been really fucking struggling. I’m not sleeping. 

Erin [00:06:41] Oh, yeah, I’m not sleeping. And just dips. Dips every day of just waking up and be like, I think I think I can do this today. And then reading 1 second of any media publication. 

Jameela [00:06:55] I’ve been naughty and I haven’t read the news since last Friday because I just can’t take I need a break. 

Erin [00:07:03] I think that’s very healthy. I don’t think people

Jameela [00:07:05] Has anything happened since then. Have we like are we still allowed to be educated? Have they taken away our driver’s licenses. 

Erin [00:07:10] Four shootings in the US since last Friday. 

Jameela [00:07:14] Fuck me. Yes. No, that even managed to reach me. But you know what? Thank goodness guns have more laws to protect them than uteruses do. 

Erin [00:07:25] And you can get them before you can drink. And I think that’s a always that’s a great rule of thumb. 

Jameela [00:07:30] And it’s a decision you’re allowed to make yourself. I’m so happy for guns. Having so many rights must be cool. Talk to me about how how you’re feeling about all this abortion shit. 

Erin [00:07:43] Well, I have to be honest with you, because I have I am very niche involved in like granular laws in the US and have been for the last 12 years. 

Jameela [00:07:56] Love that. 

Erin [00:07:57] I saw it coming. I knew it was going to happen and I knew Kavanaugh was a fucking liar. I knew I you know, I wanted to call. 

Jameela [00:08:06] As for Amy phoney Barrett for goodness sake. 

Erin [00:08:09] We have gone through several iterations of what we call her on my show. We started with Amy Clowney butthole, but I think now we’re going to stick with Amy Cummy Blanket and we call Kavanaugh we call Kavanaugh Kava-no. 

Jameela [00:08:27] Oh my God. 

Erin [00:08:29] But these we call him beer Kavano. There is a direct correlation with people becoming marginalized people and people who have been historically excluded, feeling more seen and heard. And then the clampdown of actually no. Oh, the birthrates down. Guess what? We’re going to overturn Roe versus Wade like the U.S. birth stats are like nobody under 30’s having kids. And so they’re like, oh, women have too much power. Just just the idea that, like, we’re getting a we’re making some monumental steps forward and this is them kicking us back down the stairs. 

Jameela [00:09:15] Yeah, exactly. I mean, that’s what I mean. Gloria Steinem came on to this podcast and said that every single moment of progress is always, always followed by a supreme backlash, and that the cornerstone and sort of first step of every single historical authoritarian regime was to control people’s uteruses, to control reproductive rights. And that is a terrifying pattern. And then looking back into Hitler and like all these different dictators,. 

Erin [00:09:42] The fascist. Yeah. 

Jameela [00:09:43] Yeah. 

Erin [00:09:44] Mussolini did it. 

Jameela [00:09:45] Exactly. Exactly. It’s always there. And and it’s just there are so many levels to it that there are. I mean, just awkwardly apparent like. The amount of complaint there has been about immigrants, refugees coming into this country being like, we don’t have enough resources. We are you know, we have too many homeless people where, you know, too many people starving and and then they’re forcing more home grown bodies. It’s ridiculous. 

Erin [00:10:13] Well also. 

Jameela [00:10:14] So which one is it? 

Erin [00:10:15] It’s the same. They just flip the record. It’s the same song. They’re just flipping the record, like, you know, I’m Irish-American. My my great grandmother came here from Ireland and, you know, she couldn’t get a job because that was it was like just people focusing their hate on different groups to just, I don’t know, some stupid outlet for their inherited trauma that they refused to stop some kind of, like, hateful shit that’s running through their veins. And now and then they just pick a new group. That’s what they do. There’s no they don’t actually care about anybody. I don’t even think they care about themselves. 

Jameela [00:10:53] Well, that’s that that famous quote that’s been going around about the fact that the unborn a very convenient group to advocate for because they don’t. 

Erin [00:11:00] They require nothing. 

Jameela [00:11:01] Require any resources. Yeah. So they’ll never take and so therefore you can advocate for them as the sort of like, I don’t know, ethereal being the second that babies out the fucking way and they’re on their own parents on their own. 

Erin [00:11:15] We have the highest maternal mortality rate of any of a country this wealthy, we have the highest. So we’re not doing. 

Jameela [00:11:24] For the people that have access to health care. 

Erin [00:11:25] Yeah. And because we have a we have a real disrespect for people who are going through birth. 

Jameela [00:11:32] It’s also like it’s $50,000 to have a baby to give birth if you don’t have insurance. 

Erin [00:11:38] Let me tell you something. 

Jameela [00:11:41] I mean a baby is coming out regardless. 

Erin [00:11:43] You there’s no stopping it. No, I remember I was like, in between I was like transitioning from being an actor to a writer. And I was about I was I had my SAG insurance had just lapsed. And I was about to get covered for from WGA. But I had like a six month window where I wasn’t covered and I fell asleep in a pair of jogging pants and they were really tight. And my nightmare was that I was pregnant and I didn’t want to have the baby because I didn’t want to go into medical debt. 

Jameela [00:12:16] Wow. A fucking nightmare. So talk to me about your because I know you have a really. 

Erin [00:12:21] My sweatpants. 

Jameela [00:12:22] Understanding of the system, because I think a lot of us are feeling incredibly helpless and confused and I especially as a non-American. I’m absolutely blown away. And by the way, you know, we’re seeing this in Brazil. We’re seeing this in Poland. We’re seeing this in all these countries that we didn’t expect how everyone’s returning to religious kind of extremism, at least as an excuse. Why is that? Why is that? What is this like, come back? It’s like a it’s like Jesus is having a re-cconaissance. It’s like what is happening? 

Erin [00:12:59] It’s the perception. Well, there’s this. There’s this replacement theory shit that’s going around that’s like white people being like. 

Jameela [00:13:05] Yeah will you talk about that. I you know, we see Tucker Carlson kind of alluding to it constantly. Will you explain that to people. 

Erin [00:13:10] Pretend that I’m an expert, even without the bowtie. 

Jameela [00:13:11] I’ve heard the word a lot this week. 100%

Erin [00:13:12] It’s basically that white people are being replaced by other people. So it’s really white cisgendered men are being replaced. Those are those are the people who are like butthurt and threatened that other people have, I don’t know, a house, a place to live, jobs they’re just it just you know they take it as a personal assault that other people exist. And that there’s finite room for everybody, which I guess in theory there is. But, you know, not to bring it back to when I was a commercial actress, but I remember like when I first started. First came to Hollywood and I was doing like commercial acting for those of you who don’t know is like print modeling for normal people who can deliver a joke, I guess. But it was. So I walk into a room and there was like 85 people who looked like me. I didn’t feel special anymore and I had a real identity crisis. And I remember my my ex at the time was like, there is enough to go around if you don’t get this job. It’s not the person who’s next to you in that room. It’s not their fault. It’s some crazy shit outside of your control. And there’s no one to blame in the scenario. You know, the system is just kind of fucked. And I always think about that when I think about these people who are like, No, you’re the reason that my life sucks. It’s not the case. It’s just it’s easier. It’s so much easier to point at somebody or point a group of people and say, you’re the reason my life is shitty rather than being like this massive. Invisible. Governmental organization is the reason that my life sucks. The fact that we don’t have any industry here is the reason my life sucks like that. So like that’s difficult. 

Jameela [00:15:02] For sure. But I’m not trying to be an apologist when I say that I do also make some space for the fact that the media, especially this like bi partisan media where we’re both being shown completely different statistics, studies stories with completely different I follow All Sides now and Ground News, which are centrist publications because the left also guilty of hyperbole or dishonesty or racism, ableism, fatphobia transphobia, so much transphobia on the left. So I follow a lot of centrist publications who who do a really good job in showing both left and right headlines right alongside each other of the same incident, to show the ways in which things are being twisted, to ignite outrage in both in both different groups. Right. And so for what. 

Erin [00:15:51] These people 

Jameela [00:15:51] Right? Yeah, exactly. For division, because outrage and division sells papers in the way that sex used to. We kind of hyper inflated on the value of sex because everyone got their buttholes out. And so now and that’s great. But now division and outrage is the new sex. So I do have empathy for all these people who are genuinely afraid about abortion, afraid about the birth rate going down, afraid about being replaced. Only because all that is happening to them is that they are being terrorized and fearmongered and. Unless you are already following people and unless your algorithm is already showing you things that are from the other side, if all you are seeing is a barrage of what you can’t even distinguish as xenophobic anymore because it’s what everything you’re seeing looks like, then I can understand the fear. The media has so much blood on its hands that it’s terrifying. Again, I’m not trying to be an apologist, but I do also think it’s really important to to identify the cause and not just the symptom. 

Erin [00:16:56] For sure. And also, like people don’t have the skills to do the thing that you you’ve done, which is seek out other things like we don’t we have a very large decline in civics classes in at the high school level in the US education system. 

Jameela [00:17:09] What’s that what’s a civics class? 

Erin [00:17:11] How does the government work. How how how to how to read, how to have critical thinking like we have we don’t have any any classes that teach critical thinking skills and we don’t have classes that teach civics. So people don’t know how the government works and they also don’t. They don’t understand how to question things in a way that doesn’t make media the ultimate authority. It’s like, okay, for example. My mom doesn’t know she doesn’t have to pick up her cell phone. Like she’s from a generation of people who when the phone rings, you pick it up. Okay. So oftentimes what’ll happen is, like, I’ll call her and she’ll get mad at me because she’s like, I’m at the doctor and I’m like, don’t answer the phone. But she’s so trained in the way that the phone needs to be answered. And I feel like there’s a lot of people here who, especially in the U.S., who are like Facebook is the news, Twitter is the news, and the news is right. NBC Nightly News, CNN, MSNBC. It’s all right. You know, sometimes I watch Rachel Maddow and I’m like, I don’t know if I agree. You know, and that. 

Jameela [00:18:22] Same. 

Erin [00:18:22] Because I have a healthy sense of of questioning everything. It’s exhausting. 

Jameela [00:18:28] Right. But you’re also in a society that that if you dare to attempt critical thinking, you’re accused of doubting whichever side, quote, unquote, that you’ve picked, and then you’re a bad person, you’re complicit, and you may as well just be a fuckin xenophobic supremacist. You know, I mean, a white supremacist. So that’s also something. 

Erin [00:18:48] Or you’re uppity.

Jameela [00:18:48] I, I yeah. 

Erin [00:18:50] I don’t know if you know that term. 

Jameela [00:18:51] Yeah, we know. We know. I think anyone who is socialized as female has been called uppity at some point in her life. 

Erin [00:18:58] I was talking about this with a friend the other day. Like, what do people get out of reading things that are incendiary like that? What does it activate something in you? And if it does like, you need to think about why. 

Jameela [00:19:12] Well, what incendiary like what? Also, what does incindiery mean? 

Erin [00:19:15] Well when you read something that we’re. Well, like shit talking articles. 

Jameela [00:19:18] Oh right. Rah, right, right, right, right. 

Erin [00:19:20] Or demeaning shit. Or like. 

Jameela [00:19:22] Okay, well, I can. I can speak for those people, right? I am a I’m a trash bag. I think when you feel. 

Erin [00:19:28] You read the mirror is what you’re saying. 

Jameela [00:19:30] I’ve definitely done it like I’ve definitely done it. I’ve been also like a slut shaming public figure trash bag twat. Like, I so I think what it is, is a for me at least it was misplaced rage, right? 

Erin [00:19:43] For sure. 

Jameela [00:19:43] I was assaulted when I was younger. I didn’t have an outlet. I picked the easiest target that was other women. Because I was young and ignorant and lazy. I didn’t underst, didn’t even know the term patriarchy, didn’t really know what misogyny was. I just I was just full of hate and I just spewed it out at probably the place where I was least likely to be hit back, which was other women. And now I still criticize sometimes other women, but also men. But I always do it. Always I triple check myself beforehand to make sure that I’m doing something that is just correct, fair and for women, rather than against that one woman to just be a dick. You know what I mean?  

Erin [00:20:21] Yes. Although some women do deserve it. 

Jameela [00:20:22] That’s what I’m saying. 

Erin [00:20:24] Oh, yes. Okay. Well, that’s some people go the other way where they’re like, we can never criticize women because that’s been. 

Jameela [00:20:31] Well, that goes back to a lack of critical thinking. Doesn’t it? 

Erin [00:20:36] Just like a full black and white, like. No, it should be like this or this. That’s it. 

Jameela [00:20:40] But for other people, I think, you know, when you’re having. I don’t know. Low self-esteem. Right. And you’re feeling like shit about yourself. A literal tactic in design. We even had a tabloid journalist, a former a reformed, recovered tabloid journalist on this podcast Dean Piper, in that we were talking about the fact that they are deliberately catering to making you feel bad about like better about your life. It’s like, well, your life isn’t as bad as X or you don’t look as bad as X or look at this ugly picture of X’s thighs. Don’t you feel so much better about yourself? Also, by the way, just in case anyone was wondering or looking at the phone, that was my phone alarm. That was my boyfriend’s phone alarm that went off because he’s having a little nap in the room. So don’t worry. You haven’t missed an alarm. I just want to make sure that no one heard that sound and then sort of panicking. 

Erin [00:21:27] Their parking meter’s up. 

Jameela [00:21:28] Yeah, exactly. No, I agree. I so I do think that, you know, like the more we are stepped on by society, the more the cost of living becomes impossible. The more that we are we are pushed down. The more we I think it’s a it’s a it’s an unfortunate human trait to, like, want to gossip about someone else or or feel holier than someone else. It’s like, yeah, ok, I’m a fuck up. Yeah, I’m ignorant but at least I haven’t made the mistake that they have made publicly. I’m going to pile on them and exert my superiority in this brief moment in which I can actually feel superior. I don’t mean that in a patronizing way, I say that as one of the the trash people. 

Erin [00:22:13] I mean, look, everybody, I’ve had a similar trajectory where I was raised in the South and I was raised to be a straight up dingaling and I was not taught to. There’s a term in the South called your MS degree, which is basically you go to college to get married, and that’s it. 

Jameela [00:22:32] Right. 

Erin [00:22:33] So that’s what I grew up with. I grew up thinking like, I don’t deserve autonomy, I don’t deserve to have a career. And I remember when I moved to Chicago to start doing Second City there. I started just like reading so many books about this, cause I was like, Why do I feel better now that I’m not in the South anymore? Why do I feel better? And that kind of helped me to like, realize all the things that I had been taught and had been ingrained in me about being less than and not having control over what was happening or being said to me or whatever. And I don’t know, I, I feel very lucky that I have come from being someone who was like, I’m a guy’s girl. I only hang out with the guys. 

Jameela [00:23:21] Same. 

Erin [00:23:22] You know, that shit. Just thinking about whether or not I am fuckable or whatever. And then going from that to being like, I cannot tell you how lucky I am. And all this isn’t just a gender thing, but like my friends are so different and from all kinds of places and all kinds of identities. And my life is so much richer now because I don’t have that, like, binary way of thinking, but I only gain that from removing myself from that situation. And I don’t think a lot of people have that luxury. It’s a luxury to be able to go and, like explore yourself and like figure out who you are outside of these systems that you’ve been raised in. Because sometimes those systems, even though they’re fucked up. It feels safe. 

Jameela [00:24:19] What’s your advice for people who might be listening to this, who are starting to see more on social media and look around and listen to podcasts like this and watch things like Broad City who are just like, fuck, maybe there’s more for me. What is your advice? 

Erin [00:24:34] You can’t be scared. Like the fear is what keeps people from from doing that. 

Jameela [00:24:39] You can be scared. Maybe you don’t have to be navigating your life according to your fear. 

Erin [00:24:45] Maybe. Yeah. No, that’s very good advice. Like you will be scared. I was. I moved to Chicago with $300. I had no money. I didn’t know what the fuck I was doing. I found a roommate on Craigslist. Like, that’s something that I just decided to to be okay with, you know, even though I was petrified, but. I do say everything I have done has really scared me. Has always paid off in spades. Because it’s I leveled up in ways that I never even imagined. I just thought it would be moving to this thing or trying this job or whatever. But it’s just made me a calmer, nicer, more compassionate and also more critical person of the things around me. I mean, I have a friend who called me and he was like, you know, I went to high school with this person. I loved her so much. She was so incredible and compassionate. But now she’s a hard core Republican and she’s into conspirituality. And I don’t know what to do about it. And my first question was. 

Jameela [00:25:45] What did you call it? Conspirituality? 

Erin [00:25:47] Conspirituality which is

Jameela [00:25:48] What is that? 

Erin [00:25:50] It’s yoga plus QAnon basically it’s like,. 

Jameela [00:25:53] What?! 

Erin [00:25:55] Oh, yeah, it’s huge. In L.A. it’s actually huge in New Mexico too. 

Jameela [00:25:59] Wait so you didn’t make this up? This is a thing?

Erin [00:26:00] No no, that’s a I have I heard another a person more brilliant than me told me. And I was like, that’s a great term. 

Jameela [00:26:07] Okay, wait so break it down for me. 

Erin [00:26:10] Okay. It’s conspiracy, conspiracy theories plus spirituality. And it often happens with people who are into what you would think of as like natural healing modalities maybe they’re a little skeptical of your Western medicine. Maybe they’re they think that if they have, like, a bad kidney, that yoga can heal that. That’s how it kind of starts. And then COVID made it worse. Because

Jameela [00:26:40] Because of the vaccine and that sort of thing

Erin [00:26:41] QAnon got in the mix. 

Jameela [00:26:42] Right yeah yeah. 

Erin [00:26:43] Yes. So then QAnon. So, you know, I have yoga. I know friends of friends who are in the yoga community who are straight up, QAnon believers. And if you look at the circle of those things. Spirituality because people are trying to like organize and put modalities on this abstract thing. Kind of feels like QAnon in a way, and sometimes they kiss. I listen I believe in weird shit I like. I live in New Mexico now and I’m fully into the alien scene. 

Jameela [00:27:22] Oh really? 

Erin [00:27:22] Oh, I love it. I love it. But it feels like magic to me, you know? It doesn’t feel like an escape. I’m just like, we live in a magical place. This could totally be possible. I put crystals-. 

Jameela [00:27:33] I’ve gotten into feng shui. That’s my that’s my confession. That’s my confession to everyone. I’m really into feng shui. 

Erin [00:27:39] But isn’t it fun? It’s fun to be able to look at the world in a different way. 

Jameela [00:27:41] I got into it over the pandemic and it’s just been really fascinating. And I love it. And it’s just it’s just blown my mind. And then I’ve learned more about it. I found out that in Vegas, all of the, um, like it’s feng shui consultants who have positioned all of the buildings in certain directions that everyone loses all their money and that they get everyone’s money. 

Erin [00:28:01] I guarantee if you start getting deep into feng shui and like you get into like subreddits, there will be conspirituality in there. I feel like those, there’s a lot there’s got to be a crossover there. 

Jameela [00:28:13] Oh, of course. Of course. I mean, it’s just it’s so it’s so easy. It’s so easy to get sucked in. Had Tyler Henry on this podcast, didn’t really believe in ghosts. And after that I was like, Fuck, I’m too scared to masturbate now. Cause he said that they’re watching, you know? 

Erin [00:28:29] Well, if you’re raised Catholic, you’re already too scared to masturbate because Jesus is watching. So I’d rather have I’d rather have it be like, I don’t know, 18th century Italian. 

Jameela [00:28:43] Victorian. Yeah. 

Erin [00:28:43] Victorian child. I’d rather that than the Jesus Christ. Okay. Or somebody who’s judging me, you know, that’s the worst part. There’s judgment affiliated with it. 

Jameela [00:28:53] Of course. Of course. There’s I mean, the judgment affiliated with everything to be to do with being a woman. Speaking of which, this is a podcast predominantly about mental health. And you and I kind of touched on this when we had a pre-interview. How has your mental health been your whole life? 

Erin [00:29:12] Oh, depressive like I, I, I didn’t have the words for it when I was a teenager. So I just listened to the music that could do that for me, you know? 

Jameela [00:29:24] Alanis. 

Erin [00:29:25] Oh. Alanis. A lot of Rage songs mixed with shoegazer music. I mean, we’re talking, you know, Suzy Sue and we’re talking like Kate Bush. We’re talking all the Cure, all the Cure that anyone could handle. I had it. And I think when I got into when I moved away from Texas, there’s also a really weird thing in my family and my family’s Irish Catholic. You do not talk about how you feel. And you do not tell someone. I really. I really think you need some help with this. That’s like an insult. 

Jameela [00:30:04] I didn’t know you were English, I mean that is it’s the Irish. It’s nearby. 

Erin [00:30:09] Yeah, it’s. It’s strong in my family, which is like dark, dark sense of humor. Don’t do don’t do real emotions. We can talk about the fucked up things that happened in the family, but you could do it within a joke. 

Jameela [00:30:24] Yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it. 

Erin [00:30:26] Lots of alcoholism. Classic.

Jameela [00:30:27] So is it like yeah, sure. Is it so would you say it’s actually like clinical depression or is it because being a woman is shit like, are you. 

Erin [00:30:39] Yes. 

Jameela [00:30:39] Because I. But it’s like, try to unpack the things that I am pathologized with. And I’m pro pathology and I’m pro medication, I’m pro treatment, I’m pro all of those things, all of them have saved my life. But I am starting to, as I’m getting older, just trying to make sure that I stay on course with recognizing what is like a pathological issue and what is actually just me not honoring or being honored in my need for comfort. Right. And so a lot of it has been like working out, oh, I’m not actually an anxious person. I am made anxious by the positions I put myself into, other people put me into. And I don’t think I am a depressive person as much as the world is very sad, especially if you are socialized as a woman. And so it might be a bit of both. But whenever I feel free of it, I feel absolutely elated and like fairly stable and normal. And so I’ll still take the meds because I fucking need them because I can’t get off this earth. I mean that in a positive way, sort of. But I just I just wonder, is it because of life or is it a like a a clinical thing? 

Erin [00:31:53] Well, I mean, mine was definitely. Well, I have to say, it’s probably life because I was it’s hard to for me to I don’t know how to parse it out and here’s why. I’ve been on Prozac once and I was put on it immediately by a doctor in Houston who talked to me for 10 minutes. So it removed. 

Jameela [00:32:13] Had you gone to him for, like a broken toe and he gave you Prozac? 

Erin [00:32:18] Well, I’ll tell you, I was I wasn’t attracted to my boyfriend anymore, and I thought there was something wrong with me. Now, hot tip. We. We we should have broke up. But I was like, no, this person’s a great person. I should be attracted to them, but I’m not. So I went to this therapist. This is in college and. Also the idea that I was like, I’m a college person, I should want to fuck all the time. And I didn’t and I so I thought there was something chemically wrong with me. So so this doctor put me on Prozac, a very high dosage. And I, I remember I used to make sandwiches for this guy who lived off of campus who was unhoused. I made sandwiches for him every week, and I stopped when I was on Prozac. It made it took away the way that I felt about and took away my compassion. I’m not anti meds at all. I’m not anti meds. I got I had a bad experience with them once and it didn’t really help my depression. It just sent me into, like, a zombie mode. 

Jameela [00:33:22] Really fucked fucked over the guy who needed the sandwiches, really. 

Erin [00:33:26] I was like, Oh, he’ll be ok. 

Jameela [00:33:28] Yeah, yeah. My brother and I once did that for an unhoused man for several years, and then it was cheese sandwiches he wanted. He would come and climb our gate and then we would run down and give him cheese sandwiches, my brother, especially because he’s a bit older than me. So I wasn’t allowed to go downstairs late at night if it was too late. And one day he came to us and he was like, My shelter is being moved somewhere else, and so can you help me move all of my stuff? And we were like. Sure. And we went to his to his little shelter to find to get all of his belongings. There’s this one really fucking heavy bag. And we were like, fuck what is in this heavy bag. So we looked inside and there was two years of cheese sandwiches and we were like, What the fuck? What the fuck is this? And he was like, Well, I’m just more of a pate man really. Which is absolutely amazing. 

Erin [00:34:31] But he saved them. 

Jameela [00:34:32] He saved them because he’s still like a it was so sad and sweet that he didn’t just say, actually, I’d like chopped liver sandwiches, which we totally would have done, even though they were more expensive. He didn’t want to be greedy, but he was just doing it for the fucking company. Anyway. It’s just such a, like, funny, sweet, sad moment. He got paté sandwiches for years after that. Don’t worry. 

Erin [00:34:55] We switched it out. 

Jameela [00:34:55] Yeah. 

Erin [00:34:57] But I had a therapist in L.A. who was wonderful, and she was. I had her for ten years, and she really helped me. I mean, I used to when I first moved to L.A., I used to cry in traffic. 

Jameela [00:35:09] Doesn’t everybody cry in traffic? I feel like when I look around, everyone’s either picking their nose crying or trying to eat a full bowl of very milky cereal, which just feels lik a game show. It’s crazy. People are ridiculous in Los Angeles. Sorry. Go on. 

Erin [00:35:26] Oh, yeah. Well, because you live in your car. Because you’re there for all day long. Yeah, I just. It was more like I would like back out of a parking I remember I was backing out of a parking spot at a mailbox store, and someone honked at me, and I just burst into tears. I just. I was like, I couldn’t handle anything. And it and so she helped me through. It was all talk therapy. And she was like, I will send you to a psychiatrist if you think you need meds. Cause she was like, I’m very pro, like, combining the approaches. 

Jameela [00:36:01] Sure. 

Erin [00:36:02] But I didn’t, I didn’t ever get I was like, okay, I’m glad that’s here for me, but I never got there. So that makes me think that it’s actually not chemical with me and it’s more situational. 

Jameela [00:36:16] Circumstantial. Yeah. Yeah. 

Erin [00:36:18] I’ve never been happier in my life than right now. It’s so upsetting that the world ending because I like I’ve never been happier and I feel super. 

Jameela [00:36:26] I mean, you’re kind of ready to go, doesn’t it? You’ve done it.

Erin [00:36:28] To die? 

Jameela [00:36:30] Yeah. 

Erin [00:36:31] I’ve done it all. 

Jameela [00:36:32] How did you how’d you do it? Because if you’ve if you’ve had so much sadness and from, you know, reading your work and watching all of your stuff, there’s been a fair amount of shit that you’ve gone through. And. And so what have you had to overcome and how the fuck have you done it? Tell us.  

Erin [00:36:54] I don’t know. I just. I haven’t really. My. My friend calls me the Terminator because literally something tragic will happen, and I’ll be like, right back up. I don’t necessarily think that’s healthy, but I don’t, listen overall, I have general hope in people. I hope that there’s good people around. Mister Rogers has there’s this the video of him testifying at Congress when they were about to pull the PBS funding in the eighties and he was saying how scary it was. But the one of the things he said was and this is basically about tragedy and how he helps children on his show. But he was like whenever there is something disastrous that goes on, I always tell children to look for the helpers. Don’t focus necessary I mean, yes, there’s something terrible going on, but look for the helpers. And so that’s what I try to do when shit’s going wrong. Like I try, I accept the negative and I and I and I go, okay, some of the stuff is going to be outside of my control to, to, to deal with some of it’s within my control to deal with. Here’s my action items. Here’s a plan. And also who is around me in this scenario? Who’s making things better or helping? That always gives me hope. And so regardless. It doesn’t matter how tragic things get. There’s always people around who are just. Heroes. And in life, and just existing. 

Jameela [00:38:24] Yeah I think we’re taught always to be our own hero and to also be everyone else’s. And we’re never really taught women, especially to we’re always told we’re so weak and we need a hero, but we’re never actually told we’re entitled to one and allowed to look for one ourselves. Do you know what I mean? Everyone says that, yeah, you are weak and pathetic. You can’t do it on your own. But then no one, there are no real resources and no, there’s no encouragement to reach out and ask someone for help. It’s like we really are just supposed to do it all, which is really intense. Can I ask what some of the things that you’ve had to go through that you would say contributed to your depression were? Do you feel comfortable sharing? 

Erin [00:39:06] Yes of course. My. Oh, so a lot of poverty. Quite a bit of poverty. My dad. My dad was was kind of a lost person. He’s very smart and very artistic and kind of got pulled in ways in life that he wasn’t what he wanted. So he was in theater school and he got drafted in to Vietnam and. He was made to do so by his stepdad, who was the head of the Ohio RNC, because he wanted to have a son and in military service. But my dad didn’t want to do it, but my dad did it. And my dad came back with the Purple Heart and did a lot of incredible things that he never talked about. So I was raised by a war veteran with undiagnosed PTSD. Massive rage problems, uncontrollable and unpredictable rage, and a mother who was 17 years younger than him. She was 17 when they got married. So she was a teenage mom. So I and my dad, looking back like my dad was a boomer and so was my mom, even though that’s not her generation, because she was a kid when they got married. And she just emulated my dad. So I had two people who are rageaholics. Totally I mean, I mean not to. I’m not going to, like, armchair diagnose, but like sweet, mean, sweet, mean. And you never knew which one was coming and you never knew where you stood. And so I am an expert diffuser of situations because that was I was trained by two people who were erratic and there was no there’s no safety in that and there was no calmness. I did not grow up with any calm moments. And so one of the things that I really in my thirties, I was like, I have to have a calmness. I have to have time to myself that’s not invaded by other people. That’s just for me because I got to catch up on lost time, you know, and have my own thoughts and not feel like they’re going to be invaded or I’m going to have someone like. Come in my room and blame me for something that I didn’t even know was wrong to do. You know, you just never knew it was. The rules were constantly changing. However, it did make me very well equipped for the world because I feel like as a woman it’s the same thing. It’s like, you know, if you’re too loud at work or you’re too, you joke around too much at work, or you exhibit behaviors that are not like what they deem acceptable for a woman. Those rules like kind of show themselves. And so I was raised in a way to like, be like anything’s on the table at any time and you never know what’s up. 

Jameela [00:41:57] You’re a professional, you’re a professional thin ice skater is what you’re saying. 

Erin [00:42:00] Absolutely. Yes. I’m an eggshell tap dancer. 

Jameela [00:42:04] That’s amazing. And awful and hideous. And I’m really sorry because nobody deserves that. And I think a lot of us can it resonates with a lot of us. 

Erin [00:42:12] You can turn that stuff into your superpower on some level. And I don’t mean anybody. No one should go through that shit ever should never go through that stuff. I would much rather have had like a really calm existence. But I’m able to handle stuff that a lot of people are like, I don’t know how you do it. And it doesn’t seem, it doesn’t seem like a insurmountable thing for me to take on. For example, my dad was very sick the last three years. He had throat cancer and he was living in Houston. 

Jameela [00:42:43] I’m sorry. 

Erin [00:42:43] And oh, thank you. He was he’s a very complicated dude. He’s living in Houston. And I was like, okay, you’re done managing your life. I’m managing your life now. And I moved him. I go, Where do you want to go? And he goes, Santa Fe. So I moved him to Santa Fe. I bought a compound. I put him there. He it was the it was so good for our relationship because we’d never been that close. But it was because I, like, took control and I was like, you’re not in charge anymore. And funny enough, removing his sense of responsibility for me actually allowed him to be a human being. He was crumbling. I saw in hindsight like he was crumbling under the pressure of taking care of a family and being a dad, which was something he didn’t want to fucking do. And he wasn’t good at. He wasn’t fucking good at it. But when I, I took care of him and I said, I’m going to. I’m paying for your housing. I’m taking care of your medical stuff. You can just exist now. He was a fucking delight. He was great. And we got to spend the last three years together because I just was like, We’re reinterpreting what our dynamic is and it’s not on your terms because you’re doing a bad job. 

Jameela [00:43:59] 100%. Do you have kids? 

Erin [00:44:02] No, I have a I don’t have kids. I don’t want children. I’ve never wanted children. I like children. 

Jameela [00:44:10] I don’t like children. Sorry. 

Erin [00:44:13] Have you ever. You’ve never met a child that charmed you? 

Jameela [00:44:16] Never. Not once. Not one. Not one single one. I’m so sorry to all of you. I know a lot of you have children. I’m sorry. I hate all of your children. But, you know, I’m sure they’re going to be amazing when they’re I love teenagers. Love a teenager, love an adult, afraid of children. 

Erin [00:44:33] When you see a four year old or a toddler dancing at a wedding, what’s your reaction. 

Jameela [00:44:43] Do you hear that, sort of a like a geese hiss, it’s a real problem. And I hate myself for it and my dog has inherited it. So now we both hate children. But he growls, whereas I growl internally and it’s. It’s not likable. It’s not a likable quality. But this is how I fucking feel. I think more people feel that way. I think more people feel that way than they admit to where they love their own child. But actually they’re not that fussed about other children. I’m just not into it. 

Erin [00:45:06] I know people who don’t like their own kids. 

Jameela [00:45:09] Fuck me. 

Erin [00:45:11] But I know someone who’s had twins. 

Jameela [00:45:15] That just makes this abortion shit worse. Go on. You know somebody who actually hates their twins?

Erin [00:45:19] She was like, Well, they did IVF and she was like, If you told me what it was going to be like, I would have gotten rid of one of them. But at least it’s honest. Listen, I don’t want kids because I know how much work they are. 

Jameela [00:45:33] I have a friend who’s a mother who has like this tab always open with flights to like one way ticket flights to random countries. And she’s just always checking the prices and just looking. 

Erin [00:45:47] I love her. 

Jameela [00:45:47] The likelihood is she’s never going to go, but that tab is always, always open just to give her that sense of relief that, you know what, I can just go to fucking Acapulco. I can just fuck off to Bora Bora right now. I could just do it. I could go buy some stuff from a high street store and just piss off. I mean, this is like,. 

Erin [00:46:08] It would be good for a week. 

Jameela [00:46:09] It’s real. 100%. 

Erin [00:46:13] One of the things that I always think about this, too, when I think about like. All the shitty stuff that’s happening in the world. My mom in the seventies couldn’t get a fucking credit card. She didn’t have credit. 

Jameela [00:46:27] Wild. I know. 

Erin [00:46:29] There’s stuff. There’s so much. We’ve made so much progress. And one of the great things is that, like, now, as. As people who can reproduce, we can ask ourselves, is this what I want? I don’t think that was the case 20 years ago, it was you were kind of demonized if you didn’t if you didn’t have kids. Or someone thought, there’s something wrong with you. 

Jameela [00:46:52] No now it’s now it’s completely normalized. But, you know, hearing about your dad who didn’t want any responsibilities, who didn’t really, you know, thrive in being a father. And I can definitely speak to my own family members as to who was and wasn’t appropriate to procreate like this shit brings me back to what we started this conversation about just forcing individuals into the biggest and hardest situation in the world. Thank you today for just in this moment, having this conversation with me and just treading the waters of of how we feel, how intense this is. But how how how possible a solution is is. 

Erin [00:47:43] Don’t lose hope. 

Jameela [00:47:43] No. Don’t lose hope. I’m not going to lose hope. You’re going to lose hope. 

Erin [00:47:48] It’s all in our phones. No, I’m I’m. I’m a pessimist who’s opt optimistic about humanity. 

Jameela [00:47:57] Yeah, I always say high hopes, low expectations, but I’m actually forcing myself to have higher expectations now. Otherwise, I’m not going to fight hard enough. We can do this. We have time. We have until the next election, correct. Before the Supreme Court. 

Erin [00:48:14] June is when they will release their official statement. What that will do is it will allow states who already have restrictive abortion rights on the books to continue with that. And there will be no legal avenue to challenge that because the Supreme Court has read their precedent. 

Jameela [00:48:30] What can we do? 

Erin [00:48:31] Well, okay. For example, California’s doing this, but they need it. It needs to be in the state constitution that abortion is a right and a medical privacy. 

Jameela [00:48:41] Written into code. 

Erin [00:48:42] It needs to be in the Constitution. Do not settle for like, for example, New Mexico just does the thing where they’re like, okay, we had all these antiquated books, things on the book where we’re not going to prosecute anybody if you get an abortion. But we had all these books that said we could, so we removed all those. But what they didn’t do was, was put it in the fucking Constitution. So you need to let your reps know that you want that, that you want your rights written in the Constitution. Because this is the exact problem that we’re having with our federal Constitution is that we’re not even fucking mentioned in the goddamn thing. So, like, you need to exist in the states legislature and you need to be seen because you’re being represented by these people. And so like, and you’re paying taxes and you’re doing all this stuff, you deserve to be in writing in the state laws explicitly. This is your right. 

Jameela [00:49:33] So what is it that made? Because I’d read things that had made me feel as though we have more time than this before this becomes official. 

Erin [00:49:42] All they’re ruling on is a certain case. So it will only affect the states that already are trying to erase abortion rights. It won’t affect blue states that are, you know, only it’s only going to embolden the people who want to do the bad thing. Yeah. 

Jameela [00:49:59] What can what changes at the election at the point of the next election 

Erin [00:50:03] If you vote people into power in your state government that then protect the right to abortion and we have senators and representatives at the federal level who are going to pass laws like the ERA, the Equal Rights Act, which would allow us to have a set of rights codified in our federal documents. Like we have to replace the people doing the bad shit with people who are going to not only reverse that stuff, but make it in stone. You can’t do this shit again because this right is protected. 

Jameela [00:50:39] Kamala Harris was recently talking about the fact that the Senate failed to write it into code. It was lodged against. And so this means we have to replace and shake up our Senate. 

Erin [00:50:49] We also have two Democrats who are in federal government who vote like Republicans. They’re not they’re not Democrats. They ran on Democratic platform, but they’re not Democrats. So we don’t actually have a Democratic majority in the in the Senate right now. It’s fake. 

Jameela [00:51:06] It’s wild. It’s wild. 

Erin [00:51:08] So fixing that. 

Jameela [00:51:09] Can I ask you, as someone who has, like, a deep kind of, as you said, like a granular understanding of the system, the fuck do we do? What are we going to do? Because I, as an English person, would like to I’d like to know, like, what happens next? How long do we have to fight this? Do you know the answer to this? 

Erin [00:51:28] I think I have a place to start which is locally. So making sure that you’re. So the trajectory of most politicians starts with school boards. And so people run for school boards and then they kind of work their way up the political ladder. 

Jameela [00:51:43] Now, that’s interesting, I didn’t know that. 

Erin [00:51:44] Seeing if you don’t have kids, which is totally fine, you should still see who’s on the school board because that’s kind of the formula for how we do it here in America. And then making sure that if you personally don’t want to run for office, that you find some political crush, that you’re like, this person is doing everything right and I’m going to put all my energy behind this person. 

Jameela [00:52:06] By the way, it’s also very difficult to find someone who’s doing everything right and. 

Erin [00:52:11] Oh, right, sorry. Not to get too perfectionist. Yes, yes. 

Jameela [00:52:14] Oh, yeah, but no. But also the moral purity of the left is what’s holding us back and allowing the right to absolutely demolish us. There is a moment where we have to be realistic that the perfect savior who has all of the right, perfect values is not is not coming along anytime soon. And so we also have to figure out what we can stomach that doesn’t take away they might not be perfect on socialism or something, but at least they are pro everyone’s human rights. Or it could be a different thing, like just just trying to find people who have human rights at the core of their foundation, but also being willing to accept that sometimes we have to be strategic and we have to think smart and we have to go, okay, I don’t love that thing that they are. You know, maybe they’re not environmentally the best, but they’ll fight for these rights or this person is environmentally the best, but they don’t do enough of this. It’s about really figuring out what you can stomach. If you’re ready. 

Erin [00:53:13] Especially now. 

Jameela [00:53:13] Now rather than wait for that saint. 

Erin [00:53:15] Because there’s so much damage that’s been done. There’s so much damage to undo. We can’t be so rigid. And and also, it’s it’s hypocritical. It’s like politicians or people. No. None of us are perfect so let’s stop putting. 

Jameela [00:53:32] And people can turn around. Obama’s you know campaign he when he was running you know in the running to become president at first he said that he he believed that marriage should be between a man and a woman. And he was the one who ushered in equal marriage, equal rights to marriage for everyone. So what someone says they might be into might not this not necessarily be the thing they’re going to stick to. People can change. People are transient is definitely a risk. But as long as those risks aren’t so severe that you can’t live with them, be willing to be malleable if you can, because we’re fucking losing right now. There’s no two ways about it. 

Erin [00:54:11] I don’t love that politicians on the left feel like they have to do some kind of like respectability politics or like some of them talk so. They they don’t present as humans and I that I think is that needs to go by the way of the dodo bird, which is probably not a phrase I should say, because I’m sure the they don’t deserve it. 

Jameela [00:54:34] But that’s why that prick, you know, did so well is because he spoke the language of the people who New York and Los Angeles forget about literally forget about. There’s so much classism in the left there’s so much like if you can’t understand this rhetoric or they don’t care if they think about race or think about gender, they think about sometimes disability, although almost never. But we rarely hear the rich and poor. We we rarely hear about class and and poverty. That always seems to be a conversation that suddenly they back out of. So. It’s just it’s very, very tricky. 

Erin [00:55:11] It’s super tricky. But I think the. Despite all the problems, I think starting at a local level. I mean, you know, L.A. historically doesn’t turn out for mayoral elections. And that’s scary because we have a billionaire running for mayor and that person is. 

Jameela [00:55:29] Is Caruso. 

Erin [00:55:30] Yeah, check the fuck out of society. So it’s very scary. I’m very nervous about what’s going to happen. We have mail in ballots. There’s literally nothing standing in your way to turn out for the mayoral elections. And yet it’s like 2% turnout. It’s really, really low. 

Jameela [00:55:51] He’s also donating loads of money to take it like to charities who want to take away the reproductive rights of people in California like he’s he’s fully invested in all of the scariest shit he’s got the money to do it and he doesn’t need to rely on anyone else for that money because he can pay for it himself. 

Erin [00:56:13] It’s scary. And by the way, why. Why do you want to be mayor? Why don’t you just be a rich guy? We had Nithya Raman on our show, and she’s my councilmember in L.A. And, you know, she kind of broke down the city council thing. If we had a very liberal city council. It’s not that it doesn’t matter that Rick Caruso becomes mayor, but it will definitely dilute his impact. So making sure that you’re turning out for your city council elections like we have to participate. We have to participate on a local level because. That’s where politicians are formed. Not a lot of people jump right into federal government. 

Jameela [00:56:55] So we all need to pay attention. We all need to start educating ourselves. 

Erin [00:56:59] Yeah, California’s needs to get their shit together. We have a ton of problems. We’re not as liberal as we seem. We have a democratic majority government and we can’t put a dent in the problem with people being unhoused and mental health. We can’t even put a dent in it. We have an economy the size of France. Where is that money going? Like holding people accountable to and be like, I want this shit fixed because I voted for a tax increase. So that part of the sales tax to pay for the stuff. Where the fuck is it? 

Jameela [00:57:32] So this is look. This is daunting, right? If I’m a 16 year old listening to this episode right now, I’m like, with. 

Erin [00:57:38] You’re the future. 

Jameela [00:57:39] Where the fuck do I find out about. Yeah, but where the fuck do I find out about school board? Where the fuck do I find out about mayoral elections and and council staff? You know, like, where do I how do I how do how does that 16 year old mobilize themselves and their family at least to. 

Erin [00:57:55] Well, I follow PSA LA. 

Jameela [00:57:58] Okay.  

Erin [00:57:59] I follow all the demecratic socialist accounts. 

Jameela [00:58:02] What about nationwide is there is sort of like that version for every different state. 

Erin [00:58:07] I’m like a democratic socialist, hardcore, like that’s my Twitter feed, basically, of who I read and who I follow. And then they usually have recommendations for elections. Like a cheat sheet. And I just go in and I do my research based on who they say. And then if I’m like, I don’t really know if I agree with this person, then I see who else is running and then I go, Oh, actually this is the best person on this ticket. So I think there’s no I no one needs to feel like you have to research everything. There’s people out there doing the work. Find them and let them gi ve you information and then you do your own research. And but I don’t think it has to be like a full hitting the ground with no information there. There’s a lot of incredible organizations out there. And I think finding an organization that you align with, I mean, your local Black Lives Matter chapter, like they’re going to have recommendations. Any group that you identify really hard with, they’re going to have opinions about this stuff that are probably very well-informed. So as a jumping off point. 

Jameela [00:59:14] We can do it. If we look at my generation, the generation after that, generation after that. Look at how fucking well we researched celebrities. Look at the fuckin receipts we bring up in them. Look at how we go 12 years, 15 years into their original Tumblr from when they were a teenager. But we know how to use the fucking Internet and if we just apply any of the energy that we do on Tik Tok to getting deep into Amber Heard and Johnny Depp’s fuckin receipts. We have more than the capacity to find the truth and to find the resources and to find the information on these people, we just now need to more than ever redirect all of that energy towards no longer picking on each other, but looking for the people who are going who are going to have the have the power and the patience to acquire the sanity. And and humanity back into our society. 

Erin [01:00:12] Look for the helpers. I mean, yeah, that’s what it is. Seek them out. Also be like, I’m going to go get a mani/pedi today and I’m going to spend an hour on my phone looking up candidates. Like, do something you like while you do this, you know? I mean, it’s it’s daunting. It’s not it’s not exciting, but it’s necessary. So, like, I don’t know. 

Jameela [01:00:33] Well it’s more exciting than having a baby that you don’t want. How long did it take you to feel like you kind of got into the knowledge once you started? Like I stopped being as clueless when I was about 27, and it really took about a month of starting to get into the weeds of things before I realized this is actually not as complicated as it’s made out to be. It’s deliberately made to sound more complicated so that you won’t investigate it, because the more, the less we know and the more intimidating it’s made to sound, the easier we will be to control. Knowledge is power. And it has changed my life and made me feel safer to just understand what’s going on. It’s nowhere near as complicated as it sounds. 

Erin [01:01:19] No. And by the way, find somebody like my friend Ben Sheehan. He wrote a book breaking down the way that what the Constitution actually says in like layman’s terms. And he has an incredible TikTok where he explains everything that’s happening and why it’s happening. So he’s talking, you know. 

Jameela [01:01:39] Can you spell his name. 

Erin [01:01:40] Sheehan. His dad was in politics. He’s super smart. He talks like a normal he talks to you like you’re hanging out his friends. And it’s incredible. I mean. I’m lucky that I have friends who are so much smarter than me who can explain things. And I think that’s another thing is, you know, talking about the shame of not knowing, like, you shouldn’t be embarrassed to be like, I don’t know where to start. Can you help me? What should I know about this? Do you know? I don’t think that’s shameful at all. 

Jameela [01:02:12] I want to learn more. To me is like the coolest and sexiest sentence in the world. 

Erin [01:02:16] Absolutely. 

Jameela [01:02:17] Yeah. Other than Would you like a snack? Which is the sexiest and coolest sentence, in my opinion, in the world. Like my vagina just opens. Yeah. 

Erin [01:02:27] Full flooded basement. 

Jameela [01:02:29] It’s been so good to talk to you. I hope that this is made people feel galvanized, maybe a little bit hopeful. We can’t keep going like this. And so, Erin, thank you so much for coming on to this podcast. I can’t wait to talk to you again. 

Erin [01:02:46] Thanks for having me. 

Jameela [01:02:46] And I believe in us. 

Erin [01:02:49] Me too. 

Jameela [01:02:51] Good for us. Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela. Jamil is produced and research by myself, Jameela, Jamil, Erin Finnegan and Kimmie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carson. And the beautiful music you are hearing now is made by my boyfriend James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. We also have a bonus series exclusively on Stitcher Premium called Ask Jameela Anything. Check it out. You can get a free month to Stitcher premium by going Stitcher.com/premium and using the promo code I Weigh. Lastly over at I Weigh, we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. You can leave us a voicemail at 18186605543 or email us what you weigh at IWeighpodcast@gmail.com. And now we would love to pass the mic to one of our fabulous listeners. I weigh having the courage to end a ten year relationship that was no longer serving either of us. I weigh the fear of starting again, aged 43, and I balance that weight with the excitement of starting again aged 43. I weigh the things I’m finding out about myself, as I venture into therapy. I weigh the lessons of my past and the future I will build for myself.