May 19, 2022
Actor, disabilities activist, and Youtube influencer Lauren “Lolo” Spencer joins Jameela this week to discuss her diagnosis of ALS at a very young age, how the people she loved came around her in difficult times, fighting for “non-medical” acting roles, why she started her Youtube channel Sitting Pretty, the monetary issues that face disabled people, the challenges of dating, what she hopes to see change in the world for disabled people, and more.
You can find transcripts for this episode here: https://www.earwolf.com/show/i-weigh-with-jameela-jamil/
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111 — Lauren “Lolo” Spencer
Jameela [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to another episode of I Weigh with Jameela Jamil, a podcast that wants shame to die. I hope you’re well. I’m alright. I think I’m starting to. I’m either in shock as to how bad things are in the world or I’m starting to process it all and starting to breathe again and recognize that it’s it might actually be okay. And we still do have time to turn many things around. And I’m just trying to deep breathe my way through it. I have also been reunited with my dog in the last couple of days since my last slightly frenetic intro for this podcast. And so that’s probably also helped and calmed me down massively because I hadn’t seen him for ten fucking weeks. And so that’s been great. If you haven’t seen my dog, head on to my Instagram and look at my highlight called Barreled for truly the best part of your day. I know everyone says that, but my dog really is barking fantastic. Anyway, so I’m I’m starting to get ready for the fight ahead. I think that’s the mode I’m in. I’m in the calm before the storm. And I hope I hope you’re feeling similar or nearly there. And I hope that you’re okay. And I think about you a lot. And I wonder how you’re all doing, because it’s really easy to feel powerless. But we aren’t powerless. We are. We are actually the ones who have all of the power in our hands. We’re just never told that so that we don’t use it. And now it’s time to know it. To use it and to win. Today’s episode is so good and so important and inspiring and funny and silly and deep and all of the things that one could hope for of a podcast episode. My guest is Lauren Lolo Spencer and she is an extraordinary activist, a disability activist in particular, a lifestyle influencer, an actress, a model, a public speaker and a content creator. She has this amazing YouTube channel called Sitting Pretty that shows a very realistic and uplifting and fun and warts and all side of of disability and living with one and how it doesn’t have to impede your your happiness or your freedom or your sex life. She’s just incredibly open and cool and we just never see enough of this sort of content in the world. She’s also I mean, she’s a Spirit Award nominee alongside people like J.Lo and Octavia Spencer and an extraordinary actress who’s taking on really meaty and interesting and cool and different roles, unlike the ones normally not even offered to people with disabilities, normally you get a non-disabled actor to play those parts and then they win an Oscar. But Lauren is changing all of that. She’s also in the Sex Life of College Girls, Mindy Kaling’s show, and that’s just been renewed for a second season. She’s a fabulous part of that show. So just find her. She goes by Lolo Spencer and she’s the best and she’s so special and I think she’s going to be around for a really long time as a mainstay presence in this industry. Just so fun. I loved this chat so much. I could have gone on for hours and I’m genuinely. Sometimes in this podcast I actually make friends with people right in front of you, and I actually go on to become friends with them afterwards. It’s happened with several guests now. And I think I think Lauren Lolo Spencer is going to be one of them. She’s just a breath of fresh air and her voice is so important. And I want you to listen to this episode. Even if you do not have a disability, even if you don’t know anyone who’s had a disability, even if you’ve never met anyone who has one. You never know what can happen in life. And it’s good to be prepared. And it’s also just good to understand your neighbor. It makes you so much less afraid. So much of discrimination comes from fear of the unknown, so don’t allow it to be unknown anymore. Listen to episodes like this. Follow people like her. Watch the content. Understand. And start to recognize that these differences are not as valid as we think they are. They’re not important enough to create this divide that we have between disabled and non-disabled people. This awkwardness isn’t necessary. And I say this as someone who has been visibly disabled and then invisibly disabled and then not at all disabled. I’ve been all I’ve been all the things and I’m still the same person throughout the same thread of my humanity runs through all of those different versions of me. And so I hope you enjoy this chat. I loved it. It’s it’s very bold. And there’s nowhere that we don’t go. It goes everywhere, from advocacy to sex to yeast infections to to growing up in school and our changing society to the health care system. We cover everything. And so message me afterwards, message Lauren Lolo Spencer and tell her how you feel about her extraordinary work. Just get involved and i send you lots of love and I hope you enjoy it. It’s just the fun, mostly lighthearted content I think maybe we need in the world right now. So enjoy. This is the excellent Lauren Lolo Spencer. Lauren Lolo Spencer, welcome to I Weigh. How are you?
Lolo [00:05:40] Good. How are you?
Jameela [00:05:42] I’m so good. I’m so glad we are finally getting a chance to do this. I have been a big fan of yours for such a long time. You are so busy at the moment and you have so much going on and I want to just dive right into all of it. But. One of the reasons that I am so in love with you and inspired by you is because, aside from the astonishing career you have, you are an incredible advocate for people with disabilities. And you as as I said to you, you know, every time I’ve pretty much spoken to you that it’s your the thoughtful way that you approach representation for people with disabilities that really is so needed and so necessary. And something that, you know, me, when I was in a wheelchair as a teenager, I really could have done with you. I really, really. I really needed someone like you to show me that I wasn’t broken and that I wasn’t now going to live a solitary life of no fun. The the side of your life that you have shown on your YouTube channel, on your social media, has shown that it really is just a it’s it’s it’s a comma not a full stop, if that makes sense.
Lolo [00:06:53] Yes absolutely.
Jameela [00:06:54] As in like a period that it’s just like it’s a part of you. It doesn’t define you. It isn’t the end of your story. And I think that that’s really fucking important. And I kind of want to get into that first and foremost as to, first of all, what your journey has been with your body and how you arrived at the place of wanting to make sure that young people see an authentic and hopeful side of a diagnosis like yours. So you were 14, right?
Lolo [00:07:21] Yeah, I was 14 when I was originally diagnosed with ALS. I mean, since then, child, who knows what the hell is going on with my body right now. But at that time, you know, I was diagnosed with something that I had never heard of, that I had no history of understanding. I had no idea what any of this was. Neither did my family. Neither did any of my friends. It was a little confusing in the sense of, okay, they’re telling me this is what is happening with my body, but I still don’t have like a full understanding of what this all means. Where did this come from? What did I do? How did this even come about? And I never got answers for that. So I was kind of in a very unique position where I could kind of create my own narrative around what it meant to have my particular diagnosis. Because the only thing that I was ever told was that your body will get weaker over time. And that more than likely it is going to be the reason why, you know, you transition into the next realm.
Jameela [00:08:38] And just to be clear, you were told at 14 that you had like 5 to 7 years, right. To live.
Lolo [00:08:43] Exactly. Exactly. And then even when I did my own research online and I saw it for myself, because even being told that I was like, that doesn’t make sense. I’m a teenager. I don’t know what the fuck is really going on. So when I looked it up online-
Jameela [00:08:58] That’s a fucking insane thing to tell a teenager.
Lolo [00:09:02] Exactly like and especially when like you have no concept of what any of this means and the people that you would look to like family, friends, adults, they don’t know either. So we’re all kind of just winging what all of this means.
Jameela [00:09:18] Well, a lot of people aren’t going to know necessarily what ALS is. So I would love it if you could explain it to everyone.
Lolo [00:09:25] Yes. So ALS is an acronym that fully is amniotrophic lateral sclerosis. And essentially what it is, it is it is a disease that affects the nerves in your spinal cord. So your spinal cord, it sends messages to your brain to tell your body to move right? ALS attacks those messages so the brain doesn’t get the message to tell certain parts of your body to move. So over time, you lose muscle mass and muscle strength all over your body, like there is no kind of muscle that is exempt from it. So it just but it’s a very fast disease is what they always say. Like as soon as someone is diagnosed with it, the average lifespan is 5 to 7 years upon diagnosis, and it’s more commonly in people who are 40 years old and up. So me being diagnosed at 14 was like this huge anomaly of how did this girl get this? Where? What is the cause? What can be the cure? Then they tell you there is no cause. There is no cure. Kind of like good luck, you know? And so my family and I were just kind of left figuring it out. And so that’s why I kind of say it’s like I had the unique perspective to be able to use the power of the mind to say, No, this is the life I’m going to live instead. Like I’m hearing what doctors and professionals are telling me, where everything in me, in my spirit, in my mind, my family, the way they treat me. None of us felt like it was real, so we never treated it as if it was real, if that makes sense, it. It really was something that we just knew that my life was going to be longer than the 5 to 7 years and that I was going to make the life that I wanted based on my dreams and aspirations as a teenager.
Jameela [00:11:37] And how many years beyond five have you now made it? Please tell everyone.
Lolo [00:11:45] 20 years going on. 21.
Jameela [00:11:49] Hurray! And I mean from where. I’m standing anyway, you. You seem to be fighting fit. You seem to be well. You are working crazy hours as an actress, as a model, as an influencer. You are very, very active. You look fucking delicious, frankly. You look great. You look healthy. You look happy. You also look 12.
Lolo [00:12:15] I am.
Jameela [00:12:17] So I can’t believe you’re the same age as me, but I. I have. Okay. I have a lot of complicated feelings. First of all, there is now like talk, considering the fact that you have lived so long and you were diagnosed as such a ridiculously young age, that potentially it’s not ALS, even though they think it might be ALS, there’s suddenly this question mark over your diagnosis, right?
Lolo [00:12:37] Yeah.
Jameela [00:12:37] So that makes me. That really disturbs me because they they told you at 14, they gave you a death sentence at 14. That may have also been the wrong fucking diagnosis and run the risk of destroying the remaining years of your life, which has now gone on to so far be 20 may be another 40, 60, 80 years. And you could have plunged into a depression. You could have done what some people do and try to control your own death. Do you know what I mean? That this the the medical recklessness and negligence and you know, I don’t know your doctor. I have no idea. But I cannot help but and I’m not trying to make this a race issue. But you must be the 100th black person in America to tell me they’ve been given a questionable diagnosis that I’ve met so far.
Lolo [00:13:29] Yeah. Yeah.
Jameela [00:13:30] So how did you find the care you were given at the time? Because, I mean, you mentioned that they were just like, well, good luck that you’ve got five years to live, child. Good luck.
Lolo [00:13:39] Yeah. Yeah. You know, I will say the the best we knew what to do when I say we, I mean me and my family. The best we knew what to do was. A little bit of what the doctor said, but also what we wanted to do in the process. Right. So the doctors would tell us, okay, every six months we had to go to the offices and I would have to do all these different exercises and see no bullshit a minimum of like 6 to 10 doctors every time I went in one day. So I’m sitting there from like 8 a.m. to damn near 8 p.m. in a doctor’s office, just seeing just a rotating number of doctors. I think for us what what ended up being a little frustrating but did lend itself a level of hope was that every doctor that would see me would be like, wow, you’re doing really well. Wow. You’re you’re actually way better than I expected you to be by this time. Wow. And it was all of this amazement at how well I was doing. Yet there was no one that was like. Are we sure we got this right? And because my family and I, again, we don’t know nothing, we’re just kind of going along with the flow. We didn’t even think to question it either because it took a year and some change going from doctor to doctor all over Northern California, because that’s where I lived at the time. That’s where I’m from all over Northern California for us to even get this diagnosis. So even the concept that I may have been misdiagnosed wasn’t even a thought that crossed anyone’s mind because we’re like, we saw 30 doctors up until this point. They had to have gotten it right by now. But when they would say that, we would always be like. Maybe I’m just doing a good job, you know. And so it was it was that. And then as far as like care at home, my mom and my family, nobody switched up on me, which was such a blessing. Everyone just treated me exactly the same. Yes, there were changes in my body. So there were certain little things of like, oh, my sister had to help me with maybe getting dressed with certain types of clothes. My mom had to help like make my plate for dinner instead so I didn’t have to lift anything. I was able to get some accommodations at my high school as well. You know, as far as being able to get to class a little later, because in high school I was only using leg braces, I hadn’t started even using a wheelchair yet. I didn’t start using a wheelchair until I went to college at 19. And so I was able to get all of these accommodations. But it was always from the perspective of let’s help Lauren with what she needs versus giving her what she needs because she only has 5 to 7 years, if that makes sense. Like, it was like, no, we’re going to just keep everything neutral. Everything’s going to be fine. Everything’s going to be good. And we’re just going to take it day by day. But what we’re not going to do is speak negatively. Well, we’re not going to do is speak anything else into existence. That has not been proven to be right or wrong. We’re just going to go along with the flow, stay positive, whatever Lauren wants to do. She wants to go football game. We’re going to take her to the football game. She wants to go to the dances. She’s going to go to the dances. And that’s the kind of foundation that I had at that time. We were just kind of like winging it with positivity.
Jameela [00:17:35] I love that. I love hearing that. I think that’s really beautiful and I’m really glad that your family did such a good job on doing. I don’t think a kid should ever be told, even if your parents were told, which is traumatic enough. I can’t believe you were told that. That is so fucking fucked. I thought that I’m mad. I’m so mad about it. Okay, so can you talk me through? So you were just. You felt fine until you were sort of like, what, 12 and a half, 13 years old, and then your health started to decline in some way. And that’s what led you to the diagnosis.
Lolo [00:18:07] Yeah. So the interesting part is the only memory I have is one I my mom told us to make me and my siblings to go make our place for dinner and our plates were in a high cabinet. And so with my right arm, which is still the arm that is significantly more limp than my left arm, I reached up in the in the cabinet with my right arm, which is the arm that is more significantly limp than my left arm. And I grabbed it with my right arm and my whole arm dropped to the counter. And it was weird because the plate didn’t drop out of my hand, but I felt my entire arm drop. And so I was a little confused, but I was like, I don’t know, maybe this is just maybe I’m just tired today. I don’t know. Like, I just had no concept. But after I talked to my mom about it recently, actually just a few months ago, I was like, Mom, you know, what triggered you? For for you to start taking me to the doctor about this? She said one day you came home from school and you told me, Mom, for some reason, I can’t jump as high as I used to. And I don’t know what’s going on. And so my mom was like, okay, well then let’s go to the doctor and find out what’s going on. And then that is started the year and some change journey until we got the diagnosis of ALS.
Jameela [00:19:46] And so then you get the diagnosis. Your family handle it like champs, and you handle it like a champ. What about kids at school? Did you notice a kind of difference there?
Lolo [00:19:56] So interestingly enough, there was no difference of the kids at my school. And I think a big part of that was because my attitude didn’t change. When I went to school, I had the best counselor in the world and he was just like, Lauren, what is it that you need? Because at first, you know, they did suggest like, oh, well, because now you have a disability, you should be taking the you should be on this wing of the school where other kids with disabilities are. And for me, I was like, no, I want to be where my friends are. My friends aren’t over there, my friends are over here. Again, having no real concept of disability or disability culture. And so they were like, okay, well, if you want to go in these classes, then we’ll have to give you a different desk. We’re going to have to switch your locker. You’ll get an excuse to, you know, get your classes later and everything else. So I think because I still was me and I didn’t feel bad, I didn’t feel sad about what was happening. And I think a big part of that was still just a young teenage brain, not really grasping the severity of what the doctors are telling me or what I looked up online. I was able to just keep the same energy and so no one switched up on me. Everyone was actually really excited the very first time I used a wheelchair. Like, they were like, Oh, shit, now we can roll around everywhere. Oh, it’s on now. Like, everyone was more excited.
Jameela [00:21:33] I love this.
Lolo [00:21:34] It was. It was such a a polar opposite experience of a lot of other people with disabilities who were either diagnosed at young ages or were born with their disability and what their experiences were. And I think that’s why, for me, it’s so important to share the fun, exciting side of disability lifestyle to help those kids who aren’t who didn’t have the same support group of friends as I did at that age, and hopefully other people who are non-disabled right now, they can see like, Oh, I can treat my friend at school just like I treat my other friends, you know? So. So I think that’s like what is important because I know that having that experience of such a support group of family and friends is what made all the difference in my life and where I’m at now.
Jameela [00:22:33] I mean, it’s one of the main reasons I want to be on the podcast, of course, to make sure that we we have the representation representation of a disabled person, but mostly because you just never know when disability may come to you, when it may come to someone you love, someone you work with. And it’s so much better to be prepared with understanding what a ginormous difference it makes to someone’s entire future.
Lolo [00:22:57] Yeah.
Jameela [00:22:58] If you just take the time and care to educate yourself and not treat them as though they’re different.
Lolo [00:23:04] Exactly.
Jameela [00:23:05] Because they’re not it’s the same fuckin it’s the same fuckin person. You know, it’s like I say this all the time, like when I was when I was in the wheelchair, when I’m not in the wheelchair, like the difference in the way that I was treated by the world and has never, ever been able to make any sense to me because I’m the same exact girl, same personality, same words, same thoughts. Still bad at Twitter, you know? Like it’s just.
Lolo [00:23:35] So my stylist, who’s a great friend of mine and a mentor, Stephanie Thomas, she specializes in dressing people with disabilities. And what she always says, too, is that one of the reasons people are so scared and awkward about disability is because disability reminds people of their demise. So when people who are non-disabled see disabled people based on the conditioning of the world, disability equals death. So when they see us, they think about, Oh, my life will end if I look like that, or I only have so long to live if I lived like that. And so no one wants to look at us because they don’t want to be reminded of death. Whether that’s death of their personality. Death of their social life. Death of their dating life. Death in general. Like no one wants to know what the end could possibly look like. And unfortunately, disability has always been the poster child of the end of your life. Or the post-
Jameela [00:24:51] Massively exacerbated by Hollywood.
Lolo [00:24:54] Exactly that.
Jameela [00:24:55] Almost all of the fucking films are always the disabled person is the sad sob story arc for the non-disabled person who’s maybe fallen in love with them who cares for them. And then that person almost invariably dies. And also, when we meet them, they’re always like bitter and angry, and then they become softer and then they die.
Lolo [00:25:16] Yeah exactly.
Jameela [00:25:18] That I that’s the story I grew up seeing. That’s the story I thought my life was going to be. The story all my friend, friends with disability thought that their lives were going to be. That’s all we see. Like it’s a it’s a tool of tragedy to showcase another actor’s performance.
Lolo [00:25:34] Yeah.
Jameela [00:25:35] Often, obviously, with the non-disabled with a non-disabled actor playing the person with a disability and then they win an Academy Award because it was so amazing for them to be able to channel that from no experience whatsoever, it’s is extremely stressful.
Lolo [00:25:48] Extremely.
Jameela [00:25:50] But you’re here to change you’re here to change the fucking script.
Lolo [00:25:52] Oh, yeah. Big, big time. Oh.
Jameela [00:25:55] Yeah.
Lolo [00:25:56] People have no idea. People have no idea what goes on in this brain.
Jameela [00:26:02] I mean, the roles that you are doing. I mean, you were just nominated for a Spirit Award alongside J-Lo and a bunch of my favorite wasn’t Octavia Spencer one of the nominees? Is just you’re fucking killing it and you’re taking roles that are incredibly empowering. The Sex Lives of College Girls. You are so cool and inspiring in that show and I’m so glad that you’ve been picked up for a second season. But the the the work you take, I, I gather, is very consciously in line with the way you would like people with disabilities to be showed more often.
Lolo [00:26:40] Oh, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Everything that I’ve chosen any anything like that has always been about the storyline. Right. I’ve had to tell my agents at a certain point like, stop sending me medical based roles. I want to be a human. I want to be a person. I want to be a character. I want to have a vibe. I want to have an energy. I want to have a personality. Even if that personality.
Jameela [00:27:10] Style.
Lolo [00:27:10] Style like even if that personality if I even was the villain, then let it be about me being pissed because somebody did something versus me being mad that I have a disability. And so I’m mad at everyone else. So I am very, very, very strategic about that. I think the.
Jameela [00:27:31] Did you get sent a lot of stuff like that?
Lolo [00:27:32] Oh, yeah. Not the villain role, the medical roles. It’s always-
Jameela [00:27:37] Oh no you can never be the villain that would that would that would require being like empowered and powerful and.
Lolo [00:27:41] Exactly and a bad ass.
Jameela [00:27:42] We like to give villains mental health stigma. That’s what we like to increase with villains that they they have a mental health issue.
Lolo [00:27:50] Exactly exactly.
Jameela [00:27:52] That’s how we do.
Lolo [00:27:53] Exactly that. Exactly that. But no, I was getting but see then there’s also those roles that I would get that were over the top. Trying to prove that it wasn’t about the disability to where it was like unrealistic right to where. It was like, I remember getting this one role and.
Jameela [00:28:15] An acrobat.
Lolo [00:28:16] Something like it though something very like it to where it would like. But even personality wise it was like, Oh, I’m not mad that I have a disability, I’m a bad ass and I’m this and I’m that. But like the dialogue was literally that was like, you don’t even got to say all this. Like, why can’t our line just be like, I’m confident in who I am, but you know what I mean? So it’s like even some of the dialogue lends itself to attempt to not be about the disability, but it’s like it’s clear that you’re still using the disability as a crux to not let the disability win, if that makes sense.
Jameela [00:28:56] So yeah, it’s like, yeah, and it still makes the disability your story.
Lolo [00:28:59] Still makes the disability your story and then you have all of these.
Jameela [00:29:02] Yeah, I mean, they still do it to like character racial people from racial backgrounds. We still do it to fat people like what’s the. And it also, you know, like just thinking back for a second to what you were saying earlier about, you know, why people feel uncomfortable looking at people with disabilities. I think it’s just, again, we talk a lot about the fat community and how people similarly just want to kind of distance themselves from them because they feel as though, oh, god, I don’t want to look like that, what if I look like that.
Lolo [00:29:31] Yeah.
Jameela [00:29:31] And so just to, like, be able to find a way to maybe relate further to some people who might be listening to this. It’s the same. It’s the same shit. We project your own fear of something onto someone else and then think, if I don’t, you know, the way someone else looks, the way someone else walks isn’t contagious. And even if it is, it’s not the end of the fucking world. And I think that’s the big part of what you are trying to show people. You have this amazing YouTube channel called Sitting Pretty, and again, that is you showing a very realistic and sometimes messy and chaotic and fun and extremely bold lifestyle.
Lolo [00:30:09] Exactly that.
Jameela [00:30:10] And warts and all. You don’t really hide anything from what I can see now in this channel. Can you talk to me a little bit about starting Sitting Pretty?
Lolo [00:30:18] So the interesting part is I started Sitting Pretty as a way to rebel against an old boss I had. I was working a full time job at the time, and I had a a previous employer who kind of gave me one of those talks of like, well, if you don’t fix this, we might have to let you go energy. And so, of course, with them having no concept of how challenging it is to be employed as a person with a disability, let alone get paid well, have a good paying position. And you know how those jobs have health insurance and all these different things, them cutting me off because of something they didn’t like, was literally them saying they were going to cut me off even though they had no concept of this. The way I took it is like, Oh, you’re trying to cut me off from my entire lifestyle, my entire life in general, my health insurance, my well-being, my rent, my food, my water, all of these different things.
Jameela [00:31:20] I’m sorry. Just before we move on, I just want to jump in on that because it’s really fucking important because so many people don’t understand, especially in the United States, but also it’s the same in the UK how fucked the financial support situation is for people with disabilities. It’s like you think the health care part is the worst part of America and then you find out about the rules and regulations around people with disabilities. I mean, you were told to live off, what, $750 a month.
Lolo [00:31:47] A month.
Jameela [00:31:48] A month.
Lolo [00:31:49] In Los Angeles by the way.
Jameela [00:31:51] In in L.A., you were told to live off $750 a month because you hadn’t yet had the had enough employment to prove that you were, quote, unquote, worth more money per month than that, not taking into account that you’re getting this money in the first place because you have a motherfucking disability which has stopped you from being employed because pre-pandemic no one knew that you could work from fucking home. Now the whole world works from home and everyone’s made all of the possible adjustments they could.
Lolo [00:32:22] Exactly.
Jameela [00:32:23] You’re slapping a lot of things right now, so I take it you’re agreeing with me?
Lolo [00:32:27] One hundred thousand percent.
Jameela [00:32:31] And and you’re not allowed to have more than $2,000 in your fucking bank account. And most people with disability are afraid to even get married.
Lolo [00:32:39] A lot of people with disabilities don’t want to get married because you could lose your disability income based on your spouse or something like that because.
Jameela [00:32:49] And their income and and because if you have two disabled people getting married, they will both lose their disabled income. It is fucking terrifying.
Lolo [00:32:59] It’s. It’s. It’s. It’s and the thing is, it’s not even based on where you live at either. So like I was saying, the 750 a month in L.A. because maybe, maybe 750 would work in like Nebraska or some shit like that. But even then, 750 is still pennies in Nebraska. So now you’re adding L.A., one of the most expensive cities in the world to live, and you’re still only giving me 750 a month. So with that.
Jameela [00:33:33] And no free health care.
Lolo [00:33:34] No.
Jameela [00:33:35] That arely covers health care.
Lolo [00:33:36] Exactly. Exactly that. And then the facilities for the health care child. I just there’s so much there’s so many directions that this conversation could go. It’s just all over the place. It’s not high quality health care. Those doctors don’t give a fuck about you. The doctors that for people who do have good health care. Those doctors still don’t give a fuck about you. So it’s like. Where do you go to get help? So when this employer threatened to take all of that away from me to go back to living on 750 a month, no more than $2,000 in my account at a time, I was like, Oh, I have to figure out a way to have control of my livelihood because no one is going to take this away from me. Like I like I just became so incredibly determined. And so because I had got my degree in TV production, I knew how to put on a production. I know how to set up camera. I know how to get decent lighting. Audio editing was my emphasis in my major, so I knew how to video edit, and I was like, I’m going to start a YouTube channel. And I’m going to talk about my life because that’s the only thing that I know how to talk about really well and that people seem to be kind of fascinated by or intrigued or entertained with. So I just started that and I wanted to make sure that I focused on topics that I saw other disabled people not talking about on YouTube, but also those topics that people don’t talk about in real life to each other when it comes to dating sex travel. Going out, having a social life. Finding employment. All of those different things that everyone can relate to. But nobody really understood a real, authentic, positive perspective in most cases with regards to disability. So I wanted to talk about that and I wanted to show it. And, you know, even at the beginning, my mom told me she was like, Lauren, are you sure you want to cus as much as you do in your videos, like what if brands or, you know, people get turned off by it? And then I thought about it and I was like, Well, then those aren’t my people, because I have to be as authentic to myself as possible. And because I curse like a sailor.
Jameela [00:36:06] Same.
Lolo [00:36:06] Yeah, exactly. You know, because what I didn’t want to do is have to.
Jameela [00:36:10] We should work some sort of sailor brand, shouldn’t we?
Lolo [00:36:15] Something.
Jameela [00:36:16] Yeah we’ll work on that. Sorry, as you were saying.
Lolo [00:36:19] And so and so. Yeah. So I was just like, I don’t want nobody fucking with me if they don’t really fuck with me. And the only way people know who I am is by me showing who I am and being authentic about it. And so that’s that’s always been kind of like my foundation for any topics I discuss on on Sitting Pretty.
Jameela [00:36:41] And what would you say is some of the more the most like explicit and and I mean that in a very, very positive way. What would you say are some of the most kind of like even I don’t know, maybe you even were like, oh, shit, do I want to put this on here? What would you say is the most out there thing you have put on your YouTube channel?
Lolo [00:37:00] I would probably say the feminine hygiene one was one I was a little nervous about, only because to admit that to the world that I was suffering from back to back yeast infections and I didn’t know what to do and I had to figure out how to take care of my vagina properly because I didn’t want to.
Jameela [00:37:26] Why the world has so much information. We’re just given so much information about women’s gynecology. No one’s awkward talking about.
Lolo [00:37:34] Exactly. Exactly that. And, you know, and I and I didn’t want the doctor to keep giving me these pills, to keep popping, to keep my PH balance when after Google searching in a deep Google search because it was not readily available, especially for wheelchair users. A big part of it is because I just wasn’t getting the air flow because I’m a wheelchair user, so I had to figure out what that was. So that was definitely one of the ones I was a little nervous about.
Jameela [00:38:06] What do you do in that case? You create a little hole in the wheelchair. Like, what do you do?
Lolo [00:38:11] You know, that’s actually,.
Jameela [00:38:12] No I’m serious.
Lolo [00:38:12] You know, that’s actually kind of genius. I didn’t even think about that. But no. So for me, luckily, I am ambulatory. So I do have the ability to stand and walk outside of my wheelchair. So when I.
Jameela [00:38:25] Air out.
Lolo [00:38:26] I’ve been able to air out, but I used a blow dryer. A lot of people are really thrown off.
Jameela [00:38:33] Oh sure, on the cool. On the cool setting I take it.
Lolo [00:38:36] Yes. And we just do one of these every time I get out the shower and especially like after having sex and I go take a shower and then I come back and I just I have to tell whoever I slept with, like, hey, just so you know, I’m blow drying my, my pussy right now. It’s just because it helps keep my PH balanced. And they would sit there and watched and I’m spread eagle on the bed just blowing my shit and.
Jameela [00:39:01] I mean, no one’s upset to see that.
Lolo [00:39:04] No one. I mean, I feel and you know what’s interesting every guy that I.
Jameela [00:39:07] That could be a genre I think on Pornhub.
Lolo [00:39:11] It should be. Care and just hygiene care. Every guy was like, no, I’ve never I’ve never seen that. But I’m actually really happy to know that you’re taking care of yourself. Yes, I am. Because this shit gets uncomfortable sitting when you when your PH is off. And so it’s like, you know, vitamin C, lots and lots and lots and lots of water, organic cranberry juice, all these different things. All these different things.
Jameela [00:39:38] I’m really not mad at my suggestion of the little hole in the seat.
Lolo [00:39:42] To be that is genius actually like that didn’t even cross my mind. But honestly.
Jameela [00:39:50] You can even stick the hairdryer under there just halfway through the day and just get straight to source.
Lolo [00:39:54] See what I’m saying. Because on those hot days, it gets a little tricky because.
Jameela [00:39:58] We should patent that.
Lolo [00:39:59] Yeah, we should definitely do that. I would be down.
Jameela [00:40:02] Talk to me about. Talk to me about dating.
Lolo [00:40:05] Ugh God.
Jameela [00:40:07] I mean, yeah, this is that’s the this is the answer I get every time I ask anyone on this podcast about that. But dating with a disability. Talk to me about it.
Lolo [00:40:20] Talk about a journey. Dating with a disability has been a true self-love journey. It’s the only area of my life where I feel like I get tested the most on how much I love myself and how confident of a person am I really? Because to date with a disability, especially when you have a visible disability, you’re already dealing with society in general. But then you have to prove. You get this feeling because you don’t have to do shit you don’t want to do. So you get a feeling that you have to prove that you’re woman enough to be a man’s partner. I even asked once in a clubhouse room, Thank God I’m no longer on there, but in a clubhouse room where I asked a group of non-disabled men and I said, What is really your reservation on dating a woman with a disability? Like why? And a majority of them had said because they’re afraid that they wouldn’t be able to have kids with that woman. Like if they fell in love with that woman, married her, they couldn’t have kids. And I was like, well, you know, that’s a conversation. And that’s completely false because a lot of disabled women are still able to have children.
Jameela [00:41:50] And lots of women who aren’t disabled and lots of people who aren’t disabled can’t have children.
Lolo [00:41:56] Hello. Exactly that. But you’re willing to take a chance. Anyways. So, yes. But it’s been a true self-love journey and a confidence journey. I have predominantly dated using apps because nobody approaches me in person. And the people that have approached me in person have all been creeps and nobody wants that energy. And so that’s where it is. And it’s a constant up and down rollercoaster, to be completely honest. It’s it’s tough because I’m constantly trying to prove that I am a good partner in spite of having a disability. And sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn’t. And it’s.
Jameela [00:42:48] Yeah. And also it feels and in no way am I trying to diminish your experience. But I also just want to be clear that I’m sure there’s a lot of people who don’t have a disability who are listening to this and relating to everything you’re saying, because it’s also just a fucking pool of rats.
Lolo [00:43:06] It’s a shit show!
Jameela [00:43:08] It is a shit show.
Lolo [00:43:08] Absolute shit show dating right now. And I think that’s the thing that makes it even more challenging is when, you know, non-disabled women are having an equal amount of a challenge, then you add disability on top of it. So it’s like the pool of rats that you get to choose from is even smaller pool of rats, because only that small pool are the ones that are even opening themselves to even have a conversation with you. Or or just want to get to know you or date you or see us as a woman. First I was frustrated cause I’ve been kind of going through this low key semi breakup situation as of recently, and. I told my mom I was visiting my mom and I was like, yo mom I’m just tired of having to prove that I’m human. Everyone sees me and what I do my career, but also having a disability and being positive, living with the disability as being this superwoman superhero woman archetype that they don’t think that I feel. They don’t think that I hurt. They don’t think that I am struggling. They don’t think anything like that. So they treat me as if.
Jameela [00:44:28] You add the black woman steretype
Lolo [00:44:29] Girl. You had the black woman on top of it, too. They think, oh, they can just throw bullets at you all day long and you’re just going to bounce it off and not trip and it’s not going to bother you. And so it’s tough. It’s tough. It’s very, very, very, very tough.
Jameela [00:44:49] But I think you are a part of steering the change. And and also, you’re a beautiful woman like you, like, excessively hot. And and I think it’s really cool that you are taking the roles and spreading the message and empowering more people to look at those with disabilities as, uh, as people who are sexy and fun and cool and stylish and you have bold hair and bold fashion choices and you turn heads. And I think that. It’s incredibly cool considering the fact that you have had to go through all of these things yourself that have made you question your own confidence, etc.. I think it’s really great that you are now channeling all of that into change.
Lolo [00:45:38] Yes.
Jameela [00:45:39] And we just need more people like that. You know I had Jillian Mercado on this podcast, I don’t know if you’ve ever met her.
Lolo [00:45:46] Yeah I met Jillian before. Yeah.
Jameela [00:45:48] She’s great. And and we were talking about you know, she was talking about the fact that some people, when it comes to dating, think that she’s too fragile to be able to have sex. She’s like, no, I want to be thrown I just want to be thrown around.
Lolo [00:45:59] Girl. I just want a little choke. I just want a little choke. Not too bad.
Jameela [00:46:02] Yeah. Yeah.
Lolo [00:46:03] Just like a little one. Just a little one. Okay. But yes, exactly that. That there’s that piece of it, too. And everyone’s so afraid to have the fucking conversation. It’s like, let’s just talk this out, please. And then that’s the problem. Nobody knows how to fucking communicate, so you can’t even have an adult decent conversation about these things that people are thinking about, but for some reason don’t want to discuss.
Jameela [00:46:31] I mean, isn’t that just the foundation of every issue that we’re dealing with when it comes to consent in our society? We just can’t talk about this stuff. It’s just you’re getting the most exaggerated and exacerbated.
Lolo [00:46:42] Exactly.
Jameela [00:46:43] Side of this. But everyone should look at this as a symptom of a much bigger fundamental, foundational problem,.
Lolo [00:46:50] 100%.
Jameela [00:46:51] That we have as a whole in our society.
Lolo [00:46:53] Exactly.
Jameela [00:46:53] You’re just shining you’re just shining a light on it. And it’s it’s more I guess it’s more prevalent for you because of because it’s it’s fear. Like all discrimination is not always just steeped in hatred. It’s steeped in fear. And a lot of people don’t think they’re discriminating when they choose to just not look and not engage because they’re not actively trying to take away your rights. But they are denying your humanity and not engaging with you and learning about you and asking you to at least speak for yourself.
Lolo [00:47:21] Exactly.
Jameela [00:47:22] Treating disabled people as if they are a monolith.
Lolo [00:47:24] Exactly.
Jameela [00:47:24] And they all have the same story. They all have the same needs. They all have the same fragilities and strengths.
Lolo [00:47:29] Exactly.
Jameela [00:47:29] They are these stoic heroes. And not always stoic. I was a bit of a cunt, if I’m honest. Not because of my disability. I was always a cunt. I’m still a cunt now. Know what I mean? I wasn’t I wasn’t Jesus on wheels, you know what I mean, like.
Lolo [00:47:47] And the and the wild part about you saying that even in my dating life. I’ve had exes be surprised that I would talk back or fight back or defend myself in an argument or such. I literally was told by one of my most toxic exes, he said, you know, you got a lot of mouth for someone with a disability. You talk a lot of shit for someone with a disability. And I’m like.
Jameela [00:48:16] What is if you’re a charity case, whose so lucky to have someone.
Lolo [00:48:19] Exactly that. And then we have to be careful of those guys who try to date you and try to get the Gold Star because I’m dating someone with a disability. I’m so open minded. I’m so free. I’m such an ally. Fuck you like you ain’t doing shit for me like you still get on my goddamn nerves. So how are you helping my life in any way? So, yeah, so there is, there is that. That’s why it’s just so important that whatever you’re and to not fall into feeling you have to be an inspiration to other people because you have a disability. I come across that a lot with people who follow me on on social media. They’ll ask me like, you know, how can I be an inspiration like you and, you know, all these different things? I’m like, Do you want to be an inspiration for real? Because you don’t have to be if you don’t want to trust me. Like.
Jameela [00:49:10] Also what’s so inspiring about you is that you’re not always trying to be an inspiration.
Lolo [00:49:14] I don’t. I literally do not create anything to inspire. That is never my goal. That is never my goal. If people so happen to be inspired by it, I am grateful. I am thankful. I really do thank God every day for that. But I don’t make this to be like.
Jameela [00:49:32] I’m exactly the same, by the way. Like, I think that’s why we got on so well is like, I’m exactly the same where I’m like, I, I, I’m bringing fuck up inspiration. I’m here to be the role model for the fuck ups, you know what I mean, for the people who fell and are going to try and get back up covered in their own shit.
Lolo [00:49:51] Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. We don’t have to be.
Jameela [00:49:54] Because we need that representation. You think disability representation is bad? What about fuck up representation? We have almost no women in that area. Definitely not brown women.
Lolo [00:50:04] Exactly.
Jameela [00:50:05] Definitely not black women. Yeah. I don’t know what you’re complaining about. Oh, your lack of representation. What about people like me?
Lolo [00:50:10] Exactly that. What about the people who keep fucking up who just.
Jameela [00:50:16] Yeah. Where’s we just get erased from society but I’m still here. On my own. Begging for another chance.
Lolo [00:50:24] Exactly, I just need another chance. Somebody help me. Please. Help me, please.
Jameela [00:50:30] Exactly. Yeah. Where’s my podcast episode?
Lolo [00:50:33] Yeah no, seriously exactly that. Exactly.
Jameela [00:50:42] I think that it’s really important to not fall into the deity trap.
Lolo [00:50:48] Yeah. Yeah.
Jameela [00:50:50] That people hold you to. It’s really odd. I mean. It’s dehumanizing. You’re not doing anyone any favors. You’re you’re denying them the right to be to have the spectrum of emotions of as everyone else.
Lolo [00:51:01] Exactly. It’s one of the reasons why I don’t like going to church. I love God. I have a great relationship with God. But I don’t like going to church because it’s like as soon as I show up in a wheelchair, I am a miracle waiting to happen for everyone in the congregation to witness. And I’m the one everybody wants to lay hands on and pray over. And all I get offers to be prayed on p r a y e d and prey p r e y too you know, when I’m out and about in the world so much and I decline it one because it’s like, I don’t know you so I don’t know, you know, what kind of energy spirit you got. But secondly, why am I the one whose life you feel like is going to be the miracle change when the person standing next to me could be battling with addiction and you don’t even know it. I’m good. But you don’t think that this person needs prayer if you going to pray for me, pray for every single other person in this place. Because.
Jameela [00:52:05] I mean, you’re so good. You’re so good that when I asked you in our pre-interview the question about, you know, like this is a mental health podcast, I was like, how’s your mental health been? You were like, Yeah, I’m fine. Like, I’ve always been fine. It’s just not something that you have personally struggled with, and yet you have. I’d say almost the majority of the American society is struggling with some form of mental health issues that eating disorder or just like depression or anxiety or or addiction, etc. you know, we have everyone struggling and because you can’t see it, no one reaches out to you, no one helps and also known treats you like a burden.
Lolo [00:52:43] Exactly. Exactly. And that’s the thing. Because even because here’s the thing, right. Like especially now when it comes to mental health and this is something that I’m more so recently learning because especially in the black community, we don’t talk about mental health, we never grew up talking about mental health. We just thought, Oh, that’s just our crazy cousin, or that’s just, you know, that’s just how they get down.
Jameela [00:53:08] Same. Same.
Lolo [00:53:08] Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, they’re just trippin today. They’re just like, No, there’s something to that. But like, even for me, what I did, I have learned that I have my moment dealing with mental health. And for me, I don’t really I don’t know. I don’t know. I never actually went to like a doctor to to about a diagnosis or anything. But I do know that I have my moments of anxiety that get really bad and I get triggered like I don’t sometimes my brain, especially when I’m like really stressed and doing a lot, it really gets really tricky. I was on the plane yesterday and I forgot to take my battery out of my wheelchair and put it up in the plane. So it was underneath the plane. And I started thinking like, Oh my God, what if this battery explodes? And it’s just like, The battery is not going to explode, Lauren like, you’re going to be fine. The plane is going to be fine. But I literally couldn’t even relax until we landed. Like, literally the the flight attendant. They told me they were like, no, it’s completely fine. You’re totally fine. If it was going to be an issue, we would have flagged it before. And I was just like, But are you sure? Because that like is so I have my moments with mental health. But you know, for the most part.
Jameela [00:54:32] I don’t know if that sounds like a problem with your mental health. I think if you think a battery in your wheelchair is going to explode, I think I’d be more worried about you if you weren’t worried about that. It’s something I’m starting to learn more and more about myself is I thought I had, like, some sort of general anxiety disorder.
Lolo [00:54:50] Me too.
Jameela [00:54:50] But because I was so off and anxious, but I realized it’s because I wasn’t ever honoring my needs socially, culturally, emotionally, physically. I was just always trying to sort of, quote unquote battle through scenarios that made me feel incredibly uncomfortable and and I was just fucking uncomfortable because now in my last, like, I sort of figured this out about a year and a half ago and started to live very selfishly in that, in that I just like in a self-preservation way. I just stopped doing anything that made me uncomfortable.
Lolo [00:55:28] Interesting.
Jameela [00:55:29] My anxiety has gone away. And so I was like, Oh shit, maybe I don’t have an anxiety disorder. Maybe I was just living in a way that wasn’t integral to my needs. That’s not to say other people don’t have an anxiety dirsorder cause I know people who do. But I think a lot of our anxieties are deeply rational and based on the fact that, especially as women, we feel the need to just power on.
Lolo [00:55:52] Do you know what? I am going to pay more attention to that because I again, I’m just calling it moments of anxiety, thinking that that’s what it is. You know.
Jameela [00:56:04] It’s very valid stress. Not that anxiety isn’t valid, I’m just saying, like, that’s a it’s it’s very fucking it’s it’s it’s completely appropriate to feel anxious on a plane generally. Never mind if you think your wheelchair is going to fucking explode. But I. I can’t think of a time more valid or appropriate to be concerned.
Lolo [00:56:29] Well, thank you for affirming me in that, because I thought I was really tripping like.
Jameela [00:56:36] You might also have anxiety. I’m just saying that as an example, that’s not a very good one.
Lolo [00:56:39] You know, that is completely, completely fucking fair. But see, that’s the thing, right? Is like. I’m I’m constantly trying to figure out, like, what’s going on.
Jameela [00:56:58] I mean, it’s it’s a really stressful, stressful world for anyone. Never mind someone who’s walking through the world as like, you know, you have to. And so, like, it’s just it’s just.
Lolo [00:57:08] It’s a lot.
Jameela [00:57:09] It’s it’s it’s a lot. It’s a lot to deal with. You’re taking on a lot. You’re also working so much. And and you’re having to explicitly be the change that you want to see in the world, which is fun and exciting and, and it uplifts other people. But also, you know, it’s fucking exhausting. It’s a lot of responsibility. Can you tell me just a little bit, just as we’re coming to a close, what your work has meant to other people?
Lolo [00:57:36] Oh, my gosh. You know, the messages that I’ve gotten from people who’ve watched videos or left comments, you know, the general consensus is that there’s so many people who feel just a lot more confident having a disability now because they’ve seen something that I’ve created or watch something and and took something that I said to heed and applied it to their own life. You know, I did a video a long time ago about employment, and I believe I gave tips on, like, how to get a job, basically. And one young lady sent me a DM and she said, I took your advice and I actually got hired on for a job. I’ve had I’ve had girls who applied the tips that I had for dating apps onto their profiles and the like. I’ve got three dates set up this week and I’m like, Girl, you’re killing me because I don’t have any dates set up this week, you know what I mean? But it just it’s those moments. I’ve got parents in my DMS saying, thank you so much like. As my daughter gets older, like because they’ll have a really young children.
Jameela [00:58:54] Yeah.
Lolo [00:58:54] You know, as my daughter gets older, I like to know that there’s someone that she’s going to be able to look up to and relate to and be able to just be a woman and be human about her experience. I’m just really grateful, you know, for for the work that you’re doing. So I get so much love from so many different areas and so many different people that it is the driving force. Like now it’s like, okay, people are really needing this and they’re using it the way that I intend for people to get it, which is the really important part, is that I don’t feel like my message is being misunderstood. I feel like people are grasping it and they’re understanding it and they’re applying it to their own lives. And so that’s been really, really special to witness and see like in comments and in DMs and stuff like that.
Jameela [00:59:46] And so what is your hope now for the future? I don’t mean, like climate change and everything I’m thinking about, like just specifically when it comes to the subjects which you advocate, like what do you hope for going forward?
Lolo [00:59:59] Man you know, I just hope that people fucking chill out when it comes to people with disabilities. Like, yo, stop trippin. Stop being scared. Some being afraid. Stop being weird and awkward. Stop. Just chill out. Just really recognize people with disabilities as being human first. I just want our humanity to lead before a disability. And I want young black girls with disabilities to know that they are worthy, that they are loved, they are appreciated. That they are wanted. That they are desired because. Black woman disability or not. Those are all things that we struggle with. But even more so when you have a disability. You know, it’s, like you said, exacerbated even more for our experience. So I want that to be shown. And then I want women with disabilities to know that they can be sexy, that they are desired, that they are loved, that they can have sex freely and enjoy themselves and date and have multiple partners if they want, if that’s what they want. You know, I want it to feel empowering, fun, and just like I say with Sitting Pretty, I just continue to showcase disability in a fun fly sexy kind of way. And I just want that to be applied moving forward. So that way I can just stop talking about it.
Jameela [01:01:31] That is the goal, isn’t it? And honestly, we want to like, we want to write ourselves out of a job like we want. We don’t want to have to do this anymore.
Lolo [01:01:39] I don’t want to have to do this forever.
Jameela [01:01:43] You’re the best.
Lolo [01:01:44] Thank you.
Jameela [01:01:44] I really I really love talking to you every time I, you know, let’s go get a drink.
Lolo [01:01:49] No, seriously,.
Jameela [01:01:50] When I come back to L.A. We’re hanging out.
Lolo [01:01:52] You know we’ll
Jameela [01:01:53] We’re going to get deeply inappropriate.
Lolo [01:01:55] Deeply inappropriate. And I cannot wait.
Jameela [01:01:58] All right. Okay. So before we go get a drink together. Will you tell me? Laren, what do you weigh?
Lolo [01:02:07] I weigh my advocacy, my disability advocacy. I weigh my femininity. I weigh my blackness. I weigh my style. I weigh my ability to communicate my thoughts. I weigh how much I get to turn up.
Jameela [01:02:35] 100%. And I feel like you weigh the freedom you have given yourself.
Lolo [01:02:42] Yes.
Jameela [01:02:43] And others. To have the permission to live life on your own terms.
Lolo [01:02:47] Yes. Let’s add that, too.
Jameela [01:02:50] Great.
Lolo [01:02:52] I love that. That’s perfect.
Jameela [01:02:54] You’re just a dream. You’re a dream. And I’m so excited for everyone to hear this conversation.
Lolo [01:03:00] Yes.
Jameela [01:03:00] Disabled, non-disabled. Doesn’t matter. Everyone needs to hear this conversation. We need to have more of these conversations constantly until this is no longer a conversation.
Lolo [01:03:06] Absolutely. Absolutely. I can’t wait.
Jameela [01:03:09] Alright, well, you get back to your extremely busy life and all your award nominations, and I will see you really soon.
Lolo [01:03:17] Yes I will see you soon. Can’t wait.
Jameela [01:03:20] Thank you.
Lolo [01:03:21] Of course. Thank you.
Jameela [01:03:24] Thank you so much for listening to this week’s episode. I Weigh with Jameela Jamil is produced and research by myself, Jameela, Jamil, Erin Finnegan and Kimmie Gregory. It is edited by Andrew Carson. And the beautiful music you are hearing now is made by my boyfriend James Blake. If you haven’t already, please rate review and subscribe to the show. It’s a great way to show your support. We also have a bonus series exclusively on Stitcher Premium called Ask Jameela Anything. Check it out. You can get a free month of Stitcher Premium by going Stitcher.com/premium and using the promo code I Weigh. Lastly over at I Weigh, we would love to hear from you and share what you weigh at the end of this podcast. You can leave us a voicemail at 18186605543 or email us what you weigh at Iweighpodcast@gmail.com. And now we would love to pass the mic to one of our fabulous listeners. I weigh my friends and family. I weigh my resilience, my strength. I weigh my passion for mental health and for every other thing that I can learn about day after day.
September 21, 2023
Jameela is joined by campaigner and writer Gina Martin, and in this optimistic conversation about creating change for equal rights around the world, they discuss how anyone can show up and support activism (especially offline in real spaces) and what this activism work can look like.