EP. 365.5 — Last Looks: Doppelganger

 

[00:00:00] Paul Scheer: For Malignant to run, this movie had to crawl. We saw Doppelganger, so you know what that means.

[00:00:08] Music: [Intro Song] [00:00:11] Paul Scheer: Hello, people of earth and welcome to How Did This Get Made! I am Paul Scheer. And this is How Did This Get Made a podcast about bad movies. And this one was picked by our discord. And let me tell you.

[00:00:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, this was as well. Is this how the show is now? We just let them run roughshod all over us?

[00:00:33] June Diane Raphael: Does Discord just sponsor the show?

[00:00:35] Paul Scheer: Last week or last time we recorded an episode, we said, well, this Drew Barrymore movie looks like it would have been a better pick than the one that they picked, and so we just, we made the decision to go with their second pick as our next movie.

[00:00:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, okay. Okay.

[00:00:49] Paul Scheer: So that was our choice.

[00:00:51] June Diane Raphael: I don’t remember it that way.

[00:00:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay. By the way, fine. And, and, and, and had this been the pick, I would have rewarded the audience with compliments because this is perfect for the podcast. This, this movie was right. Fastball down the middle for the podcast. I felt like, wow, wow.

[00:01:10] Paul Scheer: And these voices that you’re hearing, of course, are Will Arnett and Jason Bateman.

[00:01:14] Welcome to the show guys.

[00:01:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Welcome to Smartless.

[00:01:18] Paul Scheer: Uh, this, this is a movie that IMDB describes as this, uh, a writer with a room for rent acquires a strange new roommate with a psychotic alter ego that follows him wherever he goes. Um, that is the premise. I mean, this is, I mean, wow, it is, it is a movie that, uh, came out in 1993, starring Drew Barrymore as, uh, someone who has a doppelganger or does she?

[00:01:50] June Diane Raphael: Or does she?

[00:01:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Or is she a doppelganger? The end of the movie’s, um, body horror, uh, introduction really throws the, what is going on into stark, stark chaos.

[00:02:03] Paul Scheer: So many questions, so many questions, but.

[00:02:07] June Diane Raphael: Last, I mean, the last, sorry, Paul, we’ll get in.

[00:02:11] Paul Scheer: Do you want to get to the last?

[00:02:13] June Diane Raphael: Well, just because there’s so much nonsense that goes on.

[00:02:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Cook it up, june, cook it up.

[00:02:19] June Diane Raphael: Well, I also thought, wow, I can’t believe it’s been 15 years of this podcast. We haven’t seen this movie. I’ve never heard of this movie.

[00:02:25] Paul Scheer: I’ve never even heard of it.

[00:02:26] Jason Mantzoukas: I have seen this movie.

[00:02:27] Paul Scheer: What?

[00:02:28] June Diane Raphael: You did?

[00:02:29] Jason Mantzoukas: I have seen this movie before. This movie is part of a series of movies that my friends and I became obsessed with in college that were the Drew Barrymore, like, uh, Poison Ivy was the other one. This was one. And, and there are other ones that Drew Barrymore is not in, but we, we were obsessed with kind of the sleazy noirs of that, of the mid 90s. You know.

[00:02:54] Paul Scheer: This is a really, like, I think like Drew Barrymore had a little string of these because she was in, uh, another, like, uh, what was it called? The Amy Fisher story.

[00:03:02] Uh, well, Poison Ivy, but the, uh, the, the Amy Fisher story. She was also in this movie called Gun Crazy. Um, and.

[00:03:11] Jason Mantzoukas: She has short hair in that one.

[00:03:13] Paul Scheer: Yes. Oh, wow. Look at this. You see, you got it all.

[00:03:16] Jason Mantzoukas: These are the movies that were not just, cause I’m also remembering VHS boxes.

[00:03:20] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:03:20] Jason Mantzoukas: These were also like very prominent rentals, you know, like.

[00:03:24] Paul Scheer: Yeah, this is like a little bit before she kind of really came back with like the bad girls, boys on the side, mad love thing. This is like, this isn’t a weird moment. As a matter of fact.

[00:03:33] Jason Mantzoukas: She’s like our age. I mean, she’s our age at the time. She’s a teenage.

[00:03:36] Paul Scheer: 17. When she shoots this movie, she is 17 years old.

[00:03:41] June Diane Raphael: Oh, no, really?

[00:03:43] Paul Scheer: Yes, and uh, and that opening, that opening scene.

[00:03:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh oh, should we not have watched it?

[00:03:49] June Diane Raphael: I, oh, okay.

[00:03:52] Paul Scheer: I mean, yeah, that is a, um, I mean, there is, I mean, I know why you’re saying that in some ways.

[00:03:59] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, she’s underage.

[00:04:01] Paul Scheer: Well, well, no, according to, uh, I guess the law, uh, she was allowed to do nudity at 17. So the day she turned 17 is the day they did the shower scene.

[00:04:12] Jason Mantzoukas: What?! Is that true?

[00:04:14] June Diane Raphael: Is that called child’s pornography?

[00:04:16] Paul Scheer: No, because I think, I think she could be nude. She had posed totally nude in Interview Magazine when she was 16. And, uh, and

[00:04:25] June Diane Raphael: Alright, I’m upset, and I’m upset that you know all of this. This facts are.

[00:04:29] Paul Scheer: I only know it because I have the research. Blame Molly, I’m looking at the research.

[00:04:34] Jason Mantzoukas: I, you know, I, I also feel like the, the reality is in this movie specific, her mother’s not able to be there looking out for her because she kills her in the opening scene. The mother that, the mother that she kills in the scene is Drew Barrymore’s actual mother.

[00:04:51] June Diane Raphael: Also like the reality of Drew Barrymore.

[00:04:54] Jason Mantzoukas: That’s what I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying.

[00:04:57] June Diane Raphael: Yes.

[00:04:57] Paul Scheer: I, I, um, wow. This, you know, I read Drew Barrymore’s, uh, book. I love Drew Barrymore. Um, she did not.

[00:05:04] June Diane Raphael: I loved her in this movie.

[00:05:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I think drew Barrymore is incredible.

[00:05:09] Paul Scheer: Well, this is why Drew Barrymore had the comeback.

[00:05:11] Jason Mantzoukas: From from a child from E. T. and, uh, Firestarter all the way through this, this period of incredible rebellion that she’s in in these years, all the way through to 51st dates and never been kissed and all the rest. You know.

[00:05:27] Paul Scheer: She kind of held it down like she knew what she had in front of.

[00:05:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Charlie’s angels.

[00:05:31] Paul Scheer: These are the options that I have, and I’m going to deliver, and I remember Poison Ivy is great, and as someone who grew up in Long Island, I did like the Amy Fisher story as well, I felt it hit home.

[00:05:41] June Diane Raphael: I did too, I grew up, you know, I remember passing by Buttafuco’s Mechanics, or whatever it was called.

[00:05:48] Paul Scheer: And, and when, June, when you used to stop there, you never had a thing with Joey, right? You never, you never.

[00:05:53] June Diane Raphael: He wasn’t interested in me, but I, I definitely just peeked in, see if he wanted to take a look at the goods.

[00:05:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, wow.

[00:06:00] Paul Scheer: Uh, I will tell you, I will tell you that Joey, uh, or for a long time ran an ice cream truck that would come to set. And when we were on the league, uh, well, first I went out to go get an ice cream. It was like one of the, uh, a crew treat. And I went out there and, uh, my jaw dropped to the ground to see the man in the Mr. Softee truck be JoeyButafuko. I go, uh, what?

[00:06:24] Jason Mantzoukas: In LA?

[00:06:26] Paul Scheer: In L. A. He moved out to L. A.

[00:06:27] June Diane Raphael: He moved to L. A. He was a part of all those reality shows at one point.

[00:06:31] Paul Scheer: He was on some of those.

[00:06:32] Jason Mantzoukas: I didn’t know that. Oh, okay, okay, okay.

[00:06:34] Paul Scheer: Long story short, once I found out that he owned these trucks, I got this treat every time I could possibly get it. Because the chance of seeing, uh, Joey B. Serving up some soft serve was, uh,

[00:06:46] June Diane Raphael: Why would you financially support that man?

[00:06:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Right?

[00:06:49] Paul Scheer: Well, he didn’t do anything wrong, did he? Oh, I guess he did. I guess he did, yeah.

[00:06:54] Jason Mantzoukas: I mean, the part where he’s sleeping with a high school student, uh, He is, I guess, technically an accessory to attempted murder, but

[00:07:03] Paul Scheer: I thought that he, you know what, now that you’re reminding me of the story, I thought it was that he said, hey, no, no, no, no, I can’t have a relationship with you, but you’re right, he did have. He did have.

[00:07:11] Jason Mantzoukas: You know what you need to do, Paul. You need to watch the Drew Barrymore, Joey, Butafuko movie. You need a rem, you need a reminder.

[00:07:17] Paul Scheer: And the Amy fisher story, the Amy Fisher story?

[00:07:20] Sorry, June. I didn’t mean to support that, uh, man, but the ice cream is very good. And it was only the, it was good New York soft serve in LA. And that’s a hard thing to get like bagels, but not anymore though. Bagels are back. Um, okay.

[00:07:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Bagels are back?

[00:07:32] Paul Scheer: Bagels are back in LA. I mean, there’s boy chicks, which just opened up.

[00:07:36] June Diane Raphael: Courage.

[00:07:36] Paul Scheer: Courage. Courage is great. Of course. Uh, I love yeasty boys anyway. Um, this open, I felt like it’s such an odd thing because this movie is a very low budget LA in the valley.

[00:07:50] June Diane Raphael: Is it low budget?

[00:07:51] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s, it’s pretty, it’s pretty low budget. Like.

[00:07:55] Paul Scheer: The ending isn’t.

[00:07:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:07:57] June Diane Raphael: The ending is not. And that’s why like, oh, I guess they just put all of their money there. And there is like, What the opening sequence is definitely in New York City.

[00:08:07] Jason Mantzoukas: For sure. Oh no. They they’re on location.

[00:08:09] Paul Scheer: That was, that was a two person shoot. They were like, cause they were like, they just shot her walking around, uh, the plaza hotel. Like that was, I feel like they just wanted to get that. Cause they could shot that interior anywhere they needed to shoot that. But that was. Like, I feel like they sent her on a plane that that’s the budget is the ticket and this camera guy, they shot her walking across the street and they’re like, got it. That’s our scope. There’s our movie. We got it.

[00:08:33] Jason Mantzoukas: And so much of anytime they’re outside, it’s the daytime. Like they can’t, they can’t shoot at night at all. Even though the movie wants to be in that it’s like a very neo noir kind of movie. Boy, does it want to be at night.

[00:08:46] Paul Scheer: Oh, I mean, this movie wants to be at night. This movie wants to get wind. I mean, there’s a tree that bangs on a window that I’m like, I feel so bad for that PA who’s like, was honestly like

[00:08:57] June Diane Raphael: That tree was number three on the call sheet.

[00:09:00] Jason Mantzoukas: I was just going to make the joke that the tree provides the second best performance in the movie.

[00:09:07] Paul Scheer: I mean, is she part tree? There’s a part of me that thinks that there is a tree element.

[00:09:11] Jason Mantzoukas: I wish. I don’t understand. Well, okay. I have actual.

[00:09:15] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, let’s let’s no, I want to understand. I left the movie just minutes ago, not entirely understanding what happened.

[00:09:26] Paul Scheer: Well, maybe should we, should we just save it a little bit because I do want to unpack it, but I just want to get to just get to it a little bit and just say that.

[00:09:35] We meet Drew Barrymore. She’s very conservatively dressed. She’s wearing a little bit of a headscarf. She’s walking around and.

[00:09:43] Jason Mantzoukas: I’m sorry. Are you talking about in New York?

[00:09:45] Paul Scheer: Yes.

[00:09:45] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay. Thank you.

[00:09:46] Paul Scheer: Now. And this is why I want to bring this part up here because when we see Drew Barrymore in the headscarf. That’s important for us as an audience to understand that that is not, there’s two Drews.

[00:09:59] Jason Mantzoukas: There’s the Holly, go lightly character, Holly, what’s her name?

[00:10:02] Paul Scheer: Yes.

[00:10:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Goodly, Gooding. Holly Gooding. So the movie has tons of breakfast at Tiffany’s, tons of homages to things.

[00:10:10] June Diane Raphael: That’s right.

[00:10:11] Jason Mantzoukas: The main guy’s name is Patrick Highsmith, which is a riff on Patricia Highsmith, the great author of the Ripley books and all those. There’s a million references throughout this movie, which is funny.

[00:10:22] Paul Scheer: My favorite one is Richard Wolff, the famous TV writer that he meets, which is clearly Dick Wolff. Dick Wolff!

[00:10:30] Jason Mantzoukas: I mean, think about it, like Dick Wolf and Drew Barrymore still incredibly relevant and successful currently. That’s incredible.

[00:10:39] June Diane Raphael: That’s true. That is true. That is, I’m sorry, like that is the sign of quite a career.

[00:10:46] Paul Scheer: Oh my gosh.

[00:10:47] June Diane Raphael: Quite a career.

[00:10:47] Paul Scheer: I mean, Drew Barrymore has been doing it since 1980.

[00:10:51] June Diane Raphael: Wild.

[00:10:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Doing all of it. Doing all of it.

[00:10:54] June Diane Raphael: Can I just say, just, just so, because we’re talking about Richard Wolf right now. There is, we will come to find out much later on that the person we saw that we thought was Richard Wolff, the big Hollywood producer, is not Richard Wolff.

[00:11:10] Paul Scheer: And this is the question I want to ask because when we see Drew Barrymore with the headscarf, is that Drew Barrymore?

[00:11:16] June Diane Raphael: Yes. Wait, what?

[00:11:18] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s not. It’s Dr. Heller.

[00:11:20] June Diane Raphael: Oh.

[00:11:20] Jason Mantzoukas: I think.

[00:11:23] Paul Scheer: So, the opening, I believe, is setting us up for this thing, because we’re watch because we’re watching Drew Barrymore walk through New York City with the headscarf, and then it cuts to the interior of a hotel room where her doctor is a kind of going down outside of the skirt of Drew Barrymore. And at that point, Drew Barrymore’s hands are becoming webbed, right? Or no.

[00:11:48] Jason Mantzoukas: She sees his, something from her point of view is webbed. Like his eyes are webbed. Something, there is some sort of body, body horror element to it. Yes.

[00:12:00] Paul Scheer: So, so. I guess we’re going to, well, again, we’ll, we’ll pull it out a little bit.

[00:12:06] We

[00:12:06] June Diane Raphael: got to piece it together. We’re going to sit, you know, we got to try.

[00:12:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Reality is, and, and this is an interesting, interesting to do in following League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, because this movie we’re going to try to make sense of it. And we’re going to fail because it’s a convoluted mess, but I would watch this a thousand times again. Uh, before I ever watched League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which made, I guess, sense somewhat, you know.

[00:12:31] June Diane Raphael: It’s true. Like I would actually knowing what I know now, and that’s not a lot at all, I would like to go back and watch it again.

[00:12:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Like Sixth Sense or something?

[00:12:44] June Diane Raphael: Characters. Yeah. All of those characters I saw were simply the shrink in very elaborate.

[00:12:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Mission impossible.

[00:12:54] June Diane Raphael: Mission. Yes, but not just Mission Impossible, not just a mask, but a full body suit.

[00:13:00] Paul Scheer: I mean, like he’s doing Eddie Murphy level clumps work in this movie.

[00:13:05] Jason Mantzoukas: He is an incredible performer. He is, think about because we spend time with five of the characters, at least five of the characters that Dr. Heller plays throughout the movie, and they are all radically different. He is an incredible performer.

[00:13:23] Paul Scheer: But you know, but now I love Dr. Heller’s work. I saw him on stage one time. Really fantastic. But here’s the question, Dr. Heller, okay, so if we are to understand that Dr. Heller is trying to set Drew Barrymore up to make it seem like she’s insane, that she’s a crazy person, uh, you mentioned that Drew Barrymore kills her mother in the beginning of the film, that Drew Barrymore comes home to her house, uh, which, penthouse is on the door, right? Always a sign of a good penthouse when they spell out penthouse.

[00:13:48] June Diane Raphael: You got to see it. Otherwise, you don’t know what where you are.

[00:13:51] Paul Scheer: Now she is hearing her mom on the phone. Her mom’s like, ah, fuck this girl.

[00:13:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Little bitch has got to disappear, she says.

[00:13:59] June Diane Raphael: Disappear.

[00:13:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Jesus Christ.

[00:14:00] Paul Scheer: And when, and then we see Drew Barrymore on the other side of the door hearing it and getting upset and that’s when we see the hands with the webbing, but now that is the doctor?

[00:14:14] Jason Mantzoukas: I believe that is actual, because the doctor says at the end, he convinced her to kill her mother. That is not the doctor in dress up. That is Holly Gooding, who kills her mother because her therapist has programmed her, basically. The movie could end with the, the doctor being the baddie and the disguises being the way he was able to be mad bad.

[00:14:39] But what it introduces at the very end is that Drew Barrymore is two different monsters, um, that are bifurcated and then come back together. And that is the part that I don’t understand.

[00:14:54] Paul Scheer: So there are, there are basically, there are Three people trying to be Drew Barrymore at one point, right? Because it’s like, it’s Drew Barrymore, it’s her doppelganger, and then it’s the therapist as, does he ever dress up as Drew Barrymore?

[00:15:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes, because we see the Drew Barrymore outfit. Uh, on a mannequin.

[00:15:11] Paul Scheer: Right, and at one point, um, when he keeps Drew. When the boyfriend, the great guy from Adventures in Babysitting, that Elizabeth Shue actually meets and has a connection with

[00:15:19] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I had such a crush on him.

[00:15:21] Paul Scheer: Love that guy. He’s great. Uh, when he he’s like, Keep her here! Keep her here! And then he’s chased by evil Drew Barrymore and he’s like Uh, she’s still there, and like, yeah, she hasn’t left. So that’s, I mean, so there’s three people being Drew Barrymore in this movie.

[00:15:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, and also, the Doctor both is, the Doctor is dressed as Drew Barrymore and entices Patrick to follow him. And then, when Patrick does follow him into the tunnels, the Doctor somehow changes his mask and outfit to be the father, this father with the scar. Then he chases Patrick with the knife in the alleyway. Those are the same scene. So the doctor is stopping down to do a full costume, wardrobe and mask change.

[00:16:03] Paul Scheer: And I would love to get this guy’s number because he would be amazing on a set, especially in a low budget like this, you know, get him on there on there.

[00:16:08] June Diane Raphael: Broadway show and they have to do this quick changes.

[00:16:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Dr. Heller, get him on SNL.

[00:16:14] June Diane Raphael: Listen, I think that the movies telling us, I don’t know about the monsters. The movie is. It’s telling us that because Holly, the character of Holly, was sexually abused by her father, um, at that point, she split into two different personalities.

[00:16:33] Paul Scheer: Got it.

[00:16:34] June Diane Raphael: To protect herself, to protect her psyche and survive, right? Those two personalities, one of those personalities, I don’t know if they started off as evil or not. I, we, we can’t tell, but what we do know is.

[00:16:49] Paul Scheer: One of them is sexualized.

[00:16:51] June Diane Raphael: Sexualized. Yes. But what.

[00:16:52] Paul Scheer: And is that the bathrobe one, the one that’s always in the bathroom?

[00:16:55] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.

[00:16:56] Paul Scheer: Okay.

[00:16:57] June Diane Raphael: But what we do know is that the shrink has sort of taken control of that one. Now, the other big question I have is. What type of psychology is he practicing? What is going on?

[00:17:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Why is she so in his thrall is what I couldn’t figure out because up until the act, the third act of the movie, Dr. Heller is really just a presence on the phone. So we don’t see him controlling her because I think they couldn’t show it.

[00:17:30] Paul Scheer: Well, we don’t, we don’t know because he’s already, he’s always, he’s always in her, her life. He’s maybe.

[00:17:35] June Diane Raphael: I mean, I had questions about him when he was having sex with her in the beginning.

[00:17:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yes, but we didn’t know that was who it was. You know, that was, we just knew that there was a man there. We don’t know until act three.

[00:17:44] June Diane Raphael: Oh no, I knew it was him.

[00:17:46] Jason Mantzoukas: You knew it was the doctor?

[00:17:48] June Diane Raphael: I did know it was the doctor.

[00:17:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, well, how how?

[00:17:53] June Diane Raphael: I don’t know, actually. I’m wondering that myself. I think I, the glasses and then when she went to her mom’s and she said she’s just been with her shrink or something, I was like, Oh, her psychiatrist, her psychologist is having sex with her.

[00:18:08] Paul Scheer: See, you got ahead of the movie, which is great that you have, uh, that you.

[00:18:11] June Diane Raphael: Well, I’ve also got an eye on predators.

[00:18:13] Paul Scheer: So that and I appreciate that.

[00:18:15] Jason Mantzoukas: That’s that’s your uh, that’s your nbc one hour non fiction show right? Eye on Predators.

[00:18:22] Paul Scheer: But I I think it should be said like I got an eye on like it’s like I like you do like it’s like it’s not about the general people. It’s just you got an eye and you you go to malls you go to any place where people are hanging out.

[00:18:35] June Diane Raphael: I would love to do how this get made poll because as soon as I saw him I knew he was Absolutely trouble and absolutely her psychologist.

[00:18:42] Paul Scheer: I felt the way that he was like, kind of going down on her felt like it was doing something.

[00:18:47] June Diane Raphael: Like it was over the skirt.

[00:18:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Was fully a creep. He was definitely a creep. Connected to he’s the therapist, first.

[00:18:55] Paul Scheer: I felt like he was doing something.

[00:18:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Hey, what did you think he was doing?

[00:18:57] Paul Scheer: It just seemed like she was very reacting in a very intense way. I feel like he was, he was doing, I think he hypnotized her to make her feel like he’s a great sex partner.

[00:19:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, you think there’s so much happening in this movie, but that you think they just didn’t name check hypnosis was part of it?

[00:19:11] Paul Scheer: Yeah. I think that he was like, he’s like, you know what, I’m gonna hypno, I’m gonna hypnotize her to kill people. But I’m also gonna tell her like, I’m also really good at sex. So every time I touch her, she’s gonna be like basically like, coming at all times.

[00:19:21] June Diane Raphael: You know what? I do agree with you though. Her reaction to what was happened was incongruous to what was happening.

[00:19:27] Paul Scheer: That’s what I’m talking about.

[00:19:28] June Diane Raphael: A lot of over the skirt.

[00:19:30] Paul Scheer: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. Now, here’s the thing when Drew Barrymore kills her mom in that next scene I just want to point out one thing that I found to be so funny. She stabs her hard like there’s no blocking is like BAM BAM BAM It’s like four hard stabs right feels like right to the heart ready to go. That mom is able to launch herself across the room, throw herself across the table, exploding a lamp, then get up from that and then throw herself into a glass table. I’m like, this is moviemaking. Bring back the more people falling through plate class tables and exploding lamps. I need to see that.

[00:20:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. Sell it. Everybody’s selling it hard. And it does feel cathartic in a certain way to watch Drew Barrymore kill her mother, who is, who did such a shit job.

[00:20:21] June Diane Raphael: I was like, get her.

[00:20:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:20:24] Paul Scheer: By the way, when did Mulholland Drive come out? Because either.

[00:20:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Mulholland Drive, hmmm.

[00:20:31] Paul Scheer: 2001.

[00:20:32] Jason Mantzoukas: 1999?

[00:20:33] Paul Scheer: Nope, 2001.

[00:20:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay, 2001.

[00:20:34] Paul Scheer: So I guess in my opinion, I’m like, was David Lynch a fan of this and did he scrib any of this for Mulholland Drive? Because there are elements in it that make me go, huh.

[00:20:43] June Diane Raphael: That’s interesting.

[00:20:44] Paul Scheer: Because it feels like they’re in the same apartment complex.

[00:20:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, that’s funny. That’s funny. Um, I like, I love all of the, all of the noir markers, all the femme fatale costuming and stuff like that. I love how much they’re playing with all of those elements and everybody’s doing a great job executing the beats of a Classic noir, which I really know.

[00:21:05] June Diane Raphael: I want to spend roughly the next 40 minutes or so talking about the lady writer.

[00:21:12] Jason Mantzoukas: The scenes at Victor’s cafe, Elizabeth.

[00:21:15] Paul Scheer: My gosh.

[00:21:15] June Diane Raphael: Elizabeth, we have to open with her with a toothpick in her mouth because.

[00:21:20] Jason Mantzoukas: My favorite part is she’s. And I, and I wrote it down before she even said it. She’s listening to the conversation about the two real estate agents who are fucking, everybody that they show apartments to or houses to. It was making me laugh so hard.

[00:21:34] June Diane Raphael: Not just fucking those guys, their clients, but also tying them up like, oh, oh yeah. A manner of things going on.

[00:21:40] Jason Mantzoukas: On the sec, on the sectional, like specific to both the men and the houses that they’re selling. It was perfect.

[00:21:46] Paul Scheer: I mean, that’s a movie right there. Let’s play a little clip of her.

[00:21:48] Movie Audio: It’s one of the vampires, white and female. The other vampire’s, black and male, got an interracial. Buddy, cop, vampire, love story. It’s great.

[00:21:55] Ellie, do you speak any German?

[00:21:57] Patrick, you know I do. Patrick, do you even remember anything about me?

[00:22:00] What does doppelganger mean?

[00:22:02] It’s great. It’s high concept. We’re going to make a kajillion dollars on this. It’s hip. It’s now it’s happening. Hang on a second. Here we go. Doppelganger, the ghostly double of a living person that haunts its flesh and blood counterpart. Cool.

[00:22:15] Paul Scheer: She is awesome. And she is somebody who is constantly dumping new information. Like I didn’t realize that they were ever together, her and the screenwriting buddy, like until the end.

[00:22:25] Jason Mantzoukas: No

[00:22:25] June Diane Raphael: Or that they were. Actually rewound that scene.

[00:22:28] Paul Scheer: Okay. What did you, what are you getting?

[00:22:32] June Diane Raphael: I loved their relationship and I was like, Oh no, wait a second. She had feelings for him. And I think what she was saying is that he abandoned her as a writing partner and he hasn’t cared about her feelings.

[00:22:44] Paul Scheer: Uh, okay.

[00:22:46] Jason Mantzoukas: I don’t. I think she says, and she says, I thought she was saying something to the effect of, and shame on me for thinking you were going to get your act together and we would give it another shot, you know, and you are saying that is.

[00:22:59] June Diane Raphael: I think that’s right in terms of writing their vampire movie.

[00:23:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay, maybe I thought it was that they had had a previous romantic partnership and that’s why when the shitty producer comes out. She’s basically like, okay. I’m a slut. You’re a slut. You know, I guess we’re both guilty of Whatever, whatever. I don’t know but you might be right.

[00:23:17] Paul Scheer: Well, then she’s also fucking she’s also fucking that real douchebag of a guy who who goes up to Drew Barrymore is like you’re a real handsome lady.

[00:23:25] June Diane Raphael: I just gotta say Paul before you say anything else.

[00:23:28] Paul Scheer: Please.

[00:23:29] June Diane Raphael: That, that moment you’re describing to me, it was the best moment in the movie. I think that actor is a genius. I don’t know who he is. I thought he was a genius. When he says, you’re, you’re the most handsome woman I’ve ever met. First of all, insane choice of words. Then he says, there’s a beat and he goes, do you like quiche?

[00:23:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Ugh.

[00:23:49] June Diane Raphael: I LOL’d. That guy is a genius.

[00:23:54] Jason Mantzoukas: There. There was definitely stuff that felt like it was improvised or just like.

[00:23:59] Paul Scheer: That party scene and this.

[00:24:00] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. Yes. The Hollywood, the entirety of the Hollywood party scene is hysterical. I loved all of it.

[00:24:08] Paul Scheer: Now I do have a question about that party scene because this is about the doppelganger thing. I want to get into the party scene, but there’s a moment in the party scene where uh, another tool, uh, that we meet who also wants to fuck women up in his bedroom, uh, showing them art pieces.

[00:24:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, that’s the rich guy, the rich producer.

[00:24:24] Paul Scheer: The rich producer guy, uh, accidentally, uh, spills blood wine, uh, on somebody at the party. I mean, the, the, the red, the red wine is, it’s like, It is, it is Texas Chainsaw Massacre level blood. Like it’s red.

[00:24:40] June Diane Raphael: The consistency of it.

[00:24:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, he also spills an amount that no cup could hold.

[00:24:45] June Diane Raphael: And also, you would have to consciously be pouring, pouring and pouring and pouring.

[00:24:52] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s hysterical.

[00:24:53] Paul Scheer: But now here’s the question I have. When that woman gets doused in blood, which is just wine, Drew Barrymore sees that, and then it’s her? And then.

[00:25:05] Jason Mantzoukas: She’s flashing back to killing her mother.

[00:25:08] Paul Scheer: Oh, okay. So that.

[00:25:10] Jason Mantzoukas: Her mother is in a similarly white outfit and she flashes back to killing her mother, her mother being covered in the blood.

[00:25:17] Paul Scheer: Okay.

[00:25:17] June Diane Raphael: So what I think Paul’s asking, which is the question I had as well, which is who in that moment is Drew Barrymore?

[00:25:25] Jason Mantzoukas: Drew barrymore, the murderer. Who, which she did do, she did kill her mother.

[00:25:31] Paul Scheer: But in that moment, she is the doppelganger.

[00:25:33] June Diane Raphael: What was confusing is she, yes, in that moment when she’s dancing, like that’s absolutely the sexy dance of a doppelganger.

[00:25:40] Paul Scheer: Yes.

[00:25:40] June Diane Raphael: And so when she sees the wine and freaks out, I’m like, why are you freaking out? You’re the doppelganger, you’re evil.

[00:25:48] Jason Mantzoukas: I see, I see what you’re saying.

[00:25:49] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:25:50] June Diane Raphael: If you’re Holly Golightly, I understand.

[00:25:52] Paul Scheer: But maybe, maybe the doppelganger is shaken from the sexy dance by the imagery of her mother. Like she’s like, Oh, right. Real world again, calling.

[00:26:01] Jason Mantzoukas: I think, well, I think the, I think the bloody, um, the wine soaked person wakes up Holly Gooding inside of the doppelganger’s dance reverie.

[00:26:12] You know what I mean? Because it’s basically like one of them has the. The is one of them has control and then they’re bouncing back and forth because it’s the same thing when when, uh, after the shower, when she comes in and she and Patrick have sex in the kitchen and then he comes in the next morning, he sleeps on the floor of the. Sex is so good, he sleeps the rest of the night on the kitchen floor, which was a absolutely insane, right?

[00:26:41] Paul Scheer: Because we all wake up just a little bit and.

[00:26:44] Jason Mantzoukas: You can get yourself to at least the couch.

[00:26:46] Paul Scheer: I mean, well, look that he’s doing a lot of work in that one bedroom apartment.

[00:26:50] Jason Mantzoukas: But he goes back to her and says last night was pretty great. And she’s like, I don’t care. I don’t know about that. I didn’t do that. Whatever you do with her is fine, but I don’t want to hear about it.

[00:26:58] Paul Scheer: I had an issue with that scene. By the way, I had a couple issues. June, you’re not going to have the same issue that I am. But I’m going to tell you this much. Um, you know, this is when Drew Barrymore is in that bathrobe. She’s in that bathrobe a lot, right?

[00:27:10] So I imagined that she took a shower early in the day and then I, then we know she took a shower later in the day, cause then the blood shower and then she comes out and I just am like, I’m just thinking about her putting on a wet robe and I’m like, she must be a little bit uncomfortable out there. You know, like, I just felt like, I just felt like, is that comfortable? Get out of a nice shower into a wet robe. I mean, that robe didn’t have enough time to dry.

[00:27:34] June Diane Raphael: Okay.

[00:27:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow. That’s. Did you make that as a note?

[00:27:39] Paul Scheer: I did.

[00:27:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Did you write that down? Like, isn’t that robe wet?

[00:27:43] June Diane Raphael: I do think the whole thing with those types of robes is that they absorb really quickly. Like I don’t know if I’ve ever had the experience of putting on like a wet robe.

[00:27:52] Jason Mantzoukas: Here’s the thing. I don’t put on robes.

[00:27:54] Paul Scheer: I don’t do robes either.

[00:27:56] Jason Mantzoukas: I’m a no robe guy.

[00:27:57] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, because robes are for women and children. I don’t ever want to see a man in a robe except for Matt McConkey who wears one quite well.

[00:28:05] Jason Mantzoukas: I live straight from towel to clothes.

[00:28:08] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, good.

[00:28:09] Jason Mantzoukas: That’s what we’re doing.

[00:28:10] Paul Scheer: Me too. Yeah, I just, I just, I just felt like, you know, like he’s going to be touching up on her and that robe is all damp and he’s going to be like, it’s a damp mess, you know.

[00:28:18] Jason Mantzoukas: Honestly, it shouldn’t the robe be covered in blood from the blood shower?

[00:28:22] June Diane Raphael: I don’t, where did that blood come from?

[00:28:26] Paul Scheer: Her mind.

[00:28:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Also, also, there’s a scene in there where in the mirror, we see like the monster’s reflection that.

[00:28:34] Paul Scheer: That is malignant.

[00:28:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Like that’s the little, that’s the malignant reflection. And that’s where I was like, now, what, what is this? What are we supposed to believe from this? Isn’t it enough that she is a bifurcated, you know, person? Does it also mean that she is, like, monstrous in some way? I couldn’t figure that out.

[00:28:53] June Diane Raphael: This is like, this brought me back to, you know, the 90s and horrors and thrillers, like mental illness, any sort of disorder. And, and, you know, homosexuality used to be listed as a mental illness, but it was, it was horrific. It was scary and it was the monster.

[00:29:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes, for sure.

[00:29:13] June Diane Raphael: And so that’s the movie.

[00:29:15] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, Basic Instinct and Fatal Attraction are both examples of like a person who is somehow has mental illness becoming a murderer, you know, and and part of it being sex.

[00:29:27] Paul Scheer: I mean look, her mental illness manifests as two distinct, uh, like creatures that are battle like mental illness is literally two creatures inside of her body, battling it out for supremacy while at the same time, the other guys fucking around with it too. I mean, that the other guys.

[00:29:48] June Diane Raphael: The other thing is like the shrink in this movie, mental illness is the monster, but also like the cure is also monstrous. So there’s you can’t win in the 90s. If you have any.

[00:30:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Bad people on both sides.

[00:30:02] Paul Scheer: Yes, exactly. I’m so glad someone said it.

[00:30:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, I’m willing to say it. There’s bad people on both sides. Um, yeah, yeah, because and it’s like and it’s like the it’s interesting because it’s like when, when, when um, Drew Barrymore’s character goes through the tra, we have this whole pretty great scene in which it is revealed that it’s Dr. Heller and we’re in the murder house and there’s all of the mannequins with all of his different masks and disguises and all the. Everything’s clicking into place and you’re like, Oh, it’s the doctor. At first I was like, is it the brother? Is it the, who is going to be behind all of these things in that way that it’s, you know, in Basic Instinct, you think it’s Sharon Stone, but it’s not.

[00:30:45] It’s, um, it’s what’s her name? Who’s revealed to be? That’s always the thing. It’s Jean Triple Horn. It’s Jean Triple Horn. Oh, okay. So when all that happens, I’m like, okay, it’s Dr. Heller. He’s been behind it the whole time. He got her to murder her mother, blah, blah, blah. And then nope, he dies. And instead she turns into two different monsters that look like aliens that look tall.

[00:31:05] They look like Kaminoans from the Star Wars universe. They look like they’re making their, they’re building the clone army, except that all their skin has been removed. It was so bizarre.

[00:31:15] June Diane Raphael: The other thing about the aliens is that there were no distinguishing features between the two of them. So, after we’ve spent so much time with these two very different doppelgangers, we, uh, you know, two different people and personalities, then they’re, the real essence of them is exactly the same. Although I guess that’s what the nuns slash sex phone operator told us in that speech of hers.

[00:31:44] Paul Scheer: By the way, guys, I just don’t want, you know, I know that we probably, you know, we’re Hollywood. We’re Hollywood elite. And, uh, and I always as a Hollywood elite, you know, we have access to a lot of different things. And if you guys want, maybe we could all go in together on this, which is the full size doppelganger special effects prop. And when you look at this full size, uh, it, uh, well, yeah, you know, it’s going to be an auction, so, you know, it’s going to be, we’ll put the link to this in our show listing.

[00:32:10] June Diane Raphael: Go back to the full link. I just want to see the alien for a second. What?

[00:32:13] Paul Scheer: Well, you keep on saying alien.

[00:32:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.

[00:32:17] June Diane Raphael: Jason said it. And then I said it too.

[00:32:19] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, I wrote it in my, um, I wrote it in my notes first as, is this an alien? Okay, now did any of you notice and I have to imagine it’s part of it, although I’m not tracking it at all. Patrick’s apartment Patrick and Holly’s apartment is covered. The walls are covered in like clippings from Newspapers and tabloids and all this stuff and a number of them are featuring a demon character at first I thought oh is he without us knowing it is this gonna come at the end. Is he?

[00:32:55] In part of his movie that’s about a buddy cop vampire love story is part of his movie going to intersect with these monsters and these things because he’s tuned into all of the clippings that he has taped to his wall. Are about supernatural demon forces that are evil.

[00:33:14] Paul Scheer: He’s willing to believe her because he’s open to that as a human being, and that’s why he’s going to go the extra distance because he knows, he knows something’s up.

[00:33:22] The minute she disappears, which by the way, I still don’t understand. He’s at lunch.

[00:33:26] Jason Mantzoukas: Behind the bus?

[00:33:27] Paul Scheer: Yes. She disappears. And like, and I understand that it’s like a noir thing where it’s like, Oh, I saw you in the street, the bus passes and you’re gone.

[00:33:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Especially when you realize she’s a middle aged man. Especially when you realize that’s Dr. Heller. How did he move? He’s gotta move quick.

[00:33:40] Paul Scheer: And then, but yet when he comes home, he goes, were you out there? She’s like, no, I didn’t leave the house. I didn’t leave the house. It seems like you might have left the house the way that you’re.

[00:33:48] Jason Mantzoukas: But I don’t think she did.

[00:33:49] Paul Scheer: Okay. So she’s being honest, even though she’s seeming like she’s lying,

[00:33:52] Jason Mantzoukas: I think she didn’t. I think that is in fact, Dr. Heller.

[00:33:56] Paul Scheer: Okay.

[00:33:56] Jason Mantzoukas: Um, uh, that being said, boy, what I have loved it if we cut to an angle that allowed for us to see him sprinting alongside the bus, which is the only way he could have disappeared.

[00:34:06] June Diane Raphael: But there are times where it does like this. So the scene, you know, Paul, where you were troubled about her wet towel. Uh, her wet robe, sorry. I was troubled because I couldn’t tell, she seemed so upset that he was implying that she had sex with him the night before, but it was, the energy of that performance to me was like, she knew she did.

[00:34:30] Jason Mantzoukas: She I think, wait a second, you’re, you’re saying, I’m sorry, June, in the morning after scene?

[00:34:34] June Diane Raphael: Yes, in the morning after scene.

[00:34:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay.

[00:34:36] June Diane Raphael: That she knew she did.

[00:34:37] Jason Mantzoukas: I think she knows, she knows she did, but it’s the other, it’s the, she knows, she thinks it’s the doppelganger.

[00:34:43] June Diane Raphael: Right. She thinks it’s the doppelganger, but the implication is that she doesn’t have any recollection of it.

[00:34:51] Paul Scheer: No, the doppelganger fully takes over.

[00:34:53] June Diane Raphael: So okay, so she’s just assuming with context clues. That she had sex with.

[00:34:58] Paul Scheer: Well, she knows. She knows.

[00:35:00] June Diane Raphael: Well, how does she know?

[00:35:01] Paul Scheer: Well, she, cause he’s like, Ah, last night was great. She’s like, Oh, whatever, you filthy. And they didn’t seem like they were having filthy sex. It just felt like they were having like, pretty chaste.

[00:35:08] Jason Mantzoukas: I mean, it was on the kitchen floor.

[00:35:12] June Diane Raphael: In next to like, cats?

[00:35:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Of a disgusting apartment.

[00:35:14] Paul Scheer: And that apartment was disgusting. Thank God she cleaned it up.

[00:35:18] June Diane Raphael: Let me ask you, who killed the cat, Nathan?

[00:35:21] Paul Scheer: Oh, I think it’s the FBI agent.

[00:35:23] Jason Mantzoukas: The FBI agent is Dr. Heller.

[00:35:25] Paul Scheer: Right, right. By the way, that is my favorite scene in the whole movie.

[00:35:29] Movie Audio: My name is Stanley White. I’m a special agent with the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

[00:35:33] The FBI? What do you want?

[00:35:34] Is Holly Gooding living with you?

[00:35:36] Yes, she’s living with me. She’s a roommate, a tenant. I’m running a, running a It’s illegal. Wait, can we work something out?

[00:35:44] Are you doing her?

[00:35:45] What?

[00:35:46] Are you fucking her?

[00:35:48] That’s a little personal, don’t you think?

[00:35:52] Maybe it is. Did you realize, of course, that your girlfriend is the prime suspect in the murder of her mother?

[00:36:02] The murder of her mother?

[00:36:03] About six months ago in New York. People saw her enter the building, go up in the elevator and knock on her mother’s door. A little later, her mother was dead. There was no one else in the apartment except the two of them. That’s an open and shut case, right? She came up with some weird mumbo jumbo bullshit alibi and got off. Now we know she did it, but she walked.

[00:36:24] You know, I don’t need to think about this. I’m just gonna go.

[00:36:26] I’m not finished, asshole!

[00:36:29] Paul Scheer: Alright. That scene is wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Like, first of all, I realized what they had to do is they, I was like, why is it so weirdly ADR’d? Like, cause they need to hide this character’s voice. And at one point when Drew Barrymore goes into the hospital to visit her brother, She’s like, I would like to see my brother, please.

[00:36:48] Please let me see my brother. And it’s like, so weird.

[00:36:52] June Diane Raphael: I’d like to see him.

[00:36:54] Paul Scheer: And I was like, wait, wait. I said, first of all, I gave credit to Drew Barrymore. I was like, cool. I like that she’s like picking a different voice for the doppelganger, but it was a little

[00:37:03] Jason Mantzoukas: What I kept wondering was did they ADR the Dr. Heller actor vocally.

[00:37:09] Paul Scheer: Well, that’s that’s what i’m singing because they wanted to they wanted to put you off the set I feel like they really wanted to make the voices.

[00:37:16] June Diane Raphael: I didn’t know what was going on.

[00:37:18] Paul Scheer: I mean and that by the way that scene was like that felt to me and I mean this with the highest compliments like a porn Like, I was like, oh, we’re about to get into a porn scene, like the, the, the style of, like, lighting the, the, the special agent scene, the one where it’s like, yeah, get over here, no, take off your pants, you know, there was like.

[00:37:38] Jason Mantzoukas: This scene, this scene has, this scene has a line that my friends and I would then quote for years afterwards, which is you scratch my back, I lick your balls.

[00:37:49] June Diane Raphael: Why did I miss that?

[00:37:52] Paul Scheer: That’s a great line.

[00:37:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Because at first it starts totally normal. You scratch my back, I lick your balls. It’s fucking nuts. These movies, we genuinely enjoyed the way that we are enjoying it now. Like my friends and I would watch so many of these crazo movies, uh, in a big group in the house we had. And this, the, the, you scratch my back. I lick your balls is so fucking funny to me. And when they happened in the movie, I had forgotten it was from this movie. And it was like a, it was like taking a bite of Proust’s Madelines and remembering my past. It was fascinating.

[00:38:29] June Diane Raphael: I love that.

[00:38:30] Paul Scheer: The scene that got me or the moment that got me in that scene, he’s like, are you fucking her? Like it’s like three little slaps, but it’s like, Oh, it’s like, I can’t even do it justice. It’s so funny the way he slaps him across.

[00:38:44] June Diane Raphael: Because if you’re, if you’re this doctor, why doesn’t he kill Michael right away?

[00:38:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Wait, who’s Michael?

[00:38:51] June Diane Raphael: I mean, not Michael. What’s his?

[00:38:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, you mean the roommate? Patrick

[00:38:54] June Diane Raphael: Patrick. Sorry.

[00:38:55] Jason Mantzoukas: I see. I see. I see.

[00:38:56] June Diane Raphael: Why doesn’t he kill Patrick right away? Because if he’s so obsessed with her, like he does know that he’s fucking her. So.

[00:39:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Who’s in the van? Who’s the guy smoking a cigarette? It’s always a bad guy smoking a cigarette.

[00:39:08] Paul Scheer: I believe that’s him.

[00:39:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Who is that? Is that the doc? Is that Dr. Hell?

[00:39:11] June Diane Raphael: It’s gotta be the doctor.

[00:39:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay.

[00:39:12] June Diane Raphael: If you, if you wonder who anyone is in this movie, it’s. It’s Dr. Heller.

[00:39:16] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, I guess you’re right.

[00:39:19] Paul Scheer: Why does the doctor keep all of his masks on full mannequins?

[00:39:23] Jason Mantzoukas: Full mannequins.

[00:39:24] Paul Scheer: Like, it’s like, it’s not the, you don’t need to keep everything on a mannequin.

[00:39:28] Jason Mantzoukas: And it was so funny too, because they’re like, you know what, the audience isn’t going to get it. So when we show each mannequin, we’ll put in, we’ll drop in audio of what that character sounded like, so we can.

[00:39:38] June Diane Raphael: Here’s the crazy thing though, because I thought a lot about this in the last half hour. Isn’t just putting on again. I just have to question where did he leave his first of all, did he leave his practice? Did he, because to sink in this amount of money to costumes and, but they’re not just costumes. He’s not buying the clothes.

[00:40:03] Paul Scheer: Right. He is creating distinct. Maybe he’s got doppelgangers too.

[00:40:07] June Diane Raphael: Well, he is stepping into full suits of that have weight and body to them and masks that are connected and full skin suits.

[00:40:19] Paul Scheer: What if it’s like, this is like, all right, so I’m just looking over. So you want to be, uh, through, uh, auditioning, you’re, you’re going to be, uh, one of the costume designers or makeup designers on, uh, on Terminator 2. What did we do before this? Uh, well, there’s a professor. There was a, uh, therapist I used to work for and created multiple personalities. Oh, for what? Well, you want to take money from a young girl, but oh, great. Okay.

[00:40:39] June Diane Raphael: Now, is that what he wanted to do?

[00:40:41] Paul Scheer: Yes. He wanted that money.

[00:40:43] Jason Mantzoukas: He wanted that money and he seems to also be sexually obsessed with her.

[00:40:47] Paul Scheer: But he’s already having sex with her.

[00:40:50] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes, that’s true.

[00:40:51] June Diane Raphael: I don’t know though. Well, I don’t know. Maybe he just did. Maybe he was just after the money.

[00:40:57] Jason Mantzoukas: And that’s what he says, that’s what he says at the end, she’ll go away for murder.

[00:41:02] Paul Scheer: I think he doesn’t want anyone else to have her and he wants her money.

[00:41:06] June Diane Raphael: And he has power of attorney over her estate?

[00:41:09] Paul Scheer: You know, that’s how it goes. You always give it to the therapist. Always get the therapist right in line.

[00:41:18] Jason Mantzoukas: Holy shit, it really is. It’s so bizarre that the music at the dance part, when she’s dancing alone, the music, the song appears to be called Sensual Evening. Uh, those are the lyrics that I wrote down. It was absolutely nuts. I loved Sally Kellerman as the ex nun now.

[00:41:36] June Diane Raphael: Okay.

[00:41:37] Jason Mantzoukas: Phone sex or escort service. I couldn’t figure out. A: business is booming.

[00:41:44] Paul Scheer: Oh, I mean, and by the way, everyone’s got to show up to that phone sex world. Like they, like, there’s not enough to just have the line like fed into their house. It’s like, got to go to work and they’re all like behind cubicles.

[00:41:56] June Diane Raphael: Got to get dressed for casual and go to work. And here’s the thing. Here’s why business is booming. I mean, first of all, like it’s, this is the recession proof type of business, you know, oldest, oldest business in the world, but.

[00:42:09] Paul Scheer: Well, I wouldn’t say that. Phone sex.

[00:42:11] June Diane Raphael: Well, just, I’m talking about just sex work in general, but she has, and I really tip my hat to her, she has rented a giant office space in a really run down area. And I imagine just redid it and that that monthly rent is quite low and her overhead is quite low and she is just raking it in.

[00:42:39] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, we also, this movie takes place in a world in which that apartment that they are living in is $420 a month.

[00:42:45] June Diane Raphael: Right. That’s right.

[00:42:46] Paul Scheer: Yeah. I mean, and that guy think about that can’t, and that guy can’t even make. Right. By the way, that guy. I’m going to say I like him, but he, he’s doing the kind of a dirty deed there by, by putting his apartment up for rent and just being like, Hey, so I will just stay in the living room and you get the bedroom and we can share the bathroom.

[00:43:02] June Diane Raphael: Shady.

[00:43:02] Paul Scheer: It’s so shady.

[00:43:05] Jason Mantzoukas: But I don’t think it’s like, I don’t think he’s trying to like. I don’t think he’s being a predator.

[00:43:09] Paul Scheer: I don’t think he’s being a predator.

[00:43:10] Jason Mantzoukas: I don’t think he’s trying to attract people in a predator way. I think he’s just like, but in a, yes, he’s, he’s lied about what’s available and is, is, is dishonest.

[00:43:18] Paul Scheer: In a movie like this though, we are also presented with two characters that seem like the worst people. She gets out of a cab and she’s like, can you stay here? While she goes to look at an apartment, and then she doesn’t seem to have any eye on the time for, like, looking at that apartment. She knows, like, I’m gonna decide on this apartment within five minutes. She’s like, she left her bags in the car.

[00:43:40] Jason Mantzoukas: In the cab, yeah.

[00:43:41] Paul Scheer: Like, it’s like, hard to come by a cab? And, like, I just feel like, until we get that, I’m like, I don’t. I disrespect her for that. And then we get this guy disrespecting him for putting his apartment up. Like, I don’t want to be with any of these people.

[00:43:51] Jason Mantzoukas: What’s interesting is, at the end of the movie, Patrick never has a scene in which he, upon entering the murder house and realizing the events of the movie’s plot, he never says, Oh. All but two people I’ve met in the last however many weeks were all the same person?

[00:44:10] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:44:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Like, almost everybody in his life is revealed to be Dr. Heller in some way, shape, or form.

[00:44:16] June Diane Raphael: Also, though, I mean, I did question his mental acuity. When he’s in his own apartment, a plumber arrives, we’ll find out later, that’s Dr. Heller, and says, like, there’s a leak, your neighbor’s complained, and then he, let’s him in. And then the guy just says, I’ll let myself out. Like, please go. And he’s like.

[00:44:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Nothing else happens. Couldn’t figure that out. I know.

[00:44:39] June Diane Raphael: Now here’s my question though. What did that guy do? What was Dr. Heller doing in the apartment at that time?

[00:44:47] Jason Mantzoukas: Keeping an eye on things or. Or maybe continuing to place her under a further hypnosis?

[00:44:52] Paul Scheer: I have a feeling that Dr. Heller wanted her to come out to L. A. and kill her brother. But then she met this guy who actually takes an interest in her and starts pulling one doppelganger away from the other and creating this kind of friction.

[00:45:05] Jason Mantzoukas: I don’t think so.

[00:45:06] Paul Scheer: No?

[00:45:06] Jason Mantzoukas: I think, I’m sorry, I don’t think so. Only because I think his plan is she goes to L. A. He kills the brother. She is arrested and imprisoned for it. What he wants is for her to be found guilty of one of these murders. That’s what he’s saying. He’s tried to get her to be set up to take the fall for her mother’s murder to take the fall for the brother’s murder.

[00:45:28] He wants her to be. She did, but she was not, um, she was not put in prison for it. So when he at the end, he seems to be saying She’ll go to prison. I’ll get the money. That’s been the plan all along, I think.

[00:45:43] June Diane Raphael: Can I just ask, though?

[00:45:44] Paul Scheer: Sure.

[00:45:44] June Diane Raphael: Why didn’t she go to prison for her mother’s murder? How did she get off?

[00:45:50] Jason Mantzoukas: I don’t know. I feel like there’s an explainer in there somewhere, but I don’t remember it.

[00:45:53] Paul Scheer: The many witnesses. The other thing about this movie, too, is there’s so many dream sequences where I’m like, Did that whole thing happen? Did he dream it?

[00:46:01] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:46:01] Paul Scheer: Because he also.

[00:46:02] Jason Mantzoukas: When she, like, like also Patrick’s having dreams about her being, uh, crucified? Which is really interesting. He’s having a religious dream about her where she’s Christ like, which is very bizarre. Um, do you think question, do you think that Dr. Heller knows that the, that Holly Gooding can transform into a big worm? Do you think he knows that the big worm is part of her whole thing? Has he ever seen the big worm?

[00:46:31] Paul Scheer: I feel like he pushed her to the big worm. It’s like, you know, we all got the big worm inside of us, but.

[00:46:37] June Diane Raphael: You’re absolutely right, Paul, we all.

[00:46:40] Paul Scheer: He broke her. It’s literally showing this therapist breaking her.

[00:46:45] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s a scathing indictment of mental mental health, uh, services.

[00:46:49] Paul Scheer: By the way, I.

[00:46:51] Jason Mantzoukas: This is a Scientology. I wouldn’t be surprised if Scientology underwrote this movie.

[00:46:57] June Diane Raphael: But you don’t want to see my big worm. Like that’s the other thing is like. You don’t, you’ve, you’ve caught a glimpse of that big worm and you don’t want to see it.

[00:47:06] Jason Mantzoukas: And you don’t want to see my big worm and you don’t want to see me turn into two different people.

[00:47:10] Paul Scheer: No, you don’t want to see those.

[00:47:12] Jason Mantzoukas: You don’t want to see me too. It turned into two nonverbal beings. And I did have closed captioning on. Yeah, I did have closed captioning on. And when those characters did make noise, they were credited as monster.

[00:47:27] Paul Scheer: Okay, good. Because by the way, I was like, why is she going? It really is like Frankenstein noises.

[00:47:35] June Diane Raphael: That’s my question though. So just to go back to the worm of it all, I actually didn’t understand why it was a worm. Like why. Why wasn’t it just one body that was split into two?

[00:47:49] Jason Mantzoukas: Great, well, it is a worm that becomes a cocoon, that cracks open, two people come out of it, then those two people come back together and are just the Drew Barrymore character again. Now, that being said, I do believe that one of the monsters does give the finger, I’ll, uh Holly Gooding in the convertible at the end of the monster scene.

[00:48:14] Paul Scheer: Yeah, you definitely need that. Yes. I think that that is definitely in there. And I feel like this is a really interesting movie that they are really seeding it. Cause everybody knows, uh, people who like body horror love Breakfast at Tiffany’s. Um, but there is a, there is this thing when I was actually, I was caught up in, in kind of more of the, that love story between the two of them. Uh.

[00:48:34] Jason Mantzoukas: The two monsters?

[00:48:35] Paul Scheer: Oh, well the two, I mean.

[00:48:36] Jason Mantzoukas: I’m just kidding.

[00:48:37] Paul Scheer: But wait, but by the way, When they come back together, is that part of his dream or is that real?

[00:48:43] June Diane Raphael: Oh God, at the funeral?

[00:48:45] Paul Scheer: Well, because he, she comes back together. The cops are like, everybody get in there. And then she’s bleeding. Then we cut to the funeral and he’s standing behind the casket, the traditional place where most people stand during mourning behind and holding it ready to go. Um, and then he.

[00:48:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Seems as though in his dream, he and Elizabeth are pallbearers. I’m not sure what she’s doing.

[00:49:03] Paul Scheer: Yeah, I have no idea. And then.

[00:49:04] June Diane Raphael: You don’t think she’d be a pallbearer? I mean, there’s only so many people they know in town.

[00:49:08] Paul Scheer: Well, that’s, I guess, I mean, that’s also why they, I mean, this is the budget coming in here, by the way, my favorite budget cut scene is they’re sitting around eating and she’s holding a big knife. Drew Barrymore holds a big knife recklessly throughout the film, but at one part, she’s like, do you want more bread? And she’s, and she’s got this knife and it’s like, uh, yeah, I’ll have more bread. And like, clearly that’s the only thing they could really, really have on set. Like, did she make the bread?

[00:49:34] Jason Mantzoukas: But he also, he also at one point, she comes into the kitchen when, when the scene that eventually ends up with them having sex, he is offering to make her toast.

[00:49:44] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:49:44] June Diane Raphael: Oh God, they’re carb loading. Were they running a marathon?

[00:49:48] Jason Mantzoukas: They’re broke. They’re broke.

[00:49:50] June Diane Raphael: I forgot what I was going to say. Oh, speaking of knives, one of my favorite scenes was when, uh, Elizabeth lady writer with the toothpick, um, when she is in the apartment, she’s so upset that all this has gone on and she picks up the bloody knife from the cabinet.

[00:50:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Like a true murder weapon. She finds a clue.

[00:50:12] June Diane Raphael: She finds it, sees it. It looks like identifies it right away as like the murder weapon picks it up and then is like, why am I holding this?

[00:50:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, and then he says that wasn’t there before as if because it was deep in the closet. I’m like, he definitely wasn’t checking the closet earlier like who knows.

[00:50:34] June Diane Raphael: Plumber brought over. I don’t know the time.

[00:50:36] Paul Scheer: This is what I’m saying.

[00:50:37] June Diane Raphael: I was like, sweetie, just put it back.

[00:50:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, maybe that’s because the plumbers. Dr. Heller, maybe it is.

[00:50:43] Paul Scheer: That’s what I’m thinking. I think that this doctor was doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes to like, yeah, to kind of, to goose the doppelganger, I don’t know why he made the doppelganger. I mean, did he make the doppelganger, like, dance sexy like that, like, at the party?

[00:50:58] Jason Mantzoukas: What’s so interesting is, like, make a doppel. It’s like, the movie wants us to believe that the doppelganger is two individual people, two corporeal beings when it is just really two, two personalities inside of, uh, or two identities or whatever. I, I, listen, I know I’m not using the correct terminology, so please don’t come at me.

[00:51:18] Paul Scheer: Well, by the way, I’ll give you the correct terminology. So there is a, uh, it’s called a DID or, uh, it’s called disassociative identity disorder is previously known as MPD, multiple personality disorder is characterized by the presence of at least two distinct and relatively enduring personality states, according to the DSM five early childhood trauma around five or six years old places someone at risk of developing D I. D. Now there’s no correlation between D I. D. and vanishing twins.

[00:51:45] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I had a vanishing twin.

[00:51:48] Jason Mantzoukas: Whoa. What is, I don’t even know this term.

[00:51:50] Paul Scheer: That’s why I gave you that good enough pause.

[00:51:52] June Diane Raphael: That’s interesting. So a vanishing twin, a lot of times if people have cyst or something that they need to get removed and they’ll, the doctor will take it to their biopsy it, and then they’ll be like, Oh, there’s teeth and hair. Okay.

[00:52:07] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s like a, yes, that’s a malignant, that’s a bezoar.

[00:52:09] Paul Scheer: That’s like malignant.

[00:52:10] June Diane Raphael: So anyway, this is the condition that one of our kids had, not a condition really. I don’t know what, how to describe it. Basically it was pregnant with twins and then one absorbed into the other. Yes.

[00:52:21] Paul Scheer: We just saw it early.

[00:52:21] June Diane Raphael: Well absorbed into, I guess. So.

[00:52:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Co opted, yes. And they get, they get stronger. They get twice as strong, twice as big.

[00:52:29] June Diane Raphael: They don’t really know what happened.

[00:52:30] Jason Mantzoukas: That’s Reacher. Reacher was supposed to be triplets.

[00:52:32] Paul Scheer: By the way, there’s a great interview with the guy who plays Reacher on TV. He’s like, I didn’t like season two. He thought the action was terrible. He’s like, I got in there and I got in there and I told him we got to make this action way better. And he’s like so funny, like so angry about it.

[00:52:47] Jason Mantzoukas: We all love, thank you, Reacher.

[00:52:49] June Diane Raphael: I love Reacher.

[00:52:50] Paul Scheer: I love Reacher too.

[00:52:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Thank you, Reacher.

[00:52:52] Paul Scheer: Thanks, Reacher.

[00:52:54] June Diane Raphael: Thank you, Reacher. Yeah, thank you. I’m glad we finally have a moment to say it.

[00:52:57] Jason Mantzoukas: I’m glad we’re all in agreement.

[00:53:00] Paul Scheer: We love Reacher. We love it, spinoffs. Um, multiple personality disorder is one thing, right? This is a disassociative identity disorder. That’s a thing. But then doppelgangers are another thing. And this movie posits that both are true, right? It’s like it’s doppelgangers.

[00:53:15] June Diane Raphael: No, paul. The movie is not positing that doppelgangers are true. Now I know there’s webbing, and I don’t have the answers to the webbing, but the movie is positing that Drew Barrymore, one, one being, until the end. One being has another personality that’s been developed because of trauma.

[00:53:38] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:53:38] June Diane Raphael: That she’s going in and out of. The doppelganger that the movie refers to is Dr. Heller.

[00:53:47] Paul Scheer: Right, but that’s still a doppelganger. That is a, that is a, uh, person who haunts.

[00:53:52] Jason Mantzoukas: For the majority of the movie, especially in the moment when he sees Drew Barrymore on the street, following him in her noir gear calls home. And we see Drew Barrymore is at home, you know? So we know there’s two Drew Barrymore. So the movie wants us to believe there’s two corporeal versions of the same person, you know what I mean?

[00:54:12] Paul Scheer: So he’s chasing the Doppelganger, but what he really should like.

[00:54:15] Jason Mantzoukas: But what’s strange, I want to say what is strange is though, and that is a good bit of confusion for a while, and then it’s revealed, oh, all along there is no Doppelganger, it’s Dr. Heller. Uh oh, Dr. Heller’s dead, JK, she’s splitting now into two distinct people, so now there are two beings.

[00:54:35] June Diane Raphael: That’s where things get crazy.

[00:54:37] Jason Mantzoukas: I don’t know!

[00:54:38] June Diane Raphael: That’s where things get interesting, yeah. But you’re saying, Paul, that Dr. Heller is the doppelganger. I guess maybe I need to re watch it because Well, but, but I don’t think you can act as a doppelganger.

[00:54:50] Paul Scheer: Oh, okay, so if I dress like you and I follow you around to haunt you, that’s not a doppelganger?

[00:54:57] June Diane Raphael: The way, the way that we are told that doppelgangers exist is that they are day and night. They are the same thing, but the opposite. And I don’t think.

[00:55:07] Paul Scheer: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

[00:55:09] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, and I don’t think Dr. Heller is a true doppelganger. He’s sort of cosplaying as a doppelganger.

[00:55:15] Paul Scheer: Okay, he is just like a master of disguise. Kind of like Dana Garvey’s character, master of disguise, uh.

[00:55:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Pistachio disguise? You think this is a pistachio disguise scenario?

[00:55:25] Paul Scheer: I mean, I’m saying the costumes are pretty good.

[00:55:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh boy. How much of this was filmed on September 11th? Okay. So I think my quest, I, so I, I think it’s easiest to think about this movie, this component of this movie. If you think about it from Dr. Heller’s point of view.

[00:55:40] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I’ve been waiting to jump into it.

[00:55:42] Jason Mantzoukas: He is, he’s dressing up as all of these characters, including Drew Barrymore, including Holly Gooding. He’s dressing up as all of these people in an effort, in a very clear effort for him to perpetrate a crime that involves framing her for murder and making it such that he can benefit financially. So it’s, when, when, when he, when When Holly Gooding’s brother needs to disappear so that his money can be put into the whole fund, he dresses as Holly Gooding, goes to the place, breaks in, and tries to kill the brother.

[00:56:18] June Diane Raphael: He has no interest in. He has no interest, like I think a doppelganger would, in experiencing what it is like to be Holly.

[00:56:28] Jason Mantzoukas: He can’t, because he can’t get close to anybody because it would be revealed. The, the, you know.

[00:56:33] Paul Scheer: He’s just, he’s just, he’s just about machinations. I will say the brother, when they go, oh, he hasn’t talked to since whenever. You know, and when you see him, normally in movies, and I don’t mean to, to throw shade at this performer, but normally in movies, when you see somebody that doesn’t talk, they look catatonic. This brother looked like he had made the decision. Like, I’m not talking, like, he looked very alive in the eyes. Like, he looked like, hey.

[00:56:56] Jason Mantzoukas: I agree.

[00:56:56] June Diane Raphael: Don’t you wish I said something?

[00:56:57] Jason Mantzoukas: But I agree so much so that I was like, well, he’s clearly, like, conscious. So that’s what, for a long part of the movie, I thought the brother was going to be the doppelganger.

[00:57:06] June Diane Raphael: I did too, Jason.

[00:57:07] Jason Mantzoukas: The brother was going to be the, uh, the Norman Osborn dressing up as his sister. You know, and wouldn’t that be interesting? This is a very, you know, psycho coded kind of, um, plot line.

[00:57:18] June Diane Raphael: Well, I also thought though, I mean, I’ve, I felt the same way, like he seemed actually quite with it to the point where I was like, well, has anyone just tried speaking to him?

[00:57:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. He had like a hip haircut.

[00:57:28] June Diane Raphael: Yeah. Like just have you, have you tried?

[00:57:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:57:32] Paul Scheer: They’re like, that’s like a parent going, no, he never talks. And then like all of a sudden he’s like, he’s like the most talkative kid. Yeah. Like the hospital’s not doing the work. I will say, uh, There was one moment that I want to just call attention to. Maybe, uh, two moments. Again, the relationship is where I really fell into it when, um, she goes, Oh yeah, uh, I, my father, did she say I killed my father or my father was killed? No, my brother killed my father, right? He goes, Whoa, Whoa, bad reaction for boyfriend.

[00:58:02] June Diane Raphael: I know, but even here’s the trouble I had with her as a sister, you know, even if my sister killed my dad. In that same scenario, I don’t know if years later I’d say my sister killed my dad. I think what I would say is, there was an accident at my house. My father’s not a good man. And in the, in the course of this freak accident, he fell. My sister was involved and, uh, he died.

[00:58:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Okay, you seem very suspicious.

[00:58:41] Paul Scheer: Yeah, now I’m like, now I feel like there’s definitely foul play.

[00:58:44] Jason Mantzoukas: I feel like the only person I want to talk to now about this crime is you.

[00:58:51] June Diane Raphael: It just seems so harsh. My brother killed my dad. It’s like, well, first of all, you hate your dad. I think.

[00:58:58] Jason Mantzoukas: And what I’m left wondering at the end of the movie is did the brother kill the dad or did she kill the dad at Dr. Heller’s, uh, request?

[00:59:06] Paul Scheer: I think he also has two worms inside of him too.

[00:59:09] Jason Mantzoukas: I just want to read a section of my notes here, if you don’t mind. Oh yeah, the brother lives. The brother lives. Uh, okay. So, um, uh, this is the end of the movie. All of the people he’s met in the movie are Mission Impossible style masks in the old house question mark? And we see two Hollies? Is it the brother? It’s all Dr. Heller. Dr. Heller has been everyone. She’s screaming and covered in goo now.

[00:59:32] She transforms into, all caps, Big Worm? Which splits into two beings? Question mark? WTF? And then I wrote, Thank you. This is good.

[00:59:46] Paul Scheer: I, I love that. Uh, you know, the thing I wrote down too, and I wanted to just get your take on this. Um, this is completely different, but this is a moment in the movie where I got a real cameo that I loved and I jumped out of my seat, Danny Trejo in this movie as a construction, so much fun to see him in this movie. And he’s like, hey, yeah, I’m going to fuck you or whatever he says to her.

[01:00:11] Jason Mantzoukas: He’s like a, he’s like a cat calling her from a construction site.

[01:00:15] Paul Scheer: And, and, uh, and he’s like, if my sister was dressed like that, she would be asking for it. And I’m like, first of all, she’s dressed extremely conservatively.

[01:00:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Pretty sure she’s wearing white tights. She’s wearing white tights numerous times. Times in this movie, June, how do you feel about white tights?

[01:00:29] June Diane Raphael: I don’t feel great about them. I spent my childhood in white tights.

[01:00:32] Jason Mantzoukas: I didn’t like it either.

[01:00:33] June Diane Raphael: They’re very triggering for me.

[01:00:35] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[01:00:35] June Diane Raphael: You know, it’s so interesting. Yeah. She couldn’t be dressed more conservatively. So, so odd, but just to go back to. Just to go back for one second to the phone to the phone sex operation and again I have so few notes for this business and the economics of it all.

[01:00:53] Jason Mantzoukas: I wish we’d gotten more of it.

[01:00:54] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, but the only note I have for her is there seems to be an awful lot of background noise like so many women talking at the same time I wish she could have gotten them in cubicles or something because they are for all full voice.

[01:01:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Also Also, Sally Kellerman appears to be running this organization. She’s like the Queen Bee. But she’s also answering the phone and asking for people’s credit card numbers.

[01:01:22] Paul Scheer: She’s the first person and doesn’t seem like she’s ever taking them down.

[01:01:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, you shouldn’t be picking up the phone. This is like an assistant’s job.

[01:01:28] June Diane Raphael: You know what? I feel like what she couldn’t count on was that they were gonna get those credit card numbers before the calls were transferred over.

[01:01:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Maybe she, uh.

[01:01:37] Paul Scheer: I mean, but also she doesn’t seem to be taking them or, or she’s taking like, it’s also a funny thing. Like I want to get, um, I’m ready to get off. They’re like, uh, give me a credit card. Oh, okay. Great. You have to get, get in the mood again. It’s like, maybe it’s a part of a, you know, a dollar a minute.

[01:01:50] June Diane Raphael: Cards were on file, Paul.

[01:01:52] Paul Scheer: Oh, okay.

[01:01:52] June Diane Raphael: The other interesting thing about her though, is that I don’t know if anyone else noticed that on her, but just behind her on the, on the little sill is a raggedy Ann doll.

[01:02:02] Jason Mantzoukas: I didn’t see that. Oh boy.

[01:02:03] Paul Scheer: The original, the original phone sex. Or the original doppelganger. Ooh. Raggedy Ann and Andy. They’re the same but different.

[01:02:14] Jason Mantzoukas: Two halves of a whole. Um, I also noticed in numerous Scenes when they wanted there to be like a threat or a something, they would just drop thunder in as if it’s constantly, as if it’s constantly thunder and lightning in Los Angeles, which it never does.

[01:02:33] June Diane Raphael: Although, by the way, when they were talking about the Santana winds and the winds, I was like, I’m scared.

[01:02:38] Paul Scheer: By the way, but this is what I’m talking about. This movie does posit supernatural things. She, the wall breaks open in half the, the, the, the window breaks. Like she’s controlling, like when she walks up to the house, the wind is blowing really heavy. It’s like she is in control of the weather.

[01:02:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Something is happening because they also do the thing where they’re like, Oh, is this an earthquake? And he’s like, no, it’s the Santa Ana’s or Oh, no, it’s a construction truck going by. Then it’s the Santa Ana’s later. And it ends with what does appear to be an earthquake where the ground, uh, uh, splits and the, the house, the walls split. And this is a, of course, when she turns into a worm. So, so who knows what’s, this is in the part of the movie where who knows what’s going on and I’m thrilled, you know, I don’t need to know as long as it is this fucking. This is so, so self assured, this bit of filmmaking.

[01:03:29] June Diane Raphael: Confidence.

[01:03:31] Paul Scheer: I mean, it really.

[01:03:32] June Diane Raphael: Confident hand.

[01:03:32] Jason Mantzoukas: She turns into a worm, then she turns into two beings, then she turns back into Drew Barrymore.

[01:03:38] Paul Scheer: Like, the movie is, like, and this is what I do love, and this is what the difference of, like, a good movie, a good bad movie, and a bad bad movie is, like, it’s, this director’s like, yes, there’s no doubt in what I’m trying to do, why it will make sense and I got it.

[01:03:52] And you know what? Uh, and that’s why, and you know, I tell you this much, uh, when you make a movie like this, the stuff lives on forever. And I’m going to invest in this, not just the body, but also, uh, just the full head, the full head.

[01:04:05] Jason Mantzoukas: I mean, it looks like an alien. It looks like it’s supposed to be an alien.

[01:04:09] Paul Scheer: I’m looking at the doppelganger screen.

[01:04:11] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, that’s not the inside of a body. So what is that?

[01:04:14] Jason Mantzoukas: I mean, I don’t look at that and say, Oh, doppelganger.

[01:04:18] Paul Scheer: No.

[01:04:19] June Diane Raphael: I would never say that.

[01:04:20] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s not like a doppelganger is not a demon. It’s not like synonymous with a uh, a devil or a demon or a goblin or.

[01:04:28] Paul Scheer: It should be like a parasite or something. Right. You know? Um, but I mean, I, I’m, I am, I, I, I love this movie. I loved it. And you know, discord, you redeemed yourself. The second place, always the best. It’s like the best picture at the Oscars. It’s like, you know, the one, the runner up is always probably a better movie.

[01:04:45] June Diane Raphael: And the other thing is like, the movie makes certain choices that I really did appreciate. I really enjoyed, you know. The fact that they’re all at that Hollywood party was so much fun. Hollywood party felt like so much like heavy wall to wall carpeting and honestly, older people, right? If anyone else noticed that this is not young, no, not a lot, a conservative amount of like.

[01:05:08] Jason Mantzoukas: Sparsely attended middle aged person, Hollywood party.

[01:05:11] June Diane Raphael: Middle aged people. And it was billed as like a hat. Like Hollywood, you know, young and talented party.

[01:05:18] Paul Scheer: Well, Richard Wolfe is there.

[01:05:20] June Diane Raphael: Richard Wolfe is there. But like, I also loved that he had a, uh, a female writing partner and that’s why I was so bummed and potentially they could have been together. And she was pining.

[01:05:32] Jason Mantzoukas: I wanted that love story so bad in that way though, that the movie is telling us. I feel like June, here’s my question for you. I feel like the movie is telling us that Elizabeth is not an acceptable romantic, uh, interest for our lead character because she has curly brunette hair. That’s a universal symbol for apparently unattractive friend.

[01:05:57] Paul Scheer: That’s friend zone. That is the friendzone if I ever saw one.

[01:06:00] Jason Mantzoukas: It is curly brown hair.

[01:06:02] June Diane Raphael: Well that’s, I think that’s why they also gave her a toothpick.

[01:06:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. Tomboyish almost or something, you know.

[01:06:09] June Diane Raphael: Yeah.

[01:06:10] Paul Scheer: But she still gets it. She’s fucking that other guy. And she doesn’t care.

[01:06:13] Jason Mantzoukas: I wish the movie had been more about them, uh, her, she and Patrick having a history together. Or something. I really, she’s I loved her.

[01:06:26] June Diane Raphael: I loved her character.

[01:06:27] Paul Scheer: I like that idea that Patrick, like, and her are trying to get back together, but then he’s smitten with the Drew Barrymore. Here’s the one thing. We talked about this doctor being a master of disguise, and that’s no doubt. Uh, he definitely knows how to put on a lot of disguises, but I think he’s bad at doing the full body. It’s like, it’s the, he can’t do the Daniel Day Lewis. Yes. He can embody the physical, but he can’t always embody the character. Like when he is a Richard Wolfe, he’s like, Oh, let’s go meet at 10 o’clock, um, at this restaurant. I’ll be late. Why would you just say, let’s meet at 10 and then just don’t show up at 10. They’ll go, let’s meet at 10. I’ll be late. Well, that’s, now that’s suspect two. Well, just tell me when you’ll be there. You, you just told me to meet you. I’ll meet on your time.

[01:07:10] Jason Mantzoukas: But I’m so obsessed with, I hope they get the job. I want them to get the rewrite.

[01:07:15] June Diane Raphael: After all they’ve been through, they gotta.

[01:07:17] Paul Scheer: But is there a rewrite?

[01:07:19] Jason Mantzoukas: No, no, no.

[01:07:20] Paul Scheer: But does Richard Wolfe exist?

[01:07:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.

[01:07:24] June Diane Raphael: No, he doesn’t.

[01:07:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I think he does only because other people in the business seem to know he exists.

[01:07:30] June Diane Raphael: He exists in the world of the movie because he does come in.

[01:07:33] Paul Scheer: Wait a second. What do you mean? I, I thought that he’s created all these characters. So did he like put Richard Wolff away?

[01:07:41] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, now that’s interesting. I mean, if you start pulling at these strings, it’s a real problem, but, but I guess it doesn’t matter. I guess maybe because.

[01:07:51] Paul Scheer: The director’s like, just get them to the worm, they’ll have no more questions if they get to the worm.

[01:07:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah, it all goes away when she becomes a worm. I’m like, oh, I guess anything’s possible.

[01:07:59] Paul Scheer: So yeah, in my mind, he is either killing these people, or he’s tied them up. I mean, we know that he has that mansion, and he’s got the mannequins, but like, it would be great to see if all those people were actually there, like, tied up, like. If they were a captive.

[01:08:13] June Diane Raphael: That’s, I mean, that’s a great question. That who that’s gonna, that we’re gonna need to rewatch.

[01:08:19] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. Big time. Big time. Rewatch.

[01:08:20] Paul Scheer: Now obviously we have opinions about this movie. People out there. I think they agree with us. Uh, it is now time for second opinions.

[01:08:27] Music: [Second Opinions Song] [01:08:53] Paul Scheer: All right, everybody grab your toast with mustard and grape jelly. Uh, it is time to look at some second opinions, 128 reviews, 63 percent are five star. 6 percent are one star. Um, Tim Wells writes,

[01:09:07] “I enjoy Drew Barrymore in this movie, five stars, good computerization.”

[01:09:13] That’s the title. I don’t know what that means. Um, this is the one that I really want to read cause these are reviews are eh, but, uh, this is from letterbox. I love letterbox and, uh, letterbox. The, uh, the user is Meg Alopolis star. So this is the review here.

[01:09:29] “Eh, uh, oh, oh, okay. Well, hmm, alright, uh, nah, no, uh, alright, alright, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, well, I guess, eh, okay, man, ha ha ha ha, whoa, ha ha hey, okay, yeah, totally, okay, ha ha, ha ha, alright man, oh fuck yeah, ha ha, come on man! You know, I’m tellin ya, this is, whoa, ha ha ha, yes, hell yeah.”

[01:10:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, that’s very funny.

[01:10:06] Paul Scheer: That is the review, a four star review.

[01:10:09] Jason Mantzoukas: Just trying to figure out what part of that whole thing is the shower, the blood shower.

[01:10:13] Paul Scheer: Uh, and I love it all, and it’ll follow it up with, uh, Death Valley Girl who writes,

[01:10:19] “My mimic pixie dream girl. Okay. Smiley face.”

[01:10:22] Jason Mantzoukas: Mimic. I think they want it to be manic, but okay.

[01:10:25] Paul Scheer: Mimic because it is a doppelganger. Yeah, so that is right. Okay. Uh, what do we got here? Uh, any other final thoughts? Would you recommend this movie? I, yes. I mean, yes, across the board, right?

[01:10:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Categorically just one, one of the best, one of the best, one of the greats. Uh, truly. I mean, Drew Barrymore becoming one of our most reliable, uh, fantastic people in, in whatever. Whatever she’s in that we’re covering. She’s dynamite.

[01:10:49] Paul Scheer: I mean, Jason, we can talk into it. We gotta get in those Hollywood squares next season. Now. All three of us across.

[01:10:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, that would be great. That would be all. Or all of us in one square.

[01:10:57] June Diane Raphael: Oh, I’d love to do that.

[01:10:59] Jason Mantzoukas: We love you, Drew.

[01:11:00] Paul Scheer: All right. That would be good. I’m sure she’ll let us do that. Um, alright, here’s the deal. We love Drew. Uh, I hope that she, uh, comes on and gives us some more insight on Doppelganger. Um, here’s the thing we’re going on spring tour and, um, we have some interesting news. June.

[01:11:16] June Diane Raphael: There’s yeah, there’s a casting, a casting announcement.

[01:11:19] Paul Scheer: Yes. You want to bring us home, June? Yeah. You tell us.

[01:11:21] June Diane Raphael: Well, yeah, no, I, I, I’m. So excited about this tour, but I have been replaced. I’ve been recast.

[01:11:27] Paul Scheer: This is not a bit. This is not a joke.

[01:11:28] June Diane Raphael: No, this is not a joke. There were some scheduling. I had some scheduling conflicts, allegedly. And, um, Jessica Sinclair has stepped into the role.

[01:11:39] Paul Scheer: That’s right.

[01:11:39] June Diane Raphael: And will be joining Paul and Jason on this tour.

[01:11:42] Paul Scheer: Now, will she be your doppelganger?

[01:11:43] June Diane Raphael: She, yeah. That’s such a great question. And I do think that. I do think that she is going to, well, first of all, she’s taken on a lot of my personality traits. So there has been a very natural sort of morphing, but, um, I, I trust and believe that she will deliver a doppelganger esque performance and show.

[01:12:05] Paul Scheer: Okay. Well, let me just make it clear that June will be with us in LA on 3/21, 3/22 and 3/23, but Jess will be with us in Austin, Denver, Boise, Seattle, San Fran, and Portland on all those days to go to HDTGM.Com to get your tickets. Movies will be announced soon. And here’s the thing people. Uh, hey, people in Boise, get your act together. Let’s buy some tickets here. I’ve, uh, this is, everyone’s like, Come to, come into the middle of country. We came to the middle of country. Boise, Tree Fort Music Festival. You can get a, you can get in if you got a ticket to Tree Fort, or you could just come see us without a ticket to Tree Fort. Just get your tickets.

[01:12:39] Jason Mantzoukas: In case you are in Boise and you think, I don’t want to buy tickets to a music festival. You don’t have to. You can just buy tickets for our show and you can let the music festival know that it can go fuck itself.

[01:12:51] Paul Scheer: That’s right.

[01:12:51] Jason Mantzoukas: We don’t, we don’t need it.

[01:12:54] June Diane Raphael: The other thing I wish we were doing honestly is just doing a little behind the scenes docu series on Paul, Jessica and Jason just on the road.

[01:13:01] Paul Scheer: Well, I don’t have to share a room with Jess like if because you and I share rooms like I like.

[01:13:05] Jason Mantzoukas: No you do. You do.

[01:13:07] June Diane Raphael: No no no she’s a doppelganger. She’s taking over.

[01:13:09] Paul Scheer: This is going to be bad for me.

[01:13:11] June Diane Raphael: Yeah, stupid.

[01:13:17] Paul Scheer: All right, everybody. Uh, that’s an episode of How Did This Get Made. Call in, uh, at 619-PAULASK. Uh, if you have any corrections and omissions or leave them on the discord at Discord.gg/HDTGM.

[01:13:29] Jason Mantzoukas: Disconnect the discord, disconnect the discord. This is my whole thing now, just.

[01:13:37] Paul Scheer: And that’s the t shirt that is available. If we’re going to make a t shirt for this episode, I think we do need a Doppelganger. I mean, maybe that’s a shirt just as Doppelganger.

[01:13:44] Jason Mantzoukas: I think it says doppelganger, but I think it’s got a big worm on it.

[01:13:47] June Diane Raphael: The doppelganger tour. We just rename it.

[01:13:50] Paul Scheer: All right. And with that, let’s get out of here. But before we do just a reminder.

[01:13:55] How Did This Get Made is going on tour a spring tour. We just announced a Toronto date. Yes, we are coming back to Canada. We have a special surprise lined up in San Francisco. Plus in Austin, we might even do a little something fun that I can’t really announce it. We are getting closer. So anyway, you don’t want to miss out on a tour.

[01:14:13] Go to HDTGM. com. Find out everything you need to know. Movies will be announced about a week before the show also. If you’re not watching The Dark Web with Rob Hubel and myself, you are missing out. Last week, I almost poisoned Rob with a sour pickle candy. Yeah. It turned his entire mouth green for two hours.

[01:14:33] We are watching everything from passions to saved by the bell. It is a bunch of fun and completely free. So check out. The Dark Web, just go to Watchthedarkweb. com. You can find links and everything there.

[01:14:46] Jason Mantzoukas: And don’t forget to watch season three of Invincible right now on Amazon Prime. You gotta see what’s happening with Rexplode, guys. Come on!

[01:14:54] Paul Scheer: All right, a big thank you to our producers, Codi Fischer and Molly Reynolds, and our movie picking producer, Avaryll Halley, our associate producer, Jess Cisneros, and our engineer, Casey Holford. And a shout out to our Discord for making this their second movie pick. Jason may say disconnect the discord, but I say plug it back in.

[01:15:13] Now, if you want to join the conversation, uh, and have your name read aloud in a, How Did This Get Made Last Looks episode, you can do that by going to the discord. That’s a Discord.gg/HDTGM. And you can voice your opinion on this episode. What did we miss? What you have in your head that we didn’t have, did you work on the movie?

[01:15:33] Are you a doppelganger anyway, uh, make sure you also pick up a doppelganger shirt in our brand new Teepublic Store.. The links to all of that is on our social media. That’s all for now. Bye bye.