EP. 373.5 — Last Looks: Surf II

 

[00:00:00] Paul Scheer: The Pacific Northwest doesn’t know what hit it. Mr. Rad has an ally with Maurice and, we find out what it’s like to have coffee with Bob Dylan. All this and more on this episode of How Did This Get Made Last Looks, people! Wrap it up!

[00:00:19] Music: [Last Looks Intro Song] [00:00:25] Paul Scheer: Hello, all my story listeners of America. That’s right, SLOA. What’s up? Um. By the way, if you are an SLOA, make sure that you get yourself a sticker, a mug, a t-shirt. We made them after our You Got Served show. And I love the design. It’s a little USA with headphones on. Uh, it’s great. But by the way, who am I?

[00:00:49] I’m Paul Scheer and welcome to How Did This Get Made Last Looks. People, we got so much stuff to get through today, okay, because this is not an episode about me. No, no, no, no. This is about you. Because we’re gonna be hearing about all your corrections and omissions to You Got Served, which I don’t think there could possibly be any, ’cause

[00:01:09] we did such a great job of breaking down every aspect of that film. But I’ll open it up. I will look at it just in case, and I’m so excited. About our guest today, Jason and I are sitting down with a comedy legend, a comedy samurai if you will. Someone who, you might not know his name, but you definitely know his work from Seinfeld and Curb and Bruno and Borat, even Bill Mars Religious, and the A 24 musical Dicks, which I absolutely loved.

[00:01:40] Larry Charles is joining us. He’s gonna talk about the movie I did with him. Uh, he’s also gonna talk about Bob Dylan. Jason and I are gonna really break it down with Larry, who I think if you are a comedy fan, it is a must listen. Now, before we get too far into things, I gotta give a big shout out to War Widow.

[00:01:57] War Widow, you killed it with that opening song. Oh my gosh. I love these songs. I truly do like this is the best part of the show for me. And if you have a song that you wanna bring to us here on Last Looks, we would love, love to have them. Okay? And if you have any Last Look themes, just go to HDTGM.com, right?

[00:02:16] And then you can upload your song right there. We made it even easier for you to upload new songs to the show, but keep them short. Now, people, we are gonna go on a little mini tour now, not just how did this get made, which will be in Vancouver on July 12th. Get your tickets now for a Sylvester Stallone’s Driven.

[00:02:34] But Jason and I are gonna be in Portland and Seattle with Dinosaur. Mary Holland will be there. Carl Tart will be there. Owen Burke, Chad Carter, Seth Morris, Rob Huebel will be in the house. So check us out in Seattle, in Portland, and make sure that if you’re in the Los Angeles area, you are coming to see all of us at Largo.

[00:02:55] On June 26th, we will be at Largo. So come see Dinosaur. Edie Patterson sitting in in La and like I said, on the road, we have a killer crew. Tickets are available dinosaurimprov.com or just go to HDTGM.com. Everything is there. You could even get our tickets for Vancouver. Now, if you haven’t heard our amazing movie producer, Avaryll Halley, is going through some very serious treatments.

[00:03:21] Um, she was diagnosed with brain cancer and she has been overwhelmed by the outpouring of love that everyone has given her in these last few weeks. And you know what? Let’s keep on doing it. That’s right. We want to pump her up. We wanna send her some good vibes. And the best way that you can do that is to send a message to her through, uh, her movie Bitches partner.

[00:03:44] That’s Andrew@MovieBitches.xyz or you can actually send her something in the mail, a little snail mail right to her PO box. Nothing perishable, nothing scented to Avaryll Halley PO Box 641, Agora Hills, California 9 1 3 7 6. Um, I’ve been blown away by what everyone has been doing. Avaryll is such a crucial part of our show.

[00:04:08] We love her so much, and if you can just take 20 seconds outta your day to send an email, take a couple minutes outta your day to send her a piece of snail mail. It would make the world of difference. It’s really boosting her spirits and it makes, uh, we’re just thankful for all the love. So thank you everybody for stepping up now.

[00:04:27] That’s all the plugs I got, so let’s get into it. Last week we talked at length about You Got Served. Well, we had questions and we might’ve even missed a few things. Here’s your chance to set us straight. Fact check us, if you will. It is now time for Corrections and Omissions.

[00:04:41] Music: [Corrections and Omissions Song] [00:04:41] Paul Scheer: Thank you, Cool Skull. I like that name too. Uh, that is a great name. Cool Skull. Uh, let’s go to the Discord, ASG 1982 writes,

[00:04:51] “Are we sure in the, in the rain dance practice, that scene was outside in the rain because it sure looked to be inside a warehouse or something. I mean, if it’s outside in the rain, where is that light that’s hanging coming from?”

[00:05:08] Okay, lemme tell you something. ASG 1982, yes, you got a point. There’s a light in the alleyway, but that is a light that would ha it. It seems like, um, you know, one of those like back alley lights. I just saw the new Karate Kid movie Legends, which was great.

[00:05:22] I think that there are back alley lights. Very Dick Tracy kind of old school lighting. I feel like that’s kind of, uh, Gene Kelly was on a light post that was outside. Okay. There, there, there are lights. There are lights in back alleys. You have to illuminate it somehow. I look, I do believe it’s out in the rain because I don’t think they would make it rain inside.

[00:05:39] Uh, a stage not for this movie. Uh, Dr. Guts 1003 writes,

[00:05:44] “According to Marquee Houston, who played L the movie was originally going to be called Dance and it was gonna star Genuine and Aaliyah. However, after Aaliyah’s untimely death, the film got reworked to what it ultimately became.”

[00:05:58] Well, yeah, Dr. Guts, we know that I didn’t bring it up ’cause we don’t wanna bum us out about Aaliyah, uh, who just was hot off of Queen of the Damned who died very tragically and very young.

[00:06:09] I didn’t wanna bring that up to bring us down. That’s what I do. I don’t need to bring us down, but you did. It’s good information. I appreciate it, but you’re not winning this week. You’re not. You’re not winning by bumming us out. Now Anna writes,

[00:06:23] “I looked up the script and I read the discussion about the $5,000 dance battle and this is what I think happens.”

[00:06:29] Okay? I love it. Anna is getting in to some math.

[00:06:33] “Each team puts up $5,000, so there is $10,000 in the pot and whoever wins gets to keep it all. L and David are putting up the initial 5,000, which they will get back if they win. It’s like the deposit you put down at a hotel, which you get back. If you don’t damage anything, it cancels itself out. That leaves the other 5,000 in profit for the team. L and David are gonna take 3000 to the profit 1500 each, and the rest of the team is have to split the remaining 2000. L and David’s argument is that the, they’ve already put up something on the line. They’ve already put up the 5,000, so if they lose, they’re losing 5,000, that you should get more of the reward because of that. And Sonny thinks they should split the whole 5,000 profit evenly now.”

[00:07:12] Now, lemme tell you, Anna, I was on this page. This is what I was saying. They, they, they need to get, I agree with this. I mean, yes, you explained what I think I was saying very clearly in the show, but maybe I wasn’t. And Sonny, he, he lost a screw there.

[00:07:24] ‘Cause I, I doubt that Sonny is getting an equal split on that other team. Can someone do some research? Can someone figure that out? Was Sonny promised an equal split on the other team? Maybe because he was bringing dance moves, he would upgrade his cut. I would buy that, but I would not buy that if he wasn’t bringing something to the table that was extra.

[00:07:44] Anyway, let’s go to the phones. Liz from Wisconsin.

[00:07:48] Listener: Hey Paul, it’s Liz. Uh, this is about You Got Served, which was listening to the episode and I felt like you might have missed something big and mysterious. Uh, when you talked a lot about Lil Saint and his death and then you were talking about the weird door at the one guy’s house and how there’s this symbol on it and you were theorizing about what that symbol need and you all mentioned the New Orleans Saints logo and why would they have a Saints logo in LA And I was like, Ooh, maybe why are we not coming up with a conspiracy theory that it has something to do with Little Saint? Obviously it doesn’t really, but I still thought that was interesting and I’m mentioning it. Okay, you guys are great. Bye.

[00:08:33] Paul Scheer: Alright, Liz from Wisconsin, first of all, love that you have not seen the movie, but you have a hot take. Honestly, it may sound sarcastic that I’m saying that, but it’s not. This is the kind of correction and omission I want.

[00:08:48] You’re right, we need to have some sort of New Orleans Saints conspiracy theories here. Not just that maybe they rented a house that had a New Orleans Saint logo on it. I’ll tell you, I worked seven years on a football show. Uh, we could never get the logos to any team ever, uh, even when those team members were on our show.

[00:09:07] So I did a little, uh, Googling to figure out what’s going on here. And look, this is a very interesting symbol. Uh, there are a lot of connotations to it. The very general one would be like, it’s a sign of community togetherness. Um, but I. It also, uh, has this historical association with slavery because in the French colony of Louisiana, the fleur de lis was used to brand slaves who attempted to escape as a form of punishment and identification.

[00:09:38] So there’s also, uh, interpretations here as a reminder, uh, never again. Um, so either way it does have some meaning. I don’t know what it does with Little Saint. I mean, unless he’s a little saint, uh, again. More interesting than I thought. Liz, thank you for not watching the movie, but coming in with a hot take.

[00:10:01] Melissa from Connecticut, what do you got?

[00:10:04] Listener: This is Melissa, longtime listener, firsthand caller reaching out from Connecticut. Um, I wanted to touch down on one particular moment slash person of note, so I think you guys are like, oh yeah, I’m that choreographer who was doing the announcing at the final contest featuring Lil Kim or maybe Boba Lil Kim.

[00:10:26] Um, his name is Wade Robinson. He also had the nineties hair thing going with like the tips and all that. Wade Robinson is a cultural touchstone for the late nineties, and here is why. Britney Spears made out with him, and while she was with Justin Timberlake, uh, she revealed this in her tell all book, the Woman In Me at the time, there were a lot of rumors that Cry Me of River, Justin Timberlake’s hit Single was about that relationship.

[00:10:57] But it’s come to be found out that Justin was constantly cheating. Um, so Brittany does, uh, admit that she was dancing with him and kissed him. Hmm. Um, also Wade Robinson, a very good choreographer. He did a ton of NSYNC stuff. Um, Brittany Spear’s, Pepsi commercial, this, that Slave for You music video, which I still know the, um, the move to.

[00:11:20] So I was pretty pumped to see him. This whole movie brought me back. You guys rock. Bye.

[00:11:26] Paul Scheer: Okay. So, um, this is great. We actually did talk about this in the show. We cut a lot of it out because it was just sort of like, uh. We just went off on weird tangents. This was the better way to deliver it. I love it. Yes.

[00:11:39] Uh, I did read that book, or I should say I listened to that book read by Michelle Williams and it’s great. Uh, well, you know what? Honestly, it’s not great. It’s interesting. Uh, Michelle Williams is a great job reading it. I think the book is a little bit, uh, too vague. Anyway, uh, next up, what do we got? Ooh, a good one.

[00:11:58] Billy, tell me.

[00:11:59] Listener: Hi, this is Billy. I was a PA on You Got Served and absolutely that there was body double for Little Kim. I remember we had her for a day and she was crazy late. So they, they pulled a woman out of extras holding and dressed her up as Little Kim. And I guess she’s a method actress because at some point she really became Little Kim walking around, set in a, in a robe, sitting in a director’s chair.

[00:12:27] It was really fascinating to watch her process. Um, also extras, holding, the first AD had to come down and lecture everybody about not smoking weed and cooking food on foreman grills. It was crazy up there, but had a lot of fun going down memory lane listening to the show. Uh, thanks a lot. Bye.

[00:12:50] Paul Scheer: Yes, yes, yes.

[00:12:53] King. First of all, George Foreman grills. What are people doing? Worried about their fat content? Uh, I love that George Foreman Grill that was so in and so out. Like it just, that was a shot, man off Foreman grills were the, I just love that you’re going around there as people are grilling up very healthy pieces of chicken and burgers.

[00:13:11] Alright, thank you Billy. Alright. Now, let’s go back to the Discord. Uh, I feel overwhelmed by the information we got. I mean, really on all sides. We went from society and our history to pop culture history to, well, I mean, honestly, onset behavior and history. We, it was really just history. Listen, uh, J Bro writes this.

[00:13:31] “There’s a theory about the kids clearing debt with Maurice. In the movie, we see Mr. Rad enlist the help of an LAPD officer to provide security for the dance competition with Wade’s crew. Later we see that same actor jump out of the black SUV to nab Elgin when Maurice comes along looking for his money. Watch both scenes carefully.

[00:13:49] Ooh, not only is it the same actor, but he repeats the same mannerisms from earlier in the movie as he stands watch at the dance competition and the SUV scene. I think that character was never an LAPD officer, but a high ranking gang member in Maurice’s crew, who clearly knows Mr. Rad and through their relationship, is able to influence Maurice to some degree.”

[00:14:12] Oh yeah. J bro. J bro. Now I like this. I, wow. This is the first time I’ve been gobsmacked by a correction and omission. That was great. Okay. Um, this is interesting here. Uh, just a little call out and I, I noticed people know that I’m a huge Lost fan and I didn’t call it out, but Little Saint was played by Malcolm David Kelly, who was Walt on Lost, but he was also half of the pop duo, MKTO, which you might have heard, uh, in their classic song.

[00:14:48] Classic. Here, take a listen to Lil Saint, AKA, Walt AKA, Malcolm, David Kelly. Uh. He is in under 30 seconds of the entire three minute song. So it’s a feature. It’s a feature. But by the way, listen to listen to our friend Walt.

[00:15:06] Music: You’re sick. I never met a girl like you ever, until we met a star in the forties, center fold in the fifties. Got me out like sixties, queen, the disco. A seventies, three eighties best Beyonce girl. Just soak.

[00:15:25] Paul Scheer: Well, so many great corrections and omissions this week, but there can only be one that is the best. And I’m not gonna lie to you, I’m not gonna make you wait for it at all because there is one person who came in and blew my F’in mind.

[00:15:36] That is Jay bro, bro. Jay bro. Wow. Thank you for illuminating us to what is really going on. Uh, I wish I could give you something, but I can’t, I can’t give you this song from Mike Concerta. Hit it.

[00:15:49] Music: You win nothing.

[00:16:00] Paul Scheer: Now if you wanna chime in with your own thoughts about the latest episode, hit up the discord at Discord.gg/HDTGM or call us at 619 P-A-U-L-A-S-K. Coming up after the break, Jason stops by to chat with Larry Charles, and myself, we’re gonna talk about Larry’s new book, Comedy Samurai. We’re also gonna talk about, uh, Jason in The Dictator. Me in Army of One and how Larry Charles managed to convince the DGA and New Line to release his cut of the movie years after it has been completed.

[00:16:31] All right, and we are back. Make sure you’re listening to our matinee episodes. Okay, every Tuesday we get a classic episode pulled outta the vault. This week’s matinee was Xanadu. Next week will be Speed Two Cruise Control with Scott Aukerman. That’s right. Hot Saucerman is here. Keep on checking out all of our replays of classic episodes every Tuesday.

[00:16:52] And without any further ado, it’s now time to welcome Jason to Last Looks for a little Just Chat.

[00:17:12] Jason, I am so excited about our guest today. This is a, a comedy icon, a legend, and a legend that you might not know by name, but you definitely know by work. Uh, his name is Larry Charles. He is a screenwriter, a director, a producer. He started off as a standup, worked on the show Fridays, which was a like competitor Saturday Night Live that actually starred, uh, Larry David, which by the way, check it out.

[00:17:41] Uh, then went on to write jokes for Arsenio Hall, then moves into television and becomes a key voice on Seinfeld. Uh, he is kind of known for crafting a lot of what we love about Kramer. He produces on shows like Mad About You and Entourage. Directs and is very heavily involved in Curb Your Enthusiasm, uh, has been Emmy and DGA nominated. Goes on to work with Sasha Barron Cohen in movies like Bruno and Borat and the Dictator.

[00:18:14] He directed Jason in The Dictator and Me in a Nicholas Cage movie called Army of One. Uh, he made a movie with Bob Dylan. He worked with Bill Maher on a documentary about religion and very recently directed the A 24 musical, Dicks. I mean, this is a man who has gone all over the comedy circuit for the last 40 years.

[00:18:37] Jason Mantzoukas: What I would say, one of the like curious agitators of this generation.

[00:18:43] Paul Scheer: He has just released a memoir called Comedy Samurai, 40 Years of Blood Guts and Laughter. Uh, it is everything that you want from a person who has traveled with all of these giantly talented people. Uh, he is raw, honest, gives you a true behind the scenes look at what it’s like to make these bold, setic, uh, legendary films, and I just can’t wait to talk to him.

[00:19:17] So without any further ado, please welcome Larry Charles.

[00:19:20] Larry Charles: Yes. Yes. Well, first of all, thank you for the kind words. Uh, uh, I think career. You’ve mentioned my career and I, I think one of the things that’s important to me is I don’t have a career. That’s one of the keys to my interesting work is that I’m just flailing and groping and trying to find cool things to do, and that’s been the body of work, you know, it just happened to work out. I’m very, very lucky.

[00:19:43] Jason Mantzoukas: I, I feel like Larry, you are, you attract people col. You’re an incredible collaborator.

[00:19:49] Paul Scheer: Yes.

[00:19:49] Jason Mantzoukas: And I will say like both Paul and I have been directed by you and you are a fantastic director, but I think you are in an incredible collaborator, and specifically you are always working.

[00:19:59] You are someone that people seek out in order to help them do their thing. Whether that person is Sasha Baron Cohen, or whether it’s Bill Maher, or whether it’s Larry David, you are someone for whom people are like, I don’t know how to do this thing. Maybe Larry does. You know, and that is incredible.

[00:20:16] Larry Charles: Well, that’s, that’s the samurai part of it, you know, going from village to village and trying to save the village, you know, and make the village great again and then moving on, you know, and, uh, I, I, that has kind of happened, you know, inadvertently over the years.

[00:20:30] Jason Mantzoukas: You’re a comedic Mifune.

[00:20:33] Larry Charles: That’s right.

[00:20:33] Paul Scheer: There’s something interesting though, because each one of these people, and if you look at just Larry David, Sasha Baron Cohen, and Bill Maher, the fact that you are able to get in with these guys who are very opinionated, very different, and they respect you, what do you think that is, that you are able to, I mean, you, you’re a whisperer too, because you’re able to manipulate people who I think have very strong beliefs of how things should be done. I mean, Jason and I worked with Jeff Schaffer for seven years on The League.

[00:21:03] Larry Charles: Right.

[00:21:03] Paul Scheer: And, you know, and he has a, and he worked on Seinfeld. You worked on Seinfeld and Curb with him. They want to do things very specifically, but you’re able to get in there and, and I think push. But also make them feel like they’re not being pushed.

[00:21:17] Larry Charles: Well, I’m very open. I, I, I wanna discover as much as anybody else does, you know?

[00:21:21] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:21:21] Larry Charles: I don’t wanna know everything. I wanna be surprised. And I think in that respect, I stay very open to the process. You know, I don’t force anything. I don’t try to make things happen. I try to just kind of absorb what’s happening and then direct it at the right, in the right place. So it’s, it’s very much about my integrity, really. You know? I think that all those people trusted me, and because I am trustworthy when it comes to that, I am not gonna compromise anyone’s vision. I’m gonna add my vision to your vision, and I’m gonna take it to the natural place it’s supposed to go.

[00:21:56] Paul Scheer: Well then I need to ask this question about Bob Dylan. How does Bob Dylan find you? Because, yeah, like in this world, right? And we, you talk about it in the book, but like. Bob Dylan goes, oh, I think I’m gonna write a movie with Larry Charles.

[00:22:10] Like, that is, that is right. I mean, again, talking about enigmatic people who are very much in a, uh, in their own shell and know what they wanna do. I mean, for him to reach out to you. Are you a, are you, imagine you’re a fan, but what is that like to work on that level too?

[00:22:27] Larry Charles: Well, he, I, you know, the thing, that’s one of the great things, I mean, there’s many great things about Bob Dylan. We could spend the whole time talking about him.

[00:22:33] Jason Mantzoukas: Ah, love it.

[00:22:34] Larry Charles: Is that, is that he is, um, he, he doesn’t have any pretenses, any sort of, uh, assumptions. So he didn’t care who I was. If he connected with me. He felt that was sufficient and adequate.

[00:22:47] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:22:47] Larry Charles: To move ahead, you know? And so we met that first time at the coffee shop.

[00:22:51] He wanted to do a half hour comedy. You know, he had been on tour on the Never Ending tour. He had a VCR, which was the technology of the time, and he was watching Jerry Lewis movies.

[00:23:01] Paul Scheer: Wow.

[00:23:02] Larry Charles: I mean, that alone is such a juxtaposition. Bob Dylan laughing at Jerry Lewis movies and he thought, Hey, I could do that. Which is a very presumptuous thing for him, but he wanted to do a half hour comedy. And so they came to me and said, would you be interested in meeting with Bob and talking about a half hour comedy? And I was like, sure, of course. You know, why wouldn’t I? But I thought it would be like one meeting, we’d have a cup of coffee and then I could tell all my friends that I met Bob Dylan.

[00:23:31] That was the extent of my expectation for that.

[00:23:34] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.

[00:23:34] Larry Charles: You know, and I went to the meeting and at that time I was wearing pajamas. Uh, I wore pajamas like for years. Um, I guess I was in some sort of weird space so that I was wearing pajamas. And I met him, he had a coffee shop in Santa Monica, he might still have it.

[00:23:50] And he came out and he was dressed like a homeless guy, which is sort of his look at the time. And we sat down and the first thing he said, his assistant came over and said, can I get you guys something to drink? And I said, I’ll have an iced coffee. And he said, uh, I want something hot. I want a hot beverage. That was like the first thing he said. And they brought the two drinks and immediately he took my drink, the iced coffee and started drinking it.

[00:24:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.

[00:24:17] Larry Charles: And I’m, and now I’m like, in this quandary, you know, do I say something? Do I let it go? You know, and I don’t say anything for a while. And finally he actually says to me, why aren’t you drinking your drink? And I said, because you stole my drink. And. He, he cracks up and we really started working from that moment on. Wow. He never, he, that was it. He just has an organic trust in the process, you know?

[00:24:42] Jason Mantzoukas: And do you think that was for him, like a bit like he was doing a bit with the drinks or seeing, or was it a test? Are you gonna, you know, come back at him or something? Like, I’m so curious about like it, ’cause Dylan is such an odd character, truly, you know?

[00:24:59] Larry Charles: Yes, yes. Well, I think that the answer is yes to everything.

[00:25:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:25:03] Larry Charles: I think it was a test. I think it was a bit, I think it was inadvertent on sub level, on purpose, on some level. I mean, that he is operating, he’s one of the few people that I’ve ever met who’s operating on all these levels at once. And so he trusts, he trusts himself, he trusts his instincts. That’s just the key with him.

[00:25:23] Paul Scheer: I mean, I guess also, if you can tell Bob Dylan, he stole your drink. Then you can actually give him a note on any creative project, right?

[00:25:29] Because most people wouldn’t

[00:25:31] Larry Charles: That’s right.

[00:25:31] Paul Scheer: Wouldn’t admit to that. Right? Like, I’m sure he lives in like a rarefied air. I heard a great story about Bob Dylan, you know, known for not really speaking in his shows, right? Like he, he just kind of plays his music and goes and, um, someone said that they went to go see him in, in concert, it was maybe like two or three years ago.

[00:25:49] And in the middle of his set, he stops and goes, uh, anyone see, uh, Creed two? And he is like, great movie, great movie, great boxing, and then just went back to playing his stuff. And I just love that like it was on his mind. Whatever he, I know he is into boxing. He has like a, you know, he must have just watched that because it was way after Creed two had come out. I think Creed three had already been out and so it was like he just caught Creed two. And wanted to talk.

[00:26:16] Larry Charles: He probably saw it on the bus.

[00:26:18] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:26:18] Larry Charles: Saw of, saw it on the bus. Behind the coffee shop that we met in that first day was a boxing gym that he owned.

[00:26:24] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, wow.

[00:26:24] Larry Charles: And he’s heavily into boxing and he did boxing workouts for years.

[00:26:28] And we would sit in a cubicle, a closed cubicle in the boxing office. He would chain smoke cigarettes for 12 hours a day.

[00:26:36] Paul Scheer: Oh God.

[00:26:36] Larry Charles: We would sit and write in this kind of cloud filled cubicle. Oh. And so that’s, he’s, he’s very connected to boxing. Of course. He wrote the great song Hurricane.

[00:26:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Yep.

[00:26:44] Larry Charles: Which is about Reuben Carter. So he’s, he loves, he loves boxing, or at least he used to anyway. Uh, the story that reminds me, my story that reminds me of that story is sitting with him and writing, and it’s true at a certain point that I got comfortable enough to give him a note and he would bring in little pieces of paper with, like a monologue or a, a line or a name of a character.

[00:27:07] And one day he was like, uh, he had this line, I’m not a pig without a wig. And I was like, you, you know, Bob, I have to say that even in this weird movie that we’re making, that line doesn’t make any sense. No one’s gonna know what that line means. It’s like, if no one’s gonna understand it. And he just looked at me and went, what’s so bad about misunderstanding?

[00:27:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh.

[00:27:30] Larry Charles: And I was like, whoa.

[00:27:31] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.

[00:27:31] Larry Charles: You know? And that’s the kind of, that’s the kind of logic that he throws out at you. Yeah. That kind of cracks your skull open, you know?

[00:27:40] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, because we’re, it’s just a, yeah. We’re working so hard to make sure what we say can only be understood.

[00:27:45] Larry Charles: Exactly, yeah.

[00:27:46] Jason Mantzoukas: The way we want it to be.

[00:27:47] Larry Charles: He’s been understood. He’s done that, right? Yeah. He’s interested now in what happens when you’re not understood. What is the, what is the consequences of that?

[00:27:55] Jason Mantzoukas: I love that. Oh, that’s so fantastic.

[00:27:58] Larry Charles: Fascinating guy.

[00:27:59] Paul Scheer: Now, you also, uh, you know, talking about like you and I, we work together with Nick Cage, another interesting guy, right?

[00:28:08] Larry Charles: Yes.

[00:28:08] Paul Scheer: And, um.

[00:28:09] Larry Charles: Yes.

[00:28:10] Paul Scheer: You know, a larger than life person. And, and I feel like there’s something about you as you are a writer, you are a director, and you can kind of, I think, talk to people on a lot of different levels. Can you, do you feel like there is a, a secret to, to getting people to trust you? Do you feel like it or, or do you just listen or like, do you have a technique to kind of engage with these people who might be more suspicious?

[00:28:36] I know we just talked about that a little bit, but like any way to kind of gain that trust and favor so they can kind of give you this performance that they’re not, uh, being overly conscious of.

[00:28:44] Larry Charles: It’s a great question. The answer though is I don’t have a technique. I, I am me.

[00:28:49] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:28:49] Larry Charles: And I think that just the natural version of who I am just connects very well with larger than life characters. Growing up in Brooklyn on the streets, dealing with crazy characters all the time, dealing with intimidating people all the time. I just learned how to find common ground to survive, right?

[00:29:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:29:11] Larry Charles: So I wouldn’t get my ass kicked, essentially. And I think that that gave me some unique traits that I’ve been able, luckily to apply to someone like Nick or Bob or those kind of people.

[00:29:24] Paul Scheer: But when I first met you. I gotta say, I don’t know if you felt this Jason too. I was intimidated because the only images I’ve seen of you, you look like a fucking badass. I mean, you’ve, you got this beard, you’re sometimes wearing a hat, like you, you, and like you said, you showed up in like maybe pajamas ’cause you’re in that, that like you just didn’t know what you were gonna get.

[00:29:43] And I was like, oh man, I don’t wanna upset this guy. And you are exactly who you are in this in interview. You’re just very down to earth, very funny. And you don’t take yourself seriously. But there is a presence to you. If, if we were just to put pictures of you up, you’d be like, don’t fuck with this guy.

[00:30:02] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah. There’s a real. There’s a real dark prince of comedy vibe. Yeah. Uh, uh, off of, uh, LC. But I remember, but then like, to Paul’s point, like, what a sweetheart you are, Larry. We did, uh, we’ve done a couple of things together. First, we did, um, a pilot that I’m not gonna remember the name of, forgive me, but, um,

[00:30:20] Larry Charles: Ant Hines Pilot.

[00:30:21] Jason Mantzoukas: It was Ant’s Pilot and I think it was, yeah. What was the guy’s name? Paul, um, the star’s name was Paul. British guy.

[00:30:28] Larry Charles: Yes. Paul. British guy. Right, right.

[00:30:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Anyway, we, we were on, I was doing that and it was, it was genuinely like a, a very early job for me, and I had my beard and the be, I needed to shave my beard for the part, you know, uh, and you pulled me aside beforehand and gave me a real, like, Hey, I’m a beard guy too.

[00:30:49] Don’t worry about, like, you gave me a very sweet conversation. That was like, that felt like you were saying, Hey, I know I’m asking you to shave your beard, and that’s a hassle, and I get that, but, but I appreciate it. It’ll be okay. And I was like, wow, what a sweet move and what a generous thing to do.

[00:31:05] Paul Scheer: Oh, yeah.

[00:31:05] Jason Mantzoukas: And like, I’m sure by the mo the next morning, my beard had already grown back. I’m, you know, it, it grows so fast. But I, it was just such a, like, such a generous move to put me at ease and to like, and to really get me feeling comfortable. And that is, I feel like an essential part of what you’re great at is really getting, really connecting with everybody and helping everybody connect with each other.

[00:31:28] Larry Charles: Yeah. Making I, I want to be like a human safety net. I want people to feel like they could go crazy, they could go over the line, they could be wrong, they could do too much, and it’s fine.

[00:31:38] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:31:39] Larry Charles: You know, we’ll do another take, you know, if it has to change. And a lot of time giving that people permission to be whatever they’re going to be. And Jason, you’re a great example of it. In The Dictator, you discovered new things all the time.

[00:31:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:31:51] Larry Charles: You were always finding new material, new ways to approach it. You never did the same thing twice. And it was always like a revelation. And that’s what I want. I want, I wanna be surprised by you and I’ll do anything I can to try to make that happen.

[00:32:06] Paul Scheer: Well I think that’s, yeah, that idea of like mixing improv into writing, some writers are very strict. They don’t want you to change anything. It has to kind of be letter perfect. And I think you’ve definitely found in these later years this ability to kind of have something that’s written that you feel good about, but then you can kind of continually craft, even on, uh, Army of One, the movie that we did with Nick Cage, you were constantly like retooling the script, getting it down to its core essence and just finding things.

[00:32:36] But again, allowing the day to be whatever the day was and then not overdoing it. If you got it, you got it. And that’s, I feel like a real trust in the entire process. The actors yourself and you know, and I think like a lot of people, I. You were one of the very few sets I’ve ever wrapped early on, and I was like, and I was like, and that’s extreme. It wasn’t because you were like, yeah, we got it. Like you and Clint Eastwood are the two people.

[00:33:02] Jason Mantzoukas: I’ll say somehow we never wrapped early on The Dictator.

[00:33:04] Larry Charles: Right. That’s right, that’s right.

[00:33:05] Jason Mantzoukas: No, that’s, that’s interesting.

[00:33:07] Larry Charles: There were other forces at work at The Dictator.. Yeah.

[00:33:11] Jason Mantzoukas: Uh, indeed, indeed.

[00:33:13] Larry Charles: I, I’m very, I’m a big admirer of Clint Eastwood of all people, and not that he’s like big on comedy. But he’s somebody too who trusts his instincts, and when he’s got it, he’s got it. He doesn’t belabor the point, you know. On The Dictator it was a little different because Sasha never felt we got it.

[00:33:30] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes.

[00:33:31] Larry Charles: And so we were going, and then we might come back the next day and do it again, or we would try a completely different version of it sometimes.

[00:33:39] And so it was a little bit more of a challenge on The Dictator, but on Army of One.

[00:33:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah. I’ve never seen anything that loose scaled up that big, you know, like the, the looseness with which I feel like your sets are like the traditional kind of, okay, let’s improvise, let’s find moments. I’d never seen it on a scale that big as the dictator with hundreds of extras and with stunt elements and all this stuff.

[00:34:03] Larry Charles: Yeah, it was a little crazy. And uh, it was a little stressful at times too.

[00:34:08] Jason Mantzoukas: I, I’m aware.

[00:34:09] Larry Charles: But you were always, you, uh, you know, the thing I would say to you is you were always there. You were so present and you always had something new to play with and you never gave up. And, and at times it, it was challenging and you were always amazing and your performance really was fantastic in that movie.

[00:34:28] Jason Mantzoukas: Thank you, Larry.

[00:34:29] Larry Charles: I was so blown away. And then of course I lost control of the editing and some of that got lost, sadly. Uh, not, but sadly, um, for me as well, I. Um, but really that was a tremendous, uh, one of a kind performance and you were great.

[00:34:43] Jason Mantzoukas: Thank you, Larry. That’s very sweet of you to say. I will say it was truly one of the most incredible experiences of my life on a process level.

[00:34:51] Paul Scheer: Hey Jason, you are still in the dictator, right? You are still in?

[00:34:53] Jason Mantzoukas: I am still in the movie.

[00:34:54] Paul Scheer: Great.

[00:34:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes, I am still in the movie.

[00:34:56] Larry Charles: You’re in the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s true.

[00:34:58] Jason Mantzoukas: I will say like anytime I work in New York, Larry, anytime I’m on a set in New York, somebody on that set worked on The Dictator and wants to pull me aside and talk about it.

[00:35:08] Larry Charles: Right, right. That is the way, that’s why the chapter is so large in the book also.

[00:35:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah. It was a, it was a wild ride and it, I loved reading that part of the book and, and seeing like, you know, legendary AD Joe Reed’s name, all these kind, all these wonderful people who came through that.

[00:35:28] Paul Scheer: Well, you know, Larry, you’re talking about like losing control or getting outta the edit on the dictator. You’ve done something that I was blown away by on the movie that we did Army of One. You were allowed to release your cut on YouTube.

[00:35:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, wow.

[00:35:42] Paul Scheer: So it’s the cut that you actually wanted to make. I thought that was one of the coolest things ever because there are these, you know, we obviously hear about it in the grand, like the superhero thing, like what’s the cut, you know, the, the, the Snyder cut and stuff like that. But to see the movie that you wanted to make. What was the impetus to continue to kind of push that forward? Because obviously it’s a comedy, you don’t often hear about the comedy alt version of it, but this came out maybe I wanna say like a year and a half ago you were able to release your cut. Yeah.

[00:36:10] Larry Charles: Yeah. Well, it took me that long, uh, first of all, I had a battle with Bob Weinstein. Yeah. Bob Weinstein. You know, I, I, I finished the movie. And then the producers basically bailed on me. I mean, it’s funny in both these cases, The Dictator and Army of One, I’ve lost control of that final edit. I wish I could put out my version of The Dictator also, but it’s a little bit more complicated.

[00:36:33] But I went to the, I, I eventually, I looked into litigation, I looked into all kinds of alternatives to sort of get control of the cut again, ’cause I thought the cut that they did was so bet, uh, such a betrayal of what the intention of the movie was.

[00:36:48] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:36:48] Larry Charles: The movie was a very. Dark, strange, surreal movie. And they tried to make it into like a fairytale. And uh, I thought they really ruined the movie. They ruined the whole point of the movie, you know, uh, which has a kind of a sad, poignant ending to it also. And they changed that even, and they couldn’t do it because I didn’t give them the footage. So it’s very cobbled together in a very, you know, uh, incoherent way as well.

[00:37:14] And it really bothered me because I didn’t want it to be reflective of my work.

[00:37:18] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:37:18] Larry Charles: You know? And I went to, I went to lawyers and nobody wanted to take on Bob Weinstein. My own lawyers, my own agents at the time did not wanna mess with it because of the Weinsteins was so still so powerful at that point. And I finally went to the DGA. And there was a guy at the DGA named David Dreyfus who said, this is ridiculous. I can’t believe this happened. And he single-handedly got me the agreement to be able to do my own cut and put that cut out as long as I didn’t make money with it, which was not my, my goal anyway.

[00:37:52] And so that’s what I was able to, I was able to, uh, fashion my own cut and which was the original cut that I had done and put that out on YouTube and it’s available for people to see. And it’s the stark contrast to the version which died, by the way.

[00:38:05] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:38:06] Larry Charles: Anyway. I mean, yeah, if the movie was, if the movie was gonna bomb, let my version of the movie bomb, you know? So now this version does exist for people who wanna see it, and they’ll see it in stark contrast to what they may have seen on Amazon or wherever the other version is.

[00:38:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow. That’s incredible.

[00:38:22] Paul Scheer: It’s, it’s really, uh, it’s, it’s such a better movie. Your movie is such a better movie than the one that was released. And it is that thing as a director or as even like a, a, you know, you started directing in TV too. Like you can get your work taken away from you. And I think a lot of people don’t realize how quickly that can happen and how this mindset that you have and this ability to kind of move from town to town and not carry that weight.

[00:38:46] Because I think it can get very, I I think it could beat you down a little bit. Right? Because you don’t know who to trust.

[00:38:52] Larry Charles: Yeah.

[00:38:52] Paul Scheer: Like you we’re talking about other, you know, idiosyncratic people trusting you, but you have to also trust that you’re not gonna be fucked over. Right. Because it’s sort of like, it feels like that’s.

[00:39:02] Larry Charles: Yeah.

[00:39:02] Paul Scheer: Often what happens a lot of the times.

[00:39:04] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, it’s also, yeah, how comfortable are you knowing or assuming that at some point in this process, this difficult person is going to turn on me, you know, and, and how do you handle that?

[00:39:15] Larry Charles: There’s a lot of betrayal, a lot of backstabbing, a lot of bad behavior. You know, and one of the reasons I did this with Army of One was I, I felt like I had let Nick down actually, right? Nick had really given everything to that movie, and he gave a really one of a kind performance. And I promised him that that version of the movie would be the movie, you know? And then it was taken away from me and I, I had, I, I wrote to him and I apologized, and I just felt like I had let him down. And so I really wanted to put out the version that we had agreed on because that was the version that he, he really shows all the, the levels that he was trying to reach in that, in that part. So that was, that. A lot of it was just to kind of make things right with Nick. I, I felt like I owed Nick that, you know? Yeah. That was important to me.

[00:40:04] Jason Mantzoukas: That’s great.

[00:40:05] Paul Scheer: And I feel like that’s the, that’s the reason why you work with these people. ’cause they know that you’ll, you’ll look out for them on some level. And I think there’s a, there’s like a great quote. In the book about like, I think, well, I’m gonna paraphrase it, but you do things that seem dangerous and or reckless, but you don’t actually, they, they appear that way. But you’re, you are approaching it with a lot of care and thought. How do you approach that? You know, that idea of being. Quote, unquote reckless, but also having like a structure to it.

[00:40:35] Larry Charles: Well, I wanna push, you know, to me it’s all about co the, the best comedy is, is entering forbidden territory. You know, trying to get to a place that really wouldn’t normally be even thought of as funny. I mean, religion is a very serious topic to most people, but for me, I knew that, that therefore it was great fodder for comedy and The Dictator the same way, and even Army of One.

[00:41:00] The story of Gary Faulkner. It’s not really a funny story. No. You know, but, but it’s, that’s where comedy, the, the most, the richest comedy lies for me, you know, is the places where you’re not supposed to be laughing. If you could get comedy outta something that isn’t funny, that’s the place where the audience can finally liberate themselves and release all those emotions and laugh in a way they normally don’t laugh at things. And that wave of that.

[00:41:26] Jason Mantzoukas: That, that discomfort, you know, that discomfort is so important, you know, and, and it’s missing from so much of what’s funny right now.

[00:41:34] Larry Charles: You can’t, now, it’s very hard to do actually, but it is a release for the audience. And that’s when you achieve those gales of laughter and that I’m addicted to that. I want, I want the audience to lose control, like in a horror movie. Uh, instead of screaming, I want people to be laughing on that same level.

[00:41:51] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, it’s that thing too, where we have lost, we used to all share in the collective experience of being scared.

[00:41:59] Larry Charles: Yes.

[00:41:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Together in the movie theater. Screaming together at the movie theater being

[00:42:02] Paul Scheer: Yes.

[00:42:03] Jason Mantzoukas: Having a collective experience. And the same was true for laughing together. Not just, I think that’s funny, but the waves of laughter that take over an audience that’s missing. We don’t do that anymore.

[00:42:15] Larry Charles: Yeah.

[00:42:15] Jason Mantzoukas: We don’t put people in a room. I remember seeing Borat in a theater and thinking this theater is going to crumble to the ground. Um, and so physically committed to laughter are these people that it is like shaking the room basically, you know, and that we don’t do anymore.

[00:42:33] Larry Charles: I was just gonna say, the audience is now broken down and fragmented. It’s really not a mass audience anymore. And the movie going experience really doesn’t exist for comedies like it once did. It reminds me of that great, the final scene of Sullivan’s Travels where, you know, he all the, the, the, all the uh, the convicts and all the people are all together from all these different walks of life and they’re laughing hysterically at the movie. And it’s like, that is the power of laughter.

[00:42:59] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:43:00] Larry Charles: And we’ve kind of lost that power a little bit. I agree with you.

[00:43:03] Paul Scheer: You also forget that when you’re in an audience, the laughter kind of will check you. Like if you look around, I felt like when we first started performing in LA, there was a little bit of a vibe, especially when we were doing improv where people were looking to the left and their right being, is this funny?

[00:43:17] Is it okay to laugh at this? Whereas New York, I feel like we could push any boundary, any limit, and it was getting a laugh. And I think so many people consume things at home now or in the privacy of their, just on their phone and in their head that you can manipulate a joke and you cease to see why it’s funny.

[00:43:33] But if you’re in a, a crowd of people and you’re hearing it, you’re much, you know, you’re much more willing to be like, okay, I’m the odd person out, or I’m not gonna be judging this. ’cause it clearly is working. But when you’re only one person receiving comedy, you can manipulate it in any which way, or take a quote out of context.

[00:43:48] It really is, it’s a bummer because you see things that are clearly sarcastic or you know, just being silly and people just miss the whole point of it. And that’s a bummer right now too.

[00:43:58] Larry Charles: Well you want that process to be unconscious, right? You want people to not be thinking about it. Now we watch things and we go, okay, that’s a joke.

[00:44:06] That’s supposed to be funny. And you’re going through a thought process, a conscious thought process instead of like on Borat, where you don’t know what’s gonna happen, you, it’s completely unpredictable and now you’re laughing out of a reflex, not because of something you thought about but something you just are reacting to naturally.

[00:44:24] And that that sort of natural reaction, that reflex reaction, which happens with horror movies too when they work, is kind of being lost and sort of filtered down and flattened by the algorithm, by the fragmented audience, by the various pressures, the corporate pressures also that are on, um, most comedy today, it seems.

[00:44:47] Jason Mantzoukas: There’s also something about comedy really thrives in your ability to surprise the audience, for them to feel as though they are being surprised or they are discovering in the moment, an avenue forward that they didn’t see happening, but you’ve just shown it to them, right? You are saying, look at this, you know, uh uh, you thought it was gonna be this, yeah, maybe it’s this or whatever, and that entire thought process now is is suspect to people.

[00:45:13] Larry Charles: Yes.

[00:45:13] Jason Mantzoukas: Like they don’t wanna be surprised it, you know?

[00:45:16] Larry Charles: That’s right.

[00:45:16] Jason Mantzoukas: It feels as though to surprise people now is for them to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Don’t do that. Let’s not get crazy.

[00:45:22] Larry Charles: Right. Exactly. Right. Let’s stick with the plan here. And that’s why the purity of comedy today is in what you guys do is in improv, is in standup. Those are the places where that purity, that connection with the audience, that unpredictability you’re talking about, still exists. And you could have that connection still and have it be an eruption because of that and because the audience does want to be surprised, but they’re afraid of it. And they’ve been taught not to really, they’ve been conditioned not to really be seeking it anymore, you know?

[00:45:53] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:45:53] Larry Charles: So it’s great that you guys are still doing that because that’s the place on the stage with a live audience where you could still achieve that sort of uh, level.

[00:46:01] Paul Scheer: There’s two things that you’ve done recently that really blew my mind. And one I think speaks to this, which is like the Dangerous World of Comedy that you did for, uh, Netflix is a documentary about, you know, people, you know, doing comedy in like Liberia and Somalia.

[00:46:16] Like, and you forget that there is comedy in these other places, right? Like, we don’t think of it like that. I think that there’s, or at least when you are looking at it, I, I don’t know. I think we can be very, uh, you know, we can get very pigeonholed and thinking about it. And so that really was wonderful to see like, oh yeah, how do you do it in these countries where free speech is at stake?

[00:46:35] Or how do you be funny in these worlds? And, and I, I just, if you have not watched that, uh, this is true, people who are listening, check that out. It’s just a really beautiful way of kind of blowing out what comedy is to so many groups of people. We have so much longitude and latitude here to do whatever we want, but there’s other people who have to work in smaller parameters and they’re still doing amazing work and really interesting work.

[00:46:59] Larry Charles: Yeah.

[00:47:00] Paul Scheer: Um. I also just wanna talk to you about, uh, the musical that you did, that musical Dicks that you did was one of like, it was one of those moments where, I don’t know if I even knew that you directed it or whatever it was, but I like sat up off the couch.

[00:47:17] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:47:17] Paul Scheer: In the first moments, like, holy shit. Like, and I feel like that, like that energy is kind of electric and very different for you, right? Like this is like a bold, like queer comedy and it’s like, and it’s a musical, like how do you get involved to in that? Is that something you’ve always wanted to do? I know I heard Tom Cruise wants to do a musical. I didn’t know if Larry Charles, I had that on his, uh, list.

[00:47:41] Larry Charles: Well, again, I, first of all, I was very lucky, Josh and Aaron, the stars of the movie, who I insisted be the stars of the movie. Not, I didn’t want Matt Damon and Ben Affleck to play those two parts. Um, they, they actually came to me and asked me if I’d be interested and they gave me the script and they showed me their UCB sketch that it was based on.

[00:48:00] Paul Scheer: Yeah, it was a UCB show, right?

[00:48:01] Larry Charles: It was a UCB show. Yeah. And I read the script and I remember, I remember it so well. I read the first two pages and I was laughing so hard at the script, and I went to my wife and I said, this is like the funniest script I’ve read since, you know, Borat or whatever. And I kept reading and it kept getting funnier and funnier and funnier.

[00:48:22] And then the music was amazing, right? And I was like, I was so excited that I had to make that movie. And when I feel that way, I really trust that feeling. And I, I also knew that we’d get very little money for it. I like the idea, the challenge of doing this on a low budget and shot it kind of like, let’s do a show together, kind of feeling proscenium style very in your face. And I thought it was really, really fun. And I thought the language transcended its queerness, its gayness. It was just funny, you know?

[00:48:55] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh yeah.

[00:48:55] Paul Scheer: It’s an electric movie that again. I feel like when it came out or theaters were just coming back, but it’s like, that’s a movie that I wish I saw surrounded by people, right?

[00:49:05] Jason Mantzoukas: Yes. Because that is a big, that’s a like belly laugh. Very funny, constantly surprising movie.

[00:49:13] Larry Charles: Yes, yes. Well we did, we did a number of previews in with audiences and, and like a Toronto and places like that where it killed.

[00:49:21] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:49:21] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:49:21] Larry Charles: And it was like, it was great to watch an audience again, we’ve been talking about how it’s also fragmented, but their audiences came together in these various screenings and really were like rocking. It was, they were like rocking audiences and I want that rock concert live event sort of feeling to it. And it really had that, and the music was amazing. I mean, that was one of the most special things about it too. And it was fun to do choreography and shoot that kind of stuff as well.

[00:49:48] Paul Scheer: You are working with, like we said in the beginning, so many amazing people. Like in Dicks you have like Meghan, the the Stallion. You have, you know, you have stories about her, Mel Brooks and Larry David and Sasha Baron Cohen. These are stories that I would imagine when I’m reading this book, I’m like, are you nervous to be like, can I tell these stories? Cause I mean, I’m sure that there are some things you maybe had to take out, but when you put it in a book. Do you feel nervous? Like, oh, I don’t wanna say that about this person, or I, you know, maybe that’s crossing the line.

[00:50:17] Larry Charles: Well, I felt like I, as long as I was honest about myself, I thought I could be honest about others. And I certainly, you know, bust myself as much as I bust anybody else. You know? And I think so, you know, you’re getting truth, you know, and, and it’s like you could hide the truth only so long. It seemed to me, this is the truth of my life, you know, for better or for worse. And that includes my own failings, which are legion.

[00:50:42] You know, I’ve had, I’ve had tremendous failure, tremendous humiliating failure as well as success. And I felt, you know, that was what justified me talking about these things when I was hurting somebody that seemed to not deserve to be hurt in some way. I would take that out. I wasn’t interested in just hurting people, but I was interested in telling people the truth of my life and my saga. Essentially.

[00:51:07] Paul Scheer: And I imagine too, there’s probably this thing where. When people hear about you, they were like, oh, well, tell us about Seinfeld. What about the masturbation episode? What, you know, I’m sure there’s these things that you have talked about and there’s, and there are no good stories to it, right?

[00:51:20] Like, it’s like, well, what was it like to shoot that? It’s like, well, I don’t know if we had any notes on the contest. Right? It’s like there’s no, but, you know, but like, but come with me because I actually have like 20 other more interesting stories.

[00:51:31] Larry Charles: Yeah.

[00:51:31] Paul Scheer: I don’t know if this is in the book or if I remember reading this, but when you were working on Arsenio Hall, which I love, and you were a joke writer for Arsenio Hall.

[00:51:38] You started out as a standup. You couldn’t get any jokes on the air. Right? And, and you had this like, come to Jesus moment. It was like, I, I remember you, maybe you just told me this, but like Jack Nicholson, you’re like out in front of the Arsenio Hall stages. Like can you talk about that for a second?

[00:51:52] Larry Charles: Yeah.

[00:51:52] Paul Scheer: Like, yeah, just like being in this moment of just like. I’m fucked. Like I have a kid and I don’t know what to do. Like.

[00:51:58] Larry Charles: Yeah. That is in the book, by the way.

[00:51:59] Paul Scheer: Okay. That’s why then I remembered it the right way.

[00:52:01] Larry Charles: Right, right, right. No, I, I, you know, I initially had gone to Arsenio and I said, you know, I wanna write these Richard Pryor type monologues.

[00:52:08] And he was really into it. And I did that at first and he was getting so much shit for just being a black guy on tv. He was getting such hate mail. Pre-internet.

[00:52:19] Paul Scheer: Wow.

[00:52:19] Larry Charles: He would actually literally get like crayon hate mail threatening him and sexually wanting to destroy him. And we had metal screeners up in the, in the, uh, in the audience so that people would come through.

[00:52:32] We had to take their weapons off of them. It was a very weird, crazy, he was under a lot of pressure that people don’t really know about, so he couldn’t do this controversial material. It was too much for him. It was too much to take on, and I could not write those kind of generic jokes that he needed. I just couldn’t do it.

[00:52:51] So I went for six months without getting a joke on the air, and I knew that at the end of that, my contract would be over and I was gonna be fired. And I came to that point where it was almost over, the contract was almost over, and I went outside and I’m standing in front of the trailer where the writer’s, you know, worked this dank trailer on the Paramount. People think Paramount, they think of the glamor, but we worked in a dank trailer. It was disgusting. You know, there little rooms in a dank trailer. And I knew that Jack Nicholson was on the lot ’cause he was doing The Two Jakes at the time, the sequel to Chinatown.

[00:53:24] And I’d seen his parking space and I’ve seen his Mercedes in the parking space. And I’m standing outside the trailer and I’m just looking at the sky, literally going, what am I gonna do? Like my career is over. Where do I go from here? You know, I have, I have no idea what I was gonna do. And as you said, I had a baby and I felt like, wow man, I am fucked.

[00:53:44] This is it. It’s over. I had a ride and now the ride is over and suddenly out of the corner of my eye I saw, slowly moving towards me, this Mercedes. And I saw inside a guy wearing the Laker hat and the sunglasses, and it was Jack Nicholson. And he’s slowly moving past me, and as he moves past me, and he’s in the car, he’s got everything.

[00:54:08] He’s really beat, he’s beat the system, you know, he, he looks at me and I look at him and we both just burst out laughing, apropos of nothing. We just both burst out laughing. And he just says, yeah, it’s funny. And just keeps going.

[00:54:27] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.

[00:54:28] Larry Charles: And I interpreted that as like, it’s a game, man. It’s a game. I played the game. I did, okay, just play the game. Don’t take it so seriously, it’s gonna be all right. You know? And I really, he gave me kind of hope in a weird way, in that little moment, you know? And then I got fired and, the, the next thing that happened was Larry David called me and, uh, asked me if I wanted to come to work on Seinfeld.

[00:54:54] Jason Mantzoukas: Wow.

[00:54:54] Paul Scheer: Wow. Is, is there a, a piece of your, your body of work, not your career, but your body of work that you like a lot, that you feel like people don’t appreciate. Because obviously you, you, there’s so many things I’m sure that people are gonna run up and talk to you about, but you’re like, oh, no one ever talks to me about this.

[00:55:12] I think this is like one of my favorite things. Whether it’s like, you know, and you were working on sketches on Friday all the way, uh, through, you know, through now, I mean like anything that you stands out that people don’t talk to you about enough.

[00:55:24] Larry Charles: Well, it’s an interesting point because I often think, and I think I talk about it in the book even, that we’re defined by our body of work, by our public body of work, but in a lot of ways I think you would, you’d know me better and you know, a lot of people better by the stuff that doesn’t get produced.

[00:55:39] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:55:39] Larry Charles: Or that fails that nobody sees. And I would even look at Army of One, for instance, is a perfect example of that. I mean, I really was proud. I I was excited about making it, I was excited about working with all of you. I, I loved the movie. I thought, wow, we really have done something very, very unique and it got kind of crushed.

[00:55:59] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:55:59] Larry Charles: And that, and it crushed me at the same time, you know? And so I think that’s a perfect example of something that more people, most people don’t even know exists. And, um, and I have a lot of work like that that has either been made that people haven’t seen or that hasn’t been made. I made a lot of pilots very, like the pilot that Jason’s talking about.

[00:56:20] Or a number of other pilots that were really cool, interesting, weird pilots, you know, with interesting people.

[00:56:26] Paul Scheer: I mean, you made the Kanye West pilot too at that point. I mean, you know that.

[00:56:29] Jason Mantzoukas: That’s right.

[00:56:30] Larry Charles: That’s right. His whole life would be different today if that had been picked up, you know, if you think about it and, um.

[00:56:36] Paul Scheer: Yeah, I mean, seven seasons would be a whole different story.

[00:56:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, then you imagine.

[00:56:40] Larry Charles: That’s right. He would be a totally different trip now. Um, but so yeah, I think there’s a lot of my work, a lot of it is unseen for one reason or another, and that work that is unseen, I think defines me as much as the work that is out there that people know about.

[00:56:56] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:56:57] Larry Charles: And I try to talk about as much of it as I can in the book.

[00:57:00] Paul Scheer: Well, the book is really great in the sense that if you are a fan of comedy, you have touched something like, and, and it’s, and it’s not like this is not a book that, oh yeah. Larry worked on, you know, Seinfeld and this is now your, it, it’s Seinfeld is a, is a part of the book. It’s so much bigger on both sides of it and continues to grow.

[00:57:23] And it’s sort of not even a career book because like I said, your career is still going. You’re very active, you’re doing a bunch of stuff, and this is like a chance to sit down with just a great comedy mind in a, in a sense of, this is what everybody wants to hear. I think it’s the stories, it’s the.

[00:57:42] Jason Mantzoukas: Well, it’s like, it’s no bullshit too.

[00:57:44] Paul Scheer: Right.

[00:57:44] Jason Mantzoukas: Like I, if you’re listening to this, you’re getting a sense of it.

[00:57:47] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:57:47] Jason Mantzoukas: You’re one of my favorite people to run into, to talk to you are a, not only are you at all these things or all these places, or inside of all of these iconic, or as we’re talking about maybe not iconic things, things that have lost their way or been taken away from you.

[00:58:02] There’s something really incredible about all the stuff you’ve done. And you’re just a great storyteller. You’re a great, you’re, you’re perfect at telling your story in a way that is warts and all. It is not like you look, look at me putting yourself up on a pedestal or something. It is, it’s a blast to read these chapters.

[00:58:20] Larry Charles: Thank you.

[00:58:21] Jason Mantzoukas: It’s a blast to read this book.

[00:58:23] Larry Charles: Thank you. Thank you.

[00:58:24] Paul Scheer: You know, you are also narrating your book as an audio book. So for people here, a lot of our, uh, audience are gonna listen to it and it’s you telling these stories, which makes it a million times better. And, uh, because it’s, it’s, I I think it’s, you know, there’s something really fun about being able to say your word.

[00:58:42] I mean, writing your words is one thing, but then also being able to perform them. You know, you, you started off as a standup too. Was it fun to go back and, and do and perform your book? ‘Cause you’re not often, you know, you’re not often on camera like that.

[00:58:54] Larry Charles: I, I loved it actually. I had a really great time making the audiobook. Uh, we did it in this really small studio and it was just a, uh, I did enjoy performing because I wrote, I wrote it the way I talk.

[00:59:05] Paul Scheer: Yeah.

[00:59:06] Jason Mantzoukas: Yeah.

[00:59:06] Larry Charles: And so I, reading it was a really natural, organic kind of process for me and I really had a good time doing that. Yeah. And I do see it as one big monologue in a way. Yeah.

[00:59:14] Paul Scheer: I love it. Well, and we’re gonna let you go. I just wanna ask one quick question ’cause you did say, you mentioned Sullivan’s Travels, which was one of my favorite, uh, movies. Comedy movies. Anything that you would recommend. That just tickles your fancy, that you’re like, oh, this is something you should check out.

[00:59:28] It doesn’t have to be new, it could be old. Like, just something that you want to turn us onto. ‘Cause we always talk about things that we’re recommending to each other, but like, what have you been into? It could be music, it could be a movie, it could be anything. Just, yeah. What are you into?

[00:59:40] Larry Charles: You know, I recently watched, uh, a movie which most people don’t know exists, and it’s about LA and it’s called The Loved One. Have you ever heard of this movie?

[00:59:48] Paul Scheer: Oh, no.

[00:59:49] Jason Mantzoukas: No.

[00:59:49] Larry Charles: The Love the Loved one is directed by Tony Richardson, who is a really great director of the sixties and stars Robert Morse and an all star cast of cameos.

[00:59:58] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, wow.

[00:59:59] Larry Charles: Uh, Jonathan Winters and all kinds of really interesting people. Um, and it’s about the funeral industry in Los Angeles.

[01:00:07] Jason Mantzoukas: Cool.

[01:00:07] Larry Charles: And it’s basically a, a comedy about the funeral industry in Los Angeles. It’s in black and white. But it’s a really super cool, funny one of a kind movie. I happened to watch it recently and I thought, wow, this is an undiscovered gem.

[01:00:22] Paul Scheer: I love this.

[01:00:22] Larry Charles: So, uh, anybody who’s interested in comedy and looking for something esoteric, that’s something I would definitely recommend. It’s on, you know, streaming somewhere.

[01:00:30] Paul Scheer: Yeah, it’s a, it’s on Amazon Prime. You can get it on a Blu-ray too. It’s a nice Blu-Ray. Larry, your book, Comedy Samurai.

[01:00:36] Jason Mantzoukas: Amazing.

[01:00:36] Paul Scheer: It’s, it’s right now, so you can get the audio book, you can get the regular book. Are you gonna be doing any signings or getting anywhere out like that on the road, or are you just, uh, staying in?

[01:00:45] Larry Charles: I have a book soup event, um, at the Wilshire Ebell on, on, uh, next week, uh, next sometime. I’m not sure when.

[01:00:52] Paul Scheer: Okay.

[01:00:52] Larry Charles: And, um, uh, and I’m doing, I’m going to New York and I’ll be in a couple of shows and I’m doing the podcast and yeah, I’m, I’m trying to make the rounds, you know?

[01:01:01] Paul Scheer: I love it. Well, everyone should check out this book. Uh, I was so excited to have you on here. Uh, and yeah, like I said, one of my best experiences, I think Jason to too, is like, working with you is truly.

[01:01:12] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, I mean, truly, truly, it, it has been what a pleasure, you know, and that The Dictator was a real capital M movie to be on, and, and you were an essential part of making that a, a, an, an insane and incredible experience.

[01:01:30] Larry Charles: Yeah. Well thank you guys both and again, I, my apologies for the way things turned out, but I loved working with both of you and I hope I get a chance to do it again.

[01:01:38] Jason Mantzoukas: Oh, absolutely,

[01:01:39] Paul Scheer: Absolutely. Anytime. I mean, we’ll show up, uh, and I’ll tell you this much, uh, when your book came, uh, I was reading it. My dad, uh, was visiting, took it, read it, and took it home with him. So I am now buying another copy of your book, uh, so it can live on my bookcase.

[01:01:54] Larry Charles: Thank you.

[01:01:54] Paul Scheer: Alright. Uh, thank you Larry.

[01:01:55] Larry Charles: Alright, thanks guys. Great to see you.

[01:01:57] Paul Scheer: Thank you Jason, for just chatting with me. But now it is finally time to announce our next movie. We’re gonna be going from Mr. Rad to Getting Rad.

[01:02:06] That’s right. Next week we are shredding the gnar as we watch Surf 2 starring Eddie Deen and Eric Stoltz. I love this movie. We did this on tour. It is one of my favorites. I recommend you watching it. Here’s a short breakdown of the plot.

[01:02:20] “A disgruntled nerd who was bullied in high school creates Buzz Cola, a soft drink that turns surfers into zombies.”

[01:02:26] Yes, it only has a 53% score on rotten tomatoes and Woody Anders says,

[01:02:33] “It’s a one star film because it’s a horribly stupid, and annoyingly would be sendup of both 1960 beach party pictures and cheesy seventies drive-in horror. But guess what? It works.”

[01:02:43] Take a listen to the trailer.

[01:02:47] Trailer Audio: The surf wars continue when a mad genius pollutes innocent surfer youth and the free beaches of America.

[01:02:54] Do you know how many brain surges nuclear visits are nobel and Server? I’ll tell you, nine.

[01:02:59] It’s a sprawling surf saga of rebellion. Romance, adventure beneath boiling seas struggle against uncontrolled substances and a race to the death by freedom fighters protecting your right to surf and the American way.

[01:03:14] It’s twice the fun of one. Surf 2.

[01:03:18] Paul Scheer: You can stream Surf 2 for free on YouTube, Prime or Roku with a subscription membership, or check it out over at the Vinegar Syndrome. Oh, I love the Vinegar syndrome. They’re re-releasing Dirty Work, a new dirtier cut. In addition, I also encourage you to check out Hoopla, Canopy, and Libby, which are digital media services offered by your local public library that allow you to consume movies, tv, music, audiobooks, eBooks, and comics for free.

[01:03:42] That is it for Last Looks. If you listen to us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please take a moment, rate us, review us. It helps, and make sure that you are following us and have automatic downloads turned on. That really helps the show have automatic downloads turned on, and you can always visit us on social media @HDTGM.

[01:04:00] A big thank you to our producer, Scott Sonne Molly Reynolds, and our movie picking Producer Avaryll Halley, our associate producer Jess Cisneros, and our engineer Casey Holford. We’ll see you next week for Surf 2.