EP. 311 — Wild Mountain Thyme

Paul Scheer [00:00:00] He be a honey bee and she be a swan. And they must fall in love. That’s right. We saw Wild Mountain Thyme. So you know what that frickin means? 

Intro Song [00:00:30] [Intro Song] 

Paul Scheer [00:00:31] Hello, people of Earth and welcome to How Did This Get Made? I’m here with Tall John Scheer, a.k.a. Paul Scheer, and today we are talking about Wild Mountain Thyme. Oh, my gosh, if you like Banshees. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:00:43] Paul I thought you said you were going to do the accent for the whole episode. 

Paul Scheer [00:00:45] Should I? I might. I might do–. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:00:47] Right before we started, you said, “Watch this.” And then I thought it was just going to be the whole ep. 

Paul Scheer [00:00:52] Well, I was going to say, if you like Banshees of a Inisherin, stick with that one, because this movie, this is one of those really odd films. I’ll try to describe it. It is about two families of farmers that have star crossed lovers. How? Jeez, I don’t even know how to fucking describe,. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:01:12] By the way, good luck. 

Paul Scheer [00:01:13] Yeah, I don’t know. 

June Diane Raphael [00:01:14] That’s the thing. So I don’t think that’s what it’s about, really. Because I wouldn’t say they’re star crossed, you know, to be star crossed. You have to have both lovers want to be with each other.  

Paul Scheer [00:01:38] That’s a good point. 

June Diane Raphael [00:01:39] You have to have both of them want to be with each other. And because of what’s happening, they can’t get to each other. And that’s not really what this movie is about. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:01:54] June, are you forgetting there are two gates between them? There are two gates between them. This is a movie where in true love is separated by two gates. Everybody is obsessed with it. 

Paul Scheer [00:02:09] And a lot of anxiety because I want to go back to what you said, June. 

June Diane Raphael [00:02:12] Yes. The gates of the mind. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:02:14] Oh, the gates of the mind. 

Paul Scheer [00:02:18] I believe that Jamie Dornan and Emily Blunt both are in love with each other, but they’re not allowing– well, at least Jamie Dornan is not allowing himself to admit it. That’s why I’m going to go back to star crossed lovers. His anxiety is his hurdle and maybe his fact that, well, there’s a lot. I mean, again, yeah. 

June Diane Raphael [00:02:39] You guys, we gotta back all the way up. 

Paul Scheer [00:02:40] I know, I know. But let me say this. We can agree that they are farmers. They share a piece of land. It’s kind of like Hatfields and McCoys. Christopher Walken is Jamie Dornan’s dad. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:02:52] We got to talk about Chris Walken. We got to talk about Walken’s Irish accent. We got to talk about everybody’s Irish accent. We got to talk about– I thought for a good portion of the movie that the reveal was going to be that they were siblings and that the parents were trying to keep them apart because they were secretly siblings, because Christopher Walken seemed to be in love with Emily Blunt’s mother or no? 

Paul Scheer [00:03:24] I thought that was his wife. 

June Diane Raphael [00:03:25] His wife? Paul. 

Paul Scheer [00:03:27] Well, because she was reprimanding him like a wife. 

June Diane Raphael [00:03:30] Yeah, but that’s just Irish, babe. That’s Irish stuff. You got to get into that. That’s Irish and what the Irish are. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:03:38] So you get into the Irish. 

Paul Scheer [00:03:41] Well, look, as an Irish person, I, you know, there’s a lot of things here that I missed. I think that the movie was set off on the wrong foot simply by Christopher Walken’s opening line. 

Movie Audio [00:03:51] Welcome. Welcome to Ireland. My name’s Tony Reilly. I’m dead. They say if an Irish man dies, while he’s telling a story. You can rest assured he’ll be back. 

Paul Scheer [00:04:06] That kind of set the tone for what we were in store for. It’s being narrated by a ghost with a terrible Irish accent. And that kind of sets the uneasiness in which I watched every scene and was not quite sure what to expect. 

June Diane Raphael [00:04:22] I am going to say something or, you guys, I thought for so long, this movie takes place in the current day. The movie is 1947. 

Paul Scheer [00:04:35] 1950. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:04:38]  Yes. Yes. Yes. 

June Diane Raphael [00:04:40] Okay. When I realize and Jon Hamm shows up and–

Jason Mantzoukas [00:04:44] For me it was when she said, I’ll freeze my eggs. And I was like, whoa, wait a minute. Can she do that? 

June Diane Raphael [00:04:51] I haven’t seen a cell phone. I haven’t seen– now, I know they’re on a farm, but they’re eating stew. I haven’t seen any semblance of, like, modern amenities. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:05:01] None. 

Paul Scheer [00:05:02] They don’t even act like their cell phone is, like, near to them. And this is a giant insult to Ireland.

Jason Mantzoukas [00:05:11] There isn’t a tractor in sight. There’s no industrial farm equipment. They’re riding horses to and from events. It doesn’t feel like this movie is in modern times. 

June Diane Raphael [00:05:23] Yes. The most advanced piece of technology they have on these two farms is the metal detector, which even seeing that, I was like, oh, wow, that’s I was surprised they had that during this time. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:05:34] They seem, you know, stymied. They seem stymied by a Guinness that you can have at home. 

Paul Scheer [00:05:40] Oh, and by the way, who in Ireland is drinking bottled Guinness? First of all, they even comment on drinking bottled Guinness. It feels to me like they didn’t get the can and like, oh, it’s okay to drink the bottle. And then they pour like they share Guinness in like a whiskey glass? Like, I don’t even know. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:06:04] Can I ask you a question? Because this is a John Patrick Shanley production. 

Paul Scheer [00:06:08] Yes. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:06:09] Right. Written and directed by John Patrick Shanley. Who is a famous playwright. He did Moonstruck and Joe versus the Volcano and Doubt and a movie that we’ve done before. I believe January Man is a John Patrick Shanley. 

Paul Scheer [00:06:23] John Patrick Shanley is behind a lot of big Hollywood films. And I would say that he either hits a home run out of the park, or he hits a home run into the foul area. Like they’re going hard. They’re never not trying. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:06:37] Is this a play? 

June Diane Raphael [00:06:39] It was a play. It was a play which makes a lot more sense to me. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:06:42] That makes a little more sense to me that just kind of sitting around at the table just long because I kept being like, why is this scene still going? Like, why is this still happening? The scene, the meat of this scene is now done. Let’s move on. You know? 

June Diane Raphael [00:07:02] There were moments. There were moments and it was so hard– I watched it with the subtitles on because I couldn’t understand what was happening. The accents were so heavy and wrong. And I think it was also like, had the accents been right, I wouldn’t have needed subtitles. Like, I needed subtitles because they were such big swings in like, a lucky charm direction that I could not understand. 

Paul Scheer [00:07:27] Everyone’s doing this slightly different one. 

June Diane Raphael [00:07:29] There were moments where I’m like, Oh, some of the writing is beautiful. Like, there are moments I wanted to hear this monologue about Christopher Walken’s wife and how he wasn’t in love with her. 

Paul Scheer [00:07:43] Is that the moment where he goes, “I’m going to die now.”

June Diane Raphael [00:07:48] Yes. 

Paul Scheer [00:07:48] He just calls it.

June Diane Raphael [00:07:51] Yes. You do that in a play and it can land. And so there were themes where I was like, oh, mental illness being sort of paralyzed and not having any movement in your life and being in love with a neighbor who’s mentally ill and committing your life to this hellscape, which is interesting in a play. Wow. As a film, it didn’t work. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:08:21] There’s also a thing where for me, I am also, I suspect I would be willing to suspend disbelief more in a play to watch two 40 year olds struggle to live next door to each other and be in love in modern times and be unable to confront, speak, to elicit any kind of an emotional response or an adult conversation between them. It seems to me that Jamie Dornan and and Emily Blunt’s characters were written as 20 year olds. 

Paul Scheer [00:08:57] Yes. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:08:57] Like it when Jon Hamm kisses Emily Blunt. It felt like she’d never literally been kissed. I wrote in my notes, “Are they both virgins at 40 years old?” She asks him if he’s a virgin. And not only are they both unable to speak to it, they both are acting like they’re teenagers in a way that I was like, I don’t know. 

Paul Scheer [00:09:17] But then Jamie Dornan goes home. He goes home with that girl pretty willy– like pretty easily. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:24] He doesn’t go home with her. They go to the cemetery and she falls off a wall. 

Paul Scheer [00:09:27] Well, I mean, but I think the idea was if she didn’t fall off the wall, like, I felt like that’s where it was trying to go. And then she did, like Humpty Dumpty, fell off the wall. But don’t you think that that was a flirtation? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:09:41] He just looked casually and went, “Yikes.” 

June Diane Raphael [00:09:45] Is she okay? Because you guys, she shows up in that last pub scene when all the ancestors come back to celebrate these nuptials. She’s there. Which made me think, like, did she die off that wall? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:10:00] Oh wow. Wouldn’t it be great if everybody in the movie is a ghost except for the two of them and Hamm? 

Paul Scheer [00:10:07] Well, let’s go back a little bit. And I want to address one thing first. When we talk about the accents being all willy nilly. Can we just address the fact that Jamie Dornan is from Belfast? That’s where he grew up. 

June Diane Raphael [00:10:23] I didn’t have a problem with his accent. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:10:24] I would have been fine with him for the most part. You know, same with her mother I thought was terrific. And like the guy, the crazy guy that they all hate. 

June Diane Raphael [00:10:35] There are clearly some Irish people in this movie who are a couple of like, Yes, tried and true, you know, but then there are the other accents and Christopher Walken. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:10:45] And that was one of the most iconic cadences in the business. He’s throwing a brogue on like, I will keep– 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:11:06] We need to get Kevin Pollock in here. We need to get Pollock in here to do an Irish Christopher Walken. It was so immediately. Because as Christopher Walken enters the movie in voiceover as the narrator. 

Paul Scheer [00:11:20] The ghostly narrator. 

June Diane Raphael [00:11:23] Yeah. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:11:23] I wrote down, “Is that an Irish accent, Christopher Walken?” It was so jarring. 

Paul Scheer [00:11:29] So weird. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:11:30] And again, it’s another one of those things that maybe you would forgive a bad accent in a play. Or maybe you would forgive competing, competing Irish accents. These people are all supposed to be from the same small town in Ireland. They should all sound exactly the same. 

June Diane Raphael [00:11:45] Generations of people living in this town. 

Paul Scheer [00:11:47] I mean, also, Walken doesn’t read to me as Irish farmer. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:11:53] Oh, no? He makes more sense in the Fatboy Slim video. What is happening? 

Paul Scheer [00:11:59] That’s like, if you look at him, you could be like and look and maybe– I think he’s a great actor, but when he’s sitting in that chair, in those suspenders and that white shirt, I’m like, you haven’t worked a day in your life either. I will tell you, the character I was most excited about in this entire movie is Jon Hamm, because when he came in not doing an accent, I was relieved.

Jason Mantzoukas [00:12:18] Oh, because you were like, Thank God there’s an American here. 

Paul Scheer [00:12:21] I was relieved. And also I found him to be truly the lightest. I was like, Oh, I like his, like just energy. 

June Diane Raphael [00:12:29] I felt at ease when he was on screen. I was like, oh I can rest. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:12:32] Hamm’s presence really helped ground the movie in a “when” in a “when” like the rest of the movie feels like it’s supposed to be like an Irish folktale or something like it’s the Secret of Roan Inish. By the way, great movie. 

Paul Scheer [00:12:51] But what is the secret, what is the fairy tale? That’s the thing I can’t quite figure out because it has a fairy tale energy. But what is the fairy tale? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:13:03] But here’s the thing, like, I should have loved this movie. This is a fastball straight down the middle for me. A love story like will they won’t be fated to be together? True love from childhood. This is the kind of stuff I love. But this was, they have too much opportunity. Neither of them is in love with someone else. Neither of them is betrothed to someone else. Neither of them has circumstances that mean they have to be apart. Neither. That’s because I kept being like, Oh, they’re in love. But the reveal is going to be that they’re siblings and they didn’t know it. 

Paul Scheer [00:13:38] And their parents aren’t keeping them apart. That’s the other thing. And that’s what was so odd about it. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:13:44] Is this a story about love or land? 

Paul Scheer [00:13:48] It didn’t even seem like the land played a part. 

June Diane Raphael [00:13:50] Great question. I mean, here’s the thing.

Paul Scheer [00:13:54] Why did Christopher Walken want to give him the land? 

June Diane Raphael [00:13:56] Why did he want to or why did he not want to? 

Paul Scheer [00:13:59] Why did he not want to? 

June Diane Raphael [00:14:02] Because he thought he was insane. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:14:06] He seemed to be saying he’s not going to get married. He’s insane. 

June Diane Raphael [00:14:08] And also Christopher Walken thinks that there’s rumors that he’s talking to donkeys and we see him talking to himself on the boat. He thinks he’s also just not there and that he won’t have that that his, you know, his family name will end there with him. And I think he has good reason. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:14:30] It’s really hard. He does. But here’s what I think. I think he does and he doesn’t, because Jamie Dornan, yes, is exhibiting some behavior that is, I don’t know, a little odd, odd, but otherwise otherwise, he seems absolutely capable. 

June Diane Raphael [00:14:48] He seems to be taking care of the land, for sure. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:14:51] Doing the entire job. Like, he’s not fucking off. He’s not like, “I haven’t seen him in days. He doesn’t do a good job.”. 

Paul Scheer [00:14:59] But Tony– Christopher Walken– is nervous that Anthony might kill himself because he had an uncle who killed himself. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:15:09] Wait, what? 

Paul Scheer [00:15:10] There is a line in that big room scene where they kind of allude to, “He’s off. I don’t want to give it to him because of that.”

Movie Audio [00:15:17] To ignore the farm comes to me. 

Movie Audio [00:15:19] I don’t see a clear path. 

Movie Audio [00:15:21] From where to where? 

Movie Audio [00:15:22] From me to you. 

Movie Audio [00:15:22] Stop. 

Movie Audio [00:15:24] It has to be said. You’re more Kelly than Riley. 

Movie Audio [00:15:28] It’s true. You’re a Kelly in the face. 

Movie Audio [00:15:30] In my face? 

Movie Audio [00:15:31] He likes the fish. That’s the Kelly’s as well. John Kelly thought he was a fish. 

Movie Audio [00:15:38] My name is Riley. I am a Riley. 

Movie Audio [00:15:40] No, you’re a Kelly. You take after John Kelly, and that man was mad as the full moon drowned himself. 

Paul Scheer [00:15:47] That line is kind of glossed over. It’s not like I need to help my son. It’s simply like I need to protect the farm. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:15:53] That’s what I couldn’t figure out, because that’s also what made me try and figure out. Wait a minute. Is Jamie Dory not his son? And that’s why he’s not giving him the land or that he’s trying to prevent some secret from being revealed. And then at the end, he’s just like, you know what, Jon Hamm, I can’t give you the land. I got to give it to my son. And I was like, then why have we been hemming and hawing this whole movie that you’re not giving it to him? 

June Diane Raphael [00:16:18] Well, all of this stuff, I could have forgiven had I really understood the love story. One of the first scenes where she’s got her horse and he’s walking by and then he says something about the fields are green and they’re going to stay green or whatever, he said. And then he walks away. He’s like, “I got to go.” And she repeats that line, looking out after him. I laughed hysterically because I thought, Oh, I thought she was making fun of him. For good reason. 

Paul Scheer [00:16:56] Me too. 

June Diane Raphael [00:16:58] It was. There’s no. There was no. Now, I thought they played the scene beautifully when they got together at the end in her forcing him to open up and love her. And I did. I loved that. But when he says I think I’m a bee, you know, that doesn’t roll trippingly off the tongue. And I believed him. Now, looking back, though, at the other scenes in the movie, when he’s on the boat flailing about with the oar and also screaming things, did he think he was being in those moments? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:17:34] Yeah. And remember, when he’s a little boy, he’s smelling the flower and the Fiona girl says, “So that is also a bee.”

June Diane Raphael [00:17:41] Standing and having conversations. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:17:44] I’m not sure. But did you guys feel like the whole movie Jamie Dornan was sitting on a secret? An unexplained secret. This honey bee reveal. Not only didn’t answer any questions I had, but I didn’t know I was supposed to be waiting for this delivery of information. It felt like the movie was all hinged on this incredibly potent reveal that he was going to tell her his big secret, and she’s going to elicit it out of him. And then they could be together or not or whatever. And he said it and I was like, wait, have I been supposed to be tracking that he thinks he’s a bee? What’s going on? 

Paul Scheer [00:18:29] Let’s take a listen. 

Movie Audio [00:18:29] Time is running out. Now you tell me your secret, Anthony. 

Movie Audio [00:18:33] I told Fiona and she ran like Satan. I’m off kilter. It doesn’t matter how. 

Movie Audio [00:18:38] Is it because you people? 

Movie Audio [00:18:40] No, I don’t hate no one. 

Movie Audio [00:18:42] You can’t shock me. I have thought of everything. I’ve made my peace with it. 

Movie Audio [00:18:48] Okay. I believe that I am a honey bee. 

Movie Audio [00:18:56] Say that again? 

Movie Audio [00:18:58] I believe that I’m a honey bee. 

Movie Audio [00:19:02] I’ll get the car. I don’t believe it. You don’t think you’re a honey bee. You’re having me on. You do? How long? 

Movie Audio [00:19:10] I don’t know. I think that I’m a honey bee. I always have. 

Movie Audio [00:19:13] You are Anthony Riley. 

Movie Audio [00:19:14] Whatever I am, God knows me. 

Movie Audio [00:19:17] Is this why you never told me I was beautiful? 

Movie Audio [00:19:19] Well, that and the nearness of your farm to mine. And it’s true bees don’t like to smoke. Let me drive. 

Movie Audio [00:19:24] No. 

Movie Audio [00:19:25] Slow down. 

Movie Audio [00:19:25] I don’t care if you think you’re a bee, Anthony. I mean, do you think you’re a bee. You think you’re a bee. 

Paul Scheer [00:19:32] There is something weird about that because, and this is what I’m all for. Give me the fairy tale. But does he feel like a bee or is he a bee? And I want to understand that because if he feels like a bee, what does that even mean? And if he is actually bee. 

June Diane Raphael [00:19:56] He could hurt people. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:19:58] He says, and I quote, “I believe that I’m a honeybee. I believe that I’m a honeybee.”. 

Paul Scheer [00:20:05] So if you are a bee and you sting somebody like if you kiss somebody as a bee, that’s what I’ll say. If you sting somebody as a bee, don’t you die? Don’t bees die when they sting you? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:20:16] Yes. Yes, they do. After they sting you. 

Paul Scheer [00:20:18] So maybe he believes I am like a honey bee when I want to kiss you. I will. I will fall apart. I will die. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:20:27] I don’t know. I don’t know. Because when he’s a little kid, he’s running around sticking his nose in flowers like a bee. So I think he’s like– 

Paul Scheer [00:20:35] He’s actually a real bee? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:20:37] I think he thinks he’s a real bee. One of the central failings inside this movie is that I believe it’s supposed to succeed in a magical realism way. Like in a Irish folktale way. Again, I will point to the John Sayles movie, The Secret of Roan Inish, which is fantastic that I feel like treats material that is like this much better in its kind of fairy tale, folktale kind of telling. I believe there’s supposed to be some sort of like folktale element to this that we buy into that we, we allow for him to think he’s a bee or we allow for him, these people, to be connected to nature and animals and represent all of this stuff. But this movie is not doing it successfully, even remotely. So much so that when he said he was a honeybee at the end, I was like, What? That is news to me and it makes no sense. So unless he literally turns into a bee and flies away right now, I wish he hadn’t said that. 

June Diane Raphael [00:21:36] Well, at one point there is that shot. There was that big sort of expansive shot where she was running out of the house and– 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:21:44] Yes, and then flies away to America. 

June Diane Raphael [00:21:46] I thought she was flying. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:21:48] That’s what I thought too. Yeah, that’s what it is. 

Paul Scheer [00:21:51] That’s what it looks like. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:21:52] She runs out of the house. She dances when she’s doing her swan dance. That’s what I’m saying about magical realism. The movie wants to have it, but doesn’t. So she’s dancing in front of the house. Swan Lake is playing in the background. Then she runs and takes off. The character’s point of view takes off as a drone shot and she flies over the Irish countryside and it segways into an airplane flying over the Atlantic to New York City. 

Paul Scheer [00:22:17] I don’t often do this because I think it takes away from what we do here. But I will describe to you or tell you but I will tell you what John Patrick Shanley said when asked, is he a bee or does he just, you know, is that something dramatic? John Patrick Shanley said, Well, we all believe we’re something we’re not, right? 

June Diane Raphael [00:22:38] Huh. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:22:39] Was there a follow up question? 

Paul Scheer [00:22:42] Nope. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:22:42] John? What do you think you are? I mean, this begs the immediate follow up. 

Paul Scheer [00:22:45] Like and I understand what he’s saying, like, okay, we all view ourselves differently, but that’s a that’s a big one. 

June Diane Raphael [00:22:53] Overall and this is why I did connect to that last scene, because I thought what she was saying, I thought what he was saying was I’m take away– replace I’m a honey bee with the words “I’m mentally ill” because I think that’s what he was trying to say to her. And I think she was saying to him, “And that’s okay.” And we all are on some level. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:23:16] I think you’re right. Well, I think you’re right. But I also think the movie’s wanting to have it both ways. I think he’s also saying, I think I’m a honeybee. I don’t think he’s just saying that as a stand in for mental illness. I do think the movie wants you to believe he thinks he’s a honeybee, if that makes sense. 

June Diane Raphael [00:23:39] It does not. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:23:44] Unsuccessfully. 

Paul Scheer [00:23:48] If I think, going back to my great example, like that he views himself as a widower. Like he has to run this plot of land. He can’t fall in love. Like he’s had his time. It’s, you know, there’s something I can understand, but like what is it? A honeybee is even a hard thing to wrap your head around in the idea of like, what does it even represent? Like, what does a honeybee represent? I don’t know. I mean, what is a honeybee’s personality? I mean, I saw the Bee Movie and it didn’t help. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:24:17] Oh, brother.  

June Diane Raphael [00:24:19] Oh, yeah. I don’t think it’s there. I think if we try to explore the swans and the bees like we’re gonna– and the horse is like, we’re going to come up short because I don’t think that the movie itself knows. 

Paul Scheer [00:24:35] Oh guys, here we go. Male honeybees hang around the hive and they’re eager to take on certain jobs other than their comrades. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:24:47] They’re like worker bees. 

June Diane Raphael [00:24:48] Queen in the beginning of the movie. 

Paul Scheer [00:24:50] And here’s the other part of it. Their only role is to mate with a maiden queen. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:24:56] And be workers, right? Cause they are the workers. So is the whole thing like she’s the queen bee and he’s the worker bee? Okay. By the way, okay. But then why make her also a swan? Why make the wild horse at all a thing? Why make all of these animals? The movie is chock full of animals. The dog, the goats or the lambs. There’s so many animals that I genuinely started to be like, I don’t know what story you’re telling me. Like, watch the Secret of Kells or Wolfwalkers like these again, these animated Irish stories that are so steeped in Irish folklore and mythology. Like, why not? Why not use some of that? Like, it’s like hubris I feel like to be like, no, no, I’ll tell an Irish story. 

Paul Scheer [00:25:50] And also if she’s a swan, and the whole story of the white swan is about transformation. She doesn’t transform, but I guess she rubs her swan off on his bee because she’s transforming him. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:26:05] Paul. Paul. That’s filthy. 

June Diane Raphael [00:26:06] That’s really disgusting. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:26:07] She rubs her swan off on his bee? Jesus Christ. 

Paul Scheer [00:26:10] Just trying to understand here. Because I am trying to understand what these characters are, what the apex is. What Like what are like what? I don’t know. 

June Diane Raphael [00:26:22] Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know. 

Paul Scheer [00:26:23] But by the way, it does make sense why he was drinking an orange blossom drink and not a Guinness at the bar because a bee would be attracted to like an– 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:26:30] Oh, yeah, yeah, you’re right. It’s a flower. 

Paul Scheer [00:26:33] But then doesn’t tell that woman that he’s got, like a tiny brain or what does he tell that woman? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:26:38] Yeah. What was that? Did he whispered to her that he’s a bee? 

June Diane Raphael [00:26:41] I wonder if he did. Actually, now that I’m looking back on it. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:26:44] I think he did. 

June Diane Raphael [00:26:46] She said I slept with a priest and he says, I have a tinyness in my brain right here. 

Movie Audio [00:26:51] I have a tiny, tinyness in my brain. 

Paul Scheer [00:27:00]  Then they kiss. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:06] What are you talking about? That’s it? I have a tiny, tinyness in my brain. That is not helpful. 

June Diane Raphael [00:27:17] Why does Jon Hamm need him to find him a wife? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:20] Who knows? Because that’s the other thing. I thought Jon Hamm was trying to pull a fast one and still get the land, because again, I thought a lot of this movie was about land in Ireland. I was like, Jon Hamm, how many acres? What is the lake? 

June Diane Raphael [00:27:36] Here’s my question. I thought maybe the reason why he wanted to get married was because that was really important to his uncle, that the land get passed along. Have children then it stays in the family. 

Paul Scheer [00:27:47] But if he marries her, he gets both pieces of land.  

Jason Mantzoukas [00:27:51] That’s what I thought he was trying to do. I thought Hamm was trying to marry Emily Blunt so that he could have potentially both plots of land, thus erasing the true blight of the two gates. Can salvage what this. Which is what this movie is really about. 

June Diane Raphael [00:28:07] I wish I could understand. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:28:10] I mean, you watched them pass through them a number of times. So basically, basically, I mean, this is doesn’t really matter. But at some point, Christopher Walken has that monologue about how he initially didn’t love his wife and then he was struck dumb with love for her and he sold a strip of land between their two properties, providing a piece of land between– he sold a piece of the land that he owned to the neighbor who is Emily Blunt’s father, which meant that a strip of land bisected their two properties. 

June Diane Raphael [00:28:43] Like, I still don’t understand who owns the land between the two gates. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:28:47] Emily Blunt does. Emily blunt herself does 

June Diane Raphael [00:28:50] And why not just have one gate? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:28:52] Because you have to pass through one of their land into like–

June Diane Raphael [00:28:57] Like a middle spot? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:28:59] Like a DMZ. And then you have to enter the other person’s land. So you’re exiting and entering. 

June Diane Raphael [00:29:06] And you can just go around those gates? 

Paul Scheer [00:29:09] Not in Ireland. I mean, it’s too large. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:29:11] Like, this is Ireland. I don’t know. 

Paul Scheer [00:29:13] I mean, by the way, just you guys know, this movie does take place in Ireland. I know it’s very subtle that pan flutes pretty much score every moment. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:29:24] The music is aggressive. 

Paul Scheer [00:29:26] How many more fucking landscape scenes do we got to see? I get it.

June Diane Raphael [00:29:32] The green fields are aggressive, the pub is aggressive, the Guinness is aggressive, the accents are aggressive. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:29:39] Music is also trying to tell me that this is a movie that I don’t think I’m watching. The music is. The music feels like it’s from Willow or the music feels like it’s from– like it doesn’t feel like it’s from a contemporary rom com, which is, I believe what this is. 

Paul Scheer [00:29:58] So let me just say one other thing here. Can I just say one thing that just may blow your mind? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:02] Not a rom com, but a- 

June Diane Raphael [00:30:04] It’s neither a rom nor a com.

Paul Scheer [00:30:06] No, it’s sort of a–. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:08] What is it? 

Paul Scheer [00:30:08]  It’s a moment. It’s a moment. It’s a cup of tea. 

June Diane Raphael [00:30:12] It’s a vibe, I guess. 

Paul Scheer [00:30:13] It’s a vibe. Here’s what I’ll say. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:15] Oh God, it’s a vibe. 

Paul Scheer [00:30:16] Can I just ask you a question? Very quickly. When I say Silicon Valley, what does that bring up to you? Is Silicon Valley just roughly like what? Like what goes on in Silicon Valley? 

June Diane Raphael [00:30:26] Tech startup. Tech. 

Paul Scheer [00:30:29] Yeah, right. Okay, great. That’s all I need to know. So would it surprise you that Ireland is the Silicon Valley of Europe? This movie takes place in 2019 and there is not any like they’ve pushed them backwards into like Ireland is–. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:48] It feels like it’s from the 1800s. 

June Diane Raphael [00:30:49] Wait, this movie takes place in 2019. 

Paul Scheer [00:30:51] Yes. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:30:51] Yes. Nobody uses a cell phone. 

June Diane Raphael [00:30:56] There’s a radio. 

Paul Scheer [00:31:00] The Silicon Valley of Europe, and these people are so disconnected that when they see a fancy car, they should have been shocked at the airport. Honestly, “Oh my God, what’s this flying crow?!”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:31:12] But here’s the crazy thing that Rolls Royce is not a like 2019 Rolls-Royce. That is in and of itself a model of car that anybody who’s seen a magazine would have seen a picture of it. They were acting as if it was the– movie is pretending as if everybody in it time traveled from 80 years ago to 2019. 

June Diane Raphael [00:31:36] I wonder, I would love to have a real Irish person on this podcast. 

Paul Scheer [00:31:41] Oh they hate it. No, they’ve ripped it apart. I have saved some of that reaction for the end. The Irish hate this movie for many, many reasons. And John Patrick Shanley said, “You can never impress. You can never impress the Irish. They’re always going to have a problem.” That was his response to that. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:32:00] This movie feels as though it’s like the Irish are all magical, old-timey creatures, like they don’t exist in modernity. 

Paul Scheer [00:32:06] When she puts on that wedding dress, when she puts on that wedding dress, it looks like something from the 1920s rather than probably the 1970s, 1980s, when her mom probably did get married. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:32:20] For example, when she goes to New York for one day, she flies to New York for one day to see the ballet. She’s wearing modern clothes and looks great. What? So she has these clothes. I understand why she, of course, doesn’t wear them on the farm. But why when she’s on the farm, does she act like the world of these clothes doesn’t exist? 

Paul Scheer [00:32:43] I just pulled up a picture of an Irish farmer, a modern day Irish farmer. 

June Diane Raphael [00:32:50] Interesting. He’s got a watch on. He’s got a fleece vest. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:32:53] Jamie Dornan is also too much of a hunk, I’m afraid. 

June Diane Raphael [00:32:58] I’m afraid of the same thing. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:33:01] He’s so beautiful. Both he and Emily Blunt are both so beautiful and so much so adult that I did not understand, nor did it make any sense that they didn’t know that they were supposed to be kissing. 

June Diane Raphael [00:33:13] I know. I know. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:33:18] Like no, if these two beautiful people are living next door to each other for 40 years. And they don’t know they’re supposed to be making out? No, I don’t buy it. 

Paul Scheer [00:33:28] They’ve never seen the movie or seen a TV show. They don’t know. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:33:31] I guess. I guess that’s it. I mean, when Jon Hamm kisses Emily Blunt in in New York, she’s like, “Oh, no, now why’d you go and do that?” Like what? As if that’s like– mustn’t she want to kiss? This movie exists in a world in which these 40 year olds have never been horny? What’s going on? 

June Diane Raphael [00:33:55] Well, I don’t know. I mean, I do think that it’s so– In Ireland, what’s interesting is that it is so damp and cold that I think it’s hard to get, you know, a vibe going. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:10] You think it’s hard to get– oh, boy. The Irish listeners. 

June Diane Raphael [00:34:13] I know they’re going to be upset. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:16] Do you get horny in Ireland? That’s what we want to know. 

June Diane Raphael [00:34:19] I’m just going to say, it did not like there’s any central heating in any of those homes. Okay. People looked cold people did not take off like outdoor layers when they walked inside. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:28] They are also happy to be in the rain. They stand in the rain all the time.

June Diane Raphael [00:34:33] How horny could you possibly be if you’re wet and your feet are damp? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:34:38] I think you could still get pretty horny. 

Paul Scheer [00:34:39] I mean, here’s the thing. He’s horny enough not to to be aggressively offended when called gay. He was like, “WHAT?!” s. 

June Diane Raphael [00:34:51] He jumped up. 

Paul Scheer [00:34:51] Jumped. The most energy I’ve seen from this man was to question his masculinity, which is never on display at any other point, except for that which made me go, does he protest too much? Because now is that part of it? Because I mean, again, if it’s 2019, maybe we’re a little bit more open. Maybe, you know, we don’t make these people, again, are acting out this. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:35:15] That’s what I felt like. I didn’t understand whose movie this was. I didn’t understand who felt how about whom? Like none of it. Like the idea is this olden days, is this modern times? I kept writing things like, are the book characters young? Or the play, I guess, is what it was. Like, Is this a land story or a love story? And then I just wrote Jon Hamm is here. 

Paul Scheer [00:35:40] By the way, jon Hamm. Like, what does Jon Hamm find appealing about Emily Blunt? Because it doesn’t seem like they are connecting. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:35:49] I felt like he was a villian. I thought he was going to be a villain. 

Paul Scheer [00:35:52] Jon Hamm is so easy with her that I’m like, oh, I guess he does find her charming, but she’s not giving him anything charming to connect to. But he’s like, He’s working it so smooth that I was like, okay, I’ll buy it. Although there’s nothing on the page.

June Diane Raphael [00:36:08] I was just happy he was there. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:36:09] Yes, thrilled. But there was so little between them that I felt like– again, I’m just filling in the blanks for the movie because I was like, What? What’s what’s the purpose of Jon Hamm’s cousin, if not to be the craven, American land obsessed cash grab? I’m here to get the land. “I’m here to take the money. Ha ha ha.” I was like, okay, so he’s our villain. So if he’s not going to inherit this land, he’s going to marry Emily Blunt and take her land. He wants to be a landowner and whatever that’s got to be it, right? But no, he just falls in love with the woman on the plane, and that’s how he gets his love story, too. So I was like, is this all about love stories? Is everybody here like, in love? And that’s what the movie’s been about? 

June Diane Raphael [00:36:56] I do think that with different types, this would be a different movie. Like if these were two people who were a little bit older and a little– and actually much less attractive, I think it would make more sense. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:37:13] Well, I would only disagree in the sense that I think less attractive and younger would make sense to me. It would make more sense to me if they were in the period of life where you either choose to settle down or you don’t. 

June Diane Raphael [00:37:28] I don’t think you can be young in Ireland. I think. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:37:34] But that’s my point. I think even if you were– even if you got two 24 year olds who are Irish, they would still look like 46 year old farmers. You know, like they get people that look like they’re like they’re working this land. 

June Diane Raphael [00:37:49] And because everybody’s talking about leaving Ireland. And it seems to be like the thing. Like all the young people leave. At one point I did think, like, maybe there’s not a lot of other people their age, which did explain to me why they could be so cut off from other people. 

Paul Scheer [00:38:07] Because the gates. The gates are complicated to get through. So if you were a young person, no young person is going to go through two gates. I mean, that’s just a fact. I mean, and that’s social media. That’s, you know, that’s tiktok. That’s all that stuff. 

June Diane Raphael [00:38:21] How far is it to get to Dublin and and go out for a night on the town? 

Paul Scheer [00:38:26] By the way they get to that airport without a problem. They’re in and out. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:38:29] Let me put it to you this way. The events of this movie take place during the exact same period of time that we are alive and the leads are essentially your age. They seem to have never seen any of the movies or TV shows that you’ve seen. They haven’t seen Ferris Bueller’s Day Off or Home Alone. They haven’t seen When Harry Met Sally. They have no frame of reference for modernity. Like they would much rather talk about, like the crows and the storms. 

Paul Scheer [00:39:10] I want to go back to this opening. Doesn’t Jamie Dornan in the first scene say, “Mother Nature, why did you make me this way?” Or something like?  

June Diane Raphael [00:39:22] “Why am I so?” Yeah. Or something like that. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:39:25] That’s during the Christopher Walken voiceover. That’s when he’s a little boy. He says that when he’s a little boy. 

Paul Scheer [00:39:30] So is he saying that because he knows he’s a bee there? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:39:32] Yes, because that’s basically hiss saying, why have you made– but we don’t know that until the end of the movie. 

Paul Scheer [00:39:38] Right. The context clues is that he’s sniffing pollen. 

June Diane Raphael [00:39:42] I can imagine a world in which this is a play and you are on stage just in the, you know, Muldoony room and the Riley room in the pub. And there’s three sets and then there’s the field. And we never go to New York. 

Paul Scheer [00:40:00] Jon Hamm’s character is only spoken of. He originated this character. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:40:05] Okay. That makes sense. 

June Diane Raphael [00:40:06] So, like, I can see it being a– working much better. 

Paul Scheer [00:40:14] Okay, so I’ve just read about the play. They say in the play, it’s very clear that Anthony hates farming, and that’s why his father doesn’t want to leave it to him. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:40:25] That’s what I couldn’t– he seemed to want to be there. He seemed to want to farm. He seemed to– I mean, he didn’t– it’s not like he was full of joy or anything, but he certainly was– it was conveyed to me through both his performance and what I felt like the film was trying to tell me that he was crestfallen and heartbroken to find out he was not being left the farm. You know, that that was upsetting news to him. 

June Diane Raphael [00:40:51] Here’s a question. Why did Jon Hamm bring him that white coat? 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:40:56] Unclear. I had that question too. 

Paul Scheer [00:40:59] Well, I think it was part of like him trying to say like, “Hey, I’m from a modern world. Take my modern thing.”

June Diane Raphael [00:41:07] A rain coat? 

Paul Scheer [00:41:07] Well, yes, because it’s white. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:41:08] Here’s a nice rain coat. Like a macintosh. 

Paul Scheer [00:41:12]  It’s white. And I think his whole thing was like, “No.”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:41:15] Also, Jamie Dornan opens the raincoat while wearing a raincoat. Like he’s wearing a raincoat and opens what is arguably not– he’s wearing like a slicker. He’s wearing like a rubberized raincoat for the farm. And Hamm gets him like a proper like, you know, about town, like a macintosh, like a nice looking, stylish raincoat that Jamie Dornan immediately starts wearing just on the farm. 

Paul Scheer [00:41:43] But I guess, like, my idea is like, “I am not made for modern times. I can’t wear your modern raincoat. Like even though the world is in 2019. I’m still in the past. Like, I am trapped here.”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:41:54] Give me that. Give me that. Give me a character who’s, like, obsessed with old stuff, who’s like, they made it better when? They I don’t want a modern tractor or a modern irrigation system. It was better when X. Like, give me a character. I don’t know what any single character in this movie wants, period. I don’t know what they want. And as a result, it’s impossible to watch the movie because their wants are all over the place. Christopher Walken doesn’t want to give the farm to his son. Then he does. Christopher Walken didn’t love his wife and then he did. Christopher Walken did love Emily Blunt’s mother, but he also loved his wife. You know, like everybody wants this, but they also want that. I was like, what the fuck is this movie? 

Paul Scheer [00:42:41] Well, look, maybe we just aren’t that smart because obviously we have opinions about this. We have thoughts about it. But there are people out there with a different opinion, a different thought. It is now time for second opinions. 

Second Opinions Song [00:42:57] [Song]

Paul Scheer [00:43:18] So there are a lot of people out there that love Wild Mountain Thyme. The average rating is four out of five. 53% of people. Give this a five star review on Amazon. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:43:33] Wow. 

Paul Scheer [00:43:34] You know, people say things like, “This movie has soul. If you don’t understand the farming life of the U.K., you probably won’t understand this movie. Five stars.” You know, and then there’s somebody who looks at it, maybe like Betsy C., who says, “On one hand, there’s just too many uses of the Lord’s name in vain for me. But there’s also seems to be something repugnant in every movie made nowadays. So you just have to eat the whole sandwich as it is or pass it up. And this is such a moving story and enjoyable. So five stars.” And then many people say you have to watch it over and over again to truly understand what this movie is, you know? You know, there’s stories from S.F. Stone says, “My dad brings this to his church group and it makes people watch it with him.” Sterling C writes, “Who cares about the accent nonsense? Good grief. Who in the world cares? If you watch it for dialect nuances, then you’ve got a bigger issues to deal with. All right. Second, this is a film you really have to watch twice in order to catch all the gem littered dialogue. This is adapted from a play. It is about the dialogue and it is rich. And watching it twice, you better catch the visual references embedded throughout that you missed the first time. Shanley knows how to tell a story and tug at both the heart and the mind, and he’s accomplished that. Heritage. History. The land. Love. And how bittersweet and strange this enterprise called life is. Shanley is never one to shy away from the vicissitudes of life, and this one clearly hits those notes just like the traditional tune it’s named after. Anyway. Can’t go wrong watching this. It’s delightful. Has some tissues ready for the final scene, though, because it will get you if you’ve been paying attention to the story instead of, well, you know. On final word, this film is for a dying breed of folks who recognize that literacy and thoughtfulness still matters. Metaphors, the secrets, for example, are not literal, but figurative of something grander, indications of something else. It used to be called art, but now it seems to conjure up expletives and insults. This film speaks to something bigger about life in a way that’s unique and artful. It’s very much like Joe versus the Volcano meets Pride and Prejudice, the fourth edition. It’s personality and tone. No violence except the crows. No clothing is removed. No nasty behavior is displayed except for the Irish expletives. Using the Lord’s name in vain. The only complaint I have is the sound seemed very low and mushy in the indoor scenes, but that’s it. Five stars. Five stars.”. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:46:17] Holy shit. That’s an incredible final line. Wow. Wow. What an impassioned– “It used to be called art.” That’s amazing. But I do think this could have been better if Deadpool was in it. 

Paul Scheer [00:46:36] Yeah. Why are they trying to hide that one of them is a super hero? I mean, would you recommend it? And this is the question because–. 

June Diane Raphael [00:46:42] No. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:46:43] No. 

Paul Scheer [00:46:44] No. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:46:45] And in its place. I know I’ve brought it up numerous times, but just because it’s such a tiny movie, do yourself a favor and watch The Secret of Roan Inish, the John Sayles movie. Incredible, beautiful, heartbreaking Irish folktale and Secret of Kells and and all those the animation that’s coming out. 

Paul Scheer [00:47:02] I’m gonna say The Banshees of Inishirin is awesome. And like, by the way, it’s so funny. I read a review of that where someone was like, “I love this movie and did not realize it didn’t take place in present day until somebody told me.” Because I do think that people do view Ireland in this way of being very much stuck in the past. But there is this, I think, this beautiful idea of like being stuck in a place, not having places to go. There are similar themes, I think, between those two films, but this was a tough one because I think they added too much. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:47:35] Listen, I didn’t need them to be like, “I got an email, I have a text, I’m listening to a podcast.” Like, I get it. It’s supposed to have like a magical fairy tale folktale kind of vibe to it. I just don’t think this succeeded in transporting me there. 

June Diane Raphael [00:47:49] Yeah, it was a tough watch. It was a tough watch. And I think, you know, it’s hard because there are so many people on screen who are so watchable and so beautiful to look at. But even within that, it was just– you are left just trying to make sense of it and you come up with very little. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:48:08] Yeah. You know, I just was like throughout the movie– that’s the other thing is, like, the movie is really ultimately about will they, won’t they? Jamie Dornan. Emily Blunt. It boils down to is will they, won’t they? And they are given so many opportunities both through proximity and what we as the audience know as they are each interested in the other. So we’re not being told they can’t. We’re not being told they’re apart. We’re not being told one doesn’t believe in the other or one doesn’t love the other. They are both demonstrably in love with each other. They’re constantly together. They’re 40 years old and nobody wants– they’re gorgeous– and nobody’s like, come on, we got to make out. Or I guess this gets back to again. Please, if you’re Irish, let us know. Do you get horny? 

Paul Scheer [00:48:54] We do need to know. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:48:56] Or is it just too damp? 

June Diane Raphael [00:48:58] Yeah. It’s like your bones are cold. Like everything’s cold. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:49:02] If you’re Irish, please contact us if you’ve got them cold, cold bones,. 

Paul Scheer [00:49:06] Cold bones so you can’t get a real bone. That’s it. 

June Diane Raphael [00:49:08] Just imagine your feet are always cold and your feet might be a little wet too. 

Paul Scheer [00:49:14] Not to get too descriptive, but I’m going to say, if your body is that cold, would you really want to, you know–

June Diane Raphael [00:49:20] Take off your clothes. 

Paul Scheer [00:49:20] And put something inside of you, that’s that cold too. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:49:23] That’s how you warm up, that’s how you warm up. What you’re talking about? Now I’m worried about the two of you.

Paul Scheer [00:49:29] It’s way too cold. 

Paul Scheer [00:49:30] Oh, my gosh. I will say that I agree with you across the board. I think everyone is committed. I don’t feel like anything is going badly. It just feels like there are some questions that make, for me anyway, an unsatisfying watch. Maybe I have to go back and watch it three or four times to get as impassioned as these reviewers got. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:49:53] Yeah. 

Paul Scheer [00:49:53] All right. 

June Diane Raphael [00:49:54] And change the sound and just some of those indoor scenes. Sound so mushy. 

Jason Mantzoukas [00:49:58] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 

June Diane Raphael [00:50:03] Oh, gosh. 

Paul Scheer [00:50:05] The show may be over, but it continues next week on Last Looks. That’s right. We want you to join us on Last Looks to tell us all the things that we might have messed up, that we might have gotten wrong. And you get a chance to prove that you are better than us. You can do that very simply by going to our discord at discord.gg/HDTGM. Or you can call me at 619-PAULASK. I also run a very impromptu advice line. So if you have any problems, I am there to solve them. Normally, I’m joined by Jason on Last Looks. So tune in to Last Looks to hear interviews with some of our great past guests, some deleted scenes and so much more, including what we’re watching next week. You know what? If you’re a big How Did This Get Made fan, that means you must have some merch. And if you need our merch, go to teepublic.com/stores/HDTGM. And that’s Teepublic.com. You can find us online everywhere on any kind of social platform @HDTGM. And if you really just want to go old school, check out our website at HDTGM.com. That has links to everything you could possibly imagine. But this show, what you’re listening to right here, couldn’t be done without a couple of things. First of all, you listening. But more importantly, I’m talking about the amazing, producoreal work of Scott Sonne, Molly Reynolds and our movie picking producer, Avril Halley, our engineer Alex Gonzalez, and our publisher, July Diaz. People, they make the trains run and we love them. So we will see you next week for Last Looks. And until then, bye for now.